The military vote in NJ

[emcguffie]

S0 far, none of the counties have anything posted in the line for the overseas/military vote. But Monmouth County posted theirs:

Kerry 275
Bush 72

[tex-wyo-dem]

1. Wow!

No wonder Bushco hasn't mentioned the military vote.

[EFerrari]

2. This is the first hard number I've seen! Thanks. n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

3. *jaw drop*

[electropop]

20. Eyes bugged out, steam spewing from ears.

I figured it would be a big shift, but this is almost a unanimous vote against Bush. It's quite an achievement to get the military to abandon their beloved Repug party, so Bushit should be proud.

[woodsprite]

39. I just sent this info to my 17-member mainly "red" family

with a note that said

Hmmmmmm! Mandate my @$$!

Love to see the other numbers!

[Pacifist Patriot]

41. I looked up my county election results which are pretty detailed, BUT...

no mention of a military vote. Would that be buried in the "absentee voter" column? I'm curious because we have pretty sizable AFB here and have had several units deployed.

[Darknyte7]

4. Surprise, surprise, suprise...

As was the observation of others in this forum in previous weeks, had * won the military vote, Faux would have fallen all over themselves to get that information out weeks ago.

[merh]

14. Couldn't agree with you more! No surprise here, there is a

reason why the total military vote won't be released until AFTER the 20th. We know what it is, the majority of the military voted for Kerry and not the weed.

[txindy]

40. Absolutely

If the military had gone for Junior, we wouldn't have heard the end of it from Faux and its talking heads.

The military went for Kerry. In a BIG way. No doubt about it.

[bleever]

56. Yes, and yes, and yes, and...yes. The silence has been

very instructive.

How long til this comes all the way out? Is there ANY good news ahead for Junior on ANY front?

:hi:

[txindy]

58. Probably no good news ahead for Junior, at all

But his handlers seem to make that irrelevant, somehow. Meanwhile, we've got our true President-Elect showing the world we're not all fascist bullies. That's something.

[Kota]

5. Do you have a link to that?

[emcguffie]

8. Sorry, here's the link.

www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/
04_Municipality_pdf%27s/presidential_monmouth_co_2004.pdf

Is that a link that will work? Gee, how do you post it so it doesn't get cut off?

I had to put it on two lines to get the whole thing in.

Would some kind soul enlighten me?

[genieroze]

29. Look at this in Ocean County

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/04_Municipality_pdf%27s/presidential_ocean_co_2004.pdf

I guess none of the blacks voted in the borough of South Toms River because * won there even though is predominately black, as is Manchester. * made a few "cough" trips to Ocean County to secure? the vote. Very interesting stats.

[fearnobush]

51. Toms River padded votes for the Chimp by oppressing registered Dems.

I know one, her name was removed from the poll book at her polling place. She had to wait 4 hours in court to get a judge to allow her a provisional.

[genieroze]

53. Well Lakewood who is almost totally minority and Jewish went

for * by a HUGE margin. Go figure

[fearnobush]

59. I don't know the voting patterns of Hasitic Jews ,

but that town is largely African American. I really don't think the folks living on MLK Drive are voting for the Chimp. Other then what Iv'e heard from voters in Ocean County - I really believe Ocean Co. was hacked.

I think you might want to post the Lakewood totals as its own thread as those Chimp numbers look real real hacked. I think it's inconceivable that the Chimp took lakewood at all, let alone by a 2/3erds margin.

[genieroze]

71. No kidding OC was hacked, 10 points higher for * then in 2000?

Give me a break.

[NickiWitch]

6. I almost spit my coffee on my monitor!

Can you send the link please? This is FANTASTIC news!!

Peace!

[emcguffie]

10. it's a long link...

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/
04_Municipality_pdf%27s/presidential_monmouth_co_2004.pdf

Obviously, I don't know how to get the whole thing in. It's on two lines above.

Will someone tell me how to do it?

[garybeck]

55. the website seems to be down....

I was on there earlier today but now it seems to be down

[sepia_steel]

67. Just make sure when you post the link that you take out he spaces. n/t

[emcguffie]

70. the spaces? what spaces?

When I try to put it in this "Message" box that we type into, it is too long. Then when I preview it, the end is cut off and replaced with ellipses ... But that kind of a link won't work.

So I put it on two lines. You would have to cut and paste and put them together.

But isn't there an easier way? Maybe a smaller font? Can we change fonts in this box where you type?

[SaveAmerica]

7. Would that be the ratio of enlisted to officers? n/t

[SouthernDem2004]

9. A link:

http://oprs.co.monmouth.nj.us/oprs/clerk/electionframe.htm

There is no way to tell if they are military voters or just overseas. Remember its still a secret ballot in theory.

[zimba]

11. Kinda expected it to be like that. But not that big of a spread.

Cool. Hope we can find more counties in more states.

[emcguffie]

12. In Morris County ==

-- which is one of the few counties where Bush won, that I have seen so far (maybe the second), -- well, take a look.

In Morris County, the final vote tally was

Kerry 98,066 Bush 135,241

But the overseas/military vote was:

Kerry 489 Bush 230

[electropop]

21. looks like a pattern here. n/t

[genieroze]

23. I keep on saying it, as a NJ resident I think Kerry won by

a larger amount them reported. Example in my county of Ocean, Bush won in 2000 over gore by 51 to 48% with 1% going to other. In 2004 around 60% went to Bush and and 40% went to Kerry? Ocean county does usually vote Republican but I seen so many more Kerry signs and bumper stickers than I saw Gore signs in 2000. I live near the county seat and there were always war and Bush protesters down there. We have an extremely large senior population who saw their drug prices rise because of this administration and we had a large influx of minorities who usually vote Democrat move here. The last election before this one ousted many of the Republicans on the federal, state and local levels. Then we get these electronic voting machines and all of a sudden the pubs are back in power? Kiss her where it smells, take her to NJ has a whole new meaning now. We outsourced our factory jobs so what smells now are these voting machines.IMHO

[emcguffie]

28. Do we have citizen recount here?

In some states, they have sunshine laws that let citizens ask for recounts. I don't know yet if NJ does.

But if it did, is there something to count?

Could we "audit" it?

[genieroze]

35. I'm not sure but I would love a recount in Ocean County

since * won EVERY town including ALL of the heavily minority ones.

[ClintCooper2003]

37. Yeah, almost the entire state of New Jersey has gone to...

electronic voting.

[emcguffie]

13. another one

Sussex County. Kerry lost 98,066 to 135,241 for Bush.

But, overseas/military vote:

Kerry...71
Bush....28

[tex-wyo-dem]

18. emcguffie...

did you realize you posted the same vote number for Morris and Sussex counties. Are these real or was it a typo?

[emcguffie]

26. sorry

Sussex is

Kerry 71 to Bush 28

and Morris is

Kerry 489 to Bush 230

[helderheid]

15. that is AMAZING

I wonder if we'll ever see the rest of the country

[southwood]

48. Inderdaad.....

peace to yo too, clarity

[me b zola]

54. This has been my 'educated' guess

That overall, there has been a substantial shift toward Kerry (against *)

That the shift of regular military could be any where from 5-20%

That the military vote now includes those now frontward deployed, meaning that national guard & reservists who would not have been counted in the military vote are now, if they indeed have been 'mobilized'.

That many of the guard & reservists have left their civilian jobs that paid them a much higher wage to place their life in harms way. Many of these people will/are being discriminated against in their civilian jobs for their service--illegally fired for their service, passed-up for promotion/higher wages, and loss of benefits. Many of their employers are * supporters;flag waving, conservative-supporters of *.

About one half of reservists are prior military service--so that one half of them may be more of a reflection of the larger society. My guess is that only one quarter of guardsmen are prior military service.

Many are just thoughtful, righteous loving human-beings that did not sign on the dotted line to kill or be killed for oil.

So my best guess is that the size of the shift will reflect the counties where regular military, national guard, and reservist have been deployed from.

But indeed, I expect to see a shift for Dem. in all instances.

[emcguffie]

16. Last one --

In every county where the put the info up, Kerry won. It's interesting that in those counties, Bush won. But it isn't at all surprising.

Warren County

Kerry...23,990
Bush....44,506

And it's not overseas military, it's federal overseas. But the military votes have to be in there.

Kerry...20
Bush....11

So far, a sweep for Kerry. I will try to get the numbers for all the counties.

[Catamount]

17. Thanks, I knew it!!!!!!!!! -we all did didn't we?

He must have known it too and went to Iraq to thank the soldiers!

[emcguffie]

19. self delete/dupe

[Darkhawk32]

22. How could we find out how ALL the military votes went?

Just curious.

[emcguffie]

24. I'm trying to get the rest of NJ

I guess it's a question of asking the right people. They have to tell us, don't they?

[New Earth]

30. Gloucester County, as long as i'm reading this right

total votes for President:

Kerry - 66,835
Bush - 60,033

Federal Overseas (whatever that means):

Kerry - 20
Bush - 19

[emcguffie]

33. I missed that one. But it isn't all military, it's overseas.

Actually, it's federal/overseas. The guys overseas have to be in that.

[New Earth]

36. i thought federal overseas meant military?

then how do i know what was military vote and what wasn't?

[EFerrari]

25. Anyone get Army Times or one of those mags? nt

[flyarm]

64. army times.com and more!!

http://www.armytimes.com/

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/

http://www.estripes.com/index.asp

stars & stripes

http://militaryweek.com/

here ya go!!
fly:hi:

[SouthernDem2004]

27. There is no way....

[frictionlessO]

31. This is an incredible thread! We are on to something here that we knew

was there all along.

I tried but couldnt find any other numbers for federal/overseas/military!

Keep posting what you find!!

Awesome job!!

[genieroze]

32. Everything you need for Jersey is here, except the military vote.

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/electionshome.html

[emcguffie]

34. Yeah, that's where I'm getting it. n/t

[garybeck]

38. this is AMAZING. can someone total all the counties? Please!

we should be able to get a total for the state by adding up all the counties. the state total would be very interesting!!!!!

[findTruth]

43. Is it possible to verify every county total by adding up all the precinct?

Where can we get the data from Ohio, New Mexico and Florida?

[MadisonProgressive]

42. Isn't it odd that the absentee ballots all favor Kerry and just

happen to be paper ballots and not machine manipulated?

[findTruth]

44. Request electronic copy of database!

Republic party in Washington State asked the State Patrol for an electronic copy of that database, the Washington State Identification System. The list contains more than 1.2 million records.

We should do the same thing in Ohio, NM, Florida and other states!!

[Lisabtrucking]

45. How did I know they would mess with the absentee ballotsf?

Funny how I knew there would be big problems with absentee voting before it happen.
I went to a Democratic rally before the election in Florida, and they were pushing the absentee voting hard. All of the older people and really most of the 300 who showed up said, that is how they are going to vote because of all the problems Florida had last election. I urged them to take a second look at their decision. I just had a funny feeling about it. I told them, I was to afraid they would go after the absentee ballots this election, and they tried to assure me they wouldn't. Hmm, How right I was. I voted on the machine, and not sure it counted for the guy "Kerry" I voted for. The republicans have found ways of fixing elections, and I'm really worried about the next "2006" one.
I don't see them running around to fix these problems, and heck why should the majority fix anything, it works for them.
I believe the only way we are going to have fair elections is to raise hell all year about this stolen election.
When the weather gets better "spring, summer" I hope there are a lot of protests going on.

[Pacifist Patriot]

46. You raise an interesting point. I have a vision...

of a concerted DU effort to infuse the Independence Day celebrations this year with election reform. Visibly, loudly,....hmmm....what can we do????

[Lisabtrucking]

47. That would be kick ass, I'm there. n/t

[garybeck]

49. QUESTIONs

is federal overseas the same thing as military?

where are absentee ballots in these tables?

I"m going to make an effort to add them all up and get totals for the state but I need to know what I'm looking at.

thanks

[Beth in VT]

52. I was wondering the same thing.

Before we get all excited it would be good to distinguish military from overseas in general.

[mousie]

57. I saw this:

Eligible Voters for Federal Ballot

A “Military Voter” includes New Jersey citizens who are members of the Uniformed Services, merchant marine, commissioned corps of the Public Health Service, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.


The “Uniformed Services” include members of the United States Armed Forces (Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard.

Family members of a military voter are also entitled to vote.

A military voter is a voter who is absent from his or her New Jersey residence on election day; and is entitled to vote whether he or she is living elsewhere in New Jersey (ie.,a military installation), outside of New Jersey or outside the United States.



An “Overseas Civilian Voter” is a voter who is living outside of the United States and who was residing in New Jersey immediately prior to departure.


To receive a federal ballot, the civilian overseas voter need not have been registered to vote in New Jersey prior to going outside of the United States, but must have been domiciled in New Jersey and have possessed the qualifications to register and vote in New Jersey.

The overseas civilian voter is entitled to a federal ballot whether or not he or she ever intends to return to the United States to reside.



http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/vote_overseas.html#1

[fearnobush]

50. Whho Hoooo - And we're a Repuke county.

But I'd suspect a lot more military folks in Monmouth voted than 347.

[LittleClarkie]

69. Wait a cotton-pickin' minute -- it's a Repub county?!

With the college there and everything? It's still a Repub county?

That makes this result even more remarkable.

But then, I think the Navy knew who their buddy was, and I don't thing several in the Navy appreciated the insinuation that they can't give out a medal to save their lives.

Isn't Bush Co. about to pretty much cut the stuffings out of the Navy's fleet? I think I read that.

[dmac]

60. Wow - I am not surprised at the vote, but I am VERY

surprised that anyone let this particular cat get out of the bag. Very interesting times ahead?

[LittleClarkie]

61. Is that where Monmouth College is?

I have a friend who is an Econ professor there.

But if we're talking about the military vote here, does it matter that it's a college town? Just wondering out loud.

[flyarm]

63. yes..my alma mater!!...

monmouth college is now monmouth university!!
fly

[flyarm]

62. wow thats my county!!!..too bad i moved 1/2 yr to fla!!

and vote in fla now!..what a mistake!!..don't even know if my vote counted!!..and it a lousey feeling....

thank you monmouth county military..realize fort monmouth ( army)and earl navy base are in monmouth county!!

my birth place!!..i am so proud of them!!
when do we get the results of iraq war headquarters..mcdill afb??
ole jeb will keep it hidden as long as possible..i am certain of that!

fly

[fasttense]

65. What the military are allowed to vote?

You know how hard it was for me to vote while I was in the military. Well, very hard. My address kept changing and the registration process kept changing and I usually only voted in every other election. See once I figured out the process they would change it again.

[lonestarnot]

66. NJ on cutting edge of genius!

Dey got balls in Jersey! Wish I lived there.

[sepia_steel]

68. Amazing. We did know it! eom