Wexler reminds elections chief of paper trail challenge

[Freddie Stubbs]

By George Bennett

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Monday, January 10, 2005

Less than 48 hours after Arthur Anderson took over as Palm Beach County elections supervisor, Democratic U.S. Rep. Robert Wexler gave him a pointed public reminder of who and what got him elected.

"Arthur, we are going to have a paper trail, right?" Wexler, D-Delray Beach, asked Anderson in front of about 400 people at a Democratic rally west of Delray Beach on Wednesday night.

Wexler's tone was jocular. But the underlying message was as serious as a manual recount.

After spending much of 2004 pursuing litigation against paperless voting and being the most prominent backer of paper-trail advocate Anderson's campaign for elections chief, Wexler in 2005 is not about to let the issue fade away.

more: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/epaper/2005/01/10/s1a_paper_trail_0110.html

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. DU needs to send Wexler a message...

Voter Verified Paper Ballot!

Not a F&*^%$* papertrail.

All our work is going down the tubes if we ask for a frelling papertrail!

[brindis_desala]

2. Exactly!

We need paper only voting. Cheap easy and requires no computer training. We must all keep on this!

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. Let me ask you...

if we go all paper...how do we count King County Washington in under 6 months? Keep in mind, that in some election cycles, we have up to 1000 splits. I would really like to know...how we are going to count such a complicated election using only paper and hand counters.

The solution is not as simple as all paper all hand counted. Elections officials are already overworked and underpaid...running an election is hard work. If we take the one tool away from them they have to make life easier we can forget about reform.

With proper auditing and rigorous controls, optical scan machines can be as safe if not superior to hand counted ballots. We should not throw the baby out with the bathwater...I have a few conditions for safe optiscan machine voting...which if implemented would go a long way to assuaging my fear about electronic voting.

I really need to do that position paper.

[eridani]

10. I was a poll worker in WA state and agree with you

Optical scanning has a paper record, and the front end is extremely convenient. When my polling place (a school library) got crowded, people didn't wait around for one of the provided privacy booths to vacate--they just drifted off into the book stacks and found various flat surfaces that were semi-private. This speeded up the process quite a bit.

The two points of vulnerability are the private software (which could be solved by forcing the machine provider to make it public, which they do with slot machine software now) and properly overseeing the final tapes (not a problem here, but a serious one in FL).

[Wilms]

11. I was going to ask for a position paper.

End to end what we want in the voting system.

Even registration issues.

For what it's worth I googled Carter.

<http://www.cartercenter.org/doc1866.htm>

<http://www.cartercenter.org/doc140.htm>

[Carolab]

12. But Andy

all due respect, but did you read the Cal Tech/MIT recommendations re: hand counted paper ballots as posted on votersunite.org? Did you see Chuck Herrin's presentation about this? They all agree: No machines.

[brindis_desala]

13. easy- early voting by mail and federal and local elections separate

[Amaryllis]

15. Andy, if you can get down in writing what would be a secure method it

would help a lot of us immensely who are pushing for reform but don't have the tech knowledge to know what to push for! Many of us are working on educatating our legislators and are trying to figure out what we ned to be asking for. I am in OR and we have Diebold and ES&S tabulators and know we need to do something about that but aren't sure what. It doesn't have to be a position paper for now; can you just put in writing what we need to have secure optical scan machines? Or is it more complex than that?

And, are you an advocate of paper ballots but not hand counted? I can't tell from what you said and again, we need to know what to be asking for. We have paper ballots in OR and it seems to work fine.

Chuck Herron insists we need hand counting. Obviously you disagree and I can see why when you talk about splits.

[sepia_steel]

17. one idea, though it may not change much

keep different elections seperate.

Governor, treasurer, president...

just a thought. But a paper trail wont help us if the machines are rigged to 'default'. THAT'S what we can't even look at. :(

edit: i can't type worth a damnn. 600 posts woot!

[AmerDem]

18. I think you should

With the knowledge you have on e-voting, if you put together a post laying out the main goal and important issues of election reform, it could probably be stickied at the top of the page and it would aide other DUers to get a definitive message out to Representatives and the public.

[glitch]

19. Hand count the votes at the precinct level

Human powered distributed computing.

[bush_is_wacko]

28. I and others have the answer for counting!

We had a rally here in Colorado just after the election. At that rally there was a speaker that has observed, I believe Switzerland's voting system, could be Sweden, don't quote me until I verify. Anyway, they vote on colored paper the EXACT same size as money! What do they use to count? You got it the same damn machines we use to count money! They have a different colored ballot for every issue. Both sides of the issue actually have different colored ballots and every candidate has a different colored ballot too. The process is for observation open to the public.

After the election a representative for each side of each issue and a representative of each candidate counts their color of paper right next to the other guy using money counting machines. They keep each other honest, but really there is never an issue because they all know they are being watched by the other side! IMHO, this is PERFECT for the good ol' USA. It might even prevent any court issue from arising!

[imenja]

29. I thought you insisted you didn't want to use any machines?

Haven't we had discussions about that? I was assailed for suggesting that machines could be used to count paper ballots, and now you are saying that is the answer.

[bush_is_wacko]

30. I'm sorry. I meant no computerized, programmable machines!

Old fashioned money counters cannot be hacked. The do have computerized versions so I think it would need to be specified.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Tell that to the MN elector who accidently voted for Edwards

instead of John Kerry.

[NationalEnquirer]

4. I'm afraid it will be a hard sell.

So many democrats, myself included, were so gung-ho on the electronic voting machines.
If we complain now, it will come across like sore losers trying to change the rules AGAIN because we lost.
I wish we hadn't pushed so hard for these damn machines in the first place..

[Bill Bored]

5. You're right, but I think Wexler knows the deal.

There is much confusion about this though, partially due to the terminology. The concept of the VVBP is not well understood, but AFAIK all 5 bills that were blocked in Congress since May 2003 did specifiy VVPBs. We need to get random audits along with this though and NOT all the bills mandated that.

[Andy_Stephenson]

7. I agree with the auditing etc etc...

but the terminology we use is just as important. The law says what it means and means what it says.

[paineinthearse]

3. Of the ~500 members of congress...

Who are on record in support of paper trail and the other 8 election reforms put forth by the Greens and others? Let's build the coalition and get a real reform bill introduced ASAP.

[NationalEnquirer]

6. Good point, coalition is needed.

I think we can scrape up a few Republicans to go along with this.
They think we cheat as much as we think they do.

[brindis_desala]

14. Tell me where Oregon is wrong...

What is Vote By Mail?
In 1998 voters passed a ballot measure directing all elections to be conducted by mail, commonly called Vote By Mail. Instead of using traditional polling places where voters go to cast ballots on election day, a ballot is mailed to each registered voter. The ballot is then returned to the county elections office and is counted on election day.

With Vote By Mail, how do I vote?
You must be registered to vote to receive a ballot. (Please see FAQ for more information.) A ballot will automatically be sent to all registered voters who are eligible to vote in the election 18 to 14 days prior to the election. Once you vote your ballot, just place it in the secrecy envelope, seal it and place it in the return envelope. Make sure to sign the return envelope after verifying your name and current residence address is correct. Then place a first-class stamp on the return envelope and mail it back. Remember that all ballots must be received at the elections office by 8:00 p.m. on election day. Postmarks do not count!

What if my ballot doesn't come?
If your ballot does not arrive within 5 days after they have been mailed, please call your county elections office. After checking your voter registration status the county elections office will send you a replacement ballot.

What if I make a mistake on my ballot?
If you make a mistake, clearly erase the incorrect mark then mark the correct oval. If you make a mistake that cannot be corrected or used a pen, you may call your county election office and request a replacement ballot. One will be mailed to you provided the request is received with sufficient time for mailing. Otherwise, you may pick up a replacement ballot in person at your county election office.

Will my vote still count if I don't vote on all measures and/or candidates?
Yes, the ballot will still be counted.

What If I forget to sign my return envelope and I have already mailed it?
Your ballot will be returned to you for your signature, unless there is not time to return it by mail. Otherwise, you may come into our office and sign it. Please call our office at 503-988-3720 to check on your ballot status.

Can I change my mind after I've returned the ballot?
No. Your ballot has been cast as soon as you deposit it in the mailbox or at a drop site. After that, you cannot receive a new ballot to re-vote.

Will my vote still count if I forget to put my ballot into the secrecy envelope?
Yes, the ballot will still be counted.

Do I have to return my ballot by mail?
No. You have the choice of mailing your ballot or returning it to any county election office or any designated drop site. The times and locations of drop sites in Multnomah County are listed in each Voters' Pamphlet or on our website.

How do I know if my ballot was received?
You can always call your county election office and ask if they received your ballot. A record is kept showing each voter whose ballot has been returned.

Can someone find out how I've voted?
No. All ballots are separated from the return envelope before the ballots are inspected. This process ensures confidentiality.

Can someone find out whether I've returned my ballot?
Yes. That information is public record.

When are the ballots counted?
All ballots are counted on election day - none are counted before. No results can be announced until 8:00 p.m. on election night. The Tuesday before election day, county election officials may begin preparing the ballots for counting by opening the return identification envelope and the secrecy envelope. The ballots are secured until election day.

When will election results be known?
Initial results are released at 8:00 p.m. election night and will continue to be updated through election night until all ballots have been counted.

What if I have more questions?
Call Multnomah County Elections, 503-988-3720 or send us an e-mail, and our elections staff will be glad to assist you.

[Amaryllis]

16. We have Diebold and ES and S tabulators. Right now we have honest

elections officials and a great SOS but we are open to tampering as long as we have those tabulators. A number of us are working on that. I just read a couple of article last night criticizing vote by mail but the problems in both cases involved the tabulation of the votes.

[glitch]

20. A partial solution: absentee vote but not by mail - voters drop off their

ballots at the precinct and sign the poll list. This eliminates lines because the ballots are filled out at home and are simply dropped off. It eliminates some of the potential for ballot stuffing by requiring a signature at drop-off.
Then the ballots are hand-counted at the precinct and the numbers are reported for central tabulation, also human powered.
All activity at the precinct supervised and monitored (maybe even paid monitors, what with all the money saved by not leasing vote count equipment).

Optical scans also work, but ONLY if they are independently and randomly verified with hand recounts, which they rarely are.

[Carolab]

21. Signature AND ID.

I don't get that people can vote without identification. That's ridiculous.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. The ACLU opposes requiring ID to vote

As with the other methods of disenfranchisement in American history, such as literacy tests and poll taxes, the photo identification requirement would present barriers to voting and have a chilling effect on voter participation. There are voters who simply do not have identification and requiring them to purchase photo identification would be tantamount to requiring them to pay a poll tax. As a disproportionate number of racial and ethnic minority voters, the homeless, as well as voters with disabilities and certain religious objectors, do not have photo identification nor the financial means to acquire it, the burden of this requirement would fall disproportionately and unfairly upon them, perhaps even violating the Voting Rights Act, 42 U.S.C. § 1973.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:z_UbGr4GPvUJ:www.constitutionproject.org/eri/ACLU.doc+%22photo+identification%22+voting+discriminatory&hl=en

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. Do you think that you are going to get quality people for a monitors

for a temporary job where you work one day a year?

[glitch]

24. Not saying they can't be volunteer, just saying you could pay if you

wanted to. Give a retiree a little cash. And yes, I do think quality people are available for a 1 day a year job - especially retirees and people with flexible schedules who can take a day off on election day.
But even using city-county-state employees one day a year would work.
It worked during the recount here in WA and that lasted longer than 1 day.
Or instead of volunteers, think of jury duty. We could use the same procedure to gather citizens to monitor the precinct counts as we do to gather juries together. Another civic duty.
Americans can still handle a little civic duty now and then, don't you think?

[BamaBecky]

25. FOR THE LOVE OF ____________(INSERT EXPLETIVE) !!!!!!

IT'S PAPER BALLOTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right Andy?

Be sure and tell Wexler THAT!

:hi:

[berniew1]

26. Documentation of widespread vote machine fraud, dirty tricks in Florida in

Widespread systematic vote machine fraud, and dirty tricks and suppression of minority registration and voting in at least 20 states in 2004 Election:
summary of some of the documentation

Although it was thought that voting inTouchscreen machine counties produces no paper trail, this was not the case this year since the widespread problems found in the 2000 election resulted in 60 non-partisan organizations interested in fair elections forming a consortium in 2004 to provide an election incident reporting system(EIRS) for reporting election irregularities. Thousands of such irregularities were reported in several swing states, especially in touchscreen counties, thus providing a paper trail for election irregularities down to the precinct and even machine level in many cases. From this and other investigations, including the Ohio recount effort, vote machine fraud and systematic dirty tricks and suppression to reduce minority votes has been documented in most states investigated. It is also clear that this was a systematic effort, not isolated local events.


Florida http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.flcv.com/dirtytrf.html
http://www.flcv.com/EIRSFla.html http://www.flcv.com/EIRSFla2.html


At least 20 states: http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

[Carolab]

27. Arthur Anderson was a "Dean's Dozen's" candidate.

Dean campaigned for him and DFA pledged $ to his campaign. I am sure he understands.