Poll: Name the group

[understandinglife]

Quite a bit of discussion about the name of the group. Thought that we could try two things:

1. A poll with some suggested names, coupled with;

2. Anyone can post a comment with a suggested name and others can reply to that comment with a yes or no, thereby ensuring that if someone devises a really great name and its not in the poll list, that we only have to go through one iteration of this process.

Would be most efficient if everyone either voted for a name in the poll; or posted a name + "nt" in the subject line; or a "yes"/"no" + "nt" in the subject line in response to a name suggestion.

Whichever name gets the most votes in the next 24 hours can be SUGGESTED to the Administrators as the name supported by the majority. In other words, I'm happy to be here and am not remotely trying to tell either the DU administrators or anyone else what the name of this dynamic and wonderful group should be (i'll just cast my 1 vote, without comment).

Thank you.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7

[meganmonkey]

1. I picked the third one, I think the words Fraud and Reform need to both

be in it. Once the fraud is exposed, we need to REFORM the system. There is no point of one without the other!

Thank you for posting this poll! I don't know if it will change their minds, but it is worth a shot!

:hi:

[mirrera]

14. Darn! I meant to vote for yours, it is perfect!

I voted for the wrong one! I like "Stop fraud" and "reform" to be in it. I also think 2004 should be used but I can't think how. The "indict" may scare people that think they have to understand law, away. I REALLY think the name fraud has to be in it for new people. If I were just now coming on one of those wonderful "be the media" posters, and started to google potential fraud in this last election, we have LOST valuable search words. "2004" is
gone, and now "fraud" is gone. Bad...
BUT as Faye said the name doesn't matter in the end...

[New Earth]

15. i didn't say that

i think it does matter, a lot.

i'm just trying to control my temper :o i just said *I'm* going to try not to pay attention to the name.

IT NEEDS TO SAY FRAUD, PEOPLE NEED TO GET USED TO THE WORD.

i feel better now :D

[spooked]

19. You make me feel better too

:grouphug:

[mirrera]

36. SORRY!

I didn't mean to mis represent you! I feel like it matters, but the work has to move forward. Anyway I am so new, I feel like I am in High School, trying not to piss off the wrong people...

[emcguffie]

63. can "expose" be in the name?

Because I think what we have to do is expose the fraud that has taken place, not just reform and prevent.

[Der Blaue Engel]

2. I asked in ATA yesterday whether we could vote on this issue

The answer I received was "Sorry, the name has already been changed."

While I would like to see the word "fraud" in the name as well, I think the point is unfortunately moot.

on edit: FWIW, I would prefer something more like "Election Fraud and Reform Discussion," but there is no "other" category, so I think any suggestions within responses will get lost within the overall vote.

[Amaryllis]

54. Election fraud and reform action forum.

[RaulVB]

3. I picked No 5

Investigation and indictment are necessary.

Thanks for doing this poll!

[understandinglife]

4. I agree. We will never see reform if we don't document the criminal...

...acts, indict the criminals, and, thereby, educate our fellow citizens of the scale of the assault on our American franchise of democracy.

Once the scale of the assault is understood we can advocate as to gather the energy (large numbers of our fellow citizens) to demand legislative reform of our election system.

Peace.

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7 (aka TBO;24/7)

[Amaryllis]

55. We can still do all that under election reform. We wouldn't need reform

if we didn't have fraud. Why do people think fraud isn't included in reform?

[troubleinwinter]

5. 'Election Justice and Reform'.... taken partly from

Barbara Boxer's phrase.

I want investigation and prosecution of the fraud. But I think "Justice" works as well as "fraud". Lots of people seem to freak at the fraud word... we want them to join us anyway, and learn.

But leaving it completely out of the name does not help us draw those new people who are interested in FRAUD/JUSTICE.

[suffragette]

7. yes n/t

Demanding justice, honoring Boxer and working to reform.
Love that combo

[Beth in VT]

16. I agree - "fraud" sounds shrill,

"justice" says what we're for, not against, and encompasses fraud.

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. "Stop Election Fraud: Indict, Legislate, Advocate"

I add my vote to this option in lieu of my suggested name, rather than being a "third-party candidate" and diluting the vote. ;)

[understandinglife]

8. Cool!!! Appreciate the cohesive spirit in your vote!

I raise my glass to you :toast:

Peace.

[meganmonkey]

9. I'll second that!

:toast:

[Der Blaue Engel]

11. Thanks!

:D

:toast:

[AmerDem]

10. "Quite a bit of discussion about the name of the group."?

It's more like a handful of people who have a difficult time dealing with reality.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmerDem]

21. Oh look it here another repuke referrence

How cute a keyboard jockey slandering a long time fellow DUer. I'm waiting on some feedback from the powers that be before I really tell how things are!

[New Earth]

22. how long anyone has been here means nothing

i think everyone here should know that by now.

[AmerDem]

23. nice

proudly showing how long one was contributing to DU is now a sin but repeated references to fellow DUers being repuke is not. You might do yourself a favor next time and not get in the middle of a conversation that had absolutely nothing to do with you.

[New Earth]

25. ok, so i'm now not allowed to post in this thread....

ok.

"How cute a keyboard jockey slandering a long time fellow DUer. I'm waiting on some feedback from the powers that be before I really tell how things are!".

nice.

[AmerDem]

26. look for trouble somewhere else

are you lonely or something?:freak:

[New Earth]

27. no

just bored :D

[AmerDem]

31. sorry

i shouldnt have gone that far.

[troubleinwinter]

28. To think

that I accused you of being a Repub is preposterous. I asked if you were joking, as you used the exact words that are used against us, saying that discussion of an issue indicated that we "have a difficult time dealing with reality".

It seemed like it must be a joke, right? Well, it did until you refered to me as a "keyboard jockey".

Looking forward to the time you can "really tell how things are!"

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[troubleinwinter]

30. Not only

did I not say that you (or any one else) were a "repuke" (a word I do not use) at any time, I certainly did not make "repeated references to fellow DUers being repuke".

If you think I did, hit 'alert'.

[Der Blaue Engel]

12. Okay, now who just voted for my obsolete option 6?

Could it be someone who wanted to dilute the vote? LOL

:silly:

[understandinglife]

13. LOL indeed!! (n/t)

[Der Blaue Engel]

17. I hereby declare that a vote for 6 is a vote for 5

(ducking)

[understandinglife]

18. ROFLMAO!!! You're one brave soul!!! (n/t)

[phantomvotes]

35. This is good but

after the name is decided on, I believe a spin off forum with categorized folder subject matter should be created. Organization is the key or it will continue into speculative chatter.

IDEOLOGY:

Stop Election Fraud: Indict, Legislate, Advocate:

1) FRAUD: THE EVIDENCE and PROOF :

2) LAWS and INDICT: THE POWER ADVOCATES:

3) GROUP SOUNDING BOARD:


MY IDEA-------------> NEVER AGAIN my COUNTRY:
N- NO = resitance now to their cover ups ( past & present)= court proceedings wins loses
E- EVIDENCE/PROOF = evidence& documentation (past & present {key board armies}).
V- VERIFY IT it = new evidence to be investigated by investigative crew )
E- EVIDENCE/PROOF = evidence documentation acquired by foot work {on the ground foot army- {precinct, county, state, country, globe}
R- Resistance, Advocacy, Revolution (no more brainwashing denial propaganda- {ads, state spokesmen, wars frivolous law making changing crap}

[understandinglife]

37. Very solid suggestions and I agree with the need for focus ....

...& organization of the ongoing endeavor.

It is essential that we keep the problem requiring legal, legislative and advocacy (election system literacy) in focus at all times -- that problem is Election Fraud.

"Reform" did not happen between 2000 and 2004 because the reasons justifying the reform were never brought to our fellow citizens in a compelling, justified manner.

Continued diligent analysis and investigation and legal activity against the perpetrators of any and every form of election fraud will provide the compelling justification and the necessary motivations for our fellow citizens to demand and support legislative reform, including a Constitutional ammendment on voter's rights.

Peace.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7 (aka TBO;24/7)

[Ken065]

41. I'll second that

since that's what I intended when I voted for 6. :dunce:

[Pooka Fey]

73. HAHAHAHAHA. I propose a rider to the group name change

legislation pending --- stating that at least 10% of the board participants remind the rest of us to keep our senses of humor in working order at all times.

[understandinglife]

76. Fully agree about full support for humor in this forum -- wish the KOEB ..

...would return and post here every weekday evening. Their spirit and fun added some warmth and laughter after another grinding day of investigating and stomping election fraud and finding ever more reasons to prosecute shrub and the neoconsters.

Peace.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7

[RevCheesehead]

85. Be careful about what you wish for...

because you just might get it! :)

Thanks for the kind words, UL! And these are for you: :loveya:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

74. I did it!

And I wish I could change my vote to #5, so count it that way if you'd like! :D

[understandinglife]

75. Will do!! ;-) (nt)

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7

[LittleClarkie]

24. Gee, I tried to vote for one, but it registered as a vote for five

I object to this electronic voting. We should mail our votes to the moderators instead. Paper trails!

[understandinglife]

33. Go for it!!! What street address and zip do we use for DU ?? (n/t)

BE THE BUSH OPPOSIITON;24/7 (aka TBO;24/7)

[Amaryllis]

29. Election fraud and reform action forum. Simple. If you feel strongly that

fraud needs to be in there. I in no way see that the current name excludes fraud,as dealing wtih and preventing fraud is the whole reason we need reform.

[AntiFascist]

32. Fraud, indict...

the investigation is far from over!!!!

[nashuaadvocate]

38. Why don't people see that "election reform" encompasses uncovering fraud?

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive. "Fraud" is a sub-category of the need for reform of the system. Calling this board "Election Reform Advocacy and Action" *IN NO WAY* chills people from posting fraud-related news...(!) In fact I can't even wrap my mind around the argument...

-- TNE

[phantomvotes]

39. U go man !

My thoughts EXACTLY

[AmerDem]

40. pathetic isn't it?

there are literally a handful of people that have been continuing this by multi posting from similar thread to similar thread.

[RaulVB]

46. Talking about yourself, "pal"? (n/t)

[Melissa G]

43. There are some folks who get on Fraud threads and disrupt

the conversation by insisting there was not Fraud. It is annoying to those of us who want to have a conversation about it. In my experience they bring their freepy friends in and kill the thread. That is why some of us would like fraWd to be explicit in the title and purpose of the group.

[understandinglife]

44. Because it is not just 'reform' that is required; and because explicit...

...statements of purpose typically precede action.

The actions include:

1. criminal investigations;

2. election fraud and disenfranchisement 'literacy' programs;

3. discussion of various legislative approaches to reform (including both the system by which people vote and an explicit Constitutional protection of their right to vote);

4. the actual process of effecting those reforms;

5. and the strategies for advocacy, including blunting attacks with all those who have much to fear and lose from both the legal actions and reforms we will make happen.

You have the cart miles in front of the horse. "Reform" will meet with a resounding "what & why" from the vast majority of our fellow citizens. And that will not change until we exhaustively document and force prosecution of those who disenfranchised voters in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

And we have all the failed efforts at 'reform' in the 107th and 108th US Congress as more than ample proof that until we educate our fellow citizens with an 'election fraud and disenfranchisement literacy program' we will get nowhere with 'reform.'

It is time to get absolutely explicit: STOP ELECTION FRAUD.

Investigate and prosecute the perpetrators; define and prepare all the required legislation; educate our fellow citizens; pass the legislation; and then we have reformed the system.

Reform is a consequence of having everyone focused on the fact that election fraud has criminally crippled our American franchise of democracy.

Thank you for all your outstanding contributions; way more than I'm likely ever to make and please know the above comments are made in that spirit.

Peace.

TBO;24/7

[RaulVB]

45. Is about MARKETING (because the truth "doesn't matter" anymore)

I'm sure you are aware of WHO controls the message and the LANGUAGE used in politics today.

"Education" and "reform" will come AFTER the crime is exposed, not before the fraudulent system is broken down. Are the people behind the fraud going to "cooperate" with your/our reform "push"?

How? When? Why should they?

Regards

[Amaryllis]

56. That's exactly what I keep saying. Wouldn't be need for reform if no fraud

[ClassWarrior]

42. I say name it Timmy.

No, seriously, just call it Election Reform.

(Damn Progressives always want to complicate stuff. <LOL>)

NGU.

[Bill Bored]

47. Wait a minute!

We had only 24 hours to vote? How come we didn't have early voting for weeks in advance?

And suppose someone posted a "write-in" name for the group, followed by n/t, or answered Yes to one of these, and then went ahead and voted for one of the poll choices anyway? What mechanism is there for detecting overvotets?

And what about all the people who post here for which no vote is even recorded?

And for the Republicans in the group: What if someone clicks their mouse and (heaven forbid) drops dead just before their post actually gets to the web server? How can we tell if any dead people are voting?

And should there by instant runoffs in case one of the choices on the poll is acceptable to a voter, but he or she prefers to post a write-in? Why should they have to give up voting for a choice in the poll just to be able to cast their write-in vote?

And suppose someone has a slow Internet connection and gets online just as the 24-hours is about to end and the poll is closed before they have a chance to vote? Can they send in their vote provisionally via PM or Email? And if they do so, how do they know if it will actually be counted?

And is there a way to verify that the vote I cast that appears on the screen is actually the vote I intended to cast? Maybe someone else voted as I did at the same time and their vote counted but mine didn't. There's NO PAPER TRAIL!

And where does it say explicitly in the DU rules that we even HAVE a right to vote for Forum Names? Maybe we should leave that up to each of the forums instead? We can have forums that let their posters change their name everyday if they want to, and forums that NEVER vote for their names. I think the issue of Forums' Rights deserves SOME consideration.

And what about recounts? How much would it cost to have the moderators get together and recount all the votes, and how do we know they will do it fairly? After all, they might just want to spend some time with their families and friends after a stressful poll like this and come up with ANY old name so they can just go offline and relax?

Maybe we can just contract someone else to count our votes for us. Like FreeRepublic maybe? After all, they have no vested interest in the outcome, do they?

On second thought, I'm glad this name change election is over, even though concessions are of course non-binding. I don't think anyone has actually conceded yet, have they? But if they have, and we find some wrongdoing, what the heck -- just unconcede!

Personally, I like the new name, but we really should have had an exit poll. ;-)

[Der Blaue Engel]

48. "I don't think anyone has actually conceded yet, have they?"

Sure they have...I conceded way up on post #6. :D

[understandinglife]

50. Lovely, brilliant, in fact!! Very much appreciated and....

...I thought it exceptionally ironic that NO form of 'vote' had occurred in a group so intensively focused on the sanctity of 'voting'!!!

The 24 h 'balloting interval' is entirely arbitrary, but constraints are useful mechanism to achieve focus -- and, given many of the responses (and the voting pattern that is emerging) the constraint is working.

I expect that by the time we reach the 24h point on this thread we may well have 'fraud,' no matter what the 'frame' as a necessary component of the 'name.' We can then refine and vote for for a binary choice: name that includes 'fraud'; name that doesn't.

In any event, given the essence of what has bound and bonded so many of us since 2 Nov 2004 -- it would be rather weird, to say the least, to change the name of our little community at DU, WITHOUT A VOTE!!! Don't ya thunk?????? :think:

Peace.


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7 (aka TBO;24/7)

[Amaryllis]

57. That was hysterically funny! Thank you.

[FreepFryer]

49. If this is a truly Democratic poll, it will require a 2/3rds majority...

...to change the admin-assigned name. See precedent up the wahoo.

{edit}Okay, maybe Representative Democratic. Let the games begin!{/edit}

[understandinglife]

51. To cool!! ;-) See post #50. (nt)

TBO;24/7

[bleever]

52. Election Forum. Because we want to talk: results, fraud, reform...

strategy, and everything else to do with making elections work and also winning them.

Election Forum.

:thumbsup:

[understandinglife]

53. "Stop Stolen Elections Forum": Because we want to investigate, indict,..

...legislate, advocate and ensure that we are forever vigilant to our American franchise of Democracy, and the Constitution on which it is based, are not destroyed?

Please do check post # 50 about the irony of a forum so passionately committed to the sanctity of 'the vote' never voted on its name!!

I do believe We The People of the United States of America ...will Form A More Perfect Union.....because we believe in and support one another.

Peace.

TBO;24/7

[Amaryllis]

58. Now that is brillliant in its simplicity.

[emlev]

59. Election Justice--Advocacy and Action n/t

[myschkin]

60. what about Election Fraud INVESTIGATION

}(

[greenmutha]

61. "ELECTORAL JUSTICE & REFORM"

Taken, (gratefully), from John Conyers' endorsement letter to Howard Dean on 01-11-05.

Sorry to muddy the waters, but I think it is concise and speaks to what we are all about.

[NationalEnquirer]

62. Lets stick with something that CAN be agreed upon by all.

NO way to convince the majority about the fraud.
But MOST people DO want fair elections.
Thats the drum we should be beating on.

[emcguffie]

64. ELECTION FRAUD EXPOSE (NEED ACCENT THERE)

Something with "expose" in it. or ex-pos-ay, I don't know how to do the accent here.

I think we need to expose it, more than anything else.

[Riding this Donkey]

65. CARToV

I know this is not the best acronym, we all know fraud occurred, but the question is what to do about it so it will never happen again.

We need to have not just election reform or another program, but a Constitutional Right to Vote. We can frame all of our issues under this umbrella and get people thinking about a larger picture.

I was watching Jesse Jackson Jr. yesterday and he put this perfectly.

We all have our own issues that we want brought to the fore front. But we don't work together to get the power we need to make differences for all of us. We don't work together, we get defined by one issue or another and our bigger message does not get out their. BTW, I am all for proving fraud and to keep investigating, but we can work two angles at once, right?

CARToV = Constitutional Amendement Right to Vote

I know this is not eloquent, but I hope people can understand what I mean.

[understandinglife]

66. Will be sending the results, with a request to the DU admins...

....at ~ 415pm PST.

The request will be that they either accept the name that received the most votes or host a poll of the top two choices, with simple majority winning name being adopted.

As I mentioned in one of the comments, it is ironic that a forum, so passionately committed to uncovering election fraud and fostering election reform, did not vote on its name change. Well, we now have voted and hopefully the administrators will be supportive of the outcome.

In any event, this is a remarkable gathering of committed citizens and hopefully the spirit of "I believe" will continue to be nurtured and propagated by this forum.

Peace.

TBO;24/7

[FreepFryer]

67. Don't be disheartened if the name isn't changed. DU isn't a Democracy...

...but your sentiments are well-intentioned and well-appreciated.

[New Earth]

68. LOL

you are killing me today!

[FreepFryer]

70. Ah, to be appreciated in one's own lifetime! Somebody finally gets me! n/t

[understandinglife]

72. I'm not easily 'disheartened', as you may already have suspected ;-)

Thank you and here's one for your kind concern :toast:


BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7

[loudsue]

69. Election Fraud: Research and Activism "or" 2004 Election Fraud: Res. & Ac

If we use 2004 Election Fraud, it gives it the sense of urgency that "right here and now" urges. Besides, it's the one that has FINALLY gotten some people in BOTH the House AND the Senate interested in it! (But we can still go back to election 2000 for some of the research, because much of it obviously applies to our investigations).

There are finally many blogsters and articles and congress members getting involved, not to mention the court cases that are coming down the pike, so "2004 Election Fraud: Research & Activism" says a lot.

The other names proposed are just sort of, milk toast, and don't hit hard enough, nor urgently enough, for my taste. I think we need to tackle this issue head on.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Pooka Fey]

71. I picked number 5 because..........

It uses the word "Fraud" which is what we are dealing with. It also has sub-headings to spell out different types of actions in which to fight the fraud. To me calling our movement 'reform' just gives the repugs 4 years to nod and smile at us while they figure out new ways to cheat.

I've been out in the clubs the last few nights talking to people, and as far as I can tell - EVERYBODY KNOWS ** STOLE THIS ONE - they know about the paperless voting machines (which is just crazy); and they know about the voter disenfranchisement in Ohio.

The problem isn't that nobody knows about the fraud, it's that nobody thinks we can do anything to stop **Inc.

[all.of.me]

77. Electoral Justice

I think the name of the group is fine, but if it were to change, I voted 'other,' and suggest Electoral Justice.

I love Boxer's phrase. Plain and simple. I'm sure it'll go down in history whether we use it or not!

I don't like the word 'Stop' in the name. It's got a negative feel to it. I also feel like we need to move forward. What's done is done, and we need to take action for the future.

[understandinglife]

78. Posted at AtA: A request from the election fraud-busters, reform planners,

...and advocates.

Given that our focus is on stolen (aka fraudulent, disenfranchising) elections and all that needs to be accomplished to prevent another one, it is perhaps ironic that the name of the forum was changed without allowing those who have contributed so much to it vote.

I took the liberty (and appreciate your allowing it to happen) of offering a poll and the community voted.

The winning name is:

Stop Stolen Elections: Indict, Legislate, Advocate

It is a powerful name and one that encompasses the categories of activities that must be pursued if we are going to prevent another fraudulent, disenfranchising election.

If you are not willing to accept the vote and change the name would you be willing to sponsor a poll with the top two and accept an simple majority vote?

Stop Stolen Elections: Indict, Legislate, Advocate

Election Reform Advocacy and Action

For reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=302897&mesg_id=302897


Thank you for your consideration of these requests. I hope you will, indeed, continue to nurture this particular forum and perhaps allow it to function in a manner similar to the unique approach to grassroots activism fostered by Howard Dean.

Peace.

___________________________________________

A few thoughts to share with all of you, not included in the post at AtA.

To everyone who have made this forum very much like a community, I’d like to suggest that a bit of liberalism, of respect for diversity, be nurtured in our fraud-buster, reformist group. For instance, maybe we could welcome the wonderful KOEB nightly thread to return to our ‘home.’ Those needing a moment of mirth, a bit of escape from the grueling efforts to stomp election fraud would find that thread quite refreshing (note: I’m a straight male, even more happy with my wife now than when we were married ~ 35 years ago).

And, the occasional apparently tangential thread that a member of the community wants to bring to everyone’s attention should be encouraged; especially if it’s a topic that many of us are interested or/and one that requires immediate advocacy or support (e.g., supporting Senator Boxer and others who are showing the world our collective disgust with Ms Rice – a truly crucial message to help save any hope our efforts to promote Democracy will be ever again be credible).

Thank you all for your responses to the poll.

Irrespective of the outcome of the request to the DU administrators, I hope we can find creative ways to continue to grow the spirit of our special, intense, and fun DU forum (community).

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7 (aka TBO;24/7)

(at time of posting to AtA; top two were, ERAA - 35 votes; SSEILA - 42 votes.)

[troubleinwinter]

79. I agree with your KOEB thoughts...

It's nice to take a coffee break at the end of a long day of activism (research, analysis, emailing, phoning, writing, etc.).

KO is part of our work. He has been our only voice in major media. He is listed in the Hall of Fame on the http://thankyoupatriot.com/ site.

It says:

"Keith Olbermann

A special thanks must go to Mr. Olbermann, the only voice on any news network that dared to follow the story of the aftermath of the 2004 election from the moment Congressmen Conyers, Nadler and Wexler sent their letter to the GAO requesting an investigation into the Ohio election right up to the Elector challenge on January 6. Further, he did so without making a statement about what he thought of the proceedings or of the evidence, and without making denigrating comments about the thousands of people who were suspicious of the results as the list of "anomalies" and "irregularities" grew with every passing day - never did he call them "conspiracy theorists," "tinfoil hatters" or any other pejorative. He interviewed principles to get the latest news, and did so fairly. In short, he covered the story like a journalist. In a society that is allegedly concerned with the checks and balances that measure government integrity, his lone voice in an apathetic wilderness was loud and clear. Those interested in the truth owe him a huge debt of gratitude."

[understandinglife]

80. I'm glad you agree and I think we need to encourage and be...

...mutually supportive of both some fun and 'off topic' threads that may appear tangential but to the member of our forum who posts them, the topic may well be relevant to the overall mission and goals of this forum.

In any event, a bit of flexibility and congeniality go along way to sustaining everyone's enthusiasm for what is going to be a mega-hard task -- saving our American franchise of democracy from destruction; restoring some credibility in what "America" means.

Peace.

TBO;24/7

[New Earth]

81. i am totally with you

i also think we should be able to have the KOEB threads here. this IS where he got a good part his popularity anyway. i also wish threads like earlier on senate hearings were allowed here too - the people here are very comfortable together and we have all developed a sense of bonding within the group throughout the roller-coaster of events in the last few months.

i'm afraid that if the rules of this forum get too strict, people will feel awkward and not know what to do and may feel hesitant to post.

and, we definately need the word FRAUD in the name. no doubt.

[Der Blaue Engel]

82. All of this is quite frustrating

I believe the impetus for those calling for focus and a name change was the desire to weed out completely irrelevant and defeatist threads like "Dems suck," "Kerry sucks," "you're a fool if you believe there was fraud." NOT to get rid of what made this forum great: The constant flow of new information and the camaraderie.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.

:crazy:

[New Earth]

83. exactly

i thought the change would be geared more to weeding out the naysayers so we can focus on making a change in this country without disruption.

[understandinglife]

84. Here's something I posted to "peace patriot" in another thread..

...that I want to share particularly with you and Faye:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=304399&mesg_id=304399

Perhaps we should just consider today a 'stress test' to our very effective and passionate community of fraud-busters, election reformists and democracy advocates and activists.

Let's accept the 'stress test' for what it is and use it as just one more 'steeling' event. Let's us read "I believe"; see all the names and all the responses and know that that is what this forum -- this COMMUNITY has become at DU.

And, let us bond even closer and refuse to ever allow anything to disrupt our passionate commitment to saving our American franchise of democracy.

We are creative, flexible, adaptive and determined citizens and we've just had another experience, together, and let's make the most of it.

No one can tell us that supporting Senator Boxer in every way is not essential to having her respond to our strategies and plans for investigating those who perpetrate election fraud and disenfranchisement and our strategies and plans for both a voters rights Constitutional ammendment and extensive reform of the format for voting.

And let's open our minds and our fun spirit to the KOEBers and welcome them to post that thread every week night. Those who don't care for color of tie debates and floatie hearts aren't required to read the thread. But, so much spirit and fun are associated with that particular 'tradition' and KO is still one of the few voices in the msm we've got. So, let's have fun and suppport the guy in all ways possible.

Peace.

AND NEVER FORGET TO BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7

[Scatamooch]

86. How The Right Wing Stole The West Wing...Again!

[Moderator]

87. Locking

The poll question is now moot as the name has been changed. Please direct further commentary about the group name to the Ask the Administrator forum. Thank you.

Moderator