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Guys...I respect you all...but isn't this getting a little bit ridiculous?

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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 08:54 PM
Original message
Guys...I respect you all...but isn't this getting a little bit ridiculous?
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 09:01 PM by nashuaadvocate
The forum used to be called "Election 2004 Results and Discussion."

The forum is now called "Election Reform Advocacy and Reform."

I think we can all agree that the new board "topic" is VASTLY broader in scope than the old one, and indeed COMPLETELY encompasses the old one.

So if we want to focus on the "title" of the board, this forum just got a whole lot BIGGER.

How big?

Well, most of the folks here, going back to November of 2004, seem to think -- as I do, by the way -- that election reform is the single BIGGEST issue in American right now. (Not, incidentally, the seventh biggest -- as Sen. Harry Reid recently ranked it). Bigger than who gets nominated to what position in the Administration, bigger than who gets on the Supreme Court, bigger than any single one of Bush's lies -- or even all of them taken together. Why? BECAUSE WITHOUT ELECTION REFORM WE WILL NEVER WIN ANOTHER ELECTION AGAIN. EVER.

That means we'll never get to nominate *anyone* -- qualified or not -- to be the Secretary of State for a Democratic Administration.

That means no Supreme Court Justices who respect the evolving standards of decency acknowledged by all the other nations of the world -- and half of this one.

That means no opportunity to show the world a Democratic Administration of integrity, which *doesn't* lie, *doesn't* deceive, *doesn't* say one thing and do another.

My feeling? The issue of election reform is so big -- including the 2004 election (fraud, irregularities, results, data, issues, all of it); civil rights issues; a thousand legislative avenues toward meaningful and timely election reform; plans for the Democratic Party for 2006 and 2008 -- that we could fill this board up with ONE POST PER MINUTE every minute of the day and still not exhaust the topic.

Now, the fact is, when the change in board title was made, other folks thought -- and still do thnk -- that the issue of election reform was and is SMALLER than other issues. That BUSH was the one big issue, and everything else was secondary: election reform was a "part" of the issue -- a symptom of the problem -- and was no greater or lesser in importance than, say, who the next Secretary of State is, or what the Bush Administration does in Iraq, or whether a talk-radio DJ criticizes progressives, and so on. These folks were and are WELL-MEANING and smart and committed and articulate and passionate -- and what they were looking for was just a place to converse with other progressives who hate Bush and neo-conservatism. They weren't strictly or even marginally committed to the OLD topic for this board, and they aren't singularly committed to the NEW topic, either.

But I ask you -- at what cost?

Aren't the Republicans beating us -- haven't they been beating us for the past TEN YEARS -- because we're divided?

And if we spin our wheels on a hundred different issues every day, all the while neglecting the ONE WHICH ENGULFS THEM ALL, what have we accomplished? What does railing against Bush or Rice or Gonzalez accomplish if we don't FIX an electoral system which is right now FIXED so that we progressives will never win another election and get all these b*stards out of office?

This forum is BIGGER than ever.

And if folks don't see that, they're missing -- I fear -- the forest for the trees.

The News Editor
The Nashua Advocate

P.S. My analysis suggests there has been precisely NO change in board activity since the board was re-titled (i.e. broadened in scope).
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darkworkz Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. The trick now is to couch everything inside of the forums heading.
This is actually an opportunity to become that much more focused on a series of critical issues and move them forward at lightning speed.

Sure a lot of the community chatter is gone now. But that can still exist inside of this new arena.

Look to rebuild the "noise" with messages of analysis, plans, and action. As much as some my not like the change, this change can be transformed into something much more powerful than is immediately noticeable. Don't let dust gather, keep forging ahead. What your after is nearly in hand.
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. its bizarre how a handful
of people rambled on about the name change. This happens alot here to go with changing events. To hear some of them you would think DU was closing down. Ridicules beyond words.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. We had a specific request from Barbara Boxer, the hero of Jan. 6, to...
...support her today in opposing the Condi Rice nomination. So we started a big pressure campaign, with a very active and activist set of posts. I poured my heart into it. I and many others worked very hard.

When the debate arrived today, we all got on line at this forum, where we've all been working and posting for months, and half way through the debate the post where we were reporting on the speeches disappeared from this forum--inexplicably, mysteriously. It then got bounced around DU, and we lost participants, reports, and time.

This is more than a name change. It is an agenda that all those participating in this campaign were wrong and didn't belong here. And we were never consulted about this.

It's breaking up a fine group of bloggers and activists. It's very damaging, in my opinion. At first I thought the name change didn't matter. Now I do.

I am very upset by this.

If there is going to be any election reform or even any discussion of it in Congress, Barbara Boxer is the key to it. And if we don't support her when she needs it, and show how strong our support can be, the election issue will drop off the national scene.

Something has come down here today. And it is causing me to consider leaving DU. I, too, consider election fraud and election reform to be THE issue, the first priority. I am committed to it. But I don't like this kind of arbitrariness. At a time when we should be doing followup, and thanking Senators, and reminding them of our FIRST PRIORITY issue, this action of the moderators has caused disorganization, confusion, and loss of participation.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Actually you're quite correct
Senator Boxer WAS COMMUNICATING WITH US using this outlet.

Thanks for pointing it out.
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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. PP, it *does* sound like perhaps things weren't handled well...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 09:52 PM by nashuaadvocate
...and I know that I for one feel badly about it. I don't know the "how" of the name-change; I know a new name was suggested, someone took it to the Powers That Be, and that's it.

I am *certain* that if you couch a post about Rice in the terms you just have -- that it's about supporting specific Senators who are committed to election reform -- no one will bat an eyelash.

If, in contrast -- and I'm not saying you were doing this, just speaking hypothetically -- the forum is going to be used for any and all progressive causes, I wonder how you think that's going to be effective?

Did we win on January 6th because we were talking not only about election reform, but also about who's going to be the new head of Homeland Security?

No.

-- TNE
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Perhaps we should just consider today a 'stress test' to our very...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 09:56 PM by understandinglife
...effective and passionate community of fraud-busters, election reformists and democracy advocates and activists.

Let's accept the 'stress test' for what it is and use it as just one more 'steeling' event. Let's us read "I believe"; see all the names and all the responses and know that that is what this forum -- this COMMUNITY has become at DU.

And, let us bond even closer and refuse to ever allow anything to disrupt our passionate commitment to saving our American franchise of democracy.

We are creative, flexible, adaptive and determined citizens and we've just had another experience, together, and let's make the most of it.

No one can tell us that supporting Senator Boxer in every way is not essential to having her respond to our strategies and plans for investigating those who perpetrate election fraud and disenfranchisement and our strategies and plans for both a voters rights Constitutional ammendment and extensive reform of the format for voting.

And let's open our minds and our fun spirit to the KOEBers and welcome them to post that thread every week night. Those who don't care for color of tie debates and floatie hearts aren't required to read the thread. But, so much spirit and fun are associated with that particular 'tradition' and KO is still one of the few voices in the msm we've got. So, let's have fun and suppport the guy in all ways possible.

Peace.

AND NEVER FORGET TO BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's all about agenda....

...there is nothing wrong with an agenda, but this one went in the back door.

...and many don't agree with it (the agenda, not the name). That IS a problem.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, we disagree with the agenda, it seems that way (n/t)
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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Fair enough...
...I can't speak to how it happened. I know as much as you all on that point.

-- TNE
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. What standards are you using?
Because traffic went down during the last 48 hours on this board.

Yours was a suggestion and we were free (I believed) to take it into consideration, accept it or reject it.

You see, the first two responses to your tread were quite interesting. Your take is that classical "advocacy" and "reform" are concepts that apply to the new reality. Fine.

Many of us DISAGREE because the reality dictated by the new regime is quite exceptional.

WE are NOT DEALING WITH THE REPUBLICANS OF RONALD REAGAN here.

This crowd is quite radical, with a clear extremist agenda, willing to do ANYTHING to destroy the Democrats.

Very simple, indeed.

Regards.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:43 PM
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7. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:53 PM
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16. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:55 PM
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19. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:00 PM
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. me?
what are you talking about?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:05 PM
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25. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:56 PM
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20. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:02 PM
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. God? (n/t)
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:06 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:07 PM
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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Compare...
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 09:47 PM by nashuaadvocate
...this time this week, to this time last week. No difference I can tell.

Doesn't seem fair to compare Mon./Tues. traffic with traffic from the weekend, does it? Apples and apples, oranges and oranges, I say.

-- TNE
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Hmm, not sure...
But might be the case, I give you that.

Regards
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. No; the Republicans have beaten you because you've not provided
...an alternative that they can vote for; Dems have failed to foment a revolt in the ranks of the Moderates on the other side of the aisle; Lincoln Chaffee, Olympia Snowe - that's the kind of people to which you should be appealing, and instead, you ran a guy who couldn't even say he was against the war, even though he was actually against it.

Kerry wasn't a flip-flopper; he just failed to stand for his beliefs, and people in the GOP thought it stunk.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Interesting analysis
Thanks for the comments although I don't agree with it entirely.
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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Snowe? Snowe?
Edited on Tue Jan-25-05 09:55 PM by nashuaadvocate
Republicans have been dangling SNOWE (and COLLINS) in front of progressives for years now, almost like some sort of door-prize.

Well, I for one am not biting anymore.

Those two do what they're told -- they toe the line.

Not interested.

Chaffee, on the other hand...

-- TNE
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Please take this to GD
If we're going to be stuck with this passive forum name, for God's sake, can we be spared the Kerry-bashing, "here's why you Dems have failed" posts?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. the name has changed
take a look :D
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-25-05 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
31. You are exactly right.
There has been precisely no change in board activity since it was retitled. But for some reason, nobody seemed to care.

Anyway, I'm locking this because it's moot now.
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