Don't let anyone ever tell you to move on

[BigBearJohn]

If we don't fix the problem with vote fraud and corruption in the U.S.,
we have no democracy... Americans don't even realize how close we are
to becoming a fascist state. Everything we want and love in this
country depends on our ability to have our vote counted honestly.

What could possibly be more important than prosecuting the criminals
who stole our last two "elections"? Each time it gets easier to screw us.
Rights get quietly taken away (can you spell "p-a-t-r-i-o-t   a-c-t")?

Big corporations are moving overseas for only ONE reason --
SLAVE labor. And guess what? After we lose our middle class here
in America, the rich bastards will have another colony of slaves --
called the United Slaves of America. All done in the name of "free trade."
Well, I have one question for you -- if it so free, then why aren't
the people of India and China paid the same salary as the workers
they replace in America? Slaves are cheaper than workers.

Rome was once a great empire and developed its vast power through
slavery. How is America any different? Isn't that where we are
headed?

Don't let anyone ever tell you to move on. Our lives depend on it.

[RaulVB]

1. Always refreshing to find people who knows about history

Thanks for your perspective

[dustoff034]

2. Give it a rest (Move on)

I agree that there were Massive problems with this election... most could be solved by simply having paper receipts from the voting machines (just like the ATMs that Deibold makes).

Write your congreeman and MOVE ON. There is nothing that you can say or do that is going to get Bush kicked out of office. Focus on things that you can change (MOVE ON)!

But, the constant whining and nashing of teeth over the 2000 election is just pathetic and only hurts all libs and progressives. When the media went to FL and hand recounted ALL the votes - Bush won. MOVE ON.

Your ranting is only giving the freepers ammo (slave labor, stolen elections) and is a small step from saying that we all need to start wearing tin foil hats to block Rove's mind control ray.

[BigBearJohn]

3. I wholeheartedly disagree

I notice how you say "massive problems" - these aren't massive
problems -- they are CRIMES against America.
In America, when a crime is committed, you don't move on.
You prosecute the crime. Why is this any different?
I am not trying to overturn the election.
I am trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
You are only spouting the Republicans point of view.
We'll see if you say MOVE ON when the police are investigating
a crime in your own backyard.

[RaulVB]

5. Who in the hell are you? (n/t)

[dustoff034]

6. A socially-liberal, politically-independent, realist

I don't care who you sleep with, if you do drugs, or who/wht/if you worship. I think that gov't can do good and it needs tax money to work.

[bitchkitty]

8. Whining?

You're not calling us whiners, are you?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. I refuse to Moveon from Democracy, and that's what you're asking me to do.

BTW... bit of history. Bush did not win in the handcount of Florida in 2000. 6 out 9 scenarios Gore did. Look it up.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. May I rant now? Nah, it isn't worth it on you. Have fun with the new

fascism. You deserve what you get.

[MadisonProgressive]

27. Everything you just said is WRONG.

[dustoff034]

28. nice argument

Maybe next time you could actually respond - or are you going to take your toys and run home crying?

[MadisonProgressive]

29. You're asking to be tombstoned.

[dustoff034]

30. Because I want to have an intelligent discussion???

I'd like to look to the future and discuss what needs to be changed, NOT throw around emty charges, personal threats and diatribes.

The movement has serious flaws and we need to have adult, mature discussions and not "tombstone" everyone who may disagree on a minor point.

[MadisonProgressive]

32. You want to have an intelligent discussion?

"Maybe next time you could actually respond - or are you going to take your toys and run home crying?"

Right...

[Straight Shooter]

35. But you're wrong. You are so wrong.

When the independent media went to Florida and hand counted all the votes, it proved Gore won. It was to be sensational news on September 12, 2001. Funny thing is, it actually was printed as a news article in the WSJ on 9/12/01, but there was a major LIHOP the day before which kind of distracted everyone's attention.

I'm not going to provide you a link, it's out there for you to google and I don't have the time.

[FloridaPat]

4. There are more reason the slave labor. Corporatiosn don't have

to pay FICA taxes (they get to keep a total of 15% in their coffers for each employee), unemployment, health care (just about everyone has universal health care), other benefits. They are saving a bundle just on those items. Then you add the cheap salaries.

[El Fuego]

7. Suggested new name: DontMoveOn.Org

[New Earth]

9. haha

that's good

[corbett]

10. Love It!

Ingenious! The sentiment is right on!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. lol! That's great! :) n/t

[BigBearJohn]

11. Just had a strange thought --

Don't you find it interesting that group that is lying and cheating
used to be the group in favor of slavery during the American Civil War? And they still want us to be slaves... only they cover it up with red herring and slight of hand, and despicable deception.

[Philly Buster]

12. Your history needs a little work

Democrats were pro slavery. The republican Lincoln led the fight (civil war) to end slavery. Well actually to end secession but the result was the same.

[BigBearJohn]

13. True enough, but --

where were the slaves? In the blue states or the red states?

[Philly Buster]

14. Slaves were in what are now blue and red states

NYC was the main point of entry. The South, being more agricultural, had a greater use for slavery.

The inconvenient fact is both parties have skeletons in the closet when it comes to racism. And the democrats' history is a lot uglier (slavery, KKK, poll taxes, Jim Crow laws) are worse than any modern racism of the republicans. I don't know of anything republicans did that can compare. What can be worse than slavery and the crimes of the KKK? I'm not saying the republicans aren't guilty of racism, but historically the democratic party was worse.

[BigBearJohn]

15. Then what was the civil war based on?

[Philly Buster]

16. Entire books are written debating that question

Underlying cause was slavery. Other causes were tariffs and a bad attitude toward DC.

The war itself would not have happened if the South didn't secede. Lincoln invaded to force them back into the Union, not to free the slaves.

Lincoln wasn't the Great Emancipator the republicans make him out to be although the republican party platform did include abolition.

[bobbieinok]

34. and the worst dems (Helms, Thurmond, Lott, et al) became republicans

[Straight Shooter]

36. The party of Lincoln ceased to exist a long time ago.

It bears little resemblance to the spendthrift demagogues of the modern Republican party.

John Wilkes Booth is referred to, tongue-in-cheek, as "the first freeper."

[GetTheRightVote]

37. Speaking of history, there are history books written indicating that

Lincoln in fact was racist but did not want the nation to split into two pieces either. He still felt that blacks and whites should not associate with each other, he was still a man of his time but one who loved the nation and kept it together even over his own emotions on the subject. This fact makes him one of the greatest presidents of all time, he put the nation and her people first, * is so far from this that it only shows that the Republican party of today has no relationship to President Lincoln.

:kick:

[fshrink]

17. Well...

We've been told to do just that by our own leaders twice already. One guy above repeats it. The real question is where do you draw the line? Haven't heard our leaders on that topic. Have heard a lot re. getting over it however.

[Dave Reynolds]

18. I have mentioned to may folks around me

that the only way the U.S. can compete in the global market is if we all want to make $2 a day.

I, for one, can't do that.

[EFerrari]

19. People who tell you to move on can't handle the truth.

They may be honestly strugglng or they may be full of Oscar Meyer's Baloney.

The deal isn't to always get in their face. The deal is to hang on to the truth that YOU KNOW, and to be wise and to keep working along with the truth. Not struggling, just letting the truth be there, all the time.

Sometimes, not taking on an idiot is the very best thing you can do for yourself or for anyone else. Sometimes, you have to step up to the plate and say stuff no one wants to hear.

If you're good at this whole political thing, you learn the difference. And save your energy for the fights that mean something. If you're not good at it, lol, you can learn. :)

[BigBearJohn]

20. Wow. Couldn't have said it better myself. You rock!

Gave me a few chuckles along the way too. Thanks.
You are a wise man.

[EFerrari]

21. Big Bear, I've never been a man but if it will take W down,

I'd be willing to play one on T. V. lol

[fasttense]

22. Wow

How timely, I'm in the middle of a book about Roman society. The Peasants (by peasants I mean farm dwelling poor) supported that economy. They were overtaxed and their crops were taken to support the rich. They constantly revolted. That's what the idle rich don't seem to understand. The peasant population saw how they were exploited and knew they could never get ahead so they constantly formed bands of outlaws to attack the rich (burn their property, steal their crops, rape their women) and these bands would evolve into social revolts. I'm talking constantly every year or so. The Roman armies were continually called to put down the unrest.

So if our America evolves into two classes of people the Rich and the Poor, the poor will constantly revolt and attack the rich. The Rich have to understand there is no peace at home unless the society has a healthy middle class.

But of course it will take years to squeeze out the middle class and in the mean time, as we evolve into a two class society, the middle class and the poor are lulled by the propaganda machine.

[BigBearJohn]

31. How history repeats itself, no?

[BigBearJohn]

38. kick

[KoKo]

33. I agree....It's long past time for "Move On." If it isn't fixed now

there's nothing left to Move On, to. It's been too long we've been told to "overlook it all," believe there's a "strategy" to think, "if we are nicer than they are..in the end we win...because Americans just hate mean TV Ads and bickering....

NO MOVE ON! We have too much "Unfinished Business" to "Move On."