Why did they accuse us of saying Rove hacked the election from the WH?

[Stephanie]

They kept standing up one by one and claiming that our "conspiracy theory" is that Rove is some computer genius and he hacked the election himself from his WH office. Were they actually quoting some "blogger" or did they just make this one up on the spot?

Also, is there any standard of truth for republicans in Congress, or can they just say whatever they want with no accountability, now that they have eviscerated the ethics rules?

Also, what public office does Michael Moore hold?

[mattclearing]

1. Because many people here suspect that is what happened.

And honestly, who's to say it didn't?

When no one is willing to investigate, your guess is as good as mine.

[Stephanie]

6. I don't think that is true

I have never seen anyone claim that, ever.

[read the law first]

68. It's from the Ohio Supreme Court case

The Ohio Supreme Court case alleges that barely disquised Karl Roe 1-100 did it. Karl Roe = Karl Rove, etc.

We've talked about it a bunch of times here and in fact people were high-fiving over the fact that it was such a clever slap in the face of Bushitler's Brain.

[Merlot]

15. I don't suspect that at all

They are saying that because it sounds SO outrageous, and makes us sound SO silly.

What rove can and probably did do is create an environment where people look the other way as hackers do their work. Did rove do any hands on work to take this election? Doubtful. I'm guesing that he doesn't even know who did what. But he knows that by saying what can be done, the minions will go forth and do it.

[RaulVB]

17. He/She said "MANY" which means not ALL (n/t)

[mattclearing]

25. He, thanks.

And if you have been in this forum a handful of times since election day, this can't be news.

Edit to note: There was an article, forget which publication, but where Rove was quoted as saying, "That doesn't match my numbers" or something from behind a computer.

People here speculated that it was nefarious. Don't recall if I said anything about it, and knowing what I know about computers it seems far fetched, but I can vouch for it having happened here.

[Stephanie]

38. If you mean Rove was looking at his own exit polls when he said that

then I will believe you, but I have never seen anyone at DU claim that Rove actually, himself, manipulated the VOTE from his office, which is what they were accusing us yesterday of claiming.

And I have been here every day since 2001, thank you, so I think I would have seen it.

[mattclearing]

56. Not trying to impugn your motives or flame on you.

I just know people speculated about the possibility. The article is at the bottom of the thread. I'm not sure what was said, it was at least a month ago.

I got the impression people thought he may have been coordinating with operatives on the ground.

I personally think that is possible, but I usually tend to keep an open mind about such things.

Obviously, if somehow people thought Rove had the secret IP address stash of every GEMS tabulator in the country and a way to slyly make adjustments in the totals that wouldn't be totally obviously ridiculous (like Gahanna Precinct 2 for instance), that is highly unlikely.

I haven't been here that long, and my profile bears that out.

Everything you say is accordingly more correct and accurate from now on.

:D

[PaganPreacher]

77. Karl Rove "created an environment?"

Now he is not just "Bush's brain," he is Almighty God.

No wonder John Kerry lost; when Almighty God is against you, you are really and truly screwed.


Karl Rove (aka "Almighty God") issuing orders to election officials in Ohio. Some DUers claim that county officials of both parties are actually Rovian minions.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

[rman]

34. a guess is no ground for accusation

what we don't need to guess about is suspicious discrepencies between exit polls and final results mostly in favor of Bush, very long waiting lines for various reasons mostly in Dem counties, and several other issues.

certainly no Dem congress person or senator in the debate made accusations about Rove in person fixing the elections.

why would repub representatives refer to DU's most far-fetched election fraud scenarios other then to make Dems look like kooks?

[demodonkey]

69. Tell That to Big Dog - 8 years of guess and all they got on him was Monica

nt

[Cheswick2.0]

2. because they can say anythign they want and make it stick

With so few senators and reps joining in to vote with Tubbs-Jones and Boxer, they make our efforts looks tiny and crackpot.

[LisaM]

3. I know, I didn't get that either - I have NEVER heard that

I have heard that he was looking at polling data from the White House - how did they make the leap to saying we are accusing him of physically manipulating the vote? Pure fiction.

[mattclearing]

31. This is what I was referring to.

Didn't a few people speculate something to that effect?

The thread is so buried by now. I wanted to say it was Newsweek or something.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

4. The odd thing is

We didn't say it, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

[grasswire]

5. I wish we could...

....make a transcript of all of their comments. I didn't tape it, so I can't do that. But it would be stunning to see the nuggets of their rants back to back.

[Stephanie]

8. There has to be some official transcript available

I'm sure there is - I'll look for it.

[prodigal_green]

9. it's in the congressional record n/t

[mycatforpresident]

43. Here is some of it:

http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=125183473563+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

more at

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/index.html

[Stephanie]

66. Here's Congressional Record page - but I am not finding a full transcript

Maybe it's just not ready yet? I only get one page per link.

[elehhhhna]

7. Becuase one of them posted that theory here. I saw it I think yesterday.

[Stephanie]

10. So first the repug staffers come here and post it?

And then they hand the speech to their boss to announce it's been said here?

[elehhhhna]

46. NO WAY! They'd never do THAT!

[Junkdrawer]

11. Change that to "Rove AND a handful of computer geniuses" and...

I might bite.

[Greybnk48]

12. Because that's probably what happened

and if they say it's ridiculous then we will, in the future, look ridiculous making those charges even if they're true?

[Not a Sheep]

13. I wondered the same thing when it was said. I never heard that theory. /nt

[Goldeneye]

14. They picked the most far fetched thing they could think of (rove hacking

the vote) and called us conspiracy theorists....because they dont want to admit we have a point. They want us to look Crazy: crazy:

The only argument I heard that was worth while, was why are you contesting ohio when there was fraud elsewhere? And the dems. answered that pretty easily...there were the most problems/complaints in ohio.

Michael Moore is Satan! Thats his political position. Everything vile about the world is easily attributable to michael moore (sarcasm, of course).

[madison2000]

18. Everything not caused by Clinton was inspired by Michael Moore

I still haven't seen Fahrenheit 911 and I've had Reps accuse me of being brainwashed by it!

[mattclearing]

33. That's like the great Republican talking point of the last two years.

:evilgrin:

[madison2000]

16. I think they were saying it to make us look paranoid and ridiculous

-there would have to be a lot of local involvement. But if theres fraud, Rove is involved or it at least has his blessing,

[Last Lemming]

24. Kinda

made them look paranoid and ridiculous. . .
You guys are talking about bloggers and conspiracy theories? We're just here to talk about basic voting rights.

Karl Rove with a modem in the WhiteHouse--that alone made it all worth while. They are so bold--but then they've gotten away with so much

[Verve]

44. Tom Delay actually brought up the X files in referring to the fraud

theories!

Scully and Mulder would have disapproved!:tinfoilhat:

[mdb]

19. Yeah I know.

Looks like they had their speech pre-written expecting, expecting Dems to outline the discrepancies in Ohio. Never happened.

Yesterday, It felt like the Senators during the debate were saying we are PO'd and yelling to the Repubs for reform, (one person was actually screaming and then voted nea) while also saying I'm just upset but please don't hit me anymore and bully me please because I am afraid of you and I know you can whip me because I'm just a wimp.

[RaulVB]

20. You know, it just might be because that's what happened (n/t)

[DELUSIONAL]

21. There was a photo of Rove and others in front of computers

on election night -- in the white house. In a major publication -- the link of this photo was posted on DU shortly after 2 Nov.

It probably happened and evil Delay knows it -- so it is putting the information out there as a preemptive strike.

[Stephanie]

59. you're living up to your name

you can't seriously believe that

[Helga Scow Stern]

75. All I know is what I saw on election night....

The reporter at the White House said, Karl Rove isn't happy with these numbers, so he says he's going to his Batcave to make some calls.

Then the numbers started changing.

Maybe Rove purposefully made those comments so as to suggest a ridiculous scenario?

[DELUSIONAL]

78. Yes I saw this article and THE PHOTO THAT WENT WITH IT

In the Photo -- Karl Rove was sitting in front of a lap top computer -- and a woman (Asian perhaps) was sitting to his left -- she was reaching over handing him something.

Later there was a discussion about where this took place (reported by a BBC reporters -- I believe).

And the reporter in her article reports that Karl Rove was NOT happy with the numbers -- the photograph was taken in "old dining room" of white house.

-- My Speculation STEFFIE (stuffed up -- that's what you name stand for) is that Delay is well aware that those of us on the Internet (Blogs also) were discussing the photo of Rove in front of a computer -- monitoring the incoming election numbers. It would not be out of character for the Rove slime machine to have Delay toss out the misinformation of bush hacking the vote. Rove got around the bushie TANG papers by putting the real papers out but in an altered form (the secretary said that the content of the papers was correct but some sort of alternation took place.) This is Rove's style -- put on the truth but in a deniable form -- so that the real truth can be tossed out.

Steffie -- you are not a very nice person. You are now on my ignore list -- I've enjoyed some of your puffy ponderous pontification but you crossed the line. Good bye.

[Stephanie]

84. Sorry to upset you, but to say Rove hacked the vote personally from the WH

is a lot different from your second post where you say it's probably misinformation. The claim in the debate was that WE were saying that Rove HACKED THE VOTE PERSONALLY FROM THE WH, which is patently ridiculous, and anyone who believes it would be, IMO, delusional.

Here is the quote from the House debate:

Mrs. MILLER of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, the American people must be watching this debate and literally shaking their heads. With all of the challenges facing our Nation we are spending our time debating the challenge to the validity of the Presidential election simply because the Democratic Party cannot accept the fact that their candidate lost this election. They cannot accept the fact that their agenda, that their vision for America has been rejected by the majority of Americans. They cannot accept the fact that President George W. Bush simply received more votes than Senator John Kerry.

This election was very hard fought on both sides. The American people have accepted the fact that it is over and they want this Congress to get to work and to work in a bipartisan way.

If this is a minority party's idea of bipartisanship, then let the people of our Nation see it for what it is. Because in the spirit of bipartisanship, the Democrats are asking us to overturn the Presidential election which President Bush won by over 3 million votes nationwide and by over 118,000 votes in the State of Ohio.

In the spirit of bipartisanship they say that somehow Karl Rove was manipulating votes from a secret computer in the White House and that somehow these secret computers were changing the votes on punch cards and optical scan sheets that record actual votes. This language is in their challenge.

How interesting, however, that their challenge as it talks about conspiracies in the State of Ohio, making allegations that have no basis of fact, their challenge is silent about an incident in Ohio where fraudulent voter registration forms were being submitted and the worker who collected them was paid in crack cocaine.

[buzzard]

22. Because it makes the Dems look foolish in the eyes of the public and this

is the kind of thing that MSM is more likely to report as it is the more sensational charge. They have absolutely no morals when it comes to speaking the truth and the American public at large seems to have a very short attention span and for the most part doesn't seek the truth. Propaganda machines are working well in the USA and most don't see it.

[Last Lemming]

27. Anybody

just in from Mars who witnessed the debate heard some reasoned and passionate discourse from Democrats and some wacko paranoic fantasies on the part of Republicans.

Rope a dope

[Patsy Stone]

23. I said that and posted it as well.

The idea came from a BBC article by Rachel Clarke on election night, mentioning that Rove was in the WH on his laptop and that "Rove used his own numbers to call Ohio for Bush" even though the exit polls disagreed. The article was longer, but that's the gist of it.

I can't help who reads us, and certainly they picked out the crazier things to report (tsunami caused by the * Administration?). It's called "Freedom of Expression," and although they are trying to disembowel the Bill of Rights, they haven't touched that one yet. We air a lot of theories around here, some because we're curious and some because we want to play "What if?" Screw 'em, they suck. Whatever.

You'll notice they didn't choose to mention TIA's poll analysis or any of the academic papers pointing to an impossibly low chance that all of the polls were incorrect. Those also came from us.

I wonder if they'll mention some of the near-criminal and ignorant comments posted over on FR. No, probably not.

[Last Lemming]

32. Mistake here

This is where they got it wrong--
you think the Dems talked about the exit polls because you know the whole debate--inside and out--Dems didn't mention exit polls--didn't use the word Fraud either--only the Republicans said the dirty word. Why are they so worried about Fraud?

[Patsy Stone]

40. Confused

This is where they got it wrong-- Who is "they?"

Also, some Dem in one of the chambers (and I was in meetings all day, so don't quote me here) did mention the exit polls, at least that's what I read in a recap.

The easiest way to diffuse a situation is to bring the true morsel out front and ridicule it. That way they attempt to discredit the entire body of evidence based on the one true piece. Again, they suck. We need to keep doing what we're doing. It's working.

And I think the real question you're asking is, "What ARE they hiding?"

:)

NGU

[Last Lemming]

63. Pretty inarticulate here

--yeah--sorry--"they" are the Republicans. Yesterday "They" talked about stuff that made sense if you had been following weblogs closely but remember--none of this stuff is in the mainstream media--so it wouldn't make much sense to someone who get his or her news from a more conventional source. I think the strategy is to draw the Repubs out. Let them introduce the topics--let them make the link between the election and fraud

this is a strategy not for the faint of heart--I'm having anxiety attacks daily

Not sure about exit polls--will look for transcript to search

[Stephanie]

60. Rove looking at poll numbers is a COMPLETELY different story

from what they were ranting about. Calling OH based on his own exit polls is not the same as personally hacking the vote. Completely different.

[rumpel]

26. Rove had his own exit poll data that night. This is modus operandi. Take

a comment, tweak it, and scream out loud, a hundred times, dispersed with lies and the faithful, take it as fact.

[gordianot]

28. The big lie.

Make up a lie based on facts, repeat it often enough and eventually no one will believe it.

Remember Rather's National Guard letters facts were correct but were identified early as being forgeries. In time every one will forget the content was correct and concentrate on the forgery.

People have short memories. Operant conditioning works.

[Ryder911]

29. They are trying to dismiss the evidence in the...

Conyer's Report by throwing in the wildest conspiracy theories they could find from the Internet. None of them addressed any of the issues in the actual report, they just made wild accusations and, in their defense, quoted statements made by newspapers and Ohio election officials (from several weeks ago) that claimed that there was no evidence fraud in Ohio. None of them will probably ever address any of the concerns raised by the actual report.

The same was true for "Fahrenheit 911". Instead of trying to refute the evidence in the film (which the couldn't), they attacked the filmmaker.

[Bill Bored]

30. We should write to each one who said that

tell them it's not in Conyers' report (double check that first of course!) and explain the true nature of unverifiable voting and what needs to be done.

[booksenkatz]

35. I feel deprived: I missed that conspiracy

I'm proud of my head o' foil, I'm convinced there is nothing/no one that these evil rich Republican bastards wouldn't kill, eat or fuck in order to obtain another billion. And yet... somehow... I missed out on the conspiracy about Bush and Rove hiding in a closet manipulating the Ohio vote whilst giggling maliciously! Damn it all to hell!
:(

(Or maybe they just pulled it out of their ass yesterday. Yeah, that's more like it.)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. Here's the article about Rove on Election Night. You judge for yourself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3987237.stm

Drawing up blueprints for Bush victory

By Rachel Clarke
BBC News, Washington
Snip
---------------------------------

Pressure and pranks

By the time election night came around, Mr Rove was in the White House, where, unusually for a political adviser, he has an office.

He set up computers in the Old Family Dining Room and started tabulating results. He had set up a massive network of contacts, not just in state capitals, but individual districts and precincts to monitor turnout and support.


Mr Rove may spin the news, but the media still wants to hear him
Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them.

And when the TV networks gave either Ohio or Nevada to Mr Bush but not both - which would have led him to be declared as the winner - Mr Rove was one of the president's aides who got on the phone to news chiefs to try to pressure them to change their minds.

[mattclearing]

39. Right, the BBC. Some terrible choices of words in there.

Wonder how un/intentional that was.

[Patsy Stone]

41. Still haven't received an answer to that email I sent her... :) n/t

[mattclearing]

48. Vaguely remember that you did that...

It was to find out what she really saw, right?

Like how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop...the world may never know.

[Patsy Stone]

49. Yet another in the pile

of life's unanswered questions. :)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. It leaves open for questioning what Rove was really doing.

Like magic, after Rove saw that Bush was behind in the polls, and he goes over to the computers, the election starts to go for Bush.

[Junkdrawer]

45. Reread Stephanie's post. They said Rove WAS HIMSELF the hacker...

They didn't say "he directed a group of hackers" which would have been believable.

[Stephanie]

61. Thanks - he was looking at EXIT POLLS - and they transmogrify that

into "conspiracy theories" about Rove personally hacking the vote. Great.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

71. I'm sorry. I don't believe he was just "looking" at poll numbers.

When he saw Bush was losing, he went over to those computers, and the election turned around to Bush.

[Verve]

37. I don't remember them bringing that up yesterday or us really discussing

it here on DU other than to discuss what the MSM said Rove was doing on election night. The media did highly document Rove's bizarre behavior on election night when he was working the phones and his computer. I think there is even a picture of him doing this in the White House that night.

With the exit polls suddenly switching after Rove confidently told Bush he was going to still win, it's a wonder many Republicans didn't come up with this theory themselves.

There is often a sliver of truth in a repeated lie.

Yet, DU, to my knowledge, never took this behavior any further. No proof. Instead we seemed to focus on statistical irregularities, voter suppression, cover ups by Blackwell, etc.. Yet, it's funny the Republicans never mentioned these theories yesterday.

[mcscajun]

42. The claim on Rove has been made here at DU

on numerous threads since the election. Many have posted pictures of Rove and others in a room in the White House, with laptops clearly visible, and have speculated on what was going on there. Others have mentioned Rove talking to Bush when the exit polls were going Kerry's way and then Rove muttering and leaving the room. Later, the exit polls started to turn.

Mind you...I believe none of this. I do believe there were widespread problems, and I do believe that Rove is Machiavelli's second coming, but I don't believe he personally hacked the election.

But some apparently do, and all these ding-dongs need is to see one of those posts here and run with, distort it, etc.

[Stephanie]

62. again, I have never seen such posts

not at DU

[mcscajun]

65. Yup...but as even the mods/admins have said...

...it's a big place. You can't expect to see everything.

[verdalaven]

47. More conspiracy spice.......

Maybe, in their own way, they were admitting the truth?

:) They did protest a bit much, didn't they?

[roseBudd]

50. I notice how they constantly said, republicans & dems from 88 counties

would have to be complicit.

It was almost like they want to make sure people do not think about how votes are counted. That votes are not counted by those bipartisan dems and republicans, they are counted by a computer program. Even punch cards are counted by proprietary secret software.

Computers count votes so no one can see.
They claim Bush won, I say prove it to me.

[Junkdrawer]

53. Excellent point...

And now, because of the unbelievably lax security the "ballots" were given, who knows what a full recount would be counting...ballots or counterfeits.

[euler]

51. There is only so many hours in a day.

The guy has to sleep somrtimes.

[The Gigmeister]

52. Rove didn't hack! He's too busy running the weather machine!!

Many people have been warning that these endless Rove conspiracy theories would catch up to us...

[Patsy Stone]

54. Or he, himself, will catch up to us! LOL n/t

[mattclearing]

57. The Rove stuff is funny though.

Some people just can't take a good Karl Rove Evil Genius joke.

[Patsy Stone]

58. The joke that keeps on giving. n/t

[Emit]

55. According to this source

DeLay was referring to Bush, not Rove. I, too, heard DeLay refer to Bush. Having read the articles about Rove at the White House on election night, and having seen the pics, I assumed that is what DeLay was referring to. Regardless of what is truth to all of this, they all doth protest too much, don't 'cha think?

I wonder if it's all part of their Machiavellian approach to government?

<<snip>>
"Indeed, at one point Representative DeLay, in a brief spasm of semi-coherence, asserted that the election challenge had been brought by the "'X-Files' wing of the Democratic Party," which wing asserted that (he claimed, eeriely) President Bush was a "closet computer nerd" who had a "master computer" in the White House with which he, and/or another nefarious accomplice, undid and re-calculated the actual results of the November election. ."

http://www.nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

[Stephanie]

64. OH! Even better! But even THEY can't believe that WE believe

that Bush could operate a computer.

[Emit]

73. That's funny!

[Vadem]

70. I saw the press conference of the CBC after the vote and a

question was posed to Stepanie Tubbs Jones regarding Rev. Moss' suit and the statement that he had irrefuttable proof that the election was stolen by computer tabulator hacking. Perhaps that is where the reference began?

[Last Lemming]

72. Thanks to all you Republicans

that brought up hacking the vote through centralized processors--even diehard DU members hadn't heard about this

--until you brought it up

[Vadem]

74. Eh? You calling me a Repug? Perhaps I misheard.....n/t

[Last Lemming]

79. Misheard

I'm mumbling--

[RevCheesehead]

76. They didn't. They said BUSH, not Rove.

At least, the ones I heard, because I said, "close, but no cigar. It was KKKarl!"

And yes, this issue of ROVE being the hacker has been discussed here, and it is a very plausible idea.

The fact that THEY brought it up first is what is rather telling.

Just call me another X-files DU'er. After all, the TRUTH is still out there.

NGU

[Stephanie]

85. Here's the Rove quote, by Miller of Michigan >

Mrs. MILLER of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, the American people must be watching this debate and literally shaking their heads. With all of the challenges facing our Nation we are spending our time debating the challenge to the validity of the Presidential election simply because the Democratic Party cannot accept the fact that their candidate lost this election. They cannot accept the fact that their agenda, that their vision for America has been rejected by the majority of Americans. They cannot accept the fact that President George W. Bush simply received more votes than Senator John Kerry.

This election was very hard fought on both sides. The American people have accepted the fact that it is over and they want this Congress to get to work and to work in a bipartisan way.

If this is a minority party's idea of bipartisanship, then let the people of our Nation see it for what it is. Because in the spirit of bipartisanship, the Democrats are asking us to overturn the Presidential election which President Bush won by over 3 million votes nationwide and by over 118,000 votes in the State of Ohio.

In the spirit of bipartisanship they say that somehow Karl Rove was manipulating votes from a secret computer in the White House and that somehow these secret computers were changing the votes on punch cards and optical scan sheets that record actual votes. This language is in their challenge.

How interesting, however, that their challenge as it talks about conspiracies in the State of Ohio, making allegations that have no basis of fact, their challenge is silent about an incident in Ohio where fraudulent voter registration forms were being submitted and the worker who collected them was paid in crack cocaine.

[seabeyond]

80. this is standard repug, take the truth and say out loud and smear

as lie. no one said it in congress, though information suggest rove may have done just that. people have discussed it. no place for them to bring this up, except to take a truth and laugh at it ahead of time so when it does come out, it has already been tainted as a conspiracy therory and doesnt warrant research or investigation. so if this is what they were harping on, suggest to me, this is where we start looking

[shraby]

81. What gets me, is they were calling

everyone else conspiracy theorists..most of their side of the debate was one conspiracy theory after another.

[seabeyond]

83. that is another thing they really do well, say the other is doing

what they are in fact doing. so if they are personally attacking, regardless to the fact kerry talks bush policy which is legit, they throw out he is personally attacking. so when they are called on it, people just say they both do it. break into a democratic office and steal, have one of their people throw a brick in their window office file a police report and then say the other side is doing it too

and it goes on and on and on. accuse the other first of what you are going to do regardless if it is a truth cause no one calls them on their lies

and hten they will just say, dems lie too

[Niche]

82. That was taken out of context that Rove sat looking

at the exit polls on his computer and someone SPECULATED that he could have hacked.

[Stephanie]

86. Here is the exact quote >

Mrs. MILLER of Michigan. Mr. Speaker, the American people must be watching this debate and literally shaking their heads. With all of the challenges facing our Nation we are spending our time debating the challenge to the validity of the Presidential election simply because the Democratic Party cannot accept the fact that their candidate lost this election. They cannot accept the fact that their agenda, that their vision for America has been rejected by the majority of Americans. They cannot accept the fact that President George W. Bush simply received more votes than Senator John Kerry.

This election was very hard fought on both sides. The American people have accepted the fact that it is over and they want this Congress to get to work and to work in a bipartisan way.

If this is a minority party's idea of bipartisanship, then let the people of our Nation see it for what it is. Because in the spirit of bipartisanship, the Democrats are asking us to overturn the Presidential election which President Bush won by over 3 million votes nationwide and by over 118,000 votes in the State of Ohio.

In the spirit of bipartisanship they say that somehow Karl Rove was manipulating votes from a secret computer in the White House and that somehow these secret computers were changing the votes on punch cards and optical scan sheets that record actual votes. This language is in their challenge.

How interesting, however, that their challenge as it talks about conspiracies in the State of Ohio, making allegations that have no basis of fact, their challenge is silent about an incident in Ohio where fraudulent voter registration forms were being submitted and the worker who collected them was paid in crack cocaine.

How interesting that their challenge does not mention the Democratic group ACORN which submitted vote registrations for dead people that used 25 different addresses for the same individual.

Mr. Speaker, before I came to Congress I served very proudly for 8 years as the Michigan Secretary of State where my principal responsibility was serving as the chief election officer. So I feel I have a little bit of background to make some observations about the election process. In fact, Michigan is recognized as a national leader on elections. We constructed the first statewide computerized voter registration list which precludes the possibility of anybody having more than one address or registering more than once.

In fact, I might add, I was very proud in my former capacity to receive the highest grade in the Nation of Secretaries of State for voter election reforms and that grade was given to me by the NAACP.

We are all committed to free and fair elections. We all want to make sure that every single vote is counted, that no different voter is disenfranchised.

I do remember clearly, however, how distressed I was in my former capacity to have to threaten the Detroit City Clerk, a Democrat, with court action if she did not comply with our State election law to make sure that every vote is counted, particularly minority votes. However, my dismay at seeing that none of the Members of the United States Congress here ever spoke out to protect the rights of their own constituents to be heard at the ballot box. There was no outrage. There was no indignation. And yet today we hear outrage based on fantasies and conspiracies.

Mr. Speaker, let me say that I am sincerely interested in undertaking the important work of the American people in truly a bipartisan manner. So I would ask that we might be spared from selective outrage, that we might be spared from the righteous indignation based on fantasy.

Mr. Speaker, the challenges to those votes in Ohio are turkeys. I think those turkeys should be given to someone else.

Mr. Speaker, I yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from Ohio (Mr. Turner).