You folks want to know what the real "problem" is with the democrats?

[Splinter Cell]

The real issue is how quickly people turn and eat their own after a "loss". Even if they really won, and just get cheated out of office, people still turn on the candidate. It makes me sick.

I've seen people on here go on and on about how Kerry is weak, and he's a loser, and blah blah blah. It's bullshit. Kerry was our best choice in 2004, and he's our best choice in 2008.

The other thing I'm tired of hearing is how Howard Dean would have been the Moses of the democratic party and parted the red sea to lead us to victory. That's bullshit too. I like the guy enough, but he would have lost....FOR REAL. Let's quit blaming John Kerry, and grow up and work together. If we can't do that, then we're not the better party afterall.

[molly]

1. Yep - you got that right!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[ExclamationPoint]

2. Correct

As I've been saying over and over again, democrats need to unite!

Edit: Also we forgot Poland! You can't expect to win if you forget POLAND!

[roseBudd]

3. I do agree that Kerry is our best choice for 2008 because now he is known

People said thay did not know who Kerry was. Kerry will continue to get press, he now has a bully pulpit.

The only candidate better positioned than Kerry would be Tom Hanks, Paul Newman or Robert Redford, and my personal favorite Sean Penn.

Michael Moore is right we need a star. Failing that we need someone everyone "knows"

[forgethell]

4. Oh, golly,

another actor as President.


:puke:

[roseBudd]

10. Sean Penn is no Ronald Reagan and I mean that in a good way n/t

[merh]

21. Not Sean, but Martin Sheen . . .

Word was he was interested in running for governor of the state of Ohio! Now an activist like that would definitely garner my financial support. I can't vote for him, but I sure would give to his campaign.

He can be governor of Ohio for 2 terms, then on to the White House!

[RC]

5. OK..., then where is Kerry?

What has he done to ensure Ohio (& other states) cleans up their act?
Has he made any public statements as to what his plans are?

The way he folded and rolled the day after the election, before the votes were all counted even, I don't think he would make a good candidate in 2008. What happened to his spine?

All I hear is excuses from his die-hard supporters.

First things first! This election needs to be cleaned up before we even think about who we want to run in 2008. Otherwise it is a waste of energy and money for anyone other than a repug to run in 2008.

[Jo March]

7. RC, you are right

So come on over to our team and help!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=262387&mesg_id=262387

[Jo March]

6. And if you want to "work together", come over to this thread

and sign up for a task.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=262387&mesg_id=262387

Throw out ideas. Make suggestions. Sign up for a task. It's easy. It's fun. It's fairly organized.

[naryaquid]

8. I agree with you in some important respects....I DO agreee that

there's a tendency to "eat our own"...which is wrong and counterproductive

...As to Kerry, I've noticed the tendency here for people to either REVERE or DEBASE him...I don't do either..I certainly DON'T think he was a "loser"...he had a lot going for him....and, he did in fact, get a hell of a lot of votes...On the other hand, I do think he made a couple of serious errors, those being the Grand Canyon remark about STILL voting for the war even THOUGH the "No WMD - No Al Queda" facts had just come in...That, I didn't get at ALL.

The other would be his slowness to answer the SWTB liars..but that, it seem, had a lot to do with a couple of poor advisors....So, in other words, maybe he wasn't the BEST candidate, but he was hardly the WORST, either

I would disagree with you on Dean, he MIGHT have lost...On the other hand, he may not not have (it's always a crap shoot, isn't it?)...I do think he has, not only the vision, but the tough style of leadership that Dems need, and that the people in this country (for better or worse) seem to like.

[mattclearing]

9. Those of us who aren't convinced we lost look at this trend and sigh.

It's depressing to watch the Party go to shit after what I think was a solid campaign effort, with record registration, excellent turnout, and probably a solid win at the Presidential level.

The fraud and stealing that likely occurred has resulted in a few interesting dynamics that I think we should all keep an eye on:

1. Bush is set to be the least popular President in living memory.

2. A large portion of the Democratic Party (particularly the leadership) quite likely wrongfully believes it did something wrong to deserve this election defeat, and is doing soul-searching rather than patting itself on the back for having employed responsible progressive strategies.

3. The media is less and less respected, as it uncritically reports the post-election demolition of Fallujah, the stunning mandate of the Republicans, the sour-grapes of the X-files Democrats, etc. How can average, fence-sitting non-partisan or independent voters respect a media when they see these same events and the media consistently draw the incorrect conclusions that they do?

These dynamics create a sort of national suspension of disbelief that depends upon faith in institutions and past performance in order to survive.

When something bad happens that can't be explained away, and the dam breaks against all of the above, you can expect some serious cultural/political upheaval, the likes of which haven't been seen since at least the early 90's, and possibly even the late 60's/early 70's.

Edit to note that I think I will repost this thought in a separate thread.

[spooked911]

16. Exactly! Great points.

Totally agree with you.

[cry baby]

19. I agree mostly, but please don't take the phrase "X-Files Democrat"

or "sour grapes"and put it into your everyday language. Just please don't use the same description that Tom DeLay used for those who believe there was fraud.

[MellowOne]

11. Hurrah!

Thank you, exactly the way I was feeling but afraid to post. Whoever ran against Bush would have lost because of election fraud, it ain't Rocket Science, folks. Kerry did what he did to not look like a whiney sore loser. He had to let others do the challenge and investigation. Kerry said he will never stop fighting for us, and I believe him. He got the shaft in the election which he probably won. He deserves another chance in 2008 with a fair election.

[marcologico]

12. agree 100% n/t

[merh]

17. Also, think about it, Kerry not there the 1st week shows his

independence and that he is not going to beg for a set on a committee or kiss their ass to do his job. On his own he has gone to Iraq to see for himself how bad things are. He knows he can't trust the WH to provide accurate information.

No, to show up would have taken the focus off of the election fraud and put it squarely on his shoulders. He did the right thing and he is showing the leaders of the 109th congress that he will not take direction from them. Get ready, its coming!

[seabeyond]

13. i agree.................maybe i dont do it cause i am not a democrat

i just want bush out and a smart hard working insightful person in the office. someone that can actually read

[spooked911]

14. I agree with everything you say except Kerry is the best choice for 2008

Let's leave our options open okay?

[merh]

15. You are so right. Thank you for this post.

Unfortunately, maturity is not always a strong suit of the posters here. They just don't get it, Kerry won more votes than any candidate, repug or dem, before him. If the weed hadn't stolen votes, he would have won more votes than anyone in history. Kerry did a tremendous job, despite the unfair advantage the media gave the idiot president over him, despite the fact that the media refused to investigate the idiot n chief or challenge him or his admin relative to so many problems with their admin and the state of nation, despite the fact that the idiot had been campaigning for 4 years and got free coverage and free campaign rallies (disquised as pep rallies) at military bases accross the country (in violation of the Hatch act).

Yep, your post is very much appreciated. :toast: thank you!

[ladjf]

18. Godfather - You have every right to voice your opinions here

on the DU. I hope that you will grant me the same respect when I say
that I strongly disagree with your entire post. I can't think of a worse political idea than to re-nominate Sen. Kerry and go through the same pattern of defeat.

You have a condescending tone when you advise those of us who have differing views about Kerry to "grow up". Are we then to presume that anyone who differs with you is automatically immature?

Please don't take this as a flame. Assuming that you are a sincere fellow DU'er, we are on the same page, which is to do whatever we can to try to re-establish Democracy in th U.S.

jimf

[flpoljunkie]

20. How right you are, Godfather. Welcome to DU!

We must focus on free, fair, transparent and auditable elections, though, or there is no hope for 2008. There may be competing Democratic bills; we must make sure the reform is what is necessary to restore faith in the results our elections.