WOW, would it be possible that Kerry is ACTING IN HIS ROLE OF PRESIDENT?

[RaulVB]

He is acting as the leader of the country by attacking "*" in his weakest flank:

DIPLOMACY!

He met with the Syrian leader today, correct?

He CAN REACH PLACES WHERE "*" WOULD BE KICKED OUT!

JFK, don't tell me that you are going to beat them at their own game...CREATING REALITY!

[seito]

1. LMAO

That is what some of us have been saying all along.

[RaulVB]

8. I guess some of us are not reading your comments, sorry (n/t)

[seito]

29. Ouch

Have I offended thee?

[RaulVB]

30. No, seriously seito,

There are literally thousands of pages to read here.

Sometimes I post things already noted just because I didn't catch them the first time!

[Patsy Stone]

80. Who? LMAO! Really? He just rocks... President Kerry. :) n/t

[berniew1]

2. I talked to someone who works with Dems; they say election's not over

More later.

[Catherine Vincent]

4. Who do you think you are?

Will Pitt?

[buddysmellgood]

18. lol

[New Earth]

5. if there's any kind of 'leeway' or 'gap' legally

i wonder if there is anything possible to be done before Jan. 20th. i mean what happens if indesputable evidence of fraud is found and presented before then? Oh yippy, let's inaugurate someone when we have PROOF of fraud. I wonder.

[RaulVB]

7. Irrelevant if...

JFK is planning on running a parallel "government,"...THE REAL ONE!

[Gold Metal Flake]

86. Great!

Can't wait to see all the legislation he will get passed.

Yup.

[Greybnk48]

9. suspend the inauguration

I read today (here somewhere) that the inauguration can be suspended if information is uncovered that calls the validity of the election into question.

Did anyone else read that?? Where was it--I've read so much.

Also, I have believed for a while that Kerry will shadow Bush, perhaps to initiate a re-call election. Can we demand a re-call nationally like CA did?

[RaulVB]

12. He could even put together a "work team"...

Sort of a "Shadow Cabinet", British style...

Darn!

[buddysmellgood]

20. Yeah. Much better to go that route than to do it in congress. Sheesh

[LittleClarkie]

74. Much better to stop grasping at straws altogether

And work with what we have.

It was never going to be about flipping the election. It is about exposing the fraud and reforming the system. I would suggest taking our eyes off the inauguration. Continuing to talk about flipping the election will make talking about the fraud and reform that much harder.

I agree that Kerry can go and do the things that Bush should be doing but isn't, and make Bush look like a horse's pattottie in the process. But to think that he's plotting behind the scenes to take power as if it were some sort of coup is just fantasy.

At the very least, that would be expecting the station wagon to suddenly turn into a ferrari. Kerry was never a radical, he's not starting now at age 60. And if it would rip the country apart, he wouldn't do it.

I like this better. I'm digging the pictures coming out of the ME.

Come on people. Time to be realistic.

And if you're thinking I'm happy about that, you're crazy. Four more years is going to be torture. The best I can say is that they may just collapse under their own weight. I'm hoping for a Republican implosion. I think I already see cracks, but we shall see.

So we may as yet get that civil war, but not an American Civil War, a Republican one. Get em, fiscal Conservatives!!

[Democrat Dragon]

36. I'm curious....

Were did you hear that.

It's 11 days untill Inaguration day. Sigh...remeber long ago when someone posted here that were being like those Japanese soldiers who were deserted in islands, yet even after more than a decade staying on the island they still belived that WWII was still going on?

[Salomonity]

51. No, it's unconstitutional.

Presidential terms are four years, unless the guy is impeached. There are no recalls for federal officials.

Bush's first term is over on Jan. 20. Someone MUST be inaugurated that day. As near as I can tell, once they're in, they're in, and there's no such thing as "temporary president until we get the mess sorted out". Section 3 of the 20th amendment makes it sound as though, if the election is a total mess, congress can pick--but then that person is it for four years.

[corbett]

68. January 20th Is Not Set In Stone

Your details are correct except that January 20th is not set in stone. That's why we still have a chance.

[corbett]

65. Criminals Can't Be Sworn In

I can't point you to specific links but I remember reading Conyers saying that a delay of the inauguration was a possibility. It would be much easier with Congressman Sensenbrenner on board (which won't happen) but remains a possibility.

For weeks, my suspicion has been that Kerry would return from his trip to the Middle East and drop a political bomb. Now that we know that he was the one who asked most of his Democratic and centrist Republican colleagues not to challenge the Ohio results, it all seems to fit well.

It's a long shot but it remains a possibility to block the inauguration or at least delay it a while so that the evidence from Florida, Nevada, New Mexico and South Dakota can be exposed.

I've read several lawyers posting here that once Congress certifies the Electoral College, the inauguration must take place. That is true except that it assumes that the victor is not a criminal.

[ClayZ]

75. Shadow Government

http://www.eandgcomputers.com/peacepipe/peaceconcerts.htm

on the right hand side of the page is Jim Hinde singing Shadow Song.

You will like it!

Newbie/Clayz

[Mistwell]

37. It is an IMPOSSIBILITY for Kerry to be President for this term

The Constitution ABSOULUTELY requires that the certified electors on the 6th be used to swear in the President on the 20th. There is NO POSSIBLE GOING BACK. NONE. There is no possible Constitutional provision that could allow Kerry to be sworn in for this term. Even if it were found that Bush got zero votes, shot his opponant, and isn't even a citizen of the US. You could impeach him, and then Cheney would take over. You can rule that he is not qualified under the Constitution to be President, and then Cheney would take over. However, once electors are certified, it goes by order of Presidential Sucesssion, and Kerry is so far down that list that it would take something near nuclear war to reach him.

[Democrat Dragon]

38. Actually there is ONLY ONE WAY

And it seems there is a .00000000000001 of it happening.

It's if 50 million take to the streets.

[henslee]

41. Ahhh, threads like this are exercises in deslusion.

[RaulVB]

87. "Delusional" is to believe that "*" "won" (n/t)

[henslee]

90. This is true, too. I am just so over it. Ready to focus on whatever

election reform/ damage control is possible before 2006. It is right around the corner. I have a feeling we have no idea what "worked over feels like but we will if we don't get it together.

[Mistwell]

82. Nope - even 100% of the population taking to the streets wouldn't do it

The law remains the law. No amount of protest, WITHOUT a Constitutional amendment or other change, will change it. It doesn't matter how many protesters there are if the protest isn't an amendment or some level of revolution that ends the Constitution.

[RaulVB]

6. Keep us posted, please! (n/t)

[Liberty Belle]

11. How high up is their source?

[Amaryllis]

14. Huh? More when later? Are you going to start a thread? How will we find

the more later when it happens?

[Farmgirl]

61. What????? n/t

[snot]

3. Perform the job you want

Esp. when the one who's got it, isn't.

they try to create reality by talking. they want us to read their lips, not their actions.

but actions speak louder than words . . . at least eventually . . . at least I hope so.

[Karenca]

10. very interesting concept :) .....nt

[tridim]

13. I like it too.. Has it ever been done throughout history?

[RaulVB]

16. Not in the USA...

The British have a "Shadow Cabinet" sort of a parallel non-official government apparatus. The head is the leader of the opposition party, so, when new elections take place, if the opposition party wins can take over immediately in a very smooth transition.

Now, the kick is that the model works very well also in...TIMES OF UNEXPECTED AND GRAVE POLITICAL CRISIS!

[Sannum]

15. This could be an interesting four years.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

17. yea,yea,yea

I will believe it when I see it.

[RaulVB]

19. What if he claims the leadership of the Democrats?

What if he takes Reid's desired position in a "direct hit"?

[KittyWampus]

46. Reid Is Head Of Senate Dem's. Kerry Wouldn't Want That Role Would He?

It's essentially a "step down".

And also a lot of strategy making and stuff.

[LittleClarkie]

53. He doesn't need literal leadership, he has defacto

I'm using terms I'm unsure of, so hopefully that's the right one. He is considered one of the party's leaders according to more than one story I read. Some say he already squandered the good feelings. But hell, the Senate hadn't even reconvened yet.

It should be interesting to watch this year.

Meanwhile, I'm just glad that the soldiers he meets has someone to take their complaints and problems and frustrations to with hopes that he can do something about them, esp. the poor Guard. They're being jerked around terribly. I hope it's helping them to see him front and center.

[Greybnk48]

21. You're no fun, you fall right over n/t

[understandinglife]

22. He's now in the West Bank observing an ELECTION!!!

Current, as of 2312 PST, 8 Jan 2005 Google search:

Kerry travels to West Bank for Palestinian election
San Francisco Chronicle, CA - Jan 7, 2005

Kerry to Visit West Bank Polling Place WJLA

Kerry travels to West Bank for Palestinian election KVOA.com
Saturday Globe Myrtle Beach Sun News
all 79 related »

=========
How interesting.....

"When Did Bush Know?"

[RaulVB]

23. Yes!...You know how much legitimacy has he gained already?

Just by being there among the Arabs, the Palestinians!

[havocmom]

26. Legitimacy, now there's something to ponder.

What happens if enough of the world simply refuses to consider the bush* administration as the legitimate government of the US? Isn't there precedent of us refusing to acknowledge leaders in other countries when their 'election' was considered fraudulent?

What would happen if other nations just put us on ignore? DOD can't invade everybody that pisses bush*/Cheney off.

[understandinglife]

33. I think a bunch of them hit the 'ignore' button already; and little news..

...items like this are not going to induce any of them to reconsider:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x271639

Be sure to check out www.velvetrevolution.us on Monday, 10 Jan 2005.

Peace.

[havocmom]

35. Will check out that link come Monday. Thanks for the headsup

:hi:

[meganmonkey]

44. Great reference - The Velvet Revolution

Spent some time in Prague a few years ago and had some great conversations about it. That's the way to do it!! The freshness of democracy there was almost tangible.

It's bookmarked!

[Farmgirl]

63. say Understandinglife, can you tell us more about the

velvetrevolution? In the mean time, I've saved it to my 'favorites'... what in particular should we be looking for?

Thanks for the 'heads up'.

[understandinglife]

69. They should open the site tomorrow......

....when that happens I'll post a notice.

Peace.

[fooj]

59. I respectfully agree!

Something feels very different about Kerry...and his diplomacy...and his silence...and his willingness to be CHEATED without so much as a whimper...sounds to me like this has been planned for a very long time. Just wish we had a clue as to what that man was really up to! Time will tell!

[flpoljunkie]

52. Photo of Senator John Kerry meeting today with Ahmed Queria in West Bank

Former U.S. presidential candidate Senator John Kerry (D-MA), an election observer, meets Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qurie (R) in the West Bank city of Ramallah January 9, 2005. Palestinians voted on Sunday for a successor to Yasser Arafat and looked likely to elect Mahmoud Abbas, a pragmatist who has promised to revive a peace process with Israel after years of bloodshed. REUTERS/David Furst
Reuters - Jan 09 3:10 AM

[LittleClarkie]

55. When he's talking to leaders, they have this look on their faces

that they rarely have with Bush. Remember the Bush summit?
These people look glad to be talking with him.

[flpoljunkie]

57. Yes, and I would surmise it is because they like and respect John Kerry.

[ginnyinWI]

66. I've noticed how they are refering to him as

"former U.S. presidential candidate" whenever they do an article on him. This has got to be a huge boost for him--just to be a former presidential candidate is indeed nothing to sneeze at. And remember, 85% of the world did want him to win. He'll have the attention of a lot of people, will be able to be our shadow president, and be a big pain to Bushco.

[understandinglife]

70. Great picture; and notice that only the Palestinian flag is on the table.

[Misskittycat]

78. A key point is that all of these Middle East leaders are meeting with him!

This is very important. The King of Jordan and the President of Syria, etc. are agreeing to meet with Kerry and making the visit highly visible.

Often, the leader of a country will be conveniently busy or absent, when an unofficial representative of a foreign country comes to call. Here, they are being conspicuously "at home" and welcoming to Kerry. The symbolism of this is quite interesting.

[buddysmellgood]

24. YEAH! Just like Al Gore acted in his role!!! Gosh!

[RaulVB]

27. Kerry will not act like Gore (n/t)

[buddysmellgood]

31. Hope you're right. Not a significant difference so far.

[RaulVB]

32. OK, but don't forget that Gore was virtually cornered by the DLC

This "cannibalism" will stop right here and now with Kerry.

That is his move. He is not done, in fact, he hasn't even started yet!

[KittyWampus]

47. Kerry & Gore Are Two Different Political Animals

only simliarity that comes to mind is their capacity to assimilate and process lots of info.

[Bill Bored]

25. Interesting, but it could be just another tin foil hat sort of thing.

Remember, JK's supporters, including me, just raised a bunch of money for the USO. Nothing wrong with that of course, but it makes sense for him to at least go and visit the troops and give them a dose of TRUTH too.

If someone knows something that could bring down the Admin. before or after the inaugural, it would only be reasonable to set up a "transition team" of some sort. But it would have to be an open and shut case, like a hand recount in Ohio might provide if we could get one. In this event, the Shrubsters would want to contest some other states, or do something else to keep him in the game, unless the lid is blown completely off. It's pure speculation, but it would be nice, wouldn't it? Discredit Shrub while forgiving Kerry of all his post-election sins at the same time. Wishful thinking at it's best. Nothing wrong with wishing though.

[RaulVB]

28. Yep, nothing wrong with it...

I'd like to see Kerry challenging Reid's "leadership" in the Senate.

Kerry has said already that "he will try to fill the power vacuum in the Democratic Party..."

[KittyWampus]

48. Okay, Reid's Job Is To Steer The Senate Democrats. He Is NOT The

'head' of the Democratic Party.

[marcologico]

34. shit I hope so in case there's another tsunami that Fox doesn't cover n/t

[Buck_Fush]

39. kerry threw the fight, laid down, played dead, he is trash, done with him

[sportndandy]

40. He should be. He is MY President.

Fuckin A Right!!!!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

42. lol! Actually Al Gore is still my President until Jan 20th. Then

Kerry. ;)

[lonestarnot]

43. Me too!

Love Al

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

45. I adore him! The speeches he has given through Moveon

are some of the best I have ever heard. Perhaps it is the freedom of not having to account to anyone but himself that allows him to speak the beautiful Truth.

This is a man who's heart, mind and spirit are in the absolutely perfect place. :)

[Catamount]

56. Well said, mine too!

[sportndandy]

81. Of course except for good ol Al.

Oh who am I kidding. The guy was a shmuck who actually did run a poor campaign (unlike Kerry) HE never should have distanced himself from President Bill. He deserved what he got, even if the country didn't.

[loudsue]

89. You're forgetting: GORE WON, TOO!!

And with all the evidence I've seen during the original BBV research threads on DU, the bush mafia probably had the machines cranked up that time, too!

:kick::kick::kick:

[burn the bush]

49. I believe Kerry is acting solely for his own political gains

which he will never see. I believe that his "political correctness" of trying to appease us by being forced to join in the lawsuits while his lawyers worked against, and his decision to mostly stay out of this fight cost him any chance of being the president of the US. And rightly so. We don't need a fair weather president.

[marcologico]

50. so is howie wowie only hs gains are our loss, n/t

[Kansas Wyatt]

54. Assuming Congress Accepted The Vote Count.

And an objection was raised by both sides of Congress that specifically charged election fraud occurred in Ohio, which would presumably flip Ohio and provide a different outcome. The objection was overruled due to lack of evidence, but the objection was still made and put in the official record as lacking evidence to support the charge of election fraud.

Now, if evidence of election fraud is uncovered at a later date relating to the specific charges in Ohio, could the objection that previously lacked the uncovered evidence, that was entered on the official record, open any avenues to legally correct the outcome of the election at a later date?

I mention this because in the 2000 election, it was indeed discovered that Gore actually would have and did win the election after Shrub had been sworn in as pResident. The story was that it was too late to correct the final result and outcome, because Congress accepted and approved, without an objection recorded in the official record, the wrong results and Shrub was sworn in pursuant to the Constitution.

[glitch]

72. That is a very good question. nt

[emlev]

76. very interesting exception

I'd love to hear some legal opinions on this.

[Mistwell]

83. No - the election cannot be overturned now

Once the electors voted, there is no possible way to go back and change the vote. Even if fraud is conclusively proven...even if Bush is found to have had zero votes, killed his mother in public, isn't a US citizen, is found to be under the legal age to run for President, and is a space alien in disguise sent to conquer the planet...you STILL cannot change the electors to Kerry. The Presidential line of sucession would instead kick in, making some other Republican the President. Once the vote for electors took place, it was set in stone.

[MoonRiver]

58. He's running for the 2008 nomination, and THAT IS ALL!

IF he wanted to be president this time, he'd have fought the criminals. He didn't. He conceded and shows no signs of unconceeding. Despite the brave and historic actions of a few, our stupid pink tutus in Congress certified * with gusto and aplomb. It's all over but the shouting, hopefully during the counter inauguration. I'm looking forward to hearing Sharpton speak, if he isn't so disgusted by the Democratic wusses he refuses to participate.
:thumbsdown: to the delusion that John Kerry is still in the ring "fighting", LOL, for us!

[marcologico]

60. still beats snoozing through a tsunami in Crawford. n/t

[MoonRiver]

62. True, but the issue isn't how much better Kerry is than *.

That has always been a given. I simply don't believe that Kerry is going to lift a finger anymore regarding the 2004 election. Whatever people's current impressions of him are, and I personally expect a lot better nominee next time if Dems want my vote, he has quit fighting for this year's presidency. It is obvious and I think we should move on and get into reality. I know its hard, but continuing what amounts to a search for the mythical unicorn is a futile waste of time.

[marcologico]

67. When you find the missing 3.5 million votes, let us know. Meantime

repeat after me: the election is over, we lost. We also got screwed by crooks but there are legal remedies Kerry is pursuing, don't worry.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

64. and My Pet Goat....

and trying to dismantle our country, and trying to conquer other countries like some gdamn medieval inbred dictator...etc. etc. etc.

[YvonneCa]

71. My thoughts, exactly!

This is something I posted in another thread:


"They hope you will just go away, they are COUNTING on it."



...John Kerry, in email to his supporters.

After voting for Wesley Clark in the primaries, I worked to support John Kerry in this election as I have never supported a candidate before, because after 2000, I knew the only way I could survive a similar result in 2004 was if I personally had done everything I could to prevent it. So I did. I think John Kerry did, too.

After November 2nd, while trying to understand what happened in this Presidential election, I started doing on-line research. Like many of you, I discovered the facts. I completely believe that Kerry won this election, and his actions from the beginning also show he knows it. I decided that my yard sign would stay until January 6th, when I would understand more about what had happened and could make a better decision about how to proceed. I decided my bumper sticker would stay there forever, because I want the world to know I didn't vote for this administration's planned policies (like changes to Social Security, pre-emptive war, etc.) John Kerry, in my opinion, would be an excellent president.

I watched yesterday's Electoral Vote challenge with great interest. On the positive side, I am thrilled that history was made, and that activists helped to promote that. While I was disappointed that Congressional Democrats did not vote for the challenge, I was, and am, so proud that they spoke in support of Election Reform, which should have happened after the 2000 Election. I am especially proud of Senator Barbara Boxer (from my home state of California) for being the senator to sign the challenge. Just the fact that there WAS a signed challenge this time, is a step toward the goal of fixing elections before 2008. On the negative side, we were mocked by Congressional Republicans...by both their words and actions. They don't want election reform, and I could see in their faces that they viewed this challenge as an annoyance and a joke. So the down side, for me, is I finally understand how hard this is going to be. I think John Kerry knew this from the beginning.

In John Kerry's email (way back in November) to his 3,000,000,000 on line supporters he included a videotape with the words, "They hope you will just go away...they are counting on it." When I first listened to his words, they seemed very "out-of-context" to me. I've listened to them several times since, and they fit the context of January, 2005 perfectly. While it was very disappointing to me that he seemed to be looking beyond Election 2004 and telling us (his base)what he wants us to do, after yesterday, I now see that he is right. We Democrats, liberal or moderate, are TOTALLY out of power. We have little say in Congress or in the courts, and no say in the executive branch. The only way we will be able to accomplish anything within this government, especially considering we have a broken election system, is if we do not just go away like the Republicans are counting on us to do. John Kerry said we must "stand firm" and he is right. In his most recent email to supporters (the one where he asked us to call Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist and then LET HIM KNOW WHEN WE HAD DONE SO ) Kerry has begun the fight. If we, his on line supporters, go away, Congressional Democrats will have even less success in this fight. I believe we must stay engaged and support John Kerry and Democrats (who spoke so eloquently yesterday) in their efforts.

I don't know who I'll vote for in 2008. I still think Wesley Clark is great. I like John Edwards' enthusiasm. If Al Gore ran again, I've always thought he would make a great president. Maybe John Kerry, with our support will yet surprise us all (I REALLY hope so!). But I do know I'll never vote for a Republican, and I do know I want my vote counted this time. I think Kerry IS still fighting for us and there IS something to hang on to. So no matter who I decide on for 2008, Kerry has my support until this election reform fight is won!

Note: 1/9/05 As we watch John Kerry during his Middle East tour, it is clear that he is doing EXACTLY what he would be doing as the ELECTED President of the United States. We need to support him.

:loveya:

[seabeyond]

73. especially as the trip progresses and we see who he is meeting

interesting the progression. jordon, kuwaite, throughout iraq, syria and now palestien

will se as it progesses what it creates. more than bush could do

[musette_sf]

77. I could see * in Jordan

telling King Abdullah what a credit to his race he is, and how he loves his restaurants.

[regularjoe]

79. LaRouche met with Middle East leaders before the primaries.

I'm not convinced that an intricate, long created, amazing plan is in the works. I'd certainly be excited to find out that is true but I've read too many posts suspecting that every little thing Kerry does is part of some grandiose scheme to attack at just the precise moment which is perpertually in the future.

This post probably isn't going to brighten your day. Sorry about that.

regularjoe

what are they hiding?

[kitkat65]

84. Where's that "most of us really don't like you, now get the fuck out"

clause when you need it?

[Matariki]

85. I've been thinking this too!

And we should support President Kerry and ignore that war criminal impostor *! Wouldn't it be great if the rest of the world - and world leaders - did the same thing?

hey, i can dream, can't i?

[illuminaughty]

88. What do you do when your prez is a war criminal?

How long is that list of high ranking military officials and ambassadors who came out against Bush?

Are we ready for a coup of some sorts? (not a fake election coup like we just witnessed)

We sure would have a vast majority of the world ready to support it.