Cobb: Obstruction in New Mexico, Voting Machines to be Cleared Out

[WilliamPitt]

Received via email:

NM SECRETARY OF STATE GIVES GREEN LIGHT TO COUNTIES TO CLEAR VOTING
MACHINES; COBB SAYS NM OFFICIALS ARE OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE

2004 Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb today accused
New Mexico election officials of "deliberately obstructing justice" by
giving counties the green light to clear electronic voting machines while a
demand for a recount of New Mexico's controversial presidential vote is
still pending.

New Mexico had the nation's highest percentage of under-votes
for the presidential race. In addition, there are still many unanswered
questions about provisional ballots, missing votes and the integrity of
voting machines which don't produce a paper trail.

"The conduct of New Mexico's Governor and Secretary of State has
gone from bad to worse. They have gone from showing a complete disregard
for New Mexico law and for the integrity of the democratic process to
deliberately obstructing justice. Clearing the electronic voting machines
while a recount demand is pending will destroy critical evidence about what
happened on Election Day. This is outrageous and makes you wonder what they
are trying to hide," said Cobb.

The recount request by Cobb and Libertarian Party presidential
candidate Michael Badnarik is now the subject of a lawsuit pending in the
New Mexico Court of Appeals.

In a letter faxed today to the New Mexico Attorney General's
office, an attorney representing the two presidential candidates objected to
the voting machines being cleared and suggested that the Secretary of State
was "shirking her responsibility to insure uniform application of the
election laws" by allowing county clerks to decide on their own whether or
not to clear the voting machines.

"Although, generally, voting machines can be cleared 30 days
after the official certification of the vote, New Mexico law is clear that
this can't happen when a recount has been initiated. With an appeal pending
in the New Mexico court system, any adjustment to the machines at this time
is clearly inappropriate and contrary to state law," said Lowell Finley, one
of the attorneys representing the candidates.

Voting rights attorneys will file a request for a temporary
restraining order tomorrow against the State Canvassing Board and county
clerks seeking to prevent them from clearing voting machines.

The State Canvassing Board, consisting of the New Mexico's
Governor, Secretary of State and Chief Justice, met tonight and formally
rejected a proposal from Cobb and Badnarik for a partial recount of the
presidential vote, which would have expedited the process, saved time and
avoided any costs to taxpayers. Previously, the Secretary of State had
unilaterally rejected this proposal though she lacked the authority to do
so.

"New Mexico's Governor and Secretary of State are doing such a
poor job of following state law that they're starting to make Ohio's Kenneth
Blackwell look good by comparison," said Cobb-LaMarche Media Director Blair
Bobier.

[New Earth]

1. my god

wtf is wrong with these people? wtf are they hiding?

Please, God, PLEASE, for once let a lawsuit go through and bring some justice. Is it really that hard?

[mopinko]

2. wtf indeed

what more proof do we need?

[catgirl]

3. The worst thing that will happen is they'll get a slap on the wrist

and they'll get paid handsomely with $ and/or jobs.
We have a lot of work to do.

[fearnobush]

4. Ok, Why?

NM has Bill Richardson Dem Gov?

[stevedeshazer]

5. Cobb's a Green

He can say that. He should. It plays right into Richardson's hands. Now the Governor willl have to respond publicly.

I'd bet he will love to answer those questions.

[whometense]

25. I've been asking and asking this question,

but have seen no answer anywhere. WHAT IS UP WITH RICHARDSON????? I don't understand what he's doing.

[New Earth]

26. i don't think anyone else does either

and that's probably why they don't have an answer :shrug:

[whometense]

27. It's just plain weird. n/t

[Karenca]

54. Richardson was on Kerry's short-list for VP candidate.

Now, he's on our shit-list.

[whometense]

60. He's sure on mine.

What I don't understand is what he might possibly have to gain by his behavior.

[berniew1]

49. There was corruption & fraud under their watch. Tarnishes their record

The Dem Sec. of State allowed widespread corruption & fraud in the election, irregardless of who was responsible- likely not Dems.
But having fraud documented, tarnishes the record of the Sec. of State and Richardson. And Richardson has ambition. Likely the other guy too. I think Richardson may be in a bad position now, no matter what happens. But he put himself there by allowing corrupt or incompetant officials in his cabinet to put him in a difficult situation.

[Amaryllis]

73. I'm wondering too. What the hell is up? Makes no sense...maybe there

really IS some huge conspiracy going on???? Dems and repubs getting paid off by makers of machines??

[mary195149]

6. What this country needs is

a civil war!!

[Occulus]

51. uh.........

[LeahD]

7. Is the Earth off its axis?

Gov. Richardson is a Dem, but something isn't right here. Maybe he doesn't want NM's reputation tarnished for not being able to get it right. In years gone by, we used to hear wild stories about the "bosses" (Dems) in northern NM....ballot stuffing, people voting multiple times, etc.

[Occulus]

53. yes

The earthquake that caused the big tsunami recently also introduced something like an additional inch to the wobble of the Earth on its axis and cost us a couple microseconds of spin, I think, due to the increased compactness of the crust at that location (much like a figure skater pulling in his arms).

So, to answer your subject, yes, it in fact could be said to be "off" its axis relative to before the tsunami. ;)

Hey, at least now we know why all this stuff is happening, right?

[Amaryllis]

74. Always nice to have SOMETHING to blame in on...

[Helga Scow Stern]

8. There seems to be a pattern beyond our understanding thus far--

of the two parties. And then the petition to recall the one SOS who does his job in an apparently honest way, Sam Reed, Republican of Washington.

It is all puzzling, but less so when we stick to the facts.

This new post by ignatzmouse about NM and beyond is excellent, if you haven't seen it:

False Populism: Racism, Religion, & Republican Values

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x278382#280916

excerpt:
How the GOP Targets Minorities: A New Mexico Case Study

The Five Pillars of Minority Disenfranchisement:
1. Keep Them From Registering to Vote
2. Purge Them From the Rolls
3. Keep Them From Reaching the Polls
4. Keep Their Votes From Counting
5. Vote For Them Ahead of Time

Registration Fraud: The well-reported account of Voters Outreach, a Republican National Committee sponsored organization, canvassing states to register voters as Republicans or to illegally destroy registrations of Democratic registrants is well-known. The strong possibility exists that this was not an isolated incident. Incident reports in New Mexico suggest there may have been a campaign to collect registrations from Hispanic voters with no intention of turning them in. Can't register enough of your own voters? Why not pre-empt Democratic registrations by sweeps through county fairs and Wal-Marts and then trash them? If the purportedly registered Hispanic voters show up on election day and try to vote, then they are the ones who look suspicious -- besides who's going to believe a poor Hispanic voter?

EIRS incident report #50325, La Mesa Elementary School, time: all day 11-2-04 "This is a general complaint about something that happened all day at this polling place. A number of Hispanic voters said they registered in voter drive efforts and never got a registration card (some didn't know to expect one). They expected to vote in precincts 318 and 322. They were not on list. The precinct judge said their addresses on photo IDs were in the precinct, let them vote provisionally but the concern is that there were double-digit number of these people. Did someone(s) register folks and deliberately not turn in the forms?"

Purging: The purging of "convicted felons" from voter registration rolls prior to an election is seen as a win-win situation for Republicans. The fact that the purged voters are often innocent and have been confused (purposely or not) with someone of a similar name and that many of the felons have been discharged and legally have the right to vote is beside the point. The Republicans discovered that they can cross minority names off voting rolls at will if there is a question of past felony. What party wants to be associated with named felons? If the Democrats stand up against the practice, the Republicans smugly reinforce their Right White morality stance in the minds of their voters. It is a stark illustration of dirty GOP tactics, playing the morality card in pretense while exploiting a divisive vulnerability in actuality.

more........

The solution, as ignatzmouse writes, is to demand accountability at all levels. Now, how are we going to do that?

[KoKo]

9. hmmm...some states have laws that all voting information must be kept

for a certain period after elections. This seems very soon. I wonder if anyone knows NM laws. The state's website for Board of Elections should give info on whether this is legal or not.

What about Richardson....isn't he a Democrat...?? :eyes: would think he might help out on this...if he cares about "the vote." Did he get the word from DLC/DNC that this is a "hot potato" and to shut it down?

He certainly hasn't been helpful. What the hell are they hiding that they have to destroy info... :scared: they are, it seems.

[Alizaryn]

10. Maybe Conyers can write THEM a letter and see if they

respond. Where the hell is Richardson?

[Eloriel]

11. Actually, I think HAVA mandates it for 2 years ...

would be worth checking that provision.

[KoKo]

12. I'm tempted to Google for NM BOE....but hope someone else will.

I find it hard to believe they could allow any election info to be discarded this early.

But, here in NC there was a debate amongst folks involved with this last election about whether machine tabulations are considered in the same category as paper ballots. And, whether the machines themselves are considered part of the vote. What's surprising is that no one could agree on quite what was the law. Are computer receipts the same as paper ballots, and is the "machine code" part of the process.

I got the feeling that it's "untested in the courts." Maybe that's NM EO's feel that information can be discarded. :shrug:

Edited..for spelling...tired...going to bed... Hope someone knows more info about this and will post. We need that recount...

[Boredtodeath]

91. FEC, not HAVA

Section 1974. Retention and preservation of records and papers by officers of elections; deposit with custodian; penalty for violation

Every officer of election shall retain and preserve, for a period
of twenty-two months from the date of any general, special, or
primary election of which candidates for the office of President,
Vice President, presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member
of the House of Representatives......

What it does NOT say, however, is that the ORIGINAL records must be kept in their original form.

Of course, WE expect that to be unwritten, but we know how elections officials in every state feel free to "interpret" the FEC and HAVA in their favor.

[all.of.me]

15. I heard that...

...they want to clear the machines to make them available for school board elections on Feb 1. Of course, this was on mainstream news.....

[troubleinwinter]

56. Let 'em vote for School Board with paper and pen!!!!

[LeahD]

19. Please read original post about when machines can be cleared...

"Although, generally, voting machines can be cleared 30 days
after the official certification of the vote, New Mexico law is clear that
this can't happen when a recount has been initiated. With an appeal pending
in the New Mexico court system, any adjustment to the machines at this time
is clearly inappropriate and contrary to state law," said Lowell Finley, one
of the attorneys representing the candidates.

[LandOLincoln]

13. This just gets weirder and weirder.

You'd think Richardson would be knocking himself out for the recount, especially since he's allegedly in bad odor with the party already for failing to deliver the state for Kerry.

Yet immediately after the election I remember reading that the party bosses in the northern part of the state were pissed at him because he hadn't campaigned for Kerry up there.

Overconfidence, since--with the exception of San Juan County (Farmington)--northern NM is safely Blue?

Or...what?

He's been bought out by the RNC? Threatened by the BFEE? The wingnuts are right about Hillary?

WTF?

[RaulVB]

14. What the hell is wrong with Richardson?

Here you can see how much anarchy you have within the party.

This guys does as he pleases and NOBODY at a national level tells him to cut the crap...

[m.standridge]

82. Zell Miller! Zell fire! He wasn't up for re-election

he was just that orn'ry.

[dbDESIGN]

16. Get copies! (as I posted elsewhere)

It's not technically difficult to get exact copies (drive images) made from the machines. Done properly this would preserve the data for investigation while allowing the release of the machines for other uses. A proper forensic audit would take quite some time; if you had copies you perhaps could circumvent the argument that the machines need to ready for other elections and buy time for a careful investigation. The political and physical logistics would be much more formidable than the technical challenges. If there's nothing to hide who would argue against being able to confirm that by backing up the data?

[Bill Bored]

32. They may be memory cards, not drives. n/t

[Carolab]

33. Why can they not simply replace the cartridges as well?

Preserving the ones from this "election" as evidence.

[LeahD]

17. Albuquerque Tribune

Here are some excerpts from the Albuquerque Tribune, January 7. 2005....

Machines eyed for APS/TVI vote
Clerk awaiting OK to use at least 300

Bernalillo County residents who vote early in the Feb. 1 school district election won't have to use a paper ballot, the county clerk says. The county has machines available, said County Clerk Mary Herrera.

Last week, Secretary of State Rebecca Vigil-Giron advised clerks statewide to hold off on erasing data from the voting machines used during the Nov. 2 general election because of a pending lawsuit over a recount request in the presidential race.

Vigil-Giron said she expects the state Canvassing Board to resolve the machine dilemma next week.

Herrera said she is late in preparing for school district voting because she's waiting to hear from the state as to when she can start clearing the machines.

"It's really putting us behind," she said.

So, Herrera said, if she can't clear at least 300 machines by Tuesday, she will seek a court order to do so.

If she doesn't get an approval to clear the machines, she said she is looking into buying new cartridges for a total of about $60,00 or renting voting machines for roughly $750,000 if cartridges aren't available.

(As a newbie to DU, I'm not sure how to post the link for the article...I haven't posted the complete article, just what I thought to be pertinent.)

[KoKo]

18. Thanks for the post on this. So, it's because they have a School Board

election and need to use the machines.. That means that the cartridges from Nov., 2004 vote could be taken out and examined. Although they have to pay to buy new ones..and that isn't going to make them happy to spend that money.

This sounds more like they just need the machines, than obstruction, though. So, it might get worked out so that the data can be saved for inspection.

[LeahD]

20. Money could be an issue,

because NM is a "poor" state, but I doubt it's the primary reason they're fighting the recount.

[New Earth]

21. if that is the case, i wonder how much it would cost?

i wonder if Cobb campaign has any extra money they can use to pay for it? at least that way, there is nothing NM officials can complain about.

[LeahD]

23. Cost of Recount

NM wanted 1.4 million up front for the recount.

[New Earth]

24. i mean the cost to get the data from the machines

[LeahD]

28. Sorry. I have no idea about those costs.

[Carolab]

34. If all they have to pay for is new cartridges, that's only $60.00. n/t

[LeahD]

37. Cartridge Costs/Typo

Sorry, had a typo in post 17....S/B $60,000.

[Carolab]

40. Well, that's still not TOO bad. We could raise it. n/t

[Amaryllis]

75. Not primary reason. They have been just like Blackwell; obstructing every

chance they get .

[meganmonkey]

46. To post a link:

Easy as pie - just copy and paste the address of the article into your post (right click on the address and click 'copy' and then when you are posting your message, right click again and click 'paste').

And thank you for posting that very relevent article - it is great to get a little of the background on this.

But most importantly of all, WELCOME TO DU!!!!

:toast:

[bush_is_wacko]

68. HELLO! Is there a link to this story somewhere and what is going on?

Is anyone working on stopping this crazy train?

[LeahD]

77. Here's the link

to the ABQ Tribune article, Jan. 7

http://www1.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_local/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19858_3453082,00.html

[LeahD]

78. Thank you, meganmonkey

My error. When I tried to cut and paste, I didn't preview the post, and I didn't think it would come up as a link. When I previewed now, voila! Thanks.

[Gloria]

22. Richardson has been in DC, meeting the DNC bigwigs, etc.

He has national ambitions.

He sucks.

[NVMojo]

29. underhanded SOBs!!!!

[LeahD]

30. Albuquerque Tribune January 13

Part of the article from Thursday newspaper:


Green and Libertarian presidential candidates are in a legal dispute with the state canvassing board over its requirement that they pay $1.4 million in advance for a statewide recount.

A state District Court upheld the canvassing board's ruling, and the third-party candidates are appealing to the state Court of Appeals.

The candidates had proposed a settlement under which they would pay in advance for a recount in 10 percent of the precincts. It would include not just retallying votes, but examining voting machine operations and how provisional ballots were handled.

Vigil-Giron said the candidates had failed to provide her with a list of those precincts in which they sought a recount
"After formal negotiations, that was the only thing I could do. . . . For me to have held them (the clerks) up for no reason, that would have been the most ridiculous thing that I could have done," she said after citing the District Court ruling.

On Wednesday, the state attorney general's office sent a letter to John Boyd, a lawyer for Green Party candidate David Cobb and Libertarian Party candidate Michael Badnarik. It outlined the state's position, saying clerks "have custody of the voting machines" and that it is "the clerks' discretion as to whether or not they need to clear the voting machines."

Lowell Finley, an attorney for the candidates, said late Wednesday that he had not seen the secretary of state's memo.

"It's certainly something that we will oppose vigorously because it undermines the whole pending appeal of the decision in the recount lawsuit," he said.

[LeahD]

79. Link to ABQ Trib, Jan. 13

http://www1.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_local_state_government/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19859_3467859,00.html

[Bill Bored]

31. OK, what am I missing here?

These are electronic machines with no paper ballots, right?

So, without condoning Richardson and his Blackwell-like SOS, WTF difference will a recount make if there's nothing to recount?

I can see a re-canvassing of the machines, where people just read the results again, like with lever machines, but there can be no actual recount without a paper ballot, can there?

And isn't NM the state that Cameron Kerry said it was a good idea to recount because the outcome of the race in NM could be changed? And WTF does that have to do with the Presidential election if he's not challenging Ohio anyway?

Are these guys for real or what?

What am I missing people?

[Carolab]

35. What if the results were electronically altered after the fact?

That would mean the machine recount might not match the "official totals", for one thing. They might not also match the audit logs. For another, what if they ask for the cartridges and offer to replace the ones used in November? Wouldn't that also allow a forensic evaluation of the cartridges?

[Peace Patriot]

36. I'm scratching my head, too. One possible theory: fiefdomism.

"Did he get the word from DLC/DNC that this is a "hot potato" and to shut it down?" --KoKo01

But WHY would it be a "hot potato" to the Democrats? Presumably--as all other information seems to indicate--the results in NM are currently wrong in Bush's favor, and Kerry won the state. Wouldn't Democrats LIKE to hear that news? And how does it harm them if it can't be proven? Doesn't.

So, what the hell is going on?

I've been trying to figure the Dem leadership out on this whole disaster of an election for two months.

Why didn't they scream bloody murder about Diebold and its secret source code? Yeah, Tom Delay wouldn't let election verification measures out of committee. But Diebold controlling the central vote tabulators--and no...public review? Come on.

So that's the basic puzzle. WHAT can the Democrats have been thinking when this election system was put into place? It is an open bank vault. It invites fraud. And Republican partisans control it.

Next: Why are Democrats so very disinterested in the machinery of elections, and in all the mountain of evidence that this one was stolen?

And, finally: Why on earth would Richardson try to stop the Greens from getting a recount? (Anybody know if he was running this time?)

I remember just a tidbit in the news, just before the election--a day before maybe--and it was something like, Richardson naysaying Kerry's election prospects, either nationwide or in NM. Been too long, can't recall details. But it left a bad taste in my mouth. Something odd about it. Politicians NEVER say such a thing days before an election. NEVER. Even if that's what they think. It hurts momentum. It's always, "We're gonna win!"

Anyway, what I figure is, Richardson doesn't think this wretched BushCon junta is going to affect his little fiefdom in NM. He's "circling the wagons,' trying to keep his head down, and hang onto to his little power base--a strategy that I think a lot of other Dems are following--wrong-headed, of course; really cowardly; and probably useless. But typical of the compromised, over-privileged, well taken care of, well fed, above-it-all, and sometimes corrupt lives that too many Dem politicians lead.

I think the Democrats' behavior--from the selling of our election system to Diebold et al, to Kerry's concession, all the way to Jan. 6, is utterly bewildering. So I'm casting about.

And, yes, Cam Kerry singled out New Mex as a state whose results were a concern.

Go figure.

[LeahD]

38. Richardson wasn't running for reelection in 2004,

but his name was being tossed around as a possible running mate for Kerry. Richardson said he didn't want to be considered...wanted to stay on as Gov. and work for the citizens of NM.

[New Earth]

39. i honestly doubt it but

i wonder if there was any fraud by Dems in NM? That would be horrible if true, but it just makes me wonder so much why he is being so uncooperative.

[Carolab]

41. Or the answer may be this simple. It's not the first time for fraud.

From what I've read this has been going on for years, through elections for both sides.

I think that the election fraud movement is screaming to open up a can of worms that has been on the shelf for a long time.

[m.standridge]

80. Oh, God--Rutherford B. Hayes

would have gotten nowhere near the White House without help from Democrats--and he was a Republican.

Does anyone else think Bentsen conceded too soon in 1988?

Why didn't Clinton visit Florida in 2000? Was he asked to stay out? Why did they change the rules in the Miami-Dade canvasses shortly before the 2000 election? Was Gore in Hillary's way?

Was Kerry?

And--George Wallace was a Democrat, face it. How he didn't do what he did to defeat Hubert Humphrey versus Nixon--a Republican?

Who turned out the lights at the Democratic National Convention in 1988 besides a Democrat?

Who voted against McGovern all over the South in 1972 besides a Democrat?

Where was Jimmy Carter in 1984 when his VP was up for Pres? How come Mondale couldn't carry Georgia--or at least get some endorsement from his former boss?

Why is it that some Democrats--while professing to be so concerned about the American people and our issues and well-being-- are so totally prepared to put us on the chopping block for "four more years", so often?

You're danged right it's a pattern--and a sickening one.
That guy that ran with John Anderson in 1980 in a third party that cost Carter the election, was a Democrat. So then, what, Carter gets revenge by not backing Mondale?

And the real victim is the American people, of all these sick little ego games.

[In Truth We Trust]

42. Jesus F**king Christ with "friends" like these who needs enemies?!

Does anyone in government understand the rule of Law?!

Does anyone in government understand "the will of the people"

Damn this really, really pisses me off. The shear arrogance of flaunting this fraWd in our faces. I fear that we have no further recourse without JUSTICE.

Good God this begs massive civil action in New Mexico. Impeachment of the triumvirate and a government shutdown and whatever else needs to be done to effect CHANGE and JUSTICE.

[rdmccur]

59. My sense here

is that the people are ignorant of any fraud or complacent or are delusionary.

[fasttense]

43. No wonder there is no "smoking gun" evidence of fraud.

The Repukes are so coordinated in their efforts to destroy all evidence that we will have the same fraud in the future. Welcome to a vote free America.

[OKthatsIT]

44. Why does this criminal behavior surprise anybody?

When the state decided to use DIEBOLD TOUCH SCREENS...and only DIEBOLD TOUCH SCREENS...why would you expect fairness?

- You cant prove 'fraud' without a 'blackbox' installed
- You cant recount, the tabulator will only spit out the same #'s.
- No paper trail at all.

And the same criminals wanted $1.4 mil for a recount?

duhhhhhhhhh

[OKthatsIT]

45. Why did Richardson permit the use of Diebold, Will?

Maybe you should ask him.

Seems to me you had to be a dufuss to invest in Diebold statewide. And why isnt he running again? Did opt to take a bribe? Was it simply stupidity/neglect on his part?

This state's election is so obvious and disturbing.

[LeahD]

83. Richardson was elected in 2002.

There wasn't a gubernatorial election in NM in 2004.

[McCamy Taylor]

47. Dems are just as afraid of jail as Repubs it seems

POssibly more so since the DOJ is more likely to prosecute DEms than REpubs.

[bush_is_wacko]

48. I knew this was coming!

How can WE prevent it? Is it time for another email, fax, letter writing campaign?

[berniew1]

50. New Mexico is the clearest case of fraud that swung the election result

Bush won N. Mexico by 6,000 votes and its clear that the amount of illegal actions including vote machine fraud, ballot stuffing(phantom votes), and malfeasance to prevent minorities from voting was far more than this. Its already documented, but they can't get anyone to look at the evidence. The establishment Adminsistrative and Judicial system refuse to look at the evidence.
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

[AtLiberty]

52. Does anyone have a link to Pitt's story?

Thanks...

[AtLiberty]

55. I found a link...

http://www.votecobb.org/press/2005/jan/pr2005-01-14.php

[mountainvue]

57. What's their hurry? n/t

[SharonRB]

58. And this can happen

with a Democratic governor? What's up with Richardson?

[KoKo]

61. It's amazing to see the Resistence to Any Recounts...by both Repugs &

Dems...What the hell are they covering up! It's gotta be huge...much bigger and more involved with both parties than what we ever anticipated.

All voting irregularities favored Bush...No state govenment is interested in recount now matter whether it's Repug or Dem Controlled (like here in NC which is Dem and NM with a Dem Governor) and the stalling and failure of the State Courts to uphold their own Election Laws is shocking.

What the hell is it? Does it mean it goes back to the 80's as one of our DU'er techies said? Voting has been corrupted consistently nationwide since the first Optiscan/Touch Screen/Punch Card system was used?

[Amaryllis]

67. This is HUGE: the level of suppression to stop anyone from obtaining

info in more than one state! And most have no clue this is even happening. If it weren't for the internet we wouldn't know either. Isn't is ironic that they are using technology to rig it and we are using technology to uncover it. Without technology they couldn't manage such large scale fraud, and without technology, we couln't uncover it, given the complicity of MSM.

[Democrat Dragon]

72. Five theories about it:

1. It's a huge conspiracy involving Skull & Bones

2. They are DLC\Republican plants

3. They were threatened

4. They were bribed

5. They are Dixicrats

[findTruth]

62. Count votes by hand in NM?

Can we have a full hand recount, at least at some counties in NM? If
so, tell them we want to count every vote BY HAND then!

[findTruth]

63. Request electronic copy of database in NM, Ohio and Florida!

Republic party in Washington State asked the State Patrol for an electronic copy of that database, the Washington State Identification System. The list contains more than 1.2 million records.

We should do the same thing in Ohio, NM, Florida and other states!!

[demo dutch]

64. God I really hope Michael Moore or someone will do a Votergate movie

There is just a wealth of material!!!

[demo dutch]

65. Don't kid yourself. Fraud is going on at both sides of the isle.

There is resistance by both repugs and dems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x283869

[LeahD]

66. Everyone should check out the thread!

Thank you for posting.

[No Exit]

76. *sigh* What if they held an election and nobody came?

I don't think it would be possible to do this, but wouldn't it be great if everyone, or almost everyone, just REFUSED to vote one time?

It would only work if it was that many people. If we just refused to participate, the whole system would break down. Then, maybe, just maybe, a sort of revolution could begin...

[KerryReallyWon]

69. I just emailed Gov. RIchardson!!

Told him how I felt. I met him and just got rid of my pic with him. He was my first choice for VP!! Imagine, being part of the problem instead of the solution.

PS Has anyone seen the great TV footage of Kerry and Vanessa with Chirac at the palace!! Looks like the president. Right on the heals of "no weapons" and their correct decision not to put soldiers on the ground. Hmmm shrub must be seething, Kerry has met with all the important leaders first. HA

[Bill Bored]

70. Well at least he's doing SOMETHING!

And Shrub has finally said, today I think, that he shouldn't have told the insurgents to "bring it on" after all. Imagine that!
What a frickin' MORON!

[Bill Bored]

71. It appears that what both sides may fear most

is the revelation that the system may be broken, corrupt or manipulable.

After all, if they admit this, then all incumbents are potentially illegitimate -- Dems as well as Repubs.

Personally, with the apathy I see in this country, I don't think they have anything to worry about really. Before this election, how many of us actually even voted?

But this time, we did get out the vote and if it can be shown that the vote cannot be verified, maybe both parties will act to correct this.

For the record though, it's been the Republican leadership (Frist, Lott, DeLay, Hastert and Ney) who have blocked Verified Voting legislation (5 separate bills!!!) from coming to a vote in the House and Senate. They should be deluged with letters and held accountable, and so should our state representatives who can fix this at their level.

[m.standridge]

81. this is where those 'indifferent" Democrats like Richardson,

the Clintons, etc., may very well be fooling themselves the most.
They're playing with fire here, by possibly helping Bush bring this off this time. The GOP has control of all three branches of the federal gov't now. That makes it very easy to cover all kinds of things up. Or to keep reforms from really happening.

[beammeup]

90. Writing to legislators about Repug opposition to Verifed Voting is a good

idea, but I don't think it will have the same effect as informing the public of this outrage.

If more individuals realized that these crooks oppose free elections then the subject of reform might be taken more seriously.

[The Flaming Red Head]

84. Richardson just thinks he's still a viable national candidate

He ain't no more. They may wipe out the memory of the voting machines, but they can't wipe out our memories, or remove our sense of betrayal by him.

[lonestarnot]

85. We need to flat take over here! Sit on the fucking machines with force if

necessary. This is just wrong! Get the pitchforks!:nuke:

[texpatriot2004]

86. I thought that BY LAW, they had to keep all data relating to a

Presidential Election for some 22 or 24 months after an "election"?

[LeahD]

89. Time frame is in the original post

"Although, generally, voting machines can be cleared 30 days
after the official certification of the vote, New Mexico law is clear that this can't happen when a recount has been initiated. With an appeal pending in the New Mexico court system, any adjustment to the machines at this time is clearly inappropriate and contrary to state law," said Lowell Finley, one of the attorneys representing the candidates.

[bunny planet]

87. I think we need a massive phone call and letter writing campaign in a 24

to 48 hour period, just like the one we all took on to get the Ohio electors contested. Why shouldn't Richardson's office and his Sec. of State's office be apprised of our disatisfaction with their actions and our awareness of their illegality. I'm going to do it first thing Monday morning.

KICK!!!
:kick: :kick: :kick:

[LeahD]

88. Lawsuit Filed January 14

From the Albuquerque Tribune, Jan. 15

"Advocates of a recount in the presidential race are shifting gears with a new lawsuit on behalf of voters who are seeking election reforms as well as an order to block county clerks from erasing general election data from voting machines."

"The lawsuit was filed Friday in state District Court in Albuquerque by attorney Lowell Finley, who also is representing the Libertarian and Green party candidates in another recount action. It claims certain voting machines used in the general election malfunctioned and produced inaccurate results."

http://www1.abqtrib.com/albq/nw_local/article/0,2564,ALBQ_19858_3473801,00.html