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Did you guys see this? Kerry's statement read into the Cong Record >

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:48 PM
Original message
Did you guys see this? Kerry's statement read into the Cong Record >
I don't know if the link will hold:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:19:./temp/~r1097pVZ7N:e82447:

_________________________



(At the request of Mr. REID, the following statement was ordered to be printed in the RECORD.)

*

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, free and fair elections are the foundation of our democracy. Thanks to the efforts of tens of thousands of citizens, millions more Americans registered and went to the pools this year. But despite this dramatic expansion in public participation, many voters faced barriers to casting their ballot. Disenfranchisement and barriers to voting are fundamentally undemocratic and should be unacceptable in the freest nation in the world.

On November 3, I conceded the Presidential election to George Bush and also expressed my commitment to ensuring that every vote in this election is counted. The questions being raised by my colleagues in Congress about the vote in Ohio are important. As evidenced by the media and Congressman JOHN CONYERS' report of the vote in Ohio, there were many voting irregularities in the November election that led to the disenfranchisement of voters. These included long lines at predominantly minority polling places resulting from the failure to provide sufficient number of voting machines; voter intimidation and misinformation; the restriction of provisional ballots in a fashion that likely disenfranchised voters; and instances in which malfunctioning voting machines transferred Kerry votes to Bush.

I strongly believe that we need to investigate this election and reform our system. However, while I am deeply concerned about the issues the questions and issues being raised by this objection and think they are very important, I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence to support the objection and change the outcome of the election and I am not joining their protest of the Ohio electors.

Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

It is critical that we investigate and understand any and every voting irregularity anywhere in our country, not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy.

We must take action this Congress to make sure that the problems voters encountered in Ohio and elsewhere never happen again. We must make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. It is critical to our democracy that we investigate and act to prevent voting irregularities and voter intimidation across the country.

I strongly support the efforts of the civil rights and voting rights groups across the country that continue to investigate what happened in 2004 and how we can ensure it will never happen again. A Presidential election is a national Federal election but we have different standards in different States for casting and counting votes. We must have a national Federal standard to solve the problems that occurred in the 2004 election.

I am calling on my Republican colleagues to put election reform on the congressional agenda this year. The Republican leadership in the House and Senate must commit to make protecting voting rights a priority and commit to adding election reform legislation to the legislative calendar this year. One goal must be to eliminate barriers to voting, to encourage the greatest level of civic participation possible, and to restore confidence in the notion that every eligible voter will have the opportunity to vote and to have their vote counted.

I have spoken with Democratic Senate Leader Harry Reid and my colleagues in the House and Senate about my intention to introduce legislation this year to ensure transparency and accountability in our voting system and the need for the Democratic Caucus to make voting rights and electoral reform one of our top priority pieces of legislation. Election reform will be one of my top agenda items.

I will be meeting in coming weeks with key leaders on both sides of the aisle and from civil rights and voting rights groups across the Nation. I plan to use the information gathered by Representative Conyers in his report, and information from other investigations underway, to guide my legislation.

We must invest resources in our country to help State and local communities purchase modern voting machines and do research and development on safe and secure forms of voting. We must ensure that our voting machines enable voters to verify their vote.

No American citizen should wake up the morning after the election and worry their vote wasn't counted. No citizen should be denied at the polls if they are eligible to vote. As the greatest, wealthiest nation on Earth, our citizens should not have to be forced to vote on old unaccountable voting machines. And, as the greatest, wealthiest Nation on Earth, our citizens should never be forced to vote on old, unaccountable and nontransparent voting machines from companies controlled by partisan activists.

Together we can put the critical issue of electoral reform on the front burner in Washington and across the country.
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. (At the request of Mr. REID, the following statement was ordered to be pri
thanks for this... and thanks Harry.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. .
Edited on Fri Jan-07-05 03:53 PM by hippiechick
"... Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election ..."

Way to hedge your bets for 2008, dude.
Yawn.


:hippie:
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Way to miss the point
Yawn.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
39. yep ...yawn ....
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
59. What is the link for the text from Kerry?
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 08:38 AM by mordarlar
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Hi mordarlar - link here
This is from the Congressional Record. The links don't hold though as they are temporary links resulting from a search.

Go here and enter your search terms - 01/06/05 and check off House >

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r109query.html
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Cake and Eat It Too? n/t
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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
60. delete, dupe
Edited on Mon Jan-10-05 08:56 AM by tngledwebb
n/t
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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
61. But did the legal team find evidence of fraud?
Did they or not? Kerry and the Dem leaders should give us an answer now.
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Eye_on_prize Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
69. "...our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence..." ? This sucks
"...our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

This statement tells me Kerry and/or his 'legal team' have their proverbial heads in the sand for reasons beyond me. There have been a number of analyses on DU showing that the outcome may indeed have been very different if every vote had been counted fairly, and if everyone had reasonable access to the polls, and if the electronic "glitches" always favoring Bush (even creating new electronic votes for Bush, more than were registered voters) had not skewed the results in Bush's favor.

I'm a Kerry supporter (a former Green) and am not trying to trash Kerry in saying this, but I cannot for the life of me understand why he keeps framing the issue this way, because it comes very close to poo-pooing the whole thing... as in this being only about "minor glitches" that wouldn't change outcomes, so who cares? Plus, it gives Rethugs a quick handy retort "Well, even KERRY thinks it's just minor glitches. sheeesh.

I keep waiting to be pleasantly surprised by Kerry, for him to come out with something more cogent that tells me he really 'gets' what happened on Nov. 2, but I'm still waiting.
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KatieB Donating Member (431 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. Problem was not that machines were not modern-probs were W modern systems
and computer counting of votes. He needs to be asking for paper ballots and mannual counts. Works in Canada - works in Europe. "Modernizing" machines is what allowed Bush to shift the votes without a trace of evidence!
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Yep. Yesterday, almost all the Dems...
talked as if the possibility of fraud by Republicans was limited to stuffing ballot boxes or voter suppression. They just can't wrap their minds around the idea that when machines count the ballots, 118,000 votes is piddling small change.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I think they can wrap their minds around it, but
without access to the software codes, it's all unsubstantiated heresay. Whereas we have concrete evidence of voter suppression and disenfranchisement.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well, they kept saying that a 118,000 vote margin means that...
fraud couldn't have changed the outcome. If I get a chance later, I'll cite references from the congressional record.
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KerryOn Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. Its not 118,000 votes.
It's only 59,000 votes for a tie.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. They are all math challenged! Cobb can do simple math but they can't!
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 02:36 AM by Amaryllis
11 votes per precinct in Ohio is all it would have taken for a Kerry win. They got that in suppression alone, never mind machine fraud.

And I think that most of them DON"T have a clue about the whole issue with tabulators. There is another thread saying Dean needs to do the 90 second vote switching demo that he did on TV. I say we get Dean to call a press conference and do that.

Why hasn't Dean been more vocal on all this? He knows about machine fraud...he has said some things about the need for election reform, but for the most part has been very quiet.
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. Math Challenged
IMO this is the point everyone is ignoring. * won Ohio by 118,000 votes of those that were cast. What would the outcmoe have been if everyone who went to the polls had been able to vote and if all voted cast were counted properly. OH should have had a re-do . If the Ukraine can do it, why not the US??
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Exactly. Most Dem leaders are math challenged. All the ones that say "not
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 08:55 PM by Amaryllis
enough to change the outcome". How many of the senators who spoke said that? Not sure on the reps. I mostly watched the senate. And when Kerry came out and said it, I realized that he doesn't get it either. Or if he does, he isn't saying it publically. Seems like that statement could take the teeth right out of the Arnebeck suit. Judges can say no harm done, and all that.
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kerstin Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. I think that's what he meant...
Edited on Sat Jan-08-05 06:17 PM by kerstin
I think that's what he meant when he referred to the need for "transparency and accountability" (in other words, "paper trails").
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
35. I'm hoping he meant open source when he said transparency. Paper trails
are meaningless unless there is a recount. Look what a recount got us in Ohio. It's the TABULATORS we have to work on. Get corporations out of the voting biz.

Why not adopt the Oregon system? It minimizes the potential for voter suppression and machine fraud. We still have some work to do on the tabulator issue, however.

In Canada the whole country uses the same kind of paper ballot and they do hand counts! What a novel idea!
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
65. I agree
What was he thinking with the 'old machines' comment? What we need is _no_ machines, or at most, optically scanned machines. The scanning process should be monitored up close by representatives from all sides. All sides should be allowed to bring their own scanners and instantly re-scan the ballots.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting. It is good to see
We didn't have sufficient proof to overturn the election and the burden of proof is on the perceived loser. However, we need to fight for reform so it doesn't happen in 2008.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I don't believe for a minutes that there isn't sufficient proof
How do we know that until it's been investigated? And how do you explain the exit polls, which showed Kerry winning Ohio by 4.2%? Why do we believe in Ukranian exit polls, but not the ones that are done here?
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. He's a lawyer and a politician.
I think he weighed all of it and made his course of action.
I too believe that it all points to a stolen election but its another thing to prove it.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. So much smoke we could choke
but the damn fire is ellusive.

As a procecutor, he wouldn't come out half-cocked. If he didn't have an airtight case, my obsessive-compusive candidate simply was not coming out.

I'm glad to see Kerry was there in spirit on Jan 6th.
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rehema Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
54. As a non-lawyer, I too did not think it is enough to overturn the election
Yes, there are a bazillion irregularities that happened in the election but legally it is not enough in my view.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. You mean not enough that's proveable?
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. Because there isn't sufficient proof at this time
And much can't be investigated until the legal challenges are responded to. And you can't say "well, could you hold up the presidency while I look to see if I can find sufficient proof" (although they kind of tried to do that with Clinton. Where is Kenneth Starr when you need him?)

Ultimately, I don't think Kerry had any choice. I think he certainly does "have a clue" (in response to another post), but needs to word things carefully, as he does not have the proof at this time. He KNOWS how the * media operates. The shrubmen have been able to say nothing but good things about him, because he has been very careful, and in my opinion, very smart. It is very important that he keep his integrity amongst his peers, and that no one is able to label him as a "conspiracy theorist", "threat to democracy" blah blah blah.

I believe that it is no longer about winning the Presidency for Mr. Kerry, and that it will now be about exposing this administration for what they are. I hope time will show that I'm right. I have seen nothing weak or cowardly about him, and although a lot of DU'ers gave up on him, his integrity is intact with the people he will (IMO), be working with to fix the reason he "lost" the election.
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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
66. That's not what ALL of us see, and whatever Kerry and the Dem party
do or say, this issue must remain paramount until the illegal regime is removed.
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oldtime dfl_er Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. sorry but "went to the pools"??
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. yes, went to the pools.
You got a problem with that?
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. No problem here! MEEEOOOW!
Looking at that, I think I will head to the pools myself.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Now pouring ice water on my head, and down my pants........
again!:-)
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Vektor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Do you have any left?
I'm overheating too.
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pixelthief Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. ROFLMAO n/t
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Klimmer Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Ok LOL, but we all make misstakes typing sometimes right?
Who knows who made this misstake originally?

But yes, he is into water sports.

And I like them too ;-)
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I'm definitely into water sports. I especially like bobbing for ...
... apples. :evilgrin:

That being said, I tried to read his statement as objectively as possible and I see a lot of doors left open to the issue of fraud being declaratively raised depending upon the outcome of the investigations, which clearly are still ongoing.

I still want to hear him say he's outraged by the suppression of the minority vote, but I'm beginning to think he never gets outraged by anything, he just lets the anger simmer inside as he deals with what must be done.

What an enigma this man is.
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Klimmer Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. LOL, "bobbing for apples" too funny. But handling his anger . . .
I think he deals with that by getting to work, and getting out in the natural world and having fun for a moment to forget how unbelievably corrupt this world can be.

I know that is how I resolve my angst and frustration. I get outside and adventure and lose myself in fun with my close friends and forget this raw world for awhile. Then I'm rejuvenated to get to work when I come back. I think John Kerry and I share that trait. I suppose that is another reason I really like him so much. I see that in him. I'm a die-hard climber, skier, surfer, and paraglider pilot. I love to "huck" myself off of high places. It makes life that much more real. I recommend it! But then doing so is pretty common here in San Diego :headbang:
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
57. I caught that too. Yeah, we all took a bath. n/t
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think everyone's statement is printed in the Cong. Record.
It only has to mentioned if the person isn't there to deliver it orally.

As far as I know, no one pays attention to the written Record, unless they are researching something. It's the oral speech that counts.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I understand but I was not aware that Kerry had submitted a statement
were you?
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. Hi Stephanie!
Good to see you here!
:loveya:
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for posting this.
I think he probably did the right thing. Not enough proof of fraud.
I just hope when all the investigating is done we aren't gonna be sorry.
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yeah, but he forgot "Now, watch this drive." n/t
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-07-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Lets hope that he and Boxer and a few othere (Clinton)
Get this broken voting democracy fixed.

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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. Statement on Kerry's Senate Website
“On November 3, I conceded the presidential election to George Bush and also expressed my commitment to ensuring that every vote in this election is counted. While I am deeply concerned about the issues being highlighted by my colleagues in Congress and citizens across the country and support their efforts to highlight the need to ensure voting rights, I will not be joining their protest of the Ohio Electors.

“As Representative John Conyers’ (D-Mich.) recently released voting rights report shows, there are very troubling questions that have not yet been answered by Ohio election officials. I have supported and will continue to support a close examination of voting irregularities in Ohio and elsewhere because it’s critical to our democracy.

“As I have committed, in the coming months I will present a national proposal to ensure transparency and accountability in our voting process. I plan to use the information gathered by Representative Conyers in his report, and information from other investigations underway, to guide my legislation. It will be one of my top agenda items. I ask the Republican leadership, and all those concerned about voting rights, to join this effort so that we act on reform this year.

“I will continue to strongly support the efforts of the civil rights and voting rights groups across the country that continue to investigate what happened in 2004 and how we can ensure it will never happen again.

“I am currently traveling in the Middle East to thank our troops for their service, and I am reminded once again of the power of democracy and fair and free elections. All American citizens should have the confidence that their vote was counted. Our democracy depends on it.” ###
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/cfm/record.cfm?id=230432
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Statement from Kerry on 12/08/04 on Election reform
Wednesday, December 8, 2004


WASHINGTON, D.C. –Senator John Kerry released the following statement today on election reform:

"It's critical that we investigate and understand any and every voting irregularity anywhere in our country, not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy. We should be working together to reform the system because it should be unacceptable to anyone, Democrat or Republican, that in the United States many people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process. I want every vote counted in this election, but I also want to make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. That's not too much to ask in the world's greatest democracy and model for free elections."

http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/cfm/record.cfm?id=229965
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OrangeCountyDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. How 'Bout Now?
<<but I also want to make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections.>>

What about the questions and doubts in THIS election? Guess that's not really important, huh?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. The lessons learned from this election will go to make the next better
We're so much more aware even now than we were in 2000. Keep speaking truth to power.

This is not an add water and mix proposition. Like Kim Chee, we may need to let it ferment underground for a while until it's hot enough to melt a few things.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well at least he said something
I'm not sure how I feel about him yet, but this was a good thing.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
30. Good grief, he sounds like he doesn't have a frickin' CLUE! n/t
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 12:22 AM by Bill Bored
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seito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
32. Thanks for posting this
And thanks to the poster that shared the pool shot }(

Way to go Kerry :bounce:

I wish you God speed as you carry out your Presidential duties in the Middle East.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
37. So he doesn't want to be President with a Republican congress...
Now that's understandable...he couldn't possibly turn the downward spiral around with such a Congress...but how DID we get such a Congress. If those Republican voting machines can steal a Presidential race, they can obviously do much more....
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
40. Link dead now
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. This is incredible, pucking out for sure, * & Kerry sitting in a tree,
K I S S ............

They all belong to the same loser's party, but the right wing dominic
religous wackos will never win, they never have and they never will.

:mad:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. Expected coming from some people
Glad to see your opinion hasn't changes since five minutes ago. Please, do continue to give us these updates.
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
43. Very Nice, John, but we told you this would happen three years ago.
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 12:31 PM by TruthIsAll
The Black Caucus tried to tell you what happened in Florida 2000.
But you and all the Democratic senators told them (and us) to "Just Get Over It".

It happened again in the 2002 Senate races.
But there, too, you told us to get over it.
Millions of people believed in you despite of that.

But in 2004 it was deja vu - a third time.
This one can't be swept under the rug like the others.

Now many of us do not believe you are serious.

When you get back from Iraq, support the ongoing investigations- visibly, not by email.

And please don't tell us that there is not enough evidence to overthrow this election. The evidence is overwhelming already - you have alluded to it. But it won't mean a damn thing unless the investigation of the 2004 election is pursued - wherever it leads.

And we all know where it will lead if fully investigated.

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Klimmer Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. TIA, I agree with what you are saying, and I hope you send your message
directly to Senator Kerry personally. On his Senate website he says that is exactly what he is going to do. I believe him. I have a lot of respect for your posts and statistics. I have learned a great deal from them. Tell him directly how you feel, send him an email and personal letter.:toast:

If you think about what has happened in the last 3 elections (2000, 2002, and now 2004) it is really shocking and so overwhelming. I think many of us this election have just now finally woken-up about election fraud and BBV in a very big way. Some of you were onto this years ago. Who could have dreamt this? I don't think any of us wanted to believe this could really happen. Now we know it can happen and it happened in a very big way. But the rest of the nation is far behind us in this realization.

All we have and all we can do now is educate the masses (we have our own radio stations now AAR et al., but we also need our own TV media), desperately push for election investigations throughout our nation, and desperately push for national election reform. Everything that we want to be able to do to get our nation back on the right course and to rescue the future of our country and the world, hinges on this very issue --- our right to have free and fair elections. The Repugs have it sewn-up. And we know exactly what the Repug response will be, they will resist and ignore us any possible way they can. To take a line from an REM song it is going to be like ". . . pushing an elephant up the stairs."

There is one other thing we can do. Maybe you agree or disagree, but I have thought about this, and for me to keep my sanity, my well-being, and to get out of this deep depression and be happy again---I'm going to think of Senator John Kerry as "My President", because he is. I'm going to support him everyway I can, when he says jump for political activism I have, and I will continue to do so. I believe in the next four years Senator Kerry is going to do sooo much for our country. He has perceived and real political power and respect that the Shrub administration and the "Bush crime family" can never have. And this burns the current administration and the Repug party. The current administration is dead to me emotionally. Corporate owned MSM will continue to ignore Kerry, will ignore us, so we must become our own media and we are working toward that in a big way. I will fight and stay active in as many causes that war against this current fascist administration as much as I possibly can. What else can I do if we are to have any future? I love this earth. I love my family and friends. I love the diverse people of our planet. They don't. They are selfish, wicked, evil, and they are not Christian. I don't care what they call themselves, GOD could not be any further from them. I can just hear GOD now on judgement day say to Shrub et al.---"I NEVER KNEW YOU." Bye, bye now :nuke:

Let's not forget, hard work deserves hard play (it is my therapy). For me "taking time to smell the roses" means getting out in the "real world" with my family and friends and enjoying climbing, skiing, surfing and paragliding. Without that I would be nothing. B-)
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
44. What BULLSHIT!
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 12:43 PM by God_bush_n_cheney
"our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election."

They were not looking then cause it was way evident in Florida and Ohio both.
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Klimmer Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Yes they have, but they can not say that outright publicly until . . .
Edited on Sun Jan-09-05 02:54 PM by Klimmer
the investigations come to a conclusion and they have the hard evidence in the palm of their hands. So far the Repugs have done everything to stop the investigations and you know they will continue to do so. Come on for crying-out loud, John Kerry is a prosecutor, he knows what he can say publicly and he knows what he can't say. (I believe our Senators and Representatives said what needed to be said on 1-6-05. Who can be against free and fair elections? Why wouldn't the Repugs want election reform? The Repugs have painted themselves into a corner. This is Brilliant! Now we have to keep the pressure on. Kerry is all over this.)

Look what happened when Kerry investigated in the 80's the CIA-Iran-Contra-Drug affair and found out the Reagan/Bush connection to this. He was labeled a conspiracy theorist by congress and the press, and they tried to marginalize him. It wasn't until the CIA came out and published an internal document in the 90's that vindicated Kerry and others who investigated, but we don't hear any apologies and no one has been convicted of these crimes (i.e. Ronald Reagan/Bush crime family and others in their administration).

Give him a break. We are all stuck right now between a rock and a hard place. Stop fighting our own. Put your energies toward fighting the real enemy.

Edited to add---

Sorry Andy, I didn't realize it was you (duh). I completely respect all that you have been doing over these years to expose the fraud and educate all of us. Thank you. Perhaps you can meet with Kerry in private soon and let him know exactly how you feel and what you know. I wish you would. Maybe you have done this already?
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. The Good Senator knows where I am..
I am extremely easy to find.

If he wants to talk to me...I am more than happy to do so.

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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Go, Andy!!
:thumbsup:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
68. Well that should be your new job, then
Go work for Kerry. Educate him.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
51. PAPER BALLOTS - HAND COUNTS - NO MACHINES - PUBLISHED
TALLIES....

That's what we need to do away with 90% of the fraud we saw in this election..

Paper ballots - hand counts - no machines - published tallies, all up and down the line of certification.

ALL tallies should be published, from the precinct, to county, to state, to the final national tally....all should be published and reconcilled.

NO MACHINES!! And no hand counters who are associated with a campaign!

:kick::kick::kick:
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clancydog Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-09-05 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
52. Kerry said he was going to insure a fair count
BEFORE the election. Remember the army of attorneys on the ground? I spent some money on the campaign and Kerry stood around with his dick in his hand while the election was stolen. He should have been filing injunctions while the lines were forming. My money is going to the Libertarians next election, at least they have some follow-through
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. "and instances in which malfunctioning voting machines transferred
Kerry votes to Bush." Malfunctioning?
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
62. Well, ok, I DO feel better....
I thought he wasn't going to say anything at all.
So I'll give him props for this, at any rate.

I think its a bit late, though, and would have been more helpful when Conyers and Boxer were working on the same issue...

But I admit I never expected even this much, so I'm happier about Kerry than previously.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. It was entered in the record during the 1/6 debate
So it is part of Boxer & Conyers' effort.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-10-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
67. Kick!
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