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Finally! An explanation that makes sense. The real bottom line.

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 06:46 PM
Original message
Finally! An explanation that makes sense. The real bottom line.
Edited on Fri Jan-14-05 07:00 PM by BigBearJohn
Click here: http://slate.msn.com/id/2109218/">Why Americans Hate Democrats—A Dialogue -- The unteachable ignorance of the red states.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109218/

I say forget introspection. It's time to be honest about our antagonists. My predecessors in this conversation are thoughtful men, and I honor their ideas, but let's try something else. I grew up in Missouri and most of my family voted for Bush,* so I am going to be the one to say it: The election results reflect the decision of the right wing to cultivate and exploit ignorance in the citizenry. I suppose the good news is that 55 million Americans have evaded the ignorance-inducing machine. But 58 million have not. (Well, almost 58 million—my relatives are not ignorant, they are just greedy and full of classic Republican feelings of superiority.)

Ignorance and bloodlust have a long tradition in the United States, especially in the red states. There used to be a kind of hand-to-hand fight on the frontier called a "knock-down-drag-out," where any kind of gouging, biting, or maiming was considered fair. The ancestors of today's red-state voters used to stand around cheering and betting on these fights. When the forces of red and blue encountered one another head-on for the first time in Kansas Territory in 1856, the red forces from Missouri, who had been coveting Indian land across the Missouri River since 1820, entered Kansas and stole the territorial election. The red news media of the day made a practice of inflammatory lying—declaring that the blue folks had shot and killed red folks whom everyone knew were walking around. The worst civilian massacre in American history took place in Lawrence, Kan., in 1863—Quantrill's raid. The red forces, known then as the slave-power, pulled between 150 and 200 unarmed men from their beds on a Sunday morning and slaughtered them, many in front of their wives and children.* The error that progressives have consistently committed over the years is to underestimate the vitality of ignorance in America. Listen to what the red state citizens say about themselves, the songs they write, and the sermons they flock to. They know who they are—they are full of original sin and they have a taste for violence. The blue state citizens make the Rousseauvian mistake of thinking humans are essentially good, and so they never realize when they are about to be slugged from behind.

Here is how ignorance works: First, they put the fear of God into you—if you don't believe in the literal word of the Bible, you will burn in hell. Of course, the literal word of the Bible is tremendously contradictory, and so you must abdicate all critical thinking, and accept a simple but logical system of belief that is dangerous to question. A corollary to this point is that they make sure you understand that Satan resides in the toils and snares of complex thought and so it is best not try it.

Next, they tell you that you are the best of a bad lot (humans, that is) and that as bad as you are, if you stick with them, you are among the chosen. This is flattering and reassuring, and also encourages you to imagine the terrible fates of those you envy and resent. American politicians ALWAYS operate by a similar sort of flattery, and so Americans are never induced to question themselves. That's what happened to Jimmy Carter—he asked Americans to take responsibility for their profligate ways, and promptly lost to Ronald Reagan, who told them once again that they could do anything they wanted. The history of the last four years shows that red state types, above all, do not want to be told what to do—they prefer to be ignorant. As a result, they are virtually unteachable.

Third, and most important, when life grows difficult or fearsome, they (politicians, preachers, pundits) encourage you to cling to your ignorance with even more fervor. But by this time you don't need much encouragement—you've put all your eggs into the ignorance basket, and really, some kind of miraculous fruition (preferably accompanied by the torment of your enemies, and the ignorant always have plenty of enemies) is your only hope. If you are sufficiently ignorant, you won't even know how dangerous your policies are until they have destroyed you, and then you can always blame others.
MORE AT THE WEBSITE PROVIDED ABOVE

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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. The link does not work for me (n/t)
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atommom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Link doesn't work for me either, but the excerpt is fascinating.
And all too true.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. I added the link again
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. No, sorry. Wrong premise here
Democrats HAVE WON 4 ELECTIONS IN A ROW.

There is nothing wrong with that.

The premise is based on the regime's manipulation of electoral results.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Very good! I like this plan of action:
"Progressives have only one course of action now: React quickly to every outrage—red state types love to cheat and intimidate, so we have to assume the worst and call them on it every time. We have to give them more to think about than they can handle—to always appeal to reason and common sense, and the law, even when they can't understand it and don't respond. They cannot be allowed to keep any secrets. Tens of millions of people didn't vote—they are watching, too, and have to be shown that we are ready and willing to fight, and that the battle is worth fighting."
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The part is true on the article is this one:
A NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY can't write off states.

You need to COMPETE everywhere. If you don't participate you can't win.

Easy.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. The repubs cast dems as being the pro welfare party, we must constantly
point out that "their" tax dollars are being wasted. On missile defense systems that don't work, on corporate welfare, on pork and it is the GOP that is wasting their money not the dems.

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TwentyFive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. GOP Fundamentalist Christians are bloodthristy and 100% evil.
I agree with you. You cannot reason with these people. I have family members who are GOP and fundamentalist christian. Getting them to change is impossible....because everything they have is invested in the way they are.

For example, I have one relative who made MILLIONS loaning money to small farmers. His strategy was foreclose on their farm. He knew that eventually bad weather would force them to miss a payment. Sooner or later, their farm would become his, and he could sell to a large corporate farm. He made millions this way.

He is also the ultimate southern Baptist. He is a member of several right wing christian/republican groups. He goes to church 3 or 4 times a week. He is a racist. When he was younger, he beat his 4 kids so severely that they are today either adult alcohol/drug abusers...or they in turn beat their own kids. They are all angry people. They direct their hate onto any weaker target that is available....kids, animals, environment, gays, minorities, liberals. This is why rightwing talk radio is so popular - it provides a plethoria of targets to hate! No matter how big their house, SUV or trust fund....they can't seem to get rid of their anger.

For me, it is painful to spend 5 minutes around them. I feel both pity and disgust toward them. For them to change....would mean going back and seeing how all their wealth was built upon conning small famers, abusing children, cheating minorities and more. There is simply too much evil to deal with....so they just keep on keeping on. Sad.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. KNOW THY ENEMY - Playground Rules Employed by Repubs
Edited on Fri Jan-14-05 07:23 PM by BigBearJohn
Rule #1:

The easiest and most effective way to eviscerate (disembowel)
your opponent is to subject him to overblown ridicule and gossip by
threatening his stature or self-esteem with wide-spread embarrassment.
(even if it's based on utter falsehoods).

Rule #2:

Find a chink in his armor and pick at it til it bleeds.

Rule #3:

The APPEARANCE of righteousness and moral rectitude and integrity
will trump all other arguments.
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TwentyFive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. This comes natural to christian republicans.
At heart - they are motivated by hatred and anger. It is the very center of who they are. It motivates christian republicans to out-work and out-think democrats. Their hatred motivates them to work 18 hours days, and stop at nothing to put their destructive plans into action.



Although democrats are also motivated at hatred of republicans....it is never the core of who we are. To contrast, look at what the GOP did to Clinton...only a group of people consumed by hatred would have the capacity to stop at nothing to bring him down. As much as we hate Bush....it just never consumes any of us for 24 hours a day, for months on end.

However, if they take away enough of our freedoms and trash our country...maybe we will become as angry. Maybe that is their objective?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. whoaaaaaaa!!
i hate * 24 hours a day!!

trust me on that one!!lol

fly:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. Yep. And the flip side of the coin
for the democrats:

Rule #1

When talking about questionable actions or positions of your opponent, give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Rule #2

Honesty and clarity in your position will allow the media to spread the word widely and accurately

Rule #3

If your opponent's conduct is weak, stand back and give him the rope he needs to hang himself. The media will help.

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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think low self-esteem plays a part in the make-up of a republican
The ones I know fit in two categories; christian fundamentalists or low self esteemed 'middle-child syndrome' types that think that others with knowledge are looking down on them. I kept hearing republicans say that Kerry was a New England elitist that doesn't understand the 'other half' of America, but did you ever hear Kerry say or do anything that would give that impression? I guess that when some people heard Kerry use words with more than 2 syllables they must have decided Kerry was saying they are stoopid.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. BINGO!!!!!!!!!! Anti intellectualism is part and parcel
of the Republican make up... it used not to be...
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. One problem with the premise ...
can be found in your statement: "I suppose the good news is that 55 million Americans have evaded the ignorance-inducing machine. But 58 million have not." I think we make a terrible mistake if we blame Americans for choosing Bush because this forum has documented beyond any reasonable doubt that Americans did not elect Bush -- the machines and the thugs did.

I don't think we need to change our Democratic messages or priorities and I don't think we need to think ill of our fellow countrymen. We just need to shine more light on the election theft, we need to really count the votes and then we need to lock up the scum who raped our democracy. And then we need to pat ourselves as Americans on the back, thank the majority of Americans who did not vote for Bush and expose the remaining Busies to the truth that their "leader" never won a fair fight in his life. If we do those things, the Repug Party is finished, at least until they take a massive colonic and flush the vestiges of Rove shit from their innards.

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Well, I agree partly; however I think you missed a few points.
Edited on Fri Jan-14-05 08:45 PM by BigBearJohn
I still feel millions upon millions DID vote for Bush
because half of them live near me and try to cram his "virtues"
down my throat everyday.

And I do think ill of my fellow countryman when they have
their heads stuck so far up their derrieres they can't
see the light of day. Stupid is as stupid does.

What I got from the articles was more information on how
the right achieves their dastardly goals. I will not turn
my head from evil. Evil does exist. Greed also exists.
And it, more than anything else, is destroying this world.

I just think that understanding people's motives goes a long
way towards understanding their actions.

Anyway, that's my take.
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I don't disagree that many people supported Bush.
But it's a mistake to believe, and to allow them to believe, that they represent the majority opinion (or political orientation) in this country.

I think it is very important to understand everything we can about the motives, and the thought processes and the tactics of the Busies; so we can combat them better. But if we act and think and talk as if we are in the minority (when we are not), then we surrender a legitimacy to them that is rightfully ours. And the nice thing about pursuing the prosecution of the election theft to its logical end is that we will succeed in destroying any claim to patriotism by the flag-draped Busies. That will also destroy any underpinning of moral authority they lay claim too also.

If I ever go back to church, it will be to see some of the right-wing ministers eat the murder of crows that we'll cook up, just this side of raw, for them to gorge on in front of their betrayed flocks.

All-American, moral values, speaks with God -- just another load of horseshit from another all hat/no cattle Texas frat boy. He has no mandate -- he just has the keys to the vote counting machines. And that's a whole different kettle of fish. The people who will react most violently against the election theft are the former Bush supporters who will learn they voted for a charlatan and an immoral phony. When that happens, they will be more receptive to a civil conversation with us about patriotism and values than they have been since Rush first went on the air. That's a day worth working for also.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Very well said. Thanks for writing. I appreciate it.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I'm with you! You can not reason with these people. They can not think!
If the church says, if the Bible says, if Bush says,
absolutely zero, zilch, nada INDEPENDENT THOUGHT

THAT'S HARD WORK.............remember?
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Good article BBJ...
Edited on Sat Jan-15-05 06:01 AM by Andromeda
As much as I hate to think about it, millions of people did vote for Bush.

I do think there is another reason they voted for him: fear. Bush keeps his supporters in line through fear. That's mentioned in the article but I believe that fear is the strongest motivator and it also makes the extremist fundamentalists dangerous.

As Stephen Kings says, "Those people scare me."
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. not true
I hate hearing the premise that 55 million voted blah and 58 million voted blah.

NOT TRUE.

It's fine to know the enemy and blah blah blah but let's stop accepting the election results.

if we really know the enemy, we know they cheat.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-14-05 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Bingo. Amen. Nail on the head.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. Which is why they don't care that voters were suppressed.
"The reason the Democrats have lost five of the last seven presidential elections is simple: A generation ago, the big capitalists, who have no morals, as we know, decided to make use of the religious right in their class war against the middle class and against the regulations that were protecting those whom they considered to be their rightful prey—workers and consumers. The architects of this strategy knew perfectly well that they were exploiting, among other unsavory qualities, a long American habit of virulent racism, but they did it anyway, and we see the outcome now—Cheney is the capitalist arm and Bush is the religious arm."

They won by being greedy, cheating liars and racists.
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Exactly! We are the MAJORITY!
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-15-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. You picked out (IMHO) the most salient portion of the article.
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