Kerry is doing what he promised.

[Boswells_Johnson]

By making the trip to the mid-east, Kerry is speaking for those who voted for him.

It struck me that he's presenting an alternate vision of the US to the world, and in a sense, in his own way, showing the world that the US is not what * would have them believe. If he keeps it up, it could be quite exciting!

[mirandapriestly]

1. I'll bet * is seething.......nt

[Boswells_Johnson]

2. All the better!

:)

[Deja Q]

3. How? Why?

How is he speaking for us? Surely he's said enough already? So why?

Apart from feebly attempting to further his own political future (which I'm still in hysterics about), I see no point to his actions. Bush painted him with "flip-flopper" during election 2004. Kerry kept saying "never surrender" and all that. Until the next day after the election when he promptly conceded, rather definitively proving that he truly was a flip-flopper.

Kerry's forgettable.

[Boswells_Johnson]

7. Well, for instance, by meeting with the President of Syria

he's showing them (in the mid-east), that they're not dealing with a united-behind-* country.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1133263&mesg_id=1133263

[Blue_In_AK]

8. What makes you think Kerry has surrendered?

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[dkofos]

38. Concede / surrender

Same thing

[bunny planet]

26. so are you.

snooze button!

[RevCheesehead]

53. Thumper!

Ba-dum-dump! :)

[bunny planet]

57. LOL..........Thumper strikes again.

[merh]

35. Pssst, guess what!

Kerry won, they stole it!

He is not forgettable. What is forgettable (I hope, some day) are those in the party that fail to recognize that he won. If you won't accept the fact that he won then the least you can do is acknowledge that he received more votes than any other candidate before him. The true will of the people is not yet known. What is the GOP afraid of, why won't they go along with a full recount? What are they hiding?


Here is a tidbit to chew on:

The study also found that Kerry's support among Americans compared favorably to Al Gore's in 2000 -- indeed, was even greater than Gore's, despite Gore winning the popular vote against then-challenger George W. Bush.

Whereas 24% of Gore voters could have imagined voting for Bush in 2000, in 2004 only 15% of Kerry voters were willing to consider voting for anyone other than Kerry. Overall, whereas Bush 2000 voters indicated their "commitment" to Bush at an 80% level (as compared to 76% for Gore), Bush 2004 voters were actually less certain in their candidate than were Kerry voters (84% for Bush, as compared to 85% for Kerry).

http://www.nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

[cookies7]

67. I agree

but was afraid I'd get toasted.

[mattclearing]

4. Yeah, and he's getting even less coverage than he did when he

was campaigning, which is amazing.

[GreenArrow]

29. over here, true

Whats the coverage like over there?

[Roger_Otip]

65. he was just shown on channel 4 news in the UK

towering over sharon.

[seito]

5. Shadow Government?

:evilgrin:

Nah, you're right "He's just campaigning for 2008"

[saltpoint]

6. True. Bush & Co. are probably less than thrilled --

-- with this trip of Kerry's to the Middle East.

The Syrians, after meeting Kerry, must be thinking, "Jeez, this guy isn't nearly as stupid as Dubya."

Bush's foreign policy criminals hurl accusations of sanctioning terrorists and threaten sanctions, etc., and John Kerry shows up, fact-to-face, for discussion.

As problem-solving skills go, I'll take Kerry's approach.

[bunny planet]

28. not only are they not thrilled, I just saw a report (I think it was on KO)

that the * administration is sending it's own fact finding envoy, one General Luck (really his name) to Iraq in the next couple of weeks. Looks like they are threatened by Kerry's visit afterall. Unfortunately, that is the only visit that will get mainstream coverage, unless we bombard the Times with our threats to cancel the paper if they don't cover Kerry's Middle East trip.

[saltpoint]

32. You're probably right --

-- and I will take that recommendation and write to the Times today.

I love Krugman, Dowd (usually), and Bob Herbert, but the editorial board is a little stiff.

Good suggestion.

[drummer55]

9. um...no

"John Kerry and I have made a promise to the American people that with this election every vote would count and every vote would be counted. Tonight we are keeping our word and we will fight for every vote," Kerry's running mate John Edwards said in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

Yet the Kerry concession at around 11 a.m. EST suggested that the Democrats did not believe they had sufficient votes to make a difference in the overall result."


This means Kerry cared about who won and who lost. He did NOT care about the voter. You gentle reader...its all about you. John Kerry did not care about you, me or the disenfranchized. He would only care if it made a difference in the over all result.

Wake up and come to reality. Our so called "leaders" do not truly care about us because they feel they are above us, above our concerns and above our anger. We need to bring ALL of our elected officials back under the peoples power. We continue to consent to be governed without stepping forward and demanding true representation and responsibility from them.

[Boswells_Johnson]

15. Of course he didn't care about me

'cause I'm not American.

But from my perspective, there are far deep institutional issues facing the US that just election reform. Many politicians might try to creat change, but as individuals they can't. The change that is required is so profound that it's gotta be forced by the electorate.

[Sydnie]

34. Thank you!!! finally the voice of reason! n/t

[GetTheRightVote]

41. Who do you think will get the message out, but then they might lose their

sit at the Senate, to big a price to pay to get the truth out to the public isn't it. He would have got the coverage in the News to spread the word but he did not seek it or us.

:mad:

[Sydnie]

33. geesh drummer -- do you have that pat response on a macro?

That's the second thread I have seen you post the exact same words to.

At least beat a different drum if you want to continue bashing Kerry. It makes it more interesting for the "gentle readers".

Just who ARE you QUOTING here?

[hijinx87]

10. a mid-east trip would have been a MUCH better idea

before the election. maybe that would have moved 60,000 votes in ohio.

[fooj]

18. Hell- they'd have just stole them back!

They are wretched theives...at least hopefully more Americans have figured it out!

[Nikepallas]

11. WTF what about OUR voting rights? What about Jan 6th?

I will never support him for office again! I can understand not wanting another 2000 happening so he could be called another Al Gore BUT at least put up some fight. Make know the Truth of voter fraud. I bet if he held a news conference about voter fruad and spoke out STRONGLY against it the media whores could ignore the events.

[Boswells_Johnson]

25. The only way the election was going to be overturned was through

revolt. We saw in the debates that the Republicans don't give a shit, so long as they keep power. And they have a lot of money, from a lot of interest groups behind them. Everything is so partisan, including the "justice" system, that the cards are stacked.

One of the most important changes, I think, that needs to occur in DC is the outlawing of lobby groups.

[Wilms]

37. Don't mean to quote you out of context, but...

"...put up some fight..." & "...be called another Al Gore..."

[stray cat]

12. He continues to act more presidential than Bush

He is presenting an alternate visiion of the US to the world and I hope it continues. I know I will be watching.

[jmatthan]

16. If acting as a coward and betrayer is acting more presidential...

eom

[stray cat]

22. Please present sufficient evidence to overthow the election

I would love to see it!

[jmatthan]

39. Have you read the Conyers Report?

I have and the evidence is in there!!

You can take a donkey to water but you cannot make it drink. Also even the blind can choose either to see or not!!

Did Kerry have information on 3rd November 2004 to see that he had lost?

He behaved in a most cowardly way without listening to the lamenting voices of those who suffered much to vote for him or tried to but were thwarted.

That showed he was both a coward and a betrayer, besides being incompetent!!

He provided the ammunition for the Republicans to ensure that no effective challenge could be made by his election base who had been cheated.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[La Femme]

43. Conyers Report

"Have you read the Conyers Report?"

Got a link? I've yet to see this report.

[Terre]

48. Conyers Report

Main page link:
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/

PDF titled: Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf

[bunny planet]

31. Buh-bye!

:hi:

Just so you know, Kerry has never been a coward in his entire life.

Snooze button for you.

[jmatthan]

40. You are welcome

You can sleep a deep sleep with
the irrelevant "Democratic Party"!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[RevCheesehead]

54. So, Jacob, what exactly are you posting here?

You call Kerry a coward and betrayer. You call the Democratic party "irrelevant." That doesn't sound like a Democratic or Progressive supporter to me. (that's a "given" for all DU members.)

You say:

>"Did Kerry have information on 3rd November 2004 to see that he had lost?"
Yes, he, along with the rest of the world had the unofficial election results on Nov. 3. Do we NOW question these results? Yes; but that took several weeks worth of research and discussion. Hindsight is 20/20, but real time is often fuzzier.

>"He behaved in a most cowardly way without listening to the lamenting voices of those who suffered much to vote for him or tried to but were thwarted."
Burden of proof. Show me where he refused to listen, or has failed to hear of election fraud or voter disenfranchisement. Show me where his letters specifically say that.

>"He provided the ammunition for the Republicans to ensure that no effective challenge could be made by his election base who had been cheated."
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Even ignoring the first part of your sentence, it still makes no sense: "He (ensured) that no effective challenge could be made by his election base who had been cheated."

The Conyers report provides a good start, and makes a strong case for further investigating election fraud. But that information was NOT available on Nov 3. And as it stands right now, there still is not enough evidence to convict anyone of anything.

However, one thing we DO have is John Kerry as a Senator. Unlike the other Democratic Nominees who lost, he actually has a place where he can continue his work. Gore didn't. Dukakis didn't. Mondale didn't.
This man will NOT go away silently, contrary to what anyone claims. In fact, I believe that we're just getting warmed up.

[whometense]

50. Absolutely, yes!

The pictures and stories have been really moving. I love the way people have been treating him, and love the pictures of him actually sitting down and eating with our soldiers.

[GetTheRightVote]

13. Kerry should have stayed home and supported us before making

the big trip, no he is just serving himself, time to take a reality break from Kerry, who could care less about us. It is like you have a sick child at home but go to another country to get the Doctor who will fix it, lol, oh please.

:mad:

[mdb]

14. Kerry asked to preserve voting material (machines, ballots).

How is this going?

[seito]

20. Both lawsuits are still pending,

I believe.

[Lisabtrucking]

17. Kerry is acting like a president and bush like the cockroach that

invades your house and you try everything to get rid of it and it keeps showing up again.

[fooj]

19. No shit!

:puke:

[Straight Shooter]

24. The White House has now been officially declared The Roach Motel

[Sydnie]

36. Don't forget the Western Roach Motel too! LOL n/t

[ginnyinWI]

62. LOL--where did I put that can of bug spray!!! n/t

[cindyw]

21. Kerry actions must serve to show the world that not all of the US is

behind Bush and his policies. Kerry's small action can help the world to hang on just a little longer until Bush is gone. Without men like him showing the world that we are a country of diverging opinions, some may give up on us. We are in real trouble if that happens.

[YvonneCa]

23. Kerry is doing EXACTLY what he as ELECTED President

would be doing. We need to support him. Remember the video and Kerry's words to his supporters: "They want you to just go away. They are COUNTING on that." We must not let that happen. The following is from an earlier thread about how I will be supportive.




After voting for Wesley Clark in the primaries, I worked to support John Kerry in this election as I have never supported a candidate before, because after 2000, I knew the only way I could survive a similar result in 2004 was if I personally had done everything I could to prevent it. So I did. I think John Kerry did, too.

After November 2nd, while trying to understand what happened in this Presidential election, I started doing on-line research. Like many of you, I discovered the facts. I completely believe that Kerry won this election, and his actions from the beginning also show he knows it. I decided that my yard sign would stay until January 6th, when I would understand more about what had happened and could make a better decision about how to proceed. I decided my bumper sticker would stay there forever, because I want the world to know I didn't vote for this administration's planned policies (like changes to Social Security, pre-emptive war, etc.) John Kerry, in my opinion, would be an excellent president.

I watched yesterday's Electoral Vote challenge with great interest. On the positive side, I am thrilled that history was made, and that activists helped to promote that. While I was disappointed that Congressional Democrats did not vote for the challenge, I was, and am, so proud that they spoke in support of Election Reform, which should have happened after the 2000 Election. I am especially proud of Senator Barbara Boxer (from my home state of California) for being the senator to sign the challenge. Just the fact that there WAS a signed challenge this time, is a step toward the goal of fixing elections before 2008. On the negative side, we were mocked by Congressional Republicans...by both their words and actions. They don't want election reform, and I could see in their faces that they viewed this challenge as an annoyance and a joke. So the down side, for me, is I finally understand how hard this is going to be. I think John Kerry knew this from the beginning.

In John Kerry's email (way back in November) to his 3,000,000,000 on line supporters he included a videotape with the words, "They hope you will just go away...they are counting on it." When I first listened to his words, they seemed very "out-of-context" to me. I've listened to them several times since, and they fit the context of January, 2005 perfectly. While it was very disappointing to me that he seemed to be looking beyond Election 2004 and telling us (his base)what he wants us to do, after yesterday, I now see that he is right. We Democrats, liberal or moderate, are TOTALLY out of power. We have little say in Congress or in the courts, and no say in the executive branch. The only way we will be able to accomplish anything within this government, especially considering we have a broken election system, is if we do not just go away like the Republicans are counting on us to do. John Kerry said we must "stand firm" and he is right. In his most recent email to supporters (the one where he asked us to call Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist and then LET HIM KNOW WHEN WE HAD DONE SO ) Kerry has begun the fight. If we, his on line supporters, go away, Congressional Democrats will have even less success in this fight. I believe we must stay engaged and support John Kerry and Democrats (who spoke so eloquently yesterday) in their efforts.

I don't know who I'll vote for in 2008. I still think Wesley Clark is great. I like John Edwards' enthusiasm. If Al Gore ran again, I've always thought he would make a great president. Maybe John Kerry, with our support will yet surprise us all (I REALLY hope so!). But I do know I'll never vote for a Republican, and I do know I want my vote counted this time. I think Kerry IS still fighting for us and there IS something to hang on to. So no matter who I decide on for 2008, Kerry has my support until this election reform fight is won!
:)

[sabra]

42. Nice Post, and welcome to DU

[LittleClarkie]

44. Beautiful

I hope there are more who feel the same, esp. about not going away.

Your story is similar to mine. I didn't wake up properly until about April of 2004, started with Clark, and then campaigned for Kerry as I have never campaigned before. I hope I have the opportunity again, but if not him then the next candidate, even if it is Joementum or Hillary.

[Bubblie]

45. Amen...

Very well said! I agree that we need to sometimes be able to read between the lines. Your are so right about Kerry knowing very well what he was up against. I have also heard him say things that seemed at the time out of context but I still believe that there is a bigger plan. Help is on the way...it has to be. We can't take much more of what these idiots have to offer. We have to continue our fight!!! Thanks for a great post...

[DearAbby]

46. YvonneCa inspiring words, wonderful for my sagging spirit.

Welcome to DU one newbie to another. :toast: :party:

I too still believe in John Kerry.

[Klimmer]

47. I absolutely agree . . .

I'm make no apologies. I am a John Kerry loyalist. I have looked into John Kerry, a great deal. I know how good and persistant he really is. He is going to make a great President one day. I have read books, magazine articles, watched the films. I believe in all my heart that he won this election and it was stolen from him. I believe he knows that also, but we need absolute hard evidence. All the signs are there, but as we all know the Repugs are less than cooperative.

All the Kerry bashers, who want instant gratification do not understand John Kerry or the war we are in. It is not for the faint of heart.

See my other posts today about Kerry:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=264053&mesg_id=269993

He was involved in a big way Wednesday with his email to his base at just the right moment. He was involved in Thursday's contest. He made his comments a part of the record:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x264688#264688

Now he is active in the Middle East doing what he as "our" President should be doing. He does keep his word. And I believe he is working on making sure every vote will one day be counted and we will all know.

Remember, all of our efforts are being actively stonewalled, so it is going to take some time.

[Blue_In_AK]

64. I love these kinds of posts, Klimmer. Thank you.

Sometimes I think the Freepers and any other ** supporters who drop in here must rub their hands in glee when they see all the dissension and cannibalism that goes on. At this point, I think we need to realize that anyone who opposes ** in any forum -- whether it is in Congress (as John Kerry can and will do), in op ed pieces, internet blogs, whatever -- are on our side and should be encouraged, not put down because they're not doing things the way WE might want them to. We have to remain united and even pull in dissident Republicans if we want to win this war.

[Applepie]

49. Thanks

I totaly agree. John Kerry is going to do much more for this country during the next four years as senator than Bush will as *resident.

[newyawker99]

60. Hi Applepie!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Applepie]

73. Hi there

I have been in for a while. Just not very active with posting. Like everyone else here, I have had my ups and downs with the events of the past year. I have voted in every election since I turned 21 way back in 1966. I had a naive belief that my vote did count. After what happened in 2000, that changed. As I talked to other during the recent campaign, I was convinced that people were awakened to the corruption of this administration and we would see a Democratic victory. I don't ever remember feeling as depressed as I did when this didn't happen. I will do what ever I can to help save our democracy.

[ebayfool]

51. Great post !

[hijinx87]

27. and just imagine how productive

the whole "alternative view" thing would have been in, say, september.

[Boswells_Johnson]

30. There's a quote of former Canadian PM John Turner:

If I walked on water, they'd say I couldn't swim.

[bush_is_wacko]

52. You know after I recovered from the initial shock of seeing Bill Clinton

with both the * presidents, I realized that the tsunami victims probably told Shrubya to shove his initial $15 million up his $$$ and the only way he could think of to recover was to send a REAL president to seal the deal and save his reputation. I still find it appalling that * offered only $10,000 of his personal money when he and his family have enough to run a small country and Sandra Bullock, a frickin' movie actress donated a million dollars! *'s international credibility is zero right now. One of my relatives married a foreigner and travels all over the world for business and both of them have confirmed that 8 is hated on a bi-partisan international level. DUers need to keep in mind that all is not as it seems in tv news land. The Kerry thin is yet another indication or this.

[corbett]

55. Kerry Keeping Quiet To Avoid Distraction

Even though 100,000,000+ voters were defrauded on January 6, the tsunami victims legitimately are the bigger story right now. Those poor people have been wiped out. There's no other way to put it. However, life goes on and Kerry is the real President.

Look for him to drop a political bomb upon his return to the Beltway.

[bush_is_wacko]

56. Maybe, but I think time is needed to get things in order

I don't think anything will be forthcoming for a while yet.

[corbett]

58. You May Be Right

I see solid parallels to Watergate, despite what some have said on the board. I remain hopeful, however, that we won't have to wait many months into the second term to have a resolution.

My fingers and toes are crossed.

[bush_is_wacko]

59. I'm seeing few of those parallels myself

But this could be much bigger than Watergate. The Thuglicans have actually changed ethics rules to insure NOTHING gets to the public unless the accusing party has the smoking gun. If a bombshell comes it will be instantaneous and indictments will be immediate, I think. I'm not just speaking about Tom DeLay either. The worst part is that it HAS to be kept from the media and therefore you and me until it is positively confirmed and irrefutable. Otherwise they screw themselves out of time to investigate. That is why so many Dem's voted to accept the electoral votes. I can't believe how many people don't realize this.

[justice4all]

61. I think you're on to something

I'm old enough to remember Watergate. One striking similarity is the level of secrecy in both administrations. There are so many unethical and probably illegal things that * has done that it seems only a question of which one will bite him back first.

I think we should try to stay united as progressives as the stories break.

[bush_is_wacko]

70. For sure! It will take EVERY ONE OF US. To keep this ball rolling! n/t

[corbett]

69. You're Right

Anyone interested in bush_is_wacko's points should read Worse Than Watergate by John W. Dean.

Our best hope of learning details just as soon as they hit is this board.

Kudos, DU!

[bush_is_wacko]

71. I've only read excerpts of this book, but I think I need to get it ASAP!

[NationalEnquirer]

63. He is trying to look Presidential.

His concession was political, so that he didn't look whiny. He is doing these things to set himself up for 2008.

[PATRICK]

66. I wish you hadn't chosen the words

"set himself up". The game that is going on here is not one that he seems to ever have come to real grips with nor accepted the actual manner of his defeat. In other words. Clinging to step one as the frontrunner which is not currently keeping anyone alive or the Constitution protected had he REALLY been able to get his electoral victory out in public.

I know the GOP doesn't accept or take accountability for their failures either and often rise above them over our dead bodies to achieve national office against our will. Our party CAN'T operate like that so Kerry's position is politically weaker than he can probably bring himself to admit.

Teetering on irrelevance in actuality, but fighting the good fight honestly issue by issue. Admire Kerry but don't see ANY indication he can take down this miserable fraud of a permanent coup or even get its totality.

On this issue the Iraq vote may be a complete disaster or a another feeble sham to cover for Bush's next step. I hope Kerry helps to short-circuit the coming evils. I really do. But based on past experience...

[LittleClarkie]

74. I repeat, I refuse to see every last single thing Kerry does

as campaigning for 2008. That's a distortion lense. And it has been repeated every time he does something positive. Regardless of what happens in time for 2008, if he or anyone does or says something useful to further our cause, I for one am not going to shit upon it and call it campaigning or somesuch. Self-defeating.

[cindyw]

68. He's doing more than anyone before in presenting the view of those who

voted for him. After Gore lost it took him years to come out and speak for those who voted for him. In my opinion, Kerry is doing more to keep Americans safe than anyone by ensuring that our allies do not give up on us.

[tiedye]

72. Kerry's pro-Iraq war

Let's not fall into the trap of actually supporting Kerry the Corporate elite. He left Conyers high and dry. The only reason the Dems selected him is so that the war would not be an issue. The country, by a majority, does not support the war and Kerry does not have the gonads to even represent that point of view, which is why I wanted to get rid of Bush. We don't have to like him you know. The election is over, thank God. Kerry is not what the Democratic party should be. Why don't the dems support Kucinich or Sharpton or McKinney. Kerry is old news, a wash-up. He was barely better than Bush, don't forget that. Forget him. And don't even try to run Hilary. The dems need the progressives, not corporate crap heads like Kerry. He's in Iraq because his wife makes money off of US telecommunications business there.