AP: Machine that lost votes in N.C. did same in Pennsylvania

[Wilms]

Machine that lost votes in N.C. did same in Pennsylvania

Last updated: January 23. 2005 3:02PM
The Associated Press

The same model of voting machine that lost 4,438 votes in Carteret County also erased votes in three Pennsylvania counties, officials in that state said.

"We continue to be uncertain about these machines," said Michael Coulter, who heads an independent committee examining voting machine mishaps in Mercer County, Pa., where he said machines in 13 precincts erased some voters' choices.

Mercer County, as well as Beaver and Greene counties along the Ohio border, use the Unilect Patriot voting machine. The electronic mechanism, which does not produce a paper ballot, is the same model that lost votes on the Nov. 2 Election Day in coastal Carteret County.

-snip-

All three of the western Pennsylvania counties recorded a high percentage of "undervotes" for president, which occurs when a voter doesn't vote in that race. Mercer County's undervote was 7.8 percent, four times higher than in 2000, when they used old, lever machines.

-snip/more-

<http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050123/APN/501230693&cachetime=5>


-on edit-

There's more here:


Voting machines probed

Problems in Pa. heighten N.C. officials' concerns about paper-free electronic devices

MARK JOHNSON Charlotte Observer 23 January 2005

-snip-

All three of the western Pennsylvania counties recorded a high percentage of "undervotes" for president, which is when a voter doesn't vote in that race. Mercer County's undervote was 7.8 percent, four times higher than in 2000, when they used old, lever machines.

-snip/more-

<http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=4698>

[Carolab]

1. Oh, let me guess...

these were heavily Democratic precincts?

[Timebound]

2. But of course.

Why do we need to shave votes in Republican areas? :eyes:

How can anyone look at stuff like this and honestly think there wasn't at least SOME fraud involved?

[Igel]

7. I wouldn't say heavily, depending how many votes you

think were lost.

Mercer County Kerry: 24,831 Bush: 26,311

Beaver Kerry: 42,146, Bush: 39,916

Greene Kerry: 7,674 Bush: 7,786

(http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/default.aspx?control=StatewideReturnsByCounty&ElecID=1&ID=1)

[nodictators]

19. Lookee here: In 2000, Gore WON all 3 of these counties

Beaver County
BUSH, GEORGE W. (REP) 32,491
GORE, AL (DEM) 38,925

Greene County
BUSH, GEORGE W. (REP) 5,890
GORE, AL (DEM) 7,230

Mercer County
BUSH, GEORGE W. (REP) 23,132
GORE, AL (DEM) 23,817

[bullimiami]

3. functioning as designed.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. Tell me it ain't so Joe. Business as usual......... n/t

[rodriguez94]

5. a few thousand here...a few thousand there....

that is the difference in how the election was stolen this time as opposed to 2000 where it all seemed to take place in one state...here we have Ohio, New Mexico, NC, now Pennsylvania??? There are others I may have forgotten...and more importantly, how many little squatty towns had hundred of votes stolen and the poll workers were too computer illiterate to know the difference.....we may never know how many votes were not counted...

[tngledwebb]

6. Right. But at least BushCo is competent in one area!

Of course with one or two (or was it three?) previous presidential coups, a stacked SCOTUS, four or more years practice, MSM complicity, and a big big black budget, not to mention one helluva successful (and unmentionable) terrorist attack on the mainland, they didn't have to work too hard.

[merh]

15. They either stole votes or prevented people from voting in

every state. They skimmed from all over and used so many techniques that they know it will be difficult, if not impossible to prove the theft or all of the theft.

[Wilms]

16. That's what's bugging me.

It's a really tall order. And it suggests why Conyers/Kerry have acted the way they have.

A part of this story I don't get is where were all the lawyers when this stuff was happening/reported?

[merh]

17. There is not a lot that can be done on election day to

affect the voting process, if you try to do anything you are accused of trying to interfere (tamper?) with the election.

That is what is so difficult about "challenging" the election and proving the fraud. There are so many entities that have the authority and the responsibility to conduct the elections. As the repugs like to smuggly say, the BOEs are made up of dems and repugs and in some areas where the problems exist, the dems are the chairmans of the BOE. I hate to give the bastards any credit, but their multifacted techniques throughout all of the states made their crime so easy, successful and hard to prove, let alone attack.

[nodictators]

21. Proving widespread, pro-Repub fraud is do-able

There is a useful fraud indicator that is currently being ignored.

This Pennsylvania election fiasco may be another bit of evidence. There, unlike Ohio, most of the election officials seem to be honest, and have sought to have an obvious problem investigated. The culprit seems to be the UniLect Patriot voting machines. Whether it is fraud or an innocent error is still to be determined. But, as I noted above, it was the Democrat that lost votes.

[emlev]

8. "Unilect Patriot?" Translation: Elect One Patriot?! n/t

[skids]

9. My thoughts exactly...

How orwellian is the name "unilect". Sounds sort of like you only have one choice, eh?

[emlev]

11. "One choice," there's an oxymoron! n/t

[Bill Bored]

10. Or UN-elect one! Sort of like 7up -- The Uncola, huh? nt

[emlev]

12. No, those were the machines that counted backwards!

[insane_cratic_gal]

13. The cycle is never ending

Letter I wrote to company and maybe you can drop them a note too..
Since they make these claims on their web page sent me into a tizzy. I live in Western Pa while our county didn't use the product it still pisses me off to not end
http://www.unilect.com/c_pat01.html


Never had a significant hardware or software election problem.
Never lost even a single vote.

Considering your web page brags it never lost a single vote, you may want to reconsider your false endorsement of your product. Explain to be what significant is exactly? Is it one vote of an elderly woman who waited in line for 5 hours to cast a vote? Is 10 votes? Maybe it's 100 lost votes is that signficant enough to convince you to take the wording off your website? How about 4,000 votes in one county. That's significant to me a registered voter, who's state was effected by your faulty machines.

Your electronic voting system (dre) does not produce a paper ballot and is the same model that lost 4,438 votes in Carteret County, along the N.C. coast. If you do not have a verified paper trail (btw We the american people, want all DRE and computer voting companies removed from our democratic voting system) how can you make such wild claims as boosted above? http://www.unilect.com/c_pat01.html

"No other company can Claim these points". True because it's faberications, no other company would out right lie about what they deem siginifcant or not.

[Bill Bored]

14. Hey, this is a good idea!

Why don't WE, or YOU cratic gal, post a thread with all the relevant contact information for the actual companies so we can write to and/or litigate against them about all these "glitches?"

At the moment, it's just corrupt, incompetent Boards of Election who are dealing with these vendors. But this is a consumer protection problem as well as an election problem.

Why isn't say the FTC involved? I know, they're run by the Bushies, but so is everything else in the Federal Govt. And there are state consumer protection agencies too, right?

Just a thought. Any lawyers out there working on this?

[nodictators]

22. Get a load of this happy-talk business news media coverage

---snip---

For Unilect, however, the blow is not likely to do a lot of damage. Analysts say that's because of the favorable reputation of its leader, Jack Gerbel.

Gerbel has been involved in the election equipment industry since 1965, and at one time had the distinction of personally selling more election systems than anyone else in the country.

"Unilect's reputation is pretty much synonymous with Gerbel's," said industry expert Doug Chapin, of Electionline.org. "And from what I understand, a lot of people trust him when he explains what the problem was."

In the Carteret County election, one of Unilect's voting systems, known as the Patriot, was supposed to be able to record more than 10,000 ballots. Because a "one-key change" wasn't made to the machine, however, it was only capable of recording 3,005 ballots, Gerbel said.
<more>

http://www.insidebayarea.com/businessnews/ci_2533941

[insane_cratic_gal]

23. ya he sent me a email reply

Was rather upset with me and my accusations. What pissed me off was the wording they used on their web page how they never lost a vote, when in fact they had lost not just 1 but thousands.

Carteret County, NC did have a problem with one
device last November because, through a misunderstanding, they felt it would
record 10,000+ ballots. Unfortunately, because of a wrong setting (That
Carteret should have changed 3 and a half years ago), it could only record
3005 ballots. Thank you for reminding me about our previously true
statement regarding no customer ever having lost even a single vote. We
will remove that wording.

The statement "Never had a significant Unilect hardware or software election
problem", still is completely accurate, in hundreds and hundreds of
elections. In each of our accounts, our system worked exactly as it was
directed to, in last November's election. In fact, we do have the very best
track record of any company in the entire election industry.

I'm very glad that you feel that the loss of even one vote is significant;
so do we. That's why our system is 100% accurate, not 99.9% and we are
proud of that.


He goes on to defend it the DRE and his own Rep basically

Here is how you contact him since someone asked

[e-mail]

Here is my deal if it's something that should of been fixed 3.5 years ago where the hell is the support for the machines they have? Do you purchase election equipment, then not support it?

[insane_cratic_gal]

24. Jack isn't so squeaky

clean

check out this by another Du'er

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x45594

[NationalEnquirer]

18. Oh my, what a co-incidence.... NOT. n/t

[Al-CIAda]

20. Daniel Hopsicker speaks about this in this interview-

Only 30 min. of your time...be warned though, you will never be the same. US democracy is an illusion-
January 18, 2005: FTR #494: "Another Interview with Daniel Hopsicker about Electoral Fraud"
http://www.wfmu.org/listen.ram?show=13923
------
Archives for Dave Emory
Tuesdays 6pm - 7pm on WFMU 91.1 fm 90.1 fm
http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/DX

[RaulVB]

25. Everything worked just "fine" on November 2nd!

Happy to "vote" in America!