How come Edwards didnt deliver North Carolina to the Democrats?

[The Sushi Bandit]

Wasnt that one of the reasons he was on the ticket??

[txindy]

1. Maybe that was the reason, although nationwide appeal was more valuable

That's my opinion, though. But, in light of the numbers coming out of NH, OH, and FL, I would love to see the voting data for NC. I can't remember how close it was there and I'm too tired right now to look for it. If it was close, I'd certainly like to check into it a bit more.

[genius]

22. Red candidates don't pull in Red states.

[disenfranchised]

2. see Blackboxvoting.org

[NC_Nate]

4. well....

He was running against Jesus Himself...:)

[DieboldMustDie]

3. Oh! I don't know. Could the vote count possibly have been rigged?

:shrug:

[askew]

5. Truthfully, I wonder why he ended up on the ticket.

I believe the idea was to appeal to rural and southern voters, but there was never really a belief he would carry NC. And most believed he would not have won re-election for his Senate seat. I guess he added regional balance to the ticket, but he was seen as a light-weight by many with only 1 term in government. Also, traditionally, VPs are supposed to attack dogs for the ticket and Edwards didn't get the job done their either, so Kerry took a lot of hits in August on the Swift Boats that Edwards could have defended better. He ended up to be pretty useless actually.

Now, I hear talk of him being DNC Chair or running for President in 2008. I think he would be better off getting some more governing experience before trying to run for President again, but that is just my opinion.

[tedoll78]

6. Just my opinion..

but to me, the only real duty of a vice presidential candidate should be to:
1) have a pulse,
2) not hurt the ticket,
3) The Biggie: deliver his/her state's otherwise-unlikely electoral votes.

I hope we remember this in 2008.

[mzmolly]

35. Edwards was muffled, and ... he was chosen because Democrats wanted

him on the ticket (poll after poll showed Dems wanted Edwards.) He was a great choice.

[Skwmom]

42. Dems wanted him on the ticket because the corporate

press pushed for Edwards (just like the corporate press deemed Kerry the most electable). Unfortunately, the Dems didn't have one leader who would go out and make the case that we shouldn't let the corporate press/Republicans pick the Dem ticket.

[aquart]

7. What makes you think he didn't?

Was there a paper trail?

[robbedvoter]

8. Identical percentage as in 2000. Bushies crossed over in primaries

to build him up,(and sabotage better candidates) voted in polls, pressured "if you want money, get him". Later gloated on TV shows: "man, dems, Kerry are gullible"
I have numbers and documents and links for all that, but I'm too tired to go there.
Suffice to say, we were robbed in many creative ways.

[bullimiami]

9. fraud......................he did.................

[kitchen girl]

10. I asked a friend in NC just this question.

Her response was, "Well, Edwards just isn't popular here in North Carolina because he's an attorney and he doesn't represent Christian values. No one in North Carolina would vote for him." Eek. I've known this woman for almost eight years, and that's the first time I'd heard such zealotry out of her. :shrug:

[Pastiche423]

25. My father

who has lived in North Carolina all of his life and was a Democratic politician in Mecklenburg County for many years said the same thing.

Edwards did squat for his constituents.

[Guava Jelly]

11. better yet why didnt he run in north carolina?

why didnt graham run in florida again

they both knew the dangers of losing those 2 seats

[jacksonian]

14. Graham is one that got me

if he was willing to serve the country as Pres, why unwilling as Senator?

[The Sushi Bandit]

16. Would not Graham as VP have helped in Florida??

[CAcyclist]

31. Was this all for show?

Here's a heretical thought - did the DNC even plan on winning?(And, no I'm not talking about any bizarre 2008 plot)

Could the party chairman (without the candidates being in on it) have a gentlemen's agreement with the repubs to just go through the motions and then get some crumbs from the repubs when Bush is reelected?

Nevermind, it's late, I'm getting paranoid.

[Skwmom]

43. In an audio book about H. Clinton, the author claimed that

the Clintons received a call about the 92 election and were told if they would back off and give it to Bush they would get a free pass in 96.

[Bread and Circus]

12. Uh....I never expected he would help one bit, anywhere

[BernieBear]

36. John Edwards is the future

I don't know what Senator Kerry expected of John Edwards. I know there wasn't a lot of news about him and I know Tweety would say "we haven't seen him". But I heard he spent a lot of time campaigning and that he was terrific in those campaign meetings and events with people across the nation.

I think Senator Edwards is one of the "future of the party" guys. He's charismatic, smart, likeable, has a terrific smile, a gorgeous family, a smart wife who is totally a heavy hitter in her own right.

And importantly he's young. He could have another 20 years in politics unlike Senator Kerry or some of the other prospective VP's. So this run sets him up with name recognition for the future.

Senator Edwards, IMHO, needs to take his two America speech and re-work it. Yes, two America's AND the Democratic party is the one that teaches and supports you how to get from the one America to the other America where it also supports you in maintaining that success. The Repugs are the golden spooners (or silver spooners) while the Democrats are the successful, galvanized, spiritual (not "religious) group who are successful and teaching and helping those who are not yet successful how to be successful.

Senator Edwards is cheerful and we need cheerful and upbeat and positive. We really need that in this country. We don't need Cheney's dark vision of the world; or the Christian Fundamentalists desire for Armageddon so they can die and be risen (hey guys! heaven and hell exist right here on earth and God is all around us, in us, through us and between us). We need a FUTURE. That's the most depressing thing to me (and as you all know tonight I'm depressed) is since GWB has taken oath in 2000 I feel as though we have no future because there is no positive vision for the future.

The only vision we have is war with Iraq, war with Iran, war with Syria, war with N. Korea, war between China and Taiwan, war with Russia, war on the dollar, and oh... did I mention war? That's no future. That's futility. You can't KILL OFF the terrorists. Why are they terrorists? We have to begin with the children. Well I started with John Edwards and now I'm into my pet theories on terrorists so I guess I should end this rant. Thank you for "listening"!!

BernieBear

P.S. Good gosh, can you imagine John Edwards and Barack Obama together? The sparkle from both of their smiles (and teeth) alone would blind you! What a duo!!!!

[RevCheesehead]

37. Edwards did very well in WI during the primaries.

His message about jobs and economics really hit home to a lot of people. Of course, you could argue that since Dean and Clark had decided to pull out of the race, they might have faired better. (Personally, I was leaning towards Clark, but ended up voting for Edwards)

I was thrilled that Kerry chose Edwards. Good charisma, excellent public speaker...and pretty easy on the eyes, as well!

[ithacan]

13. absolutely not

no one seriously though he'd deliver North Carolina. He was supposed to help among voters in border states and swing states and those who like populism.

The Dems did take the vote of a majority of those 18 to 29 in North Carolina (and Virginia), and other border states, by the way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26214&mesg_id=26214

[BeFree]

15. Funny numbers from NC

I got these numbers from the NC website. It took me hours to get this far. I need help. I am also trying to get set to file some kind of protest this week. Someone, HELP!


Top line is votes from 2000 Gore and b=bush
"County name" "Unofficial 2004 results" "Approximate Gain from 200"

Just look at the increases bush had, up to 4 times the dem increase in percent. If someone can crunch these numbers more, mucho apprecio. IMO, these numbers are as bad as some in Fla.

"County name" "Candidate" "2004" "App. Gain"
13188 Gore 2000 15427 b
"BRUNSWICK","John F. Kerry / ,14809, + 1600
"BRUNSWICK"," Bush / 22819, + 7400

1187 Gore 2000 1628 b
"CAMDEN","John F. Kerry / ,1329, + 150
"CAMDEN"," Bush / 2271, + 650

38626 Gore 2000 38129 b
"CUMBERLAND","John F. Kerry ,44328, + 6000
"CUMBERLAND"," Bush / 48042, +10000

16199 Gore 2000 35387 b
"DAVIDSON","John F. Kerry / ,17117, + 950
"DAVIDSON"," Bush ,41893, + 6500

19281 Gore 2000 39453 b
"GASTON","John F. Kerry / ,14625, - 4500 ***this is puzzling
"GASTON"," Bush / 33139, - 6300

5017 Gore 2000 3439 b
"HOKE","John F. Kerry / ,5663, +600
"HOKE"," Bush / 5180, +1700

8412 Gore 2000 15951 b
"LINCOLN","John F. Kerry / ,9318, + 900
"LINCOLN"," Bush / ,,19878, +4000

10269 Gore 2000 19657 b
"ONSLOW","John F. Kerry / ,10996, + 700
"ONSLOW"," Bush / ,25352, + 5500

30921 Gore 2000 17930 b
"ORANGE","John F. Kerry / ,42683, + 11700
"ORANGE"," Bush / 20673, + 2800

6415 Gore 2000 7661 b
"PENDER","John F. Kerry / ,6928, + 500
"PENDER"," Bush / 9917, +2200

11366 Gore 2000 30959 b
"RANDOLPH","John F. Kerry / ,12575, + 1200
"RANDOLPH"," Bush / 37109, + 6000

17834 Gore 2000 11721 b
"ROBESON","John F. Kerry / ,17172, - 700 ***lost votes?
"ROBESON"," Bush / ,15471, +3700

13260 Gore 2000 18979 b
"ROCKINGHAM","John F. Kerry / ,14068, + 800
"ROCKINGHAM"," Bush / 22450, + 3500

8768 Gore 2000 10410 b
"SAMPSON","John F. Kerry / ,9389, +600
"SAMPSON"," Bush / ,12374, +2000

5,627 Gore 2000 3,740 b
"SCOTLAND","John F. Kerry / ,6330, + 700
"SCOTLAND"," Bush / ,5097, + 1300

I know some of Approximate gain numbers are off, that's why I need help. I also have all the numbers of all the races, but the format from the state is hell to navigate, (Surprise!), if anyone wants to help, please let me know.

[shraby]

17. What is the link to the results?

[BeFree]

26. Link to results

ftp://www.sboe.state.nc.us/enrs/pricounty.txt

Updated recently

Caveat: There are almost 6,000 lines. Try this link for the SBOE

http://www.app2.sboe.state.nc.us/index.html

[TalkingDog]

20. I'm from NC

And most of the people I am close to would be more than happy to sign petitions. Unfortunately I'm in Iredell.

But we know folks around the state and our friends have friends etc.

Get in touch with me.

[e-mail]

[jmowreader]

27. About Gaston County

Voting Technology: E-Voting: Touchscreen

Vendor: Diebold Election Systems

Model: AccuVote TS-R4

Software: 1.17.17

Firmware: 1.94w

Tabulation Description: Unknown: Machines do have modem capability

Data Source: Don Wright, General Counsel for NC BOE 919-715-5333, [e-mail], http://www.app2.sboe.state.nc.us; County BOE: 704-864-4852

Last Verified: 10/12/2004

[Greylyn58]

34. These Are The Figures For My County In NC

Results: Charlotte/Mecklenburg

Democrat
John F. Kerry and John Edwards
total - 167083
52%

Republican
George W. Bush and Dick Cheney
total - 154279
48%

Libertarian
Michael Badnarik and Richard Campagna
total - 972
0%

[Iceburg]

41. I can help you get the numbers into a spreadsheet or db

very quickly but where did you get the 2000 results.

Do they also have the ballot type (paper, accuvote etc) by precinct on the web site?

Ida posted these results for New Hampshire ... very interesting indeed when you look at the trends.
http://www.invisibleida.com/New_Hampshire.htm

On Edit: Found the 2000 results and much more!

[yo-yo-ma]

18. Gore didn't carry Tenn in 2000

The more important question is why he didn't also run for senate re-election.

[Cha]

19. AGain..there were problems

with the voting machines in Tennessee..I'm not so sure Gore didn't carry his home State.

[Mira]

21. How come Edwards didnt deliver North Carolina to the Democrats?

I live in NC and I think it was too close to call.
I drove around with 14 different anti Bush messages on my tailgate, and got more up thumbs than down, and found supportive notes under the windshield.
I think NC was messed with in the counts, I feel quite certain that the major metropolitan areas, Charlotte, Asheville, Durham, Raleigh, Winston-Salem were blue.
I was involved, I marched, I know the amounts of all kinds of people who worked tirelessly.
Edwards was not chosen to deliver NC - but to deliver folksy, heart-felt speeches and connect with the people. He is good at it and very smart, you saw that in his debate with Cheney. He cleaned his clock.

[Riddler]

23. NC hasn't voted Democratic since Jimmy Carter

I'm from NC and am ashamed that this state is continually a red state. This is the 7th straight General Election that we've voted for the Republican candidate. Also, you've got to admit that any state who would elect and re-elect the disgusting likes of a racist hate-mongering divisive anti-democracy POS like Jesse Helms to 5 terms in the US Senate can't exactly be depended on to show any intelligence when it comes to making decisions that affect us nationally. Edwards shouldn't be blamed for not delivering something that was undeliverable to begin with.

[lessthanjake]

24. Edwards was never expected to carry NC

unless kerry really pulled ahead.

He was expected to force the republicans to spend money in states they normally wouldnt have to. He succeeded marginally in that.

But he was more picked for national appeal.

[vickie]

28. Because he's an over rated light weight (nice guy) who was not

ready for post 9/11 Presidential politics.

[noiretextatique]

30. but amazingly, he more than held his own against cheney

the supposed heavyweight of the * team.

[Mist]

29. Not all that surprising

I'm not a native of NC. Been living here for a few years. There's a certain hardcore base that repeatedly voted Jesse Helms into office. I remember some of his radio ads, and they were rank appeals to bigotry and ignorance, and he had several terms as senator. The state has some blue areas (I'm in one) but it hasn't changed all that much from Helms' time.

[BernieBear]

32. Look at the Chart of the Exit Poll vs. Tally

It looks to me like they dropped a hell of a lot of Kerry/Edwards votes off and added a LOT of Bush/Cheney votes. I wouldn't count any of the election results as indicative of ANYTHING other than Karl Rove's ability to ensure an election result one way or another.....

BernieBear

[KoKo]

33. There was "funny business" in NC. I worked for Kerry/Edwards we were

amazed at the support for them here in Wake County (one of the largest).

My precinct didn't seem to have problems but "Opti-Scan" is widely used in NC even with paper ballots and some counties use "Touch Screen."

I think the Repugs stiffed us with the "Early Voting." I know of people who stood in line for hours with Early Vote but when they got to the polling sign in were told they were all out of ballots for their Precinct. The sherrif (RW Repug who squeaked in at the mid-terms) was responsible for "driving" the ballots to the precinct. How long did it take for the "new ballots to get there when the Sherrif/Repug has to get them there. One voter was told to leave and come back later after she'd waited over two hours with her toddler who was hungry. Others had a similar experience.

Yet, the word was from our Dem Headquarters to get our Dem vote out early for Early Vote. On Nov. 2nd we had a very light turn out...after most Dems (possibly) had been turned away from polls after waiting for hours for the above reason, or couldn't wait two to four hours to vote.

There were incidents like that all over Wake. Not enough polling places for the "Early Vote" and folks being cautioned by our Dems that election day would have longer lines...yet it didn't.

There are lots of ways to reduce vote, discourage vote and fraud vote.

Take your pick.

I think NC did vote for Kerry/Edwards...I do.

[DulceDecorum]

38. What Edwards giveth,

Diebold taketh away.

[LightTheMatch]

39. Don't think so

I never thought he could do that, and I never thought that's why he was on the ticket.

[oldmanpeacenik]

40. A couple things

I lived in NC for many years. In fact, I moved away not that long ago, so Edwards was my senator for a couple years.

I have to say that the man didn't do a whole hell of a lot, or if he did we didn't hear much about it. I don't think NC voters really knew him. He's only a one-term Senator, after all. Not much time to build up a reputation. We don't hear much from Liddy Dole either, for that matter. I wrote to both of them several times and didn't get letters back. Bad move--ol' Uncle Jesse Helms was a bastard for sure, but you'd almost always get a letter, even if he was disagreeing with you. People respected that--heck, I did. At least you could know where the man stood.

There was also some resentment that Edwards ran off to run for President. It got worse when he decided not to run again. Made it seem like he didn't really give a damn about us or our state--like we were just a stepping stone on a way to higher things. Hell, a lot of Dems were pretty pissed off, in part because it opened his seat up for a Repub to capture it (and sure enough, that's what happened).

Wake is heavily Dem and has been for a while, I think. So are Orange and Durham (college towns) and the counties around Charlotte. But they're not emblematic of the state as a whole. It's a different state when you start driving out into the red counties. Hell, some of the folks who live there say that Orange and Durham are part of the north for all intents and purposes. Duke (in Durham) gets called "The University of New Jersey in Durham."

Also, though I hate to say it, Edwards is kind of a slick prettyboy lawyer type, and that doesn't go over too well with some people.

[The Sushi Bandit]

44. kick

[kentuck]

45. Because Bush was stronger than Edwards in the South....

Because of the issues. ANd they could not vote but for one, so they voted for Bush.

[robbedvoter]

46. famous last words: "I promise you, IN THIS ELECTION, all votes will be

counted"
John Edwards, election night 2004
They played that on Unfiltered. Pregnant pause followed then "but that was last week

[Triana]

47. NC is a red state - Edwards couldn't have delivered it...

...no way. I don't think that was why he was on the ticket. To think he could have delivered NC Blue is just unrealistic.