I miss the old name...This doesn't feel like "Home"

[spooked]

This Room was a refuge, a haven, a special place where people understood what you were going through, where history was made...

It's like when new owners buy the old familiar diner that's been in business for years and change the name. They always seem to go out of business.

I miss the old place.

[New Earth]

1. me too

:cry:

[SharonRB]

2. I agree

I flipped when I was looking for the old name and saw this instead!

[ultraist]

3. What was the old name?

Election fraud? I'm new here.

[Hugin]

15. Election 2004 Results & Discussion.

I think this new general term is better.

It'll live longer.

:)

[AmerDem]

4. wtf

what is with a few of you people? To hear you whine you would think there was no where else to post. The 2004 election is now in the past but the issues that surround it are important points that have to be worked on.

Right now we have threads on nitwit subjects like "Olberman polls" getting much more feedback than threads on contacting Sensenbrenner the man who is responsible for allowing election irregularity hearings to begin. Do you not see a problem in this? Are you not aware of the many many other forums here at DU?

:wtf:

[JoMama49]

5. I like "Stolen Election and Election Fraud" much better!

[Der Blaue Engel]

8. I think we should all have been allowed to vote on a new name

n/t

[AmerDem]

10. what, do you own the site now?

take this talk to Ask Admin.

[Der Blaue Engel]

16. Yes. Yes, I own this site. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

:eyes:

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. I think you're being a little hostile

People are expressing valid concerns about the "emotional bonding" aspect of this forum and whether that will continue.

I'm a tad concerned myself.

[AmerDem]

11. oh geeze

:nopity:

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. Back atcha

:nopity:

What's up with the attitude?

[spooked]

17. That's it..."emotional bonding"

What's wrong with getting attached?

I'm a bleeding heart liberal through & through.

[spooked]

14. I think there is still ALOT to be done with proving ELECTION FRAUD

VOTES still need to be counted!
Statistics worked on...
PROOF gathered...

I am not wanting to JUST start making sure there is a paper trail in 2008. 2004 is NOT OVER in my mind.

The numbers, the numbers, we need the numbers, and then they need to be PUBLISHED for all to see, then there needs to be an upheaval in the collective consciousness of this nation.

[AmerDem]

18. yea, and your point being?

How does this relate to anything I've mentioned? Don't you think "Election Fraud" fits under Election Reform, Advocacy and Action?

[sepia_steel]

57. Do YOU own this board?

Because you're sort of acting like you do. What's wrong with people saying they miss the old name? You ARE being hostile.

[Hugin]

20. Spooked...

I sympathize with you one gazillion percent. (Which is a lot
and may even be more than you realize.)

However, I've been beaten over the head for three months now
about how statistical evidence of fraud may be enough for me
(an engineer) but, it isn't enough for a court proceeding (judges
and lawyers).

(Why it isn't, is an argument for another day.)

Our task now... or so it seems. Is to derive a legally
acceptable and provable means of detecting or preventing fraud
and protecting the votes of American citizens.

2004 provided lessons... Which we need to study and
learn from.

However, I don't think there is much of a chance of them
making a near term difference in the results of the 2004
election.

That said... If you have concrete evidence acceptable in
a court of law. I will personally carry you and it all the
way to D.C.

:grouphug:

(Edit: Added "preventing")

[spooked]

23. Thanks for the {grouphug}

Yes I understand what you're saying...guess i still need one more sob before pragmatism wins the day over passion and justice.

fading to a wimper now...

[Hugin]

24. Keep that passion strong and the justice will follow!

I guarantee it!

BTW... You're welcome. =)

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmerDem]

41. ""Whiners" is a word that the RW uses very often"...

Oh is that so? Please further expound on your profound ( albeit ridicules comment )with a lil statistical data to back it up.

It just so happens I use "whiners" many times when I see what should be grown adults soiling their panties over this forum's title.

Now, do you consider me a repuke?

[spooked]

43. Now, Now, children

Don't make me be the adult here.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NationalEnquirer]

66. I like the new name!

The fraud part is implied in reform anyways.
I mean, why else reform the system?
How else to get "the other folks" on our side?
Fraud scares everybody, we use that to push for reform, we just dont need to bash people over the head with it.
I mean, we dont need to get hung up over PROVING it to most people, lets just show how its possible, they will jump on board the Reform thing.

[mirrera]

55. You are right!

I was actually feeling a little whiney and can totally relate to everyone's angst over the name change because I came here right after 11/2/04, actually at the sugestion of Shiela Samples who wrote such a great piece she led me away from the hypnosis of corporate Media. But I have recently mentioned to another poster who sugested that I post something as a new thread, that my posts sink like a stone. I had posted a plea for people to email Conyers about the fact that he did not offer as an option on his survey: paper ballots hand counted. I felt it should AT LEASY be an option. I got 3 replies, but a post about voting for Kerry's picture on Yahoo stayed on the front page for way longer. SO... much as I have certainly partaken in that same vote, and had fun, we HAVE to FOCUS to beat this fascist regime before they come and get us...

[Hugin]

6. Ooooooooo Home! Home on the range...

Where seldom is heard a discouraging word!

And the skiiies are not cloudy alllll daaaaaay!

Hoooome... Hoooome... on the range!

(all together now!)

:nopity:


(Note: Sorry to use nopity. It was the only smiley having to
do with singing or music.)

[super simian]

78. Nopity

:nopity:

Gosh, thanks I've been looking for an excuse to use this adorable emoticon and just haven't been able to find one. I guess the name means "no pity" as in "somebody call the whambulance" but I read it like nope-ity, as in "you just got it all wrong buddy." Anyway, here is a whole orchestra of the little guys just to get it out of my system.

:nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity:

PS. I also feel a bit disoriented with the name change since it was a place for me to go to deal with some very strong feelings about The * Theft of the Presidency Part Two.

I also felt that it unintentionally resonated with taunts that we should "get over it" and "put election fraud behind us" and "move on" when HEY we're just not ready and may never be.

My poll on whether we should put election fraud behind us found 80% of responders thought putting election fraud behind us was a really bad idea. However, the future is ahead and the past is behind us, no matter whether we continue to fight against what happened on 11/2/04 or not. So maybe in the end the name change makes sense after all.

:nopity:

[johnaries]

9. I kinda like it! Now it's not just 2004, but 2000 and 2002, AND 2006!

I really like the "ACTION" part. After all, it IS time for ACTION!
:headbang:

[liam97]

12. I would have preferred to see Boxer's term

"electoral justice"...

[all.of.me]

21. Oooooohhh.... good one!

The Electoral Justice Forum. Sounds solid...

But this will do. I didn't even notice the name change. I think we'll all still be here fighting for the same thing for the same reason.

[troubleinwinter]

30. Electoral Justice and Reform

Woulda been nice.

Justice: There is still the issue of 2004 'irregularities',fraud, disenfranchisement to discuss. Support for Conyers and others investigating these issues. Lawsuits to follow. GAO and FBI investigations.

Reform: Self-explanitory. Voter Veritfied Paper Ballots.

[spooked]

32. Yes, we're still looking for JUSTICE

aren't we?

[troubleinwinter]

36. Yeah, some indictments, to show criminality won't be tolerated.

[Amaryllis]

46. ALL that stuff still goes here. See these two threads:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x298329

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x298456

[marions ghost]

59. i agee that is perfect

"Electoral Justice and Reform"

This is good and avoids using the fraud word which turns so many people off (nobody wants to admit how much fraud there is in this society in general--it's huge). But still gets across the message that there have been grave--egregious--assaults on the foundation of democracy, the electoral process.

"Reform" does sound too lite (although of course it can contain the charges of fraud) standing alone, but good with Justice.

Can we submit this to admin or is it too late?

[FreepFryer]

77. And, as mentioned, it would be an homage to Boxer. A good thing. (n/t)

[all.of.me]

19. Yes! Time for Action. I agree. n/t

[FreepFryer]

22. Lighten up. A rose by any other name will still uncover rancid fraud. n/t

[Pooka Fey]

25. I think this new name is too P.C.

It's too polite, and let's all have 'tea and crumpets' with the fascist neo-cons. I wonder if DU is trying to not offend anyone new to the message boards with the word "Fraud". I miss the old place too.

[spooked]

31. Yes, "Tea and Crumpets"

but feels more like "Thank you Sir may I have another"

[Hugin]

33. No bite to it...

I'd suggest something a little stronger...

DUers for sending current administration directly to hell.

[RaulVB]

51. I agree. PC seems to be the standard (n/t)

[BigBearJohn]

26. How can we hope to affect change if we cant take a little here?

[spooked]

27. What a good point

but I also have a hard time accepting a President the majority of the people didn't vote for.

I WAS READY FOR A CHANGE.

[BigBearJohn]

28. You, me and about 60 MILLION other people

[Im with Rosey]

49. Thanks!

BigBearJohn for helping to put things into perspective. I am also saddened by the change... I haven't been here as long as some, but it had become a comfortable best friend. We have sooooo much to do, though that we can't lose sight of the prize. Write a letter to Boxer, write a letter to Conyers, if that doesn't make you feel better, rant to corporate media!:evilgrin:

[BigBearJohn]

67. My pleasure

:)

[Hugin]

29. Me too...

A little let down.

But, for us and those like us...

All the proof we need is right in front of us.

How in the %$#%$#%#$ did a guy who (on a good day)
can only muster a 44% approval rating. Win the
election by 51%?

Answer is... He didn't.

Q.E.D.

[Hugin]

34. I felt the same way...

When PBS and NPR went into the crapper a couple of years ago.

[keepthemhonest]

35. hey spooked just remember

ERAA er- emeregency roon AA-alcoholics anonymous

just the two things we need after everything we have been through since the november election.

no but seriously ,I feel a little weird about it but change is good sometimes. In this case, the mods were not going to let us continue on with that forum anyway so it is good that we took it apon ourselves to fix the impending problem.

[spooked]

38. LOL, yes, we're still here, Thanks Mods

--Not being ungrateful. Just a little sentimental, and not wanting us to ever FORGET.

[keepthemhonest]

39. no never forget ,spooked n/t

[Shalom]

40. Instead of just morphing, tell it like it is: BRING BUSH DOWN !!!!

[spooked]

42. There Ya Go!!

Tell it like it is!

[understandinglife]

45. BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7 --- (aka TBO;24/7)

[mirandapriestly]

52. Yes, that is more like it!!! NT

[seito]

44. Still feels like home to me

I was glad to see the "I Believe" thread pop up again.

What I see are the same people, discussing the same issues. It is all good.

:thumbsup:

[Der Blaue Engel]

53. Maybe I was paying too much attention to some of the same old people

And giving more credence to the attitude than I did under the old name. Silly me. ;)

Maybe the new name will start to feel more comfortable after it's been through the wash a few times. As long as the same issues are still alive here, it's fine with me.

:toast:

[sepia_steel]

58. Yep!

:loveya:

[tommcintyre]

47. Name had to change.. The new name is probably just fine.

Most importantly, is what we DO in here.

Anyway, the intent is understandable/clear. ELECTION, REFORM, and hopefully more people here will get the idea that this forum is about ACTION (not just writing IMOs). I'm just glad we didn't wind up splitting this forum, like some were pushing for (would've resulted in diminishing/dissipating our effectiveness).

Also, can you imagine if this DID come to a vote here? I wonder how many freep-types are registered here and would become "alerted" to come vote here? We might have had a very interesting "write in" candidate. ;)

[Fly by night]

48. Old name, old name, old name, old name, old name .......

Why did we have to bother with a name change? We are still talking about a stolen election (2004) and the need for election reform to keep it from happening again. I agree that we've toned down the name when -- if anything -- we need to ratchet it up.

How about "Wanted Dead or Alive: The 2004 Election Thieves Posse"?

[meganmonkey]

54. Names change here, it's how it goes

This one used to be called GD: Campaign 2004

or something like that. It changed on Nov. 3 or 4.

[sepia_steel]

56. I miss it, too.

The posts haven't changed here, don't see why the name needed to. oh, well.

[helderheid]

60. I SO agree.

[zann725]

61. Me too! "Election Reform" says 'move on, focus on the future...'

which makes us lose the "power" of NOW.

Though I assume the name decision is over my reach (sigh). Guess I'll get use to it.

[ccarter84]

62. agreed, lets hope a new community forms soon though n/t

[texpatriot2004]

63. Yeah, me too, I like the old name better. There was comfort in it.

:cry:

[imaginary girl]

64. Sure, a name change isn't the biggest issue on the plate, but

I think changing the name is making some of us feel that we're being forced to let go of our hopes of this election somehow being overturned (through legal/unspinnable evidence of fraud, etc.)

That's what it kinda feels like to me, anyway ... and I'm not ready to let go of those hopes yet ...

[anamandujano]

65. I agree

I think that the 2004 election was the last straw and political time should stop with it.

It does feel too much like moving on. I am on a break though and spend just a few minutes here a day instead of hours and hours.

The idea that the people who have stolen the last few elections and untold congressional seats will allow any progress in reform is kind of ridiculous. There will be no bills brought to the floor, no debates, no press. We will only hear of more money granted by the usurper to allow more machines to be bought until they are everywhere.

Maybe if the court cases get going we will all feel revived. I am tired.

[New Earth]

68. i'm afraid

i'm gonna end up slipping away from this forum or this board in general.

:cry:

[FreepFryer]

69. Why, Faye? (n/t)

[New Earth]

71. because

i love the people in this forum and i really am not looking forward to going into GD just to see a long list of replies that say 'Ignored'. the shit i see about Kerry in there makes me want jump the hell out my window after breaking it. :cry:

just seems with the old name we got away with a lot more O/T threads.

[FreepFryer]

74. Very true - but we may yet again. These kinds of arbitrary 'naming' issues

are usually more bluster than muster.

Whatever happens, I am certain the practical reality will be a forum with a wide, useful volume of election, elector-, or candidate-related issues.

As I said before, I believe it is NOT INAPPROPRIATE for threads about Kerry, Boxer, etc., to be raised here as well, even if they don't directly tie into vote-related issues.

Learning about these individuals, and growing an understanding support for them, will only empower further the current and future actions they will take.

That's my read on it, anyway... and for now, I'm stickin' to it!

[spooked]

76. Faye, please know you're not alone

and as bad as we feel, it can't even compare with what Kerry must be feeling right now...another $80 BILLION for War, and helpless to do anything for the American citizens he was fighting for as the War Machine marches on...

And so, I guess the final lesson is EVIL IS POWERFUL.

Time To Cocoon for the Winter. I'm picking a pink one.

[Patsy Stone]

70. Me, too n/t

[loudsue]

72. Me three. How 'bout: Election Fraud: Research & Activism Forum???

I also second the motion that I'm getting pretty fed up with all the conservatives hacking the DU activism!! Every time TruthIsAll gets going, the same wingnuts come along to sing in chorus that Kerry LOST, or he's a "loser", or "get over it, they won fair & square".

I think NOT!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[spooked]

75. I love ELECTION FRAUD: RESEARCH AND ACTIVISM!

It was our own fruitful research--DESPITE what the MSM was feeding us--that was so exciting here...and there is so much yet to do, along with FRAUD INVESTIGATION of illegal activities!

REFORM for 2008??? Sorry, I'm just not there yet.

[kster]

73. Me to but

the last week or so (Election 2004 Results & Discussion)was all over the place, maybe the new name will keep it more focused .We will have to see.

[Peace Patriot]

79. I didn't think it mattered much until today, when moderators...

...transferred our live reports on the Condi Rice nomination--the culmination of weeks of effort here at the Election Forum--to the Political Forum, right in the middle of our reports and discussion. We lost participants. We lost reports. It was very confusing, and very upsetting.

So, I think there is an agenda going on to sever Election Reform from its obvious consequences in the on-going world of BushCon policy.

What bothers me most is the arbitariness of this decision today, and its timing. And the lack of explanation, and the lack of moderator response when I complained--the lack of accountability. Who did this? Why?

I have never seen anything like that happen before at DU.

[Karenca]

80. you explained perfectly how I'm feeling.

I don't think we are going to get anywhere as much important work done like before.
This is so sad.
DU is a fantastic vehicle for us to get the message out.
I'm afraid we're going to become a much softer voice now.

[New Earth]

82. hmm

i'm beginning to wonder if that's intentional.

[suffragette]

86. losing the connection

Before this forum felt like a wonderful tangle of interconnected issues, some more directly related to election fraud and reform and some more tangential, but still related.
It also had the feeling of a neighborhood within a city. Even though the city is home (DU), the neighborhood is where you go to hang out, reflect, argue, agree, draw energy and build community.
This all seemed to stem from the renaming of the forum and the attempt to refocus more strongly on the central issues of fraud and reform, but it is starting to feel exclusionary where before it felt inclusive. I, too, miss the old forum and more open format.

[New Earth]

81. i did see AmerDem asking in ATA forum

to come in here and move threads. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x28793

let's give him a big round of applause :crazy: :eyes:

[Karenca]

85. Wasn't that thoughtful of him

The voice of one as opposed to the voices of hundreds. :evilfrown:

[Patsy Stone]

87. You know what?

I believe that was the same person who complained about the Olbermann threads (with floaty hearts) in ATA. Hmm... I'll find it for you when the archives are back.
And :hi: Faye!

[New Earth]

88. yup i think it's the same person

hi Patsy :hi:

[Karenca]

90. In his own words.........

Check Post#4


AmerDem:
<<<<<Right now we have threads on nitwit subjects like "Olberman polls" getting much more feedback than threads on contacting Sensenbrenner the man who is responsible for allowing election irregularity hearings to begin. Do you not see a problem in this? Are you not aware of the many many other forums here at DU?>>>>>>>

[seito]

84. I see your point and I agree.

:(

[marions ghost]

95. I agree

and I am more concerned about the decisions about content of the forum than I am about the name change.

We are creating our own context for this discussion and we need to keep our group together. We have developed an effective synergy.
How can we continue to do this?

Please don't leave peace patriot--I was using your posts for action on a regular basis.

It's discouraging. We have to find a way to overcome this.

[Al-CIAda]

83. Miss the old name, placement in forum selection, and the way the rules

seem to have changed -to the forum's detrament -IMO

[darkworkz]

89. The trick now is to couch everything inside of the forums heading.

This is actually an opportunity to become that much more focused on a series of critical issues and move them forward at lightning speed.

Sure a lot of the community chatter is gone now. But that can still exist inside of this new arena.

Look to rebuild the "noise" with messages of analysis, plans, and action. As much as some my not like the change, this change can be transformed into something much more powerful than is immediately noticeable.

Don't let dust gather, keep forging ahead. What your after is nearly in hand.

[SueZhope]

91. I agree

I feel all of balance and
cant seem to figure out were to go, I feel lost.

I know its the same but topics are getting moved
and the reorganization is confusing .:shrug:

[anaxarchos]

92. This is just 'Get Over It' in a new guise...

...just read the posts above.

It's a mistake.

[Karenca]

93. EVERYONE SHOULD WRITE TO THE ADMINS.

I just did...
It's unbelievable that this format has been changed because of the opinion of one-pissed-off dem.

[RaulVB]

94. Quite amazing, eh? (n/t)

[Karenca]

96. We've been changed back!!! REFRESH THE PAGE!! :))

:grouphug:

[spooked]

97. Awesome!! Welcome Home!!!

[New Earth]

98. lol awwww

[Skinner]

99. The old name is back.

I'm locking.