We Need a Special Prosecutor Thread

[McCamy Taylor]

If Blackwell and his little helpers are ever to be brought to justice we need a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR. The Republican Congress can not investigate the man---Blackwell is a Republican in good standing with his party. The Ohio Attorney General, a Republican, can not do it for the same reason. Nor can the US Attorney General.

Now that January 6 has come and gone with a sucessful challenge, it is time to work on 1.) The Inaguaration Protest, which will be lots of fun, should be no problem getting people to do that, 2.) Election Reform which all the Democrats in Congress seem eager to embrace since it is a win win situation for them politically speaking and 3.) Getting a Special Prosecutor appointed which is going to like getting blood from a turnip.

I predict that number three is the one that is going to get the least attention, so I will start this pitiful excuse for a thread, however, I beg one of the established people here with a following to do something to get people motivated so that we can start talking strategy, history, law. There has got to be a way to get a fire burning under the White House so that the appointment of a Special Prosecutor becomes preferable to the alternative---usually some kind of very public, very nasty media or political muckfest though a civil suit might work, I guess.

Any ideas?

[babsbunny]

1. We Need Barry Scheck!

I heard him today or yesterday on Al Franken! Barry Scheck! I want BlackHOLE shaking in his boots!

[Beth in VT]

2. I agree. This wimpy "I'm paying close attention to the GAO

investigation" isn't going to cut it.

[McCamy Taylor]

3. The GAO is part of the fire under the White House that will eventually

force them to appoint a Special Prosecutor. The fire includes civil suits, the Conyers investigations, independent journalists investigations, private citizens testimony---all documented on blogs and independent media sites.

I hate to say this, but you know the phrase "We got Freeped!"? There is a reason it works.

[Rosco T.]

4. Elliott Spitzer perhaps? n/t

[marcologico]

63. Spitzer would be an awesome prosecutor

In fact he'd be an awesome governor, senator or president. I wouldn't mind seeing Pataki's corrupt ass in the stir either.

[Botany]

5. We need a tough fair man.

Only one person is good enough for this job.

A real Bulldog. Above party politics

Ken Starr

[McCamy Taylor]

6. ROFLMAO

[Twist_U_Up]

7. bwhahahahahahaha

[orleans]

17. OH MY GOD!

[davidgmills]

27. Methinks his heart's not in it

[McCamy Taylor]

8. Another way to light a fire is to get Congressional Election Hearings

have the Dems call witnesses who bring up issues involving Ohio. The Congressional Repubs will be under orders to keep these hearings from happening, however GOP Rep. Ney promised to hold hearings into what happened in Ohio after the inauguration. (I'm not an elephant, but I never forget). Keep him to this promise. This will allow House Dems an opportunity to ask very embarassing questions and they should make them as embarassing as possible.

Memo to self. Email Rep Ney and ask him when the Congressional hearings which he promised into election problems in Ohio are going to be held. Email all the dems on his committe so they can remind him too.

[mordarlar]

9. I wanted to link this thread. We are trying to get all action calls...

in one spot. : )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=262387&mesg_id=262387

Please join us.

[Wilms]

10. Kick n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Do you want this together with Election Reform?

I realize that the mechanics of going after the two goals (election reform and special prosecutor) involve covering some of the same ground, but they are really different things. Election reform is sort of rah, rah feel good, lets do our part for democracy and is the kind of thing you make Republicans feel embarassed not to sign onto. Special prosecutor is more about being such a pain in the ass that they finally appoint one because 1. the public demands it and 2. the White House or GOP needs a breather from the negative publicity.

[Bill MI]

11. Don't get mad, get LOUD!!!

We need to flood the Judiciary Repuglicans with e-mails, letters, and phone calls in order to get them to understand how important this is. They MUST hold FULL investigations with subpeona powers.

<http://judiciary.house.gov/contact.aspx>

The idiots have megaphones, but we have numbers!

The Senate Democrats were cowed, this time by their constituents, into doing what they should have done in 2000. We can't stop now. The ight has only begun!

[McCamy Taylor]

13. That's the spirit!

[McCamy Taylor]

14. Here's contact info on Rep Ney R. Ohio the guy who promise Hearings

Washington D.C. Office
2438 Rayburn House Office Bldg.
Washington, D.C. 20515
P: 202.225.6265
F: 202.225.3394
E-mail: [e-mail]

Here is the text of a memo from 6 Jan in which he promises hearings:

http://www.house.gov/cha/prjan06-05.htm

“As Chairman of the House Administration Committee, I announced weeks ago that our Committee will be holding comprehensive, bipartisan hearings on a range of election reform issues, including an examination of concerns raised from this most recent election. Those hearings and the normal legislative process are the appropriate forum for discussion of ways to improve the election system in this country – not a ridiculous challenge to an election whose outcome is not in doubt."



And here is my email to him.

Dear Rep Ney;

I was relieved to hear that Democrats were not the only ones interested in Election Reform. I have been troubled by some of the stories I have heard coming out of Ohio, stories about voting machines reassigned from Democratic districts to Republican districts resulting in waits of up to 2, 4 or even 10 hours for some voters, voters being disenrolled for no reason, eligibility requirements being changed without warning, lockdowns, impossible vote totals and other problems which have combined to create the appearance of impropriety. The evidence which has been collected so far warrants further investigation, and I believe a public, bipartisan investigation such as the one you plan is indicated. I look forward to it.


Please send him your emails telling him how much you are looking forward to the hearings.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. In case Rep. Ney "Forgets" , Asks the Dems on the Committe to Remind Him

Rep. John B. Larson (D-CT) Ranking Member

District Office: 221 Main Street, 2nd Floor | Hartford, CT 06106 | Phone: [phone] | Fax: [phone]
D.C. Office: 1005 Longworth HOB | Washington, D.C. 20515 | Phone: [phone] | Fax: [phone]


Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-CA)

1514 Longworth HOB
Washington DC 20515
ph 202 225 7924
fax [phone]

Rep. Robert Brady (D-PA)

Washington Office
206 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
phone: [phone]
fax: [phone]

[McCamy Taylor]

16. Here is the Thread "Bible"

See the link to the Conyers Report in the Thread Header:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=259862&mesg_id=259862



Directions: Select atrocity, insert in letter or email and send to elected official or media outlet of choice, rinse, repeat.

[Bill MI]

18. The Democrats proved they can give 'em hell...

Remember the 9/11 commission?

We need to get a full investigation then, yes sorry to say, depend on the Democrats.

Conyers being the senior member of the House has some pull. But he definitely knows how to work the system. He has asked for everyone to flood the Judiciary Committee to cow them into having hearings so that he can do more.

With all he has done for us so far it's the least we can do.

[McCamy Taylor]

20. I was wondering why the Administration Committee myself, Judiciary List

Democrats
Hon. Berman
(D) California, 28th

Hon. Boucher
(D) Virginia, 9th

Hon. Nadler
(D) New York, 8th

Hon. Scott
(D) Virginia, 3rd

Hon. Watt
(D) North Carolina, 12th

Hon. Lofgren
(D) California, 16th

Hon. Jackson Lee
(D) Texas, 18th

Hon. Waters
(D) California, 35th

Hon. Meehan
(D) Massachusetts, 5th

Hon. Delahunt
(D) Massachusetts, 10th

Hon. Wexler
(D) Florida, 19th

Hon. Baldwin
(D) Wisconsin, 2nd

Hon. Weiner
(D) New York, 9th

Hon. Schiff
(D) California, 29th

Hon. Sánchez
(D) California, 39th

[McCamy Taylor]

21. Judiciary Cont. The Republicans

Republican
Chairman

Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Jr.
(R) Wisconsin, 5th

Hon. Hyde
(R) Illinois, 6th

Hon. Coble
(R) North Carolina, 6th

Hon. Smith
(R) Texas, 21st

Hon. Gallegly
(R) California, 24th

Hon. Goodlatte
(R) Virginia, 6th

Hon. Chabot
(R) Ohio, 1st

Hon. Jenkins
(R) Tennessee, 1st

Hon. Cannon
(R) Utah, 3rd

Hon. Bachus
(R) Alabama, 6th

Hon. Hostettler
(R) Indiana, 8th

Hon. Green
(R) Wisconsin, 8th

Hon. Keller
(R) Florida, 8th

Hon. Hart
(R) Pennsylvania, 4th

Hon. Flake
(R) Arizona, 6th

Hon. Pence
(R) Indiana, 6th

Hon. Forbes
(R) Virginia, 4th

Hon. King
(R) Iowa, 5th

Hon. Carter
(R) Texas, 31st

Hon. Feeney
(R) Florida, 24th

Hon. Blackburn
(R) Tennessee, 7th

[McCamy Taylor]

22. Here is my email to Sensenbrenner

Dear Rep. Sensenbrenner;

As the Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, I call upon you to continue the investigation which the ranking Democratic member of your committee Rep Conyers began over the Christmas holiday. Through his diligent efforts, he has uncovered a pattern of irregularities involving the recent elections in Ohio. His report is available to you, so I will not repeat all the details, but I will say that some of the facts are especially troubling. I understand that Congress plans to take steps to reform future elections, however this in itself is insufficient. How can you safeguard the vote unless you have a good understanding of what can go wrong with the election system either through fraud or mismanagement? In addition, from what I have read, there is the possibility that criminal activity may have be investigated. Some of this may involve Republican elected officials in Ohio. Unfortunately, the Attorney General of the State of Ohio is a Republican as is the current administration meaning that only a bipartisan Congressional Judiciary Committee or a Special Prosecutor can ethically investigate these matters.

I trust you will do your duty to America to uphold her laws and restore her citizen’s faith in their government.

[k8conant]

32. Nice to see Feeney's on the Jud. Committee..

Hon. Feeney
(R) Florida, 24th

:evilgrin:

[McCamy Taylor]

53. Oh, no!

[McCamy Taylor]

19. This is the history we hope to see repeated (Watergate)

http://ar.essortment.com/watergatescand_reji.htm

[euler]

23. I wish you luck with 1 and 2, but 3 won't happen

See Wikopedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_prosecutor

Federal officials only.

[McCamy Taylor]

24. hmmm, then we need the special prosecutor for Karl Rove

Thanks for the info! Who is doing PLame?

[McCamy Taylor]

25. 3 Letters to the Editor in todays NYT! Yeah!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/08/opinion/l08elect.html

[Vidar]

26. The Special Prosecutor law had a time limit, which was allowed to

expire conveniently after all the damage it did to Clinton & before it could be used on chimpie. Sorry. I agree absolutely with the need, but the repukes saw this one coming.

[roenyc]

28. Seriously? there is no more special prosecutor?

and the Dem's let that happen? what are we nuts? sometimes i wonder if perhaps some of the Dem's are content with fascism.

[Vidar]

29. I don't have a link and my memory's not perfect . Try googling it.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. I think its the Independent Counsel law Ken Starr trashed with his porno

Special Prosecutor was what Archibald Cox and Leon Jaworski were, and I believe these are still on the books will check.

Let's talk turkey here. The guy we all want to take down is Karl Rove, and there are a fair number of Republicans who would like to do this too (though most would never ever admit it aloud for fear of reprisals--and Ill bet Karen Hughes is one of them). So if the Congressional Hearings uncover some dirt that points to any federal officials and we can get a special prosecutor with some teeth to start an inquiry, Karl Rove will be under the microscope.

[Vidar]

38. You're right: Independent Counsel law expired. Sorry to mislead.

[McCamy Taylor]

31. JOhn Dean confirms, Special Prosecutor still a go

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030718.html

(Note this is about the WMD lies)

"There is an unsavory stench about Bush's claims to the Congress, and nation, about Saddam Hussein's WMD threat. The deceptions are too apparent. There are simply too many unanswered questions, which have been growing daily. If the Independent Counsel law were still in existence, this situation would justify the appointment of an Independent Counsel.

"Because that law has expired, if President Bush truly has nothing to hide, he should appoint a special prosecutor. After all, Presidents Nixon and Clinton, when not subject to the Independent Counsel law, appointed special prosecutors to investigate matters much less serious. If President Bush is truly the square shooter he portrays himself to be, he should appoint a special prosecutor to undertake an investigation."

[forgethell]

71. That's because it was used on

Clinton. Or abused, if you prefer. The point is that the very existence of a special prosecutor is subject to abuse, and this showed it.

A good idea, in theory, that proved to have exremely bad, unintended consequences.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. This one calls Conyers "Our Special Prosecutor" but he lacks the power

of a true Special Prosecutor to subpoena and the finacial resources. However the article has some good ideas for ammo if you are sending indignant letters about criminal activity that needs to be investigated like the Republican Party's ties to Nathan Sproul:

http://votecobb.org/newsclips/2004/dec/news2004-12-23b.php

"Nathan Sproul, the former head of the Arizona Republican Party (and of the state's Christian Coalition), managed a multi-state, Republican National Committee-financed campaign to sign up new GOP voters. In the process, his poorly paid employees, pretending to be non-partisan voter registration workers, reportedly destroyed hundreds if not thousands of signed, but unwanted, Democratic registration forms — serious criminal offenses committed in concert in the furtherance of the GOP's electoral fortunes. A non-Republican "Giuliani" would want to know about every conversation Sproul had had with Republican Party officials over the course of at least a year. Investigators would interview each of Sproul's interlocutors, and warn them — and Sproul — of the additional penalties attached to conspiracy. The investigator's goal is to "turn" conspirators into witnesses in the search up the chain, or to catch bad actors in a lie — an additional charge to hold over their heads. This is how the larger scheme — the criminal enterprise — is routinely fleshed out."

[Vidar]

37. I thought there was something about Conners needing

a senator on board to have subpoena power in the Judiciary Committee (still unfortunately chaired by a republican), but I can't get confirmation on this.

[Zan_of_Texas]

64. ya mean Conyers?

He is a ranking minority member -- I think in order to have subpoena power, he has to have the majority chair or members of the committee join in the investigation. Could be wrong, but I think that is why he has had to have "briefings" instead of full-fledged congressional hearings -- the Rs won't play.

Here's my suggestion. (You will quickly ascertain that I am tired of playing by the rules of "smile nicely", when the other side has already overturned the board and is running rampant.)

Bob Ney of Ohio bottled up the Rush Holt bill completely last year - no hearing, no nothing. Somebody needs to get some nice photos of Mr. Ney doing something, anything, he is not supposed to do (aside from "boring" things like not blocking election reform -- it's just not good TV material, not visual enough!). I hope that he DOES do something that Middle America would frown on -- if so, let's just d o c u m e n t that.

[troubleinwinter]

47. Some cool Conyers letters...

this one in Oct. 2003 to Rove, asking for his resignation.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/roveresignltr10703.pdf

This one to Special Counsel to investigate Condi Rice for violations of the Hatch Act in Oct. of this year.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/roveresignltr10703.pdf

May 2004 letter to Bush requesting Rumsfeld's resignation.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/rumsfeldresignltr5604.pdf

Lots of very interesting letters on this page:
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/correspondence/letters.html

[FogerRox]

40. yes the law was let to expire--no more Spec. Prosecut.

[forgethell]

33. As a matter of principle

I object to special prosecutors. this is another weapon that will be turned on Democrats, witness the Clinton sage.

[McCamy Taylor]

35. Huh? Did you object to Cox when he was uncovering Nixon's crimes?

Did you think maybe Congress should have relied purely upon the investigative skills of a bunch of politicians to uncover criminal activity just because the criminal happened to be the president?

Ken Starr's job was to make American's think that there was something inherently wrong with the idea of the office of the Independent Counsel. We here at DU are smarter than the Freepers (who are hoping that Gov Arnold will redistrict Sen . Boxer's safe district in order to punish her for what she did, he he he). We do not fall for their games.

[forgethell]

46. As a matter of principle

I object to a special prosecutor.

[McCamy Taylor]

36. Help! Does anyone have a link to the Karl Rove in his Computer Control

Room at the White House on election night photo?

[McCamy Taylor]

39. As someone pointed out Blackwell cant get a Special Prosecutor

cause he isnt federal, however Watergate started with burglars who didnt want to take the rap for the White House, so if Blackwell is indicted on state charges and spills his guts that would get the ball rolling.

In that spirit, here a link to a story another DU'er posted about how Blackwell has illegally solicited Corporate Donation! Damn that guy is sloppy. There have got to be a million other ways in which he has f**ked up just waiting for someone to find them. His GOP AG friend from Ohio cant have been covering his back 24-7.

http://www.dispatch.com/election.php?story=dispatch/2005/01/08/20050108-B1-00.html

Meanwhile, the fund-raising letter also says that "corporate & personal checks are welcome" — when Ohio law clearly says such donations are illegal.

Jeff Ledbetter, fund-raising coordinator for Blackwell’s gubernatorial campaign, said the request was an oversight. He said the printer used a template for an issue committee, which can accept corporate checks.

[pixelthief]

41. kick n/t

[Tuesday_Morning]

42. Kick! n/t

[troubleinwinter]

43. Conyers is the man to do it....

It was Conyers that called for the Special Prosecutor in the Plame case. BUTTT, how that came about was Conyers writing a letter to Ashcroft demanding such a prosecutor, and Ashcroft appointed Fitzgerald. What is the likelyhood of Gonzalez appointing one? Is there any other way than petitioning the USAG?

[FreepFryer]

45. Yes, the Congress can - and so can a federal judge (that's happened twice)

Judge names special prosecutor for Bitsky - 11:35 PM 7/16/03
The ongoing federal civil rights case against former Adams County Undersheriff Kenneth Bitsky took another twist Wednesday when a federal judge in Madison appointed a special prosecutor to try the case.

A UW-Madison law professor said that the only other time in U.S. history this was attempted by a judge was in connection with a Watergate-era case, and that appointment was overturned by a federal appeals court.

U.S. District Judge John Shabaz on Wednesday ordered that former U.S. Attorney John O. Olson, now an attorney in private practice in Lake Geneva, be appointed special prosecutor to replace Assistant U.S. Attorney John Vaudreuil.

The order does not elaborate on his reasons for appointing a special prosecutor, but Shabaz has said that the interests of justice were not served by dismissing a civil rights charge against Bitsky.

From http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/local/52956.php

Special Prosecutor:
n. an attorney from outside of the government selected by the Attorney General or Congress to investigate and possibly prosecute a federal government official for wrongdoing in office. The theory behind appointing a special prosecutor is that there is a built-in conflict of interest between the Department of Justice and officials who may have political or governmental connections with that department. The most famous special prosecutor was law professor Archibald Cox, originally chosen to investigate White House (and President Richard Nixon's) involvement in the Watergate scandal. President Nixon demanded that Attorney General Elliot Richardson fire Cox, who was being aggressive in his investigation, and Richardson resigned rather than comply, as did Assistant Attorney General William Ruckelshaus. Deputy Attorney General Robert Bork finally discharged Cox.

From http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1987&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

[troubleinwinter]

48. Very interesting. Thank you.

I just re-read Conyers' letter to the FBI requesting investigation into Ohio violations of FEDERAL laws. http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/brockbealohelecltr121504.pdf

[McCamy Taylor]

49. Fascinating case you cited from 2003

Appears the Ashcroft DOJ was being its usually dickish self about ignoring the civil rights of Americans so a Judge said "Fine, I'll appoint someone outside Ashcroft's jurisdiction to make sure that this guy's civil rights are protected." The defendent is an undersherriff, hardly a federal elected official, so if this judge's appointment of the special prosecutor in the case stands, it means that any federal judge could decide that Ashcroft/Gonzale's DOJ is dragging its heels investigating/prosecuting Blackwell and other Ohio state officials for voting law violations and appoint a special prosecutor.

Anyone know if the appointment was upheld on appeal?

[FreepFryer]

50. No, it appears not, but the reasons why pose interesting questions...

http://www.wislawjournal.com/archive/2003/0924/dismissal-0924.html

Judge can’t deny motion to dismiss

By David Ziemer
Wisconsin Law Journal

Sept. 24, 2003

'The court acknowledged that no statute authorizes the government to appeal from a denial of the dismissal of a count or case. Nevertheless, the court stated, “we do not think that there can be much doubt that such relief is available by way of mandamus,” citing cases from the Second and Third Circuits that, respectively, allowed such relief, or suggested in dicta it would be allowed.

The court also quoted United States v. Giannattasio, 979 F.2d 98, 100 (7th Cir. 1992), for the rule that, “A judge in our system does not have the authority to tell prosecutors which crimes to prosecute or when to prosecute them.”

The court recognized an exception for criminal contempt of court, but found it irrelevant to the case. The court reasoned, “The theory behind the exception is that the judiciary should not be dependent on the executive to assure compliance with its orders; but no judicial order was flouted in this case. In refusing to dismiss the civil rights count against Bitsky, the district judge was telling the government which crimes to prosecute, and, as these were not crimes against the judiciary, in doing so he stepped outside the boundaries of his authorized powers.”

What the court held

Case: In re: United States of America, Petitioner, No. 03-3037.

Issue: Can a judge refuse to dismiss a count of an indictment based on public policy considerations?

Holding: No. The executive branch has sole power to decide which charges to prosecute and which to dismiss.

The court also acknowledged that Rule 48(a) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure requires leave of court for the government to dismiss an indictment or a single count.

The purpose of the Rule, however, is to protect a defendant from the government’s harassing him by repeatedly filing charges and then dismissing them before they are adjudicated.

The court found no such purpose implicated in this case, however, where both the defendant and government wanted the civil rights count dismissed with prejudice.

The court concluded, “The district judge simply disagrees with the Justice Department’s exercise of prosecutorial discretion. As he explained in his response to the petition for mandamus, he thinks the government has exaggerated the risk of losing at trial: ‘the evidence was strong and conviction extremely likely.’ The judge thus is playing U.S. Attorney. It is no doubt a position that he could fill with distinction, but it is occupied by another person.”

The court further acknowledged “speculations” in some opinions that a judge could deny a motion to dismiss a criminal charge even though the defendant had agreed to it. Those cases state that a motion should be denied if it is in bad faith or contrary to the public interest, such as where “the prosecutor appears motivated by bribery, animus towards the victim, or a desire to attend a social event rather than trial.”

Such suggestions notwithstanding, the court found no actual case upholding a denial of a motion to dismiss on such a basis.

The court concluded, “That is not surprising. The Constitution’s ‘Take Care’ clause (art. II, § 3) places the power to prosecute in the executive branch, just as Article I places the power to legislate in Congress. A judge could not properly refuse to enforce a statute because he thought the legislators were acting in bad faith or that the statute disserved the public interest; it is hard to see, therefore, how he could properly refuse to dismiss a prosecution merely because he was convinced that the prosecutor was acting in bad faith or contrary to the public interest.”

[McCamy Taylor]

51. THanks. So it appears that Gonzales will be the only one who can

appoint a special prosecutor, and his job will be to JUST SAY NO, no matter how many Congresspeople, reporters, and concerned citizens badger him to do so.

I believe that Ashcroft may have hurried through his resignation, because he hopes to have a political career beyond the Bush administration and didnt want to have to JUST SAY NO, which would tarnish his future political career in elections.

Gonzales, on the other hand, is hoping for a judicial appointment, so he can JUST SAY NO until he is blue in the face and eventually the GOPers in Congress will reward him with a big fat lifetime Supreme Court appointment.

This is going to be VERY tricky.

Best option may be to implicate Gonzales so that he has to recuse himself on the grounds that he is involved.

[FreepFryer]

54. We have a chance to have a fed. judge appoint a SP, w/o prior dismissal.

As the case indicates, the appeal was not upheld because the judge dismissed pending charges in his court and appointed the SP.

An SP appointed to investigate and prosecute a case by a Federal Judge not having heard the case would indeed be legal, and could indeed be a valid strategy.

I'll keep you posted.

[troubleinwinter]

55. Please DO keep us posted!

[McCamy Taylor]

58. Cool! Thanks!

I'll bet the Bushies wish they had appealed this one.

[davidgmills]

62. I don't know about that

While I wish it were true in this case, the power to prosecute, as that opinion points out, lies in the executive branch of the government, not the judicial.

Anyway you cut it, it seems like the judge is telling the executive how to do it's job when it is unsatisfied with the way the executive is performing.

Think about it this way. Do you really want judges telling prosecutors who they should prosecute? That's a slippery slope if ever there was one.

[FreepFryer]

65. No doubt - that slippery slope is what's wrong with the SP concept itself

[snot]

44. Kick

[McCamy Taylor]

52. 84 hits for "Special Prosecutor" and "Ohio Election" up from 81

Yesterday, not nearly enough

Here is one that didnt show up yesterday, a Clinton Curtis story with appropriate references to Iran Contra.

http://www.karmabanque.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1986

This is a good one for Congress to sink its teeth into. However, since Feeney is in Congress, do the Dems in Congress grill Feeney or does Congress punt this one to the AG?

Also, is this a House Judiciary Committe Matter or a House Govt Reform (Ewwww! Dan Burton) Committee matter?

[shraby]

56. How about a class action

civil suit against the BOE in Ohio by the people who were disenfranchised?

[McCamy Taylor]

57. Has such a suit been filed yet? The people who were purged from

the rolls for no reason and given no opportunity to get back on hsould have a good case. So should the ones who didnt get absentee ballots and then were told they couldnt use provisional ballots.

Would they be allowed a discovery phase and to subpoena witnesses?

[McCamy Taylor]

59. An aside, I still think Bush an Co. deserve jail for Enron

and that almost everything they have done--from rigging the 2002 elections to steal the Senate to getting Gov Arnold in place in California to ensuring a Jeb win in Florida in 2002 to the theft of this years election has been designed to make sure that no sucessful investigation can connect the dots between

1. Ken Lay's contributions to W.

2. Enron and others price gouging of California

3. W.'s rollback of the price caps in California

4. Cheney and the FERC's refusal to intervene until a federal judge said "There is price gouging going on here guys"

at which point 9-11 happens, the Republican House with strong Administration support tries to give financially ailing Enron an immediate great big retroactive rebate of taxes IT NEVER PAID as part of a economic stimulation package associated with 9-11, only to be stopped short by the Dems in the Senate who say "You want to do what????" At which point, Enron's financial house of cards collapses. Lucky for the administration they have the war on terror to take the public's mind off their ties to Enron. Even luckier that next year, they manage to kick out Max Leland who has a huge lead in the polls and watch Wellstone die in a play crash in order to take control of the Senate where they squash the ongoing Enron investigations. And, the next March, just days before the FERC is scheduled to release its report in which it will belated admit that Enron really did price gouge California, Bush and Co. announce that they absolutely positively can not wait another day to invade Iraq.

Oh, and California, where the Democratic Governor is all gung ho to sue Enron's ass---it gets a big recall, and a new Republican governor who has met with Ken Lay in the past.

However, the change that we will get an investigation of Enron is about the same that pigs will fly. There is a very detailed thread at Salon under Politics that has lots of facts gathered together if anyone is interested in more. The above is a quick and dirty summary. Some people think I am being cynical when I suggest that the timing of the invasion of Iraq was affected by the FERC report on the price gouging, but look at Karl Rove and ask if there is anything that man would not do.


Can you believe they gave Ken Starr and the others gazillions to investigate Whitewater and nothing of substance has been done about Enron? If ever a crime called out for a special prosecutor this is it. I really think there needs to be some way to link this election fraud to enron--maybe through Aventure which is Arthur Andersen which was convicted for Enron related activity. If the public associated election irregularities would Enron it would be much more suspicious.

Anyeway this is the CBS story that made me think of Enron:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/01/eveningnews/main620626.shtml

Before the 2000 election, Enron employees pondered the possibilities of a Bush win.

"It'd be great. I'd love to see Ken Lay Secretary of Energy," says one Enron worker.

That didn't happen, but they were sure President Bush would fight any limits on sky-high energy prices.

"When this election comes Bush will f------g whack this s--t, man. He won't play this price-cap b------t."

Crude, but true.

[DearAbby]

60. So long as the GOP control everything there is no chance in hell they are

going to appoint one, that would ultimately likely be the downfall of their own party. No we have to keep the investigations going, create lawsuits to make sure it is never a dead issue.

Get rid of the Voting machines, so we can have clear fair elections.

Until 2006 when the Demcrats regain both houses. Then lay the evidence that have been carefully collected and investigated and appoint the Special prosecuter. Watch the dominoes fall

[McCamy Taylor]

61. Thats another strategy, force fair elections. However, it failed in 2002

amd 2004, because there is no way for the Dems to forsee every possible GOP cheat. In order to get fair elections, I think we are going to need investigations with clout. And that is going to mean a combination of grassroots/independent media/Democratic congressional/civil lawsuit pressure that does not let up.

What happened in 2002 and 2004 was like having Watergate happen and instead of demanding the tapes, Congress and Cox told Nixon, "OK we will send the burglars to jail, and you have to promise to tell your people not to break into any more buildings again cause we will be watching all the buildings." So , Nixon made sure that his people changed the strategy of their dirty tricks so they would not be caught breaking into any more buildings.

YOu know what they want in 2006, right? A fillibuster proof Senate. And later, in case a Dem gets into the White House, a veto proof Congress.

[McCamy Taylor]

66. Blackwell orders Democrats to cut the number of precincts...presumably

so that they few that are left will be large and unwieldly.

LInk to DU Thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x274453

Yet another suspect action on his part for which we can say |THis demands further investigation!"

[McCamy Taylor]

67. Link to DU thread of Stuff people are doing to spread the word

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=273910&mesg_id=273910&page=



If enough flyers, pamphlets, blogs and newsletters show up, people will notice, and with the internet it is REAL easy for them to go home and do a search to find out what the fuss is about. The People's Choice Award for F 9-11 proves that people are suspicious.

IT could be something as simple as posting flyers on billboards.

[McCamy Taylor]

68. WTF! IF CBS got a Independent Investigator for Rathergate Ohio

should get a Special Prosecutor for Votergate!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/business/media/10cnd-cbs.html?oref=login&hp

:wtf:

[Niche]

72. What about FALSE DOCS ALL THE TIME on MSM

and CBS is on the list... they're bringing people down... it's getting scary... really scary...

[McCamy Taylor]

75. Yep, is why reporters are afraid to touch this one. However, ambition

can trump fear. MM just got a People's Choice for FF 9-11. THat should spur some reporters to start thinking about their own careers and how they would like to be the next Woodward or Bernstein.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[McCamy Taylor]

70. Au contraire, the threat of a Special Prosecutor will keep Congress on its

toes.

Here is how the scenerio goes:

If Congress says "We dont want to get caught up in partisan bickering we want to jump straight into election reform" we say "You tried that in 2000, and the reform efforts weren't too effective were they, because you didnt bother to investigate the problem first. This time you need to do a thorough investigation of what went wrong in Ohio, Florida and the rest." (Note, this is an excellent opportunity for the forces to divide into Good Election Reform, Bad Election Reform with one side advocating peaceful reform the other screaming "Off with Blackwell's head". Good Cop , Bad Cop doesnt make suspects clam up, it makes them cooperate with the Good Cop which sort of blows your theory to heck)

If Congress says "We are too busy to investigate this, because we have to do x, y and z" then we reply "Appoint a special prosecutor. Let him do all the investigating for you, then you can use his results to do the reform work." Congress will suddenly find time to do the investigation itself.

If Congress says "We dont want to investigate the alegations against Feeney (one of our own) or Blackwell (a GOPer)" then we reply "THat's understandable, appoint a special prosecutor. He wont feel embarassed one bit." Congress will suddenly find that it isnt embarassed at investigating its own after all.

Expect the GOPers in Congress, even those like Rep Ney who have PROMISED investigations to think of 1001 reasons not to hold hearings, but in the meantime the spunky Dems like Conyers and Waxman (go GAO!) will be investigating and publishing and investigating and publishing. Our job will be to to scream at the top of our lungs every time they uncover a new outrageous fact.

RE: Blackwell's Democratic operatives, they should go to jail too, or at least be forced to turn government witness just like the GOP operatives. Criminal activity is criminal activity.





You know, I sort of like it when people try to talk me out of advocating a Watergate style investigation effort, because it gives me an excuse to kick this baby.

[bleever]

106. I'm sorry; did you say kick?

[McCamy Taylor]

73. Washington Post columnist STRONGLY hints need for investigation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61930-2005Jan9.html

"Well, I don't want to overturn the election, either. But I would like to know if public officials and private citizens engaged in a significant and concerted effort to steal the election in the event the wrong person seemed to be winning it. And if so, I'd like to know who the miscreants were, what they did and what heads are going to roll.

"Because if all we get are a few hearings and empty promises, it's a safe bet it'll happen again."

Im sending him an email. The only way to get heads to roll is with serious prosecution and the only way to do that in these partisan times is with an unbiased....Special Prosecutor!

[Joe Chi Minh]

76. MSM attention..

Wow! He would be a brave African American wouldn't he. And I thought the Washington Post had lost interest in courageous investigative reporting.

[McCamy Taylor]

77. Two words, Woodward, Bernstein

74. Secretary Of State Blackwell In Hot Water Again

A pledge card accompanying the letter said "corporate and personal checks are welcome." Corporate donations are illegal in Ohio.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2005/local/01/08/blackwell.html



:bounce:

[McCamy Taylor]

78. Sure hope someone's checked to see if he got corporate money before

when he ran for SOS.

[McCamy Taylor]

79. Great attention getting activity from the Jan 6 DC Protesters!

Link to the DU Thread. The MSM reported only a handfull of people these pics look like many more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x275353

Just imagine how great the Jan. 20 photos from DC and around the country are going to look.

[DearAbby]

80. Healthy Kick

:kick:

[McCamy Taylor]

81. Amazing what Conyers is doing even without a Special Prosecutor

Can you imagine how much dirt would be uncovered by a full time prosecutor with actual subponea power a full time staff and a budget?

Link to the DU thread about the ONGOING Conyers Investigation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=259862&mesg_id=259862

[McCamy Taylor]

82. Anyway we could get the Conyers reports printed in handy paperback form

and sold at Barnes and Nobles or Starbucks which I understand give all their political contribution dollars to Democrats?

[McCamy Taylor]

83. Link to DU Thread about Redress through Civil Action

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=276145&mesg_id=276145&page=

[McCamy Taylor]

84. Another concrete suggestion to pile up the "charges"

Link tp the DU thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x276337

[McCamy Taylor]

85. Why Florida Needs to Be Investigated Even More Than Ohio

Link to a DU Thread I started (Sounds like Incest doesnt it? Sorry)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=277391#

[Amaryllis]

86. Talk to Arnebeck and get his thoughts? Andy?

[McCamy Taylor]

87. Investigating Florida: Citizens Can Recount There!

Interesting DU Thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x277717


Since it wont be the MNM doing it, no one can arrange a 9-11 before results are released.

[McCamy Taylor]

88. Nothing Says "Scandal" Like "ENRON", Be Sure ENRON is at Jan 20

I realize that Votergate and the Invasion of Iraq are fresher topics, but Enron STILL hasnt been investigated and it is the Mother of all Bush Conspiracies. A case can be made that every god damn thing they have done has been to help Enron make money and then to cover up what they did for Enron.

Anyway, the criminals involved in Enron still have not been brought to justice and W. still hasnt explained what he was thinking when he rolled back those price caps allowing those energy traders to f**k the grandmas of California as they so quaintly put in on the tapes which CBS aired last summer (and which probably contributed to the wrath of Karl Rove). Nor have we seen the Cheney energy documents.

Do not allow the smoke of all the different fires this administration has started around the world make us forget that the biggest, nastiest most treacherous (for W.) is the one in his own back yard.

E-N-R-O-N. If White Water deserved an Independent Counsel, Enron deserves a Special Prosecutor.

[McCamy Taylor]

89. * Gutting DC Office Special Counsel for Whistleblower Protection

http://www.peer.org/press/554.html

The U.S. Special Counsel, the principal protector of federal whistleblower and merit system rights, has abruptly ordered more than 20 percent of his headquarters legal and investigative staff to relocate or be fired. According to a letter of protest filed today by three national whistleblower watchdog groups, those targeted for forced moves are all career employees hired before Bloch became Special Counsel, as part of a purge to stifle dissent and re-staff the agency with handpicked loyalists.

Bloch began the second year of his five-year term by ordering 12 headquarters employees, on penalty of removal, to accept involuntary transfers to Dallas, Oakland and a newly created Detroit field office. Bloch did not ask for volunteers or consult with affected employees beforehand. The employees have been given 10 days to agree to the transfer and 60 days to move. As many of the employees have families in the area it is not known how many will leave public service rather than move.

[McCamy Taylor]

90. Is it really a crime to give federal dollars to Armstrong Williams?

If so, add another to the list of criminal activities that need to be shouted about then investigated.



:nuke:

[McCamy Taylor]

91. Innauguration Protests! Yeah!

DU link!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x281018

:party:

[McCamy Taylor]

92. Washinton Post link, too

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5131-2005Jan12.html

[McCamy Taylor]

93. Dont Forget the Jazz Funeral for Democracy, Me and my Mom Will Be Here

Mourning in New Orleans. Yes, it is hard work, but some of us have to do it (sniff).

http://www.jazzfuneralfordemocracy.com/index.asp

:cry:


Any protest anywhere is good if it gets media attention!

[troubleinwinter]

94. Human Rights Watch calls for Special Prosecutor

Torture in Iraq, Afganistan and Guantanamo

<snip>

"But Human Rights Watch said senior U.S. officials had tried to blame the young soldiers they sent out to fight instead of accepting responsibility themselves for policies and orders that weakened rules against torture and inhumane treatment.

Kenneth Roth, executive director of organization, said U.S. credibility was at stake. "The U.S. government is less and less able to push for justice abroad, because it's unwilling to see justice done at home," Roth said.

Human Rights Watch urged the Bush administration name a special prosecutor to investigate U.S. officials who participated in, ordered or had command responsibility for torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. "

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7319490

[McCamy Taylor]

96. This is real journalism!

Karl Rove wont like this.

:nopity:

[StephanieMarie]

95. How about a special prosecuter to investigate *

[McCamy Taylor]

97. Waxman Formally Asks GAO to Investigate Elections

DU Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x281481

[troubleinwinter]

98. GOOD. The more the merrier! How does this

differ from the Conyers letter sent to GAO (and signed by many Reps.)a few weeks ago?

[McCamy Taylor]

99. No idea, may just be intended to keep the pressure on.

[McCamy Taylor]

100. This is something I wrote as a joke, about Dan Burton

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1493882&mesg_id=1493882

Dan Burton would make sure we got a special prosecutor, if he were on our side. He is the God of Investigations.

[troubleinwinter]

101. That is hysterical! I hope you sent it just for kicks!!!

[troubleinwinter]

102. HOUSE DEMS TO ASK JUSTICE TO APPOINT SPECIAL BLACKWELL PROSECUTOR

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=552

[McCamy Taylor]

103. YES! YES! YES!

:party: :toast: :party: :toast: :party: :toast:

Now, the Dems need to keep at it, asking every other day, IN PUBLIC, why Ashcroft and then Gonzales, have not complied with their requests to appoint a Special Prosecutor investigate SOS Blackwell.

In fact, every speech they give should include some reference as to the executive branch's lack of action on the matter. Doesnt matter what the discussion is about. Remember how everything about Kerry came back to "he is a flip flopper"? If the discussion is about Laura's dress for the inauguration, somehow the Dems need to use that as a starting point for a talk about why the administration is delaying appointing a Special Prosecutor.

[McCamy Taylor]

104. Link to DU Thread: Contact Congressional GOPers re Election Investigation

Let the Republicans in Congress know how mad America is!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x284186

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[troubleinwinter]

105. Antbody have the free online fax sites?

I done gone & lost 'em! Faxes are better than emails. I got a hunka pile of faxes to send!

[darkworkz]

107. Write your letters to Congress!! Paper is better than email!

Send through the USPS. Washington is run on paper. So flood the House and Senate with letters. The repugs will have to comment when they note that all the letters coming in have been CC'd to the democrats as well. Force them all out into the open! Paper will do that!

Take back the Republic with a stamp.

[McCamy Taylor]

108. FCC to Investigate Armstrong Williams?! Will Dept Edu. Investigate Ohio?

This is not the kind of special investigation we need, one arm of the adminstration pretending to investigate some other arm of the administration. This could get to be some kind of macabre joke with a dozen internal "investigations" going on, none of them doing anything but gagging the witnesses and tying up the evidence so that no one can get to it in civil court.

Wanna bet that the FCC focuses solely on the ethics of journalists taking money for stories---and begins a witch hunts against left leaning journalists---and no one addresses the illegality of the administration spending government money for behind the scenes advertising?

Meanwhile, the administration can brag that it is "Investigating".

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=3&u=/ap/20050113/ap_on_go_ot/fcc_williams

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[McCamy Taylor]

109. * says in interview dont need Investigation because he's got Mandate!

Karl Rove needs to put a sock in *s mouth. Rove has been feeding the MSM scandal after scandal, and what does Dumbya do the minute he sits down with sympathetic reporters from the Fort Worth Star Telegram? He tells them "We dont need no investigations of WMDs and Iraqi prison abuses, no siree, because I gots me a mandate!" Well, not in so many words. Here are his actual words."

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/10660546.htm

'President Bush said that the public's decision to re-elect him was a ratification of his approach toward Iraq and that there was no reason to hold any administration officials accountable for mistakes or misjudgments in prewar planning or managing the violent aftermath.

"'We had an accountability moment, and that's called the 2004 elections," Bush said in an interview with The Washington Post.

"'The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq, and they looked at the two candidates and chose me."

[McCamy Taylor]

110. Kennedy Calls (Bush and) "Accountability Moment" "RIDICULOUS" Hahahaha

Guess we can add Sen. Ted to the list of those who want an investigation of the events leading up to the invasion of Iraq.

:P



http://edition.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/bush.iraq/

"The policy is ridiculous," Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts said.

Kennedy told CBS' "Face the Nation" that Iraq is "a disaster" and the "result of blunder after blunder after blunder."

"Until Iraqis are going to fight for their own country, we are going to have a very, very dangerous situation."

[McCamy Taylor]

111. Constructive Civil Litigation of Diebold Discussed in This Thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=287333&mesg_id=287333&page=

[McCamy Taylor]

112. Greg Palast for Special Prosecutor!

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=408&row=0

:mad: :mad: :mad: