Kerry lost many thousands of votes from straight Dem voters whose vote

[berniew1]

either went to Bush rather than Kerry or to blank because of the way the electronic machines were programmed in at least 6 states. The Dems didn't pay any attention to the way the ballots and machines were set up and programmed and lost hundreds of thousands of votes because of the way the counting programs were set up(some would say rigged). Same as in 2000. Gore lost enough by such schemes to cost him the eleciton in 2000- from voters intending to vote for Gore in florida. Of course it took suppression/manipulation of about 100,000 Gore votes in Florida by various ways to swing Florida to Bush- its been found.

[Boredtodeath]

1. Found?

By whom? Does someone have proof of this? (please say it's so!)

[alittlelark]

22. over 500 posts... you should know w/o direction.

[Stevepol]

24. I believe the reference was to the ex-felons list et al. that Palast found

Greg Palast, probably the best and maybe the only real investigative journalist left, found the information about the ex-felon list aboiuut a week or so into the FL recount in 2000 and it was published widely in England and Europe and only made the states 3 or 4 years later. You can find out all this by googling Greg Palast and doing a little research if you're interested in doing such things.

[berniew1]

2. Here's an example from North Carolina- thousands lost in this county

and lots more in other counties; similar in Texas, Indiana, Wisconsin, South Carolina, several other states. Straight Dem voter votes typically did not count for Kerry because of the way the machines were programmed.

Elections chief plans to keep voting machines

Jan. 23, 2005
HANNAH MITCHELL AND MARK JOHNSON
Staff Writers

Many Burke County voters could have been confused by the electronic ballots
used in November, and the county's election director said Burke may change
the ballot format but he has no plans to change the voting machines.

More than 10 percent of voters who cast ballots in Burke did not vote in
the presidential race -- a rate that was four to five times higher than
nearly all other N.C. counties.

N.C. Board of Elections officials have concluded that voters could have
been confused by the electronic ballots, which listed the straight-party
ticket on the same screen as the presidential election.

A straight-party vote, which selects all candidates from the selected
party, applies to all races except for president, a distinction in North
Carolina that dates back to the 1960s and continues to confuse voters.

Burke voters easily could have thought a straight party vote included the
presidency unless they carefully read the wording, Don Wright, general
counsel for the state board who visited Burke, has said.

But the undervote in Burke also was high for other offices that were
included in the straight-party selection.

Greer Suttlemyre Jr., Burke elections board director, said he will likely
propose that the straight-party and presidential selections be put on
different screens on the county's electronic voting machines in the future.

"That will be a matter our board will have to discuss in four years when it
comes up," Suttlemyre said. "As far as our election equipment, we don't
have money to replace it. At this point, we have no reason to think our
equipment has not done an accurate count."

Suttlemyre said he has no idea what may have caused high undervotes for
other offices included in the straight-party selection.

"I'm open to suggestions" on how to avoid high undervotes for those
offices, Suttlemyre said.

State officials are investigating the voting problems. "I suspect there
will be suggestions coming from there on what we as a state, as well as we
as a county, will do," he said.

But he said the county does not plan to change the Unilect electronic
voting machines, the same type used in Carteret County, where 4,438 votes
were lost in November's election. The county paid $546,650 for the Unilect
models, which were first used in 2000.

Suttlemyre speculated that part of the problem may have been lack of
familiarity with the machines by voters who did not cast ballots in 2000.

"It was a record turnout (this year)," he said. "That means people voted
who may never have voted on the touch screen."

Burke County officials want to avoid future high undervotes, Suttlemyre
said. "We're certainly willing to do what is thought appropriate by the
state board and our board here to make it better for the voters."

.

[IronLionZion]

3. in that situation, Bush lost votes too

There's really no excuse for this. Elections in this country need to be standardized, transparent, and simple. Only then will they be accurate.

[burrowowl]

4. Sequoia Machines

defaulted to Bu$h

[MadisonProgressive]

12. Didn't New Mexico vote on all Sequioa machines?

[LeahD]

17. No

Here is a chart showing all of the different systems used in NM.


http://www.sos.state.nm.us/Election/VotingMachines.html

[burrowowl]

19. Bernalillo County

had 300, they were used for early voting.

[pansypoo53219]

5. i accidently voted straight ticket

and then hit every dem running anyways. BUT, i asked just to make sure.
if there is a mistake, the counting machine spits them out.

[SaveAmerica]

9. I love how he says

"I'm open to suggestions" on how to avoid high undervotes for those
offices, Suttlemyre said.

and turns around and says

But he said the county does not plan to change the Unilect electronic
voting machines,

Yeah, that's really open.

[BeFree]

10. Our biggest problem

Election Officials like that guy.

Reform must begin at the local elections offices. The problem is, if you're like me, one gets treated as if he were an insurgent when one asks questions. It's almost as if the elections office were a Gestapo office!

[pbartch]

14. HE IS A LIAR THEN ISN'T HE.

He says he's "open to suggestions" but then when the logical, fair thing is presented he says he has no plans to change.

HE IS A LIAR......PURE AND SIMPLE.

The voters should sue.

[Moderator]

13. berniew1

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source
and provide a link to
the source.


Thank you.

DU Moderator

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Just another reason all the Dems should have been standing up on Jan 6

As long as there is no real movement for election/voting reform, this kind of fraud will continue.

[Wilms]

7. What would more people standing accomplish?

Boxer got the job done. They got that debate.

A pie fight would result in the Repub controlled Houses voting for Bush, anyway. I think we'd have lost a lot.

Did you see many of the speeches the 11 (or so) senators gave when they went off to debate? I saw most, though not many of the Congressmembers. But senate-wise, it seemed a lot of ground-work was laid with the documents they got entered into the record. My hope is that's stuff that can be pulled into play at a certain point.

Or am I reading to much into that? I'd really like to see some more analysis of what was accomplished with the material entered into the record during the debate Boxer helped achieve.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. The dems never pay attention. 40,000 lawyers and what they

really needed was first year computer programmers.

[glitch]

18. Yep. I can't believe they didn't prepare for fraWd. After all they know

about the bfee, it just doesn't make sense.
:dem:

[NationalEnquirer]

11. I have changed my mind..

I had been for e-voting with a paper trail/reciept, but things like this just SCREAM for hand counted paper ballots.

[Kazak]

15. PAPER BALLOTS!!!

The machines must GO!!!!!!!

[findTruth]

16. The votes might be shifted to Bush or other people's column...

Notice it's always "one-way" shifting.. Is anyone doing a recount
in some part of NC?

[vmheatter]

20. The New Hampshire Review

Sorry to crash your thread, but I'm looking for a favor. I'm the Editor-in-Chief of new journal of poetry and politics called The New Hampshire Review. We're looking for progressive political essayists for inclusion in our inaugural issue. We've already had some outstanding poetry submissions, and expect our readers will be literary, but not necessarily political junkies. Therefore, essayists will have an opportunity to reach an audience which is unconverted, so to speak. As a new member at DU, I'm unable to start a new thread myself, and I'm wondering if someone would be kind enough to post our call for submissions on my behalf.

With thanks,

Virginia M. Heatter
Editor-in-Chief
The New Hampshire Review
P.O. Box 322
Nashua, New Hampshire 03061-0322
http://www.newhampshirereview.com

[loudsue]

21. Will be GLAD to!

:hi::toast::beer: And welcome to DU, Virginia!! :party::beer::hi:

:kick::kick::kick:

[Virginia Dem]

23. anyone have proof of votes being switched?

need some hard proof to put the smackdown on a freeper at my shop.

Threads here dont help...I need hard evidence.

[Stevepol]

25. Tell me what kind of proof would convince you?

There's enough statistical proof to fill a small crater somewhere. You can start w/ Steven Freeman on that or TruthIsAll on the DU site. As for other proof, you can start w/ the guy who testified to Bev Harris about patching the machines in GA after certification or who knows what else. There are maybe thousands of cases of voter suppression and so on, and various other illegalities in OH and FL. Just google around. If you are persistent you'll find them. But I suspect you wouldn't be convinced if the owner of ES&S broke down and confessed that he indeed had been in on the rigging of the election w/ his brother. It only takes one or two people in collusion when you have 80% of the vote being counted on DREs.

[NationalEnquirer]

26. WHAT ABOUT GAY VOTERS?!

I'll bet they had their votes changed too!

Ok, lame joke.
Sorry.