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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 05:52 PM
Original message
I Just Got One Democratic Strategist & Commentator's Opinion
Edited on Sat Nov-06-04 06:11 PM by BayStateBoy
I sent the message below which I will send to the major news media and newspapers. I respect her advice as she has been active in Democratic causes for years and is a frequent guest on TV.

She recommended that each of us do this. In other words, no pouting permitted. We can't assume it doesn't have legs if we throw up our hands and quit. WTF DUers, WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!

Even if we can't overturn the election, we can seriously erode the Bush Presidency and give Bush 1/2 a nation at best. And as his policies continue to wrack havoc, those that voted with their Bibles and bellies will begin to use their brains and realize that nothing is more important than the bread and butter issues when you don't have them. In other words, you can't eat your Bible or gun.

I don't have permission to publish her name, but will tell anyone privately if you feel that must know.

Anyone is free to use any/all of the following comments. No need to ask. Just spread the word ASAP. Time is vital
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The mainstream news media have been spoon fed a new word by Bush/Rove. That word is "evangelical," and they are babbling it excitedly like babes at a day care to the exclusion of some very real issues impacting the Bush Presidency.

The second Bush/Rove pabulum is the Bush "mandate," also being belched along with the evangelical pill. Meanwhile, no one seems to entertain the possibility that the Bush "mandate" may mostly be an Electoral WMD.

That is not to imply that Republican grassroots efforts, moral values, the evangelical vote were important especially in Ohio. No question. Kerry was up against it in a nation voting with its Bible and belly instead of its brain. But, those issues are instantly eclipsed by the following:

1. Electronic (BBV) voting, or any voting method that does not leave a permanent paper trail which can be audited is a felony to democracy.

The legitimacy of democratic elections is predicated upon the electorate's ability to verify election results. To deny the people or any candidate the option of a recount is directly contrary to the democratic principles upon which this nation was founded. Therefore any voting method not leaving a permanent verifiable record should be eradicated forever from the American political landscape.

2. Re: Exit polling, please no more excuses or distortions. Exit polling always correlates within 2% with voting tallies. We need answers, or in the absence thereof, a serious investigation of the following facts:

a. In Election 2004 the only exit polls that did not correlate closely with voting tallies were in states using BBV or a combination of methods including electronic machines. http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388" WHY?

b. In Election 2004, in every instance where there was significant statistical discrepancy between the exit polls and the voting tallies, George W. Bush was the recipient of additional votes and never John Kerry. WHY?

WI +4B MN +7B NC +9B FL +7B OH +6B CO +4B PA +5B NH +15B
NM +3B

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000715.html
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt

***The statistical probability of a & b resulting from something other than random chance will be published shortly.

c. "The last wave of national exit polls we received, along with many other subscribers, showed Kerry winning the popular vote by 51 percent to 48 percent." http://nytimes.com/2004/11/05/politics/campaign/05poll.html

If you think that I am screaming fraud, you are missing the point. I submit that these issues should be thoroughly investigated, not in any attempt necessarily to overturn the election, but to pursue the truth which is the mainstay of any democracy and which used to be the heart and soul of news journalism.


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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think she is spot on - thanks for posting! :-)
:-)
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Loud and clear! n/t
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let us hope...
That publicly, she returns to those subjects. Loudly, too.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. She Has Guts. Often Appears Alone on FOX.
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Don't know if there was fraud or not
Edited on Sat Nov-06-04 06:28 PM by Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
I'm still waiting to be convinced but I'm listening.

Either way we have to fight *'s agenda. At the moment that's what I'm looking towards.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. I'm With You. No One Yet Knows But We Must Not Stop
We, and John Kerry, owe allegiance to at least 55 million Americans.

We have to ride this donkey for all it's worth.
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daydreamer Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. what a post
love it
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. A quote from Maya Angelou...
When someone tells you who they are, BELIEVE THEM (the first time).

In '97 I believe it was, Zibignew Brzenzki told you what it was about in his book, "The Grand Chess Game." Before him, Eisenhower in his departing speech, Smedley Butler, who foiled a similar coup, sounded clarion calls. Then there's always Abe and TJ for more remote historical perspective in your very SHORT American time-line.

Of WHAT do you have to be "convinced?" That THIEVES WILL STEAL FROM YOU given the opportunity and "plausible deniability? Have you NOT read the PNAC document "Rebuilding America's Defenses?" Are you NOT aware of CIA meddling in elections around the globe? Have you noticed CHAVEZ STILL HOLDS HIS OFFICE? Hot DAMN. How'd he manage THAT? Do you NOT believe Wally O'Dell (CEO-Diebold) when he publicly proclaims HIS job is to deliver the vote to the *dauphin? Have you NOT seen this:

http://www.electionprotection2004.org/edaynews.htm

or THIS?

Vanishing Act
by Chris Floyd
19 September 2003 +!!!NOTE THE DATE!!!+

It's a shell game, with money, companies and corporate brands switching in a blur of buyouts and bogus fronts. It's a sinkhole, where mobbed-up operators, paid-off public servants, crazed Christian fascists, CIA shadow-jobbers, war-pimping arms dealers – and presidential family members – lie down together in the slime. It's a hacker's dream, with pork-funded, half-finished, secretly programmed computer systems installed without basic security standards by politically partisan private firms, and protected by law from public scrutiny. It's how the United States, the "world's greatest democracy," casts its votes. And it's why George W. Bush will almost certainly be the next president of the United States – no matter what the people of the United States might want.

The American vote-count is controlled by three major corporate players – Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia – with a fourth, Science Applications International Corporation, coming on strong. These companies – all of them hardwired into the Bushist Party power grid – have been given billions of dollars by the Bush Regime to complete a sweeping computerization of voting machines nationwide by the 2004 election. These glitch-riddled systems – many using "touch-screen" technology that leaves no paper trail at all – are almost laughably open to manipulation, according to corporate whistleblowers and computer scientists at Stanford, Johns Hopkins and other universities.

The technology had a trial run in the 2002 midterm elections. In Georgia, serviced by new Diebold systems, a popular Democratic governor and senator were both unseated in what the media called "amazing" upsets, with results showing vote swings of up to 16 percent from the last pre-ballot polls. In computerized Minnesota, former Vice President Walter Mondale – a replacement for popular incumbent Paul Wellstone, who died days before the vote – was also defeated in a large last-second vote swing. Convenient "glitches" in Florida saw an untold number of votes intended for the Democratic candidate registering instead for Governor Jeb "L'il Brother" Bush. A Florida Democrat who lost a similarly "glitched" local election went to court to have the computers examined – but the case was thrown out by a judge who ruled that the innards of America's voting machines are the "trade secrets" of the private companies who make them.

Who's behind these private companies? It's hard to tell: The corporate lines – even the bloodlines – of these "competitors" are so intricately mixed. For example, at Diebold – whose corporate chief, Wally O'Dell, a top Bush fundraiser, has publicly committed himself to "delivering" his home state's votes to Bush next year – the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at "rival" ES&S. The brothers were originally staked in the vote-count business by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing "steering group" stacked with Bushist faithful.

Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist "Christian Reconstructionist" movement, which openly advocates a theocratic takeover of American democracy, placing the entire society under the "dominion" of "Christ the King." This "dominion" includes the death penalty for homosexuals, exclusion of citizenship for non-Christians, stoning of sinners and – we kid you not – slavery, "one of the most beneficent of Biblical laws."

Ahmanson also has major holdings in ES&S, whose former CEO is Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. When Hagel ran for office, his own company counted the votes; needless to say, his initial victory was reported as "an amazing upset." Hagel still has a million-dollar stake in the parent company of ES&S. In Florida, Jeb Bush's first choice for a running mate in his 1998 gubernatorial race was ES&S lobbyist Sandra Mortham, who made a mint installing the machines that counted Jeb's votes.
more...
http://www.doublestandards.org/floyd4.html

Or is THIS the only question that need be asked?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages/ (See Nov. 4 cover)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Bible vote is the Bush cover story.
Please don't buy into it.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. I have another way to fight back.
We in the red States are orphans we need to get someone to adopt us and represent our interests. I have no one in either the State or Federal level. I am seeking a Senator or Representative to represent me until we can get these voting messes cleaned up. See link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2620148&mesg_id=2620148&page=
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belab13 Donating Member (333 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. In other words all political contributions should be diverted to Bev
Harris and co. Which I will certainly do.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. George Soros Needs to Donate to blackboxvoting.org n/t
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Agreed - I posted something like that earlier
We need to get a couple of really big money people to write in one or two checks what thousands of us couldn't do.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Speaking of, What ever happened to DemStrategist?
The judo choppin' checkers-dissing strateegery person that was going to revel herself after the election?
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delete_bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. Yeah, who is this person?
In fact I came to your post after doing a search for the same answer. There was even a thread started yesterday asking the same question, not even one response. Must be a DU black box thing where the responses are cleared out.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Yea. The profile shows zero posts now
Will Pitt vouched for her. Maybe we should ask him?

(if he's recovered from the brickbat of a few days ago).

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OnceAndFutureTruth Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. Even Gallup says 23% thought it was not a "fair and square" win.
This result shows up on the Gallup website, albeit stated the other way around (74% think it was fair and square). This is not an exit poll, but a poll taken on November 4, 2004, two days later.
http://www.gallup.com /
(scroll down, there is a small blurb about it with a graph at bottom left of page)

Here is the thing: 23% having doubts about the results of a democratic election is a HUGE number, imho. True, its less than in 2000, and that may be why there hasn't been as much attention paid to this figure, but it does seem highly relevant. More had questions in 2000 as a result of the Gore concession, no doubt. Still, the figure is, after all, 10 TIMES the margin of error by which Bush claims to have won.

Again, I am not certain, myself. But that many people having questions seems to me a valid reason for a thorough investigation of the results. It seems very unlikely that the Republicans can effectively claim that almost one quarter of the population fits in the tinfoil hat category! (although, you never know)

Would this Gallup result help get more attention here on DU? If so, feel free to repost. I cannot top post, as I am too new.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. If Gallup Said that, Add 20-25% points to be more accurate n/t
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:11 PM
Original message
So how come now they're accepting the poll numbers
I thought the polls were in error.
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OnceAndFutureTruth Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. GALLUP says 1/4 of Americans question the results of the elections...
in a poll done AFTER the election. I think this is a poll we OUGHT to pay attention to. In a democracy, is it not a VERY SIGNIFICANT THING that SO many people think the Bush win was less than "fair and square." The point is, that WE ought to make sure this gets publicized more than it has.

Here is a strategy: Send a reference to this poll to all media outlets as a way to legitimize and thereby get more media attention for the efforts to investigate the results. Gallup is harder to ignore than we are.

Again, I am new. This seems to be important. Feel free to repost this or any of my posts, as you may feel is necessary.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. This is encouraging - thank you baystateboy! nt
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. We need to inform our own Base of the fraud.
Get our own people to know what happened before they get locked in to the BS USA media whore spin.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'm confused
What was your submission to her and what was her response to you? It's not all that clear from your post. I think I've got it figured out, but I'd appreciate it if you'd clarify nonetheless. Thanks.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. My submission is below the dotted lines. Her reply is summarized.
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. I hear ya, loud and clear...investigate, and I will donate where needed.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Mandate = BLANK CHECK (Don't let Repubs use the word "mandate")
How's that for throwing "mandate" in their face?

And this is precisely why we will find, given the chance, that bush stole votes all across the U.S., to raise the popular vote level to give him more than a 50% "win."

Funny, isn't it? He just barely squeaked by. Any bigger of a margin, and it would have looked suspicious.

What a con artist he is, Mr. Snake Oil.
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. exactly...
We must not take our eye off the ball and we must think in the long term.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick
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GoblinToe Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. I agree, the Bible vote is the smoke and mirror story


CNN is coughing this bullshit up all day long. The democrats are out of touch with middle America, Bush rallied the bible thumpers, gay rights were what sank Kerry.

BULLSHIT. CNN is starting to make me sick. Like many of you, I've simply stopped watching their cheerleading for Bush. The most trusted name in news is about as accurate as "Fair and Balanced" for Faux.

I'll admit that Kerry should have taken Clinton's advice and supported a local ban on gay marriage. Tackling gay marriage BEFORE the election wasn't helping Kerry any, and he should have left it for later.

But...the early evening exit polls were correct, and Kerry had the lead.

The crime here is the E-voting machines that leave NO PAPERTRAIL, and were somehow modified.

I am fortunate that most of my family are Democrats, and I'm making sure that every single one of them view the movie from the Votergate website--some of them are already FURIOUS.

Do not let this issue die, people. For the love of all that America stands for, we can pull this nation back together. Don't focus your hate on the Freepers, because they have a place in this country too. Focus your anger on the politicians that use the freepers and the religious fanatics that are too blind to see past the hate for "liberals" that is fed to them.

Bypass the freepers and go for heart of the matter--the source of evil. Rove. Bush. The voting fraud and stolen election.

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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Enjoyed reading your response to this good post...Agree. n/t
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