Let's discuss our priorities, shall we?

[Jo March]

During the time that it has taken to complain about the name of this damn forum, we could have sent so many faxes, emails and letters. Calls could have been made. Plans could have been made. We could have contacted other groups and gotten things done.

I just don't understand it, sometimes. I've been working so hard with others to get VOTE set up and I would have loved to have had some additional help getting data but nooooo. I posted for assistance in this forum and it was only responded to by a few folks. I was appreciative for their help because they rock but...

Well, my thread got 14 responses (half of them are mine) and the threads about the name change got 96, 84 and 26.

Nice, huh? Where are our priorities?

I am sorry to be so blunt but I am extremely frustrated. I've been working. Peace Patriot has been working. Pepper32 has been working. PJ, Nashville_Brook, katinmn, mordarlar, Andy - countless others have been working to keep the election reform/fraud train moving.

Most of you know me. You know that I do not get angry very often and hardly ever at fellow DUers but I am disappointed that so much time and effort was wasted on something like this.

Dammit! I don't even have a fucking JOB and I'm busting my ass to get something started to fight for election reform! I could be doing so many other things but I choose to FIGHT and not whine or complain.

Dammit. Dammit. Dammit.

Change happens. We acknowledge it, accept it, work around it and continue on with the fight.

Let's get our priorities in order, okay? I just want to work. That's all.

[spooked]

1. I'm ready to help Arnheim. Do you still need

names of progressive groups? Here's a list of 25 good ones.

http://search.looksmart.com/p/browse/us1/us317916/us53358/us53362/us53407/us10201696/

:)

[Jo March]

3. Thank you, spooked

I don't know why but I feel like crying.

Thank you.

I don't often lose my temper. I really don't.

[Helga Scow Stern]

2. I hear you....

And I'll tell you, it made it harder to get my faxes done tonight because they had moved all the threads about today's activities in the Senate. It made me a little crabby, but I'm faxing away.

I am convinced that this is a multidimensional effort and it really can't fail if we all just stick together and keep working. Some good things could even come out of the changes in the forum, although the thread moving is a hindrance.

[Jo March]

5. I know - I never remember anyway where anything is

I have to check My Posts. :)

I am just overwhelmed and tired, that's all. I want to work and need help. :)

[Helga Scow Stern]

8. I didn't respond to your request for progressive groups

because I don't know any. I thought it was an excellent idea, though.

Is there a way I can help?

[Jo March]

11. Can you research and find some groups in your state?

And yes, I still need help. I have a good group but have been overwhelmed lately. All I do is answer emails, it seems. :) That's a good thing but I don't have enough data to send out.

We need fraud packets but we need information to go into those packets. Then we need to have somewhere to send the packets but no list of Progressive groups.

It's a lot. I have volunteers and will be contacting them but I need help in the meantime.

[Helga Scow Stern]

14. So you want me to do a search for progressive groups in CA?

and then what kind of info, exactly, do you need?

Someone else would be better at putting together a fraud packet, although everytime I say something like that, I end up doing it.

What should be in such a packet?

[Jo March]

20. If you could help with CA, that would be great.

See, I know nothing about what would go into a fraud packet. I am an IT person and a Project Manager - of IT projects!

I rely on the volunteers to come together and discuss what is needed.

Something like the Conyers report is what would be nice - only not so long.

:)

If you'd like to help, email me and I'll send you an invite to tomorrow night's meeting and to our group.

:)

[Helga Scow Stern]

27. IndyOp did a really nice 30 page report on Ohio for the Senators.

It seems we need something concise and to the point.

Visual media is also fantastic...the images and footage speaks for itself.

So I will PM you...

[Jo March]

32. I have IndyOp's document on the Yahoo site!

Along with some other things. It's not much but it's growing!

[Mister Ed]

4. I've been meaning to post my heartfelt thanks for your hard work...

I hope this isn't a bad time to do so.

While I'm unable to perform any of the tasks you've asked us to assist with (mainly because I'm one of those fortunate Americans who still has a job), I'm looking forward to donating what little I can to your fledgling organization.

[Jo March]

6. Thank you, Mister Ed!

I am so grateful that you have a job! That makes me happy. So many Dems seem to be getting poorer and poorer.

I don't usually lose my temper. Thanks for the offer of financial support. We will be contacting you! LOL! ;)

[FreepFryer]

7. Good to see you fighting the good fight. Priority One - Sensenbrenner/HJC.

Other priorities:

- reach out to prominent pols, offering our support/critique (even if only a posted thread).
- weeklies and blasters
- hosts, server space, and technology
- inventory of resources
- wiki worky

What do you think?

[Jo March]

9. I say - come on over and join our Yahoo group!

We are having an online chat tomorrow night at 8:30 pm EST. You can bring your ideas.

If you want to come over, email me and I'll send you an invite.

[e-mail]

[Helga Scow Stern]

12. Freep, do you think it is worth

writing the admins and asking if they could maybe be a little less aggressive in moving threads that have a lot of activity in this forum? Because so much of what we are doing in fighting fraud and promoting election reform is bridging to these pols....watching them, keeping up a rich, multifaceted running commentary on every aspect of what is going on, because, by god, we will use it?

You say things so clearly, would you write them?

[FreepFryer]

16. They won't be moving 'em any more. And I think we've got freedom to...

discuss alternate, tangentially-related topics in the forum. We all know and appreciate that Skinner, and the other admins are doing their best, and that the moderators are trying to exercise good judgment - they've got a really hard job, given the always-diverse nature of this community.

It can create noise, confusion, difficulty in the way the 'white-male-repubs' don't face - but it's also a great strength when the tide and education is there.

Did I speak to your point? Is there some 'nugget' or idea you would like to talk about? :)

(by the way, good ta see ya, Ojai!)

[Helga Scow Stern]

29. Exactly. You always put things in the least offensive way...

which is a very important skill to have.

And I am glad we will still have our rich, complex craziness of possibilities here, because it's out of that that the magic comes...

as long as those of us who feel like it at the time stay focused!

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. Who cares how many posts a thread got?

This isn't a contest. The point was to narrow the chatter, wasn't it? Three threads out of dozens of others apparently focused on election reform can hardly be considered the reason no one is responding to others. Has it occurred to you that some of us can multi-task and post to more than one thread at a time?

Arnheim, I'm not trying to lash out at you, but I do think some perspective is in order. Otherwise it's the "get over it" refrain all over again.

As for VOTE, I volunteered some time ago, but have not heard from you about whether you could use my editing services. I understand that you've got a lot of responses to sort through, so I'm not suggesting you're ignoring me, just pointing out that people ARE interested in taking action, and we HAVE been taking action. We are simultaneously interested in voicing our opinions in what until yesterday was labeled a discussion forum. I don't see why some people think that is so terribly counterproductive.

If anything, I think the feeling that the most important issue (FRAUD) is being lost in the shuffle may account for some of the lack of perceived action. I, for one, am not interested in trying to pursue election reform in a vacuum, pretending that the elephant is not in the room.

That being said, I think we are on the same side, so please don't take this as a slam at you for voicing your frustration.

[Jo March]

15. I mentioned how many posts my thread got

because I was trying to make a point.

I have emailed everyone, including you, who volunteered and invited them to join our VOTE group over on Yahoo. We are conducting a chat over there tomorrow night to discuss funding and our next steps.

If you did not get the email, let me know and I will gladly send you another invitation.

We aren't ignoring the elephant. If you register for the group, you will see a nice big folder for Election Fraud Resources where I have started adding documents. One of VOTE's main purposes was to develop fraud packets that are customized by state and then further customized by audience - voter, elected official, media.

We just have no data except what I can get or what a few others have found. No data = no need for editing.

I am frustrated. I see all of these posts bemoaning the fact that nobody is doing anything and we are trying to do something.

[skids]

31. multitasking... as an aside...

Have you ever tried on DU? The software won't let you keep two open post windows... pretty annoying for us multitaskers.

[Der Blaue Engel]

44. I do it all the time. What browser are you using?

Or do you mean two replies-in-progress? That might not work. But I have several windows open right now following different threads.

:shrug:

[skids]

45. two replies in progress n/t

[crispini]

13. Honestly, arnheim, I am also extremely frustrated.

I don't post here as much as I used to because I feel this forum has completely lost focus. Every general topic in the world is dragged in here and justified with the argument that "we all know each other now."

I am getting involved with an on-the ground technology and lobbying organization and I would like to have what USED TO BE one-stop shopping for information and action about technology, legislation, and current events around this isssue.

I am frustrated; it seems like all people want to do is whine and post and gossip -- not work.

I would like to suggest an alternate forum or group related to real Election Reform WORK.

And no, I don't give a rat's ass whether or not FRAUD is in the title. Whether or not fraud occurred, there is a problem, and it needs to be FIXED.

[FreepFryer]

17. group maybe, no alternate forum. Don't dilute, improve the dialogue.

You've got a great instinct there, let's focus the discussion here, by example.

[crispini]

19. Here's the example I tried to post earlier today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=303679&mesg_id=303679

0 responses.

[Jo March]

23. LOL. Looks like some of mine. :)

And see, we need to win these small battles too. We need to go state by state and city by city.

Email me.

[FreepFryer]

24. Kick it, and if you know any Texanos, point 'em over. I'll mull over...

the idea - it's a bit tough to understand the implications, just reading that one post.

[crispini]

28. yeah, the original post is actually in the Texas forum

and I got some response there.

What I'm really looking for is guidance from ANYONE who has gone to a "lobby day" with their reps -- how did it work, what did they do / take -- and how might we focus it specifically on Election Fraud, especially as related to TX (ES&S, some Diebold, Hart Intercivic)

[Jo March]

18. You are welcome to come over to our Yahoo group

and check us out. :)

We just want to work. Again, if not for fraud, then there would be no need for reform, would there?

Email me if you want an invite. [e-mail].

[crispini]

21. LOL. I just PMed you.

And yes, there would be a need for reform, even if no fraud. Nobody should have to stand in line 10 hours to vote, fraud or incompetence. :)

[Beth in VT]

35. Arnheim, I can't figure out how to get back into the Yahoo group -

can you point me in the right direction? Sorry to be so spastic.

[Jo March]

37. Go here

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VOTE_Group

and log in with your Yahoo account. If you don't have a Yahoo account, you won't be able to log in but Yahoo will let you create an account fairly easily.

[Beth in VT]

42. Perfect. Thanks!

[Helga Scow Stern]

34. I wondered where you had gone.

I just ignore the riff raff and find the nuggets. They are still here. I hope that you will share yourself with us more. You were some of what was/is best about this forum (aside from that floaty hearts business LOL).

[crispini]

38. Aww thanks!

I guess I've just been busy and I also lost patience with how unfocussed it has been. it seems like it used to be a very powerful, concentrated education -- I knocked their socks off with my knowledge of Tom Feeney and Clint Curtis at the tech meeting on Monday, heh heh heh.

Maybe I'll just concentrate on the SUMMARY threads, they are ALWAYS good.

And a girl's got to have her :loveya: to keep her spirits up... :evilgrin:

[Amaryllis]

85. I am totally with you on that. This forum is so big it's really hard to

navigate and track stuff. That is what Meganmonkey originally asked Skinner for is an election reform action group. This forum is still the best place for info, but I'd sure like more focus. It's not just "we all know each other now", it's that plus the that you can justify nearly anything as being election related if you stretch it. You have to draw the line somewhere. Bush is going to be continuing to do ourrageous things and if they all go in here for action, well, it limits effectiveness because the forum gets so damn huge that important threads get buried in a day or two.

[bear425]

22. Hey Arnheim, I recognize how much you are doing and

how frustrating it is to see important threads sink. Just want to let you know that some of us who don't post that much are doing stuff, too.

Please PM me anytime. I am doing my own letter writing, flyer posting thing, but would be interested in doing some more organized work.

Thank you!

[Jo March]

25. bear425

:yourock: for your work that you are already doing!

I'd love to have you helping our team. :) Thanks for the offer.

[skids]

26. EXACTLY how I felt...

...during the KO/BH flame fests. Right down to the whole "I should rather be searching for a job right now" part.

Having found more ways to actualize, though, let me assure you that the reason there is more noise than signal here is simply because those people who are applying themselves fully usually lose at least an hour per day to detail work on the things that they are doing.

So, it's just that the people that aren't doing serious work that have the most time to generate most of the content here. Not to say that there aren't some folks who post here, prolifically, in a manner that constitutes applying themselves.

If it's any consolation, at least they keep the forum moving at a pace (and in most cases, with mission-critical humor) that makes it attractive to those that just want to screw off on a forum. If it weren't for them, there would be no "primordial soup" from which more serious activists might evolve. Consider them the bait for unwitting recruits -- an entourage, if you will, for the Faye's and dzika's and TIA's and the stealthier, less noticed, among the group.

Plus, how many times have they made you laugh today? That's worth something you know :-)

[crispini]

30. OK, but the KO / BH thing had the merit of being FUN.

And I grant you all of your points.

What I wouldn't give for another big catfight right about now, though. I am just beginning to realize all of the WORK that needs to be done.

Oh, and I just promised to call 200 precinct chairs before Sunday. Somebody shoot me. :)

[Pooka Fey]

48. I miss the KOEB threads. Because they make me LAUGH.

I love the sense of humor in here - just my .02 since we have just gotten a big scolding for caring about our forum name. Maybe I wouldn't be seeing so many deleted messages if we could remember to keep cracking those jokes - it makes work a pleasure instead of a drudgery.

Crispini - I LOVED - just LOVED the floaty hearts - :-) :-) :-) Please don't stop our KOEB threads. No...never....floaty hearts....fun....Keith..........:-)

[Jo March]

33. Good night, guys

I am going to go on to bed.

Thank you for letting me vent and feel sorry for myself. I needed to get that off of my chest. :) I think that I'll sleep better for having vented.

I will now go and consult with my lifestyle consultant (my cat) who will tell me that I just need more naps.

I really love you guys. :) We just need to get rid of the infighting and trival stuff so we can kick some ass.

Now go to sleep! All of you!!

[Helga Scow Stern]

36. It's too early to go to sleep on the west coast.

But I'm glad some of rest while others carry the flame of democracy...

(that's the kind of drama I like!)

[darkworkz]

39. Not going to bed yet? Still gotta work?

Start here then.

Today the Republicans had yet another chance to stand and place their positions before the public. And the points they raised fell well short of the mark of reasoned, rational debate.

The talking points "issued" to those Republicans:

Follow the leader
Don't ask questions
Might makes right
Move on
Because I said so

You may notice, the more they are exposed to speaking and publicly supporting their positions the more overt and troubling their "language" becomes.

The simple focus now is reasserting the "consent of the governed" in national politics. How is this done?

As some may have heard in today's debate on the Senate floor, Senators stated that they're getting their news and information from the MSM. And they know the information is "lacking" at best. There is another group of U.S. Senators that get daily briefings from the head "news makers," address: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Which of the 2 groups are the most informed?

The "Governed" appears now to also hold the job of information supplier for our elected officials (talking points??). John Conyers and Barbara Boxer have opened a flood gate that has illustrated for their colleagues that the people are willing and able to approach and support those that step on the line and do their jobs.

Don't forget - Washington needs a permanent paper blizzard!

[skids]

40. This reminded me of a more generic idea...

...not specifically related to our group here.

Has anyone thought to put together an online service by which people can volunteer to be experts for their local reps? I'm not talking about campaign related stuff, but to help them do their jobs, wouldn't it be nice if there was a place to sign up and say "if you need details of a bill about X researched or commented upon, I'm here for you" to your rep, rather than only writing home when you need money?

[Jo March]

58. That's one of the goals for VOTE

Our big database app will keep up with bills that are coming up, who sponsors them, when they'll come up for a vote. That way we can offer help to groups who are working for reform.

VOTE is all about knowledgeable resources and accessible data - all in one centralized location.

We need to be able to mobilize local troops and help them get reform bills passed.

[darkworkz]

64. this database info

will also be a huge help to those letter writers. You want representative A to vote in B direction? How can you know which way is which if you don't know the bill or committee?

With VOTE's help, now we all can!

Thanks arnheim!!

[Jo March]

70. Exactly! You see my vision! nt

[Helga Scow Stern]

47. I agree. I've been blizzarding.

I'm gonna write that despicable Cornyn now for his disparaging of Boxer. Creep!

Those bastards won't be so emboldened as they know they are being closely scrutinized. Maybe...but almost anyone who watches sees how phony they look next to these courageous real patriots that we are waking up.

[Left coast liberal]

41. I agree! What is the big deal about a name change!

I sure found my way back with no problem. God, this hissy fit over minutia just annoys the crap out of me.

[suffragette]

43. signed up for VOTE

The meeting time will be tricky for me since it's around the time I leave work, but I'll try to join you for at least part of it.
Get a good rest tonight. You certainly deserve the break.

[emlev]

46. I'm disturbed to hear you didn't get the help you needed

Sometimes I just assume that there are going to be plenty of people helping with something, so I don't offer because I'm already doing more than I can really sustain. I'm not sure what else to say about this right now. It seems like it would be good to have some way of focusing better. It looks to me like the mods are trying to do that with the name change, but now that it's changed back perhaps we need another strategy.

Thank you for your hard work! I hope you get a job when you want/need one.

[NationalEnquirer]

49. You are right man..

Alot of pettiness around these parts lately, maybe we are sore losers afterall.
Too much infighting, we HAVE TO stay together and FOCUS on what we CAN DO.
We can't dwell too much on what we CANNOT do.
Choose the battles carefully..

[FogerRox]

50. Arn --you are wrong--lets talk about the Swift boat vets for about 6 weeks

before we move to anything important--- >WINK<

This meesage was approved by me--ROj

[Jo March]

59. No, Roj, you are wrong - we need to talk about Brad & Jen

and their possible links to terrorism. LOL!

[FogerRox]

65. Jen a t errorist?? NAHHHHHHH say it aint so

[Jo March]

71. Weapon of Mass Distraction!

LOL! I crack myself up!!

[Hugin]

51. A kick as thanks. :) n/t

[greenmutha]

52. I'm still working arnheim!

I take a break now & then to peek at DU to see what's going on, but I am still compiling my brains out on the data I promised you!

:hug:

[Jo March]

60. greenmutha

:yourock:

'nuff said!

[Horse with no Name]

53. We have several missions and people are going to do what their passion is

1. Election Fraud
2. Discussing potential candidates for the next elections
3. Ferreting out and discrediting the ones in office that we can
4. Illuminating the truth
5. Do what we can to get the troops out of this.

Personally my passion is the troops. I pale in comparison to TIA and Raul and some of the others that can compile the statistics. I don't live in an area where I can do much good as far as election fraud.
I've thrown out a name or two for potential candidates. I think if you just keep in mind we are all on the same team--but some of us are outfielders or pinch hitters to the others pitchers and catchers. We are all necessary, some are just more visible than others.

You are doing a great job--we just have to all remember that this is a well oiled machine and people have to do what they are good at and what they are passionate about. All of these points have to be dealt with and just because you aren't getting the response on some of the threads doesn't mean that people arent reading them and doing what they can but certainly applauding the efforts being made.

Thank you.

[crispini]

54. Right, but do all of these non-election related issues have to show up

in THIS forum? Honestly, I can go to GD or GD Politics if I want to read about Iraq, Condi, the Senate, etc. It irks me that this forum has lost its formerly clear focus and we are now subjected to a bazillion off-topic posts and crap. I would prefer that we have a more focussed discussion on the topic of THIS forum.

[New Earth]

55. some people are used to this forum

and don't feel comfortable in the GD's forums. i'm one of them :shrug:

i think things will pick up again and we'll be more focused.

[crispini]

56. Well, some people (me) are very used to the Gardening Group

but that doesn't mean that I post about my computer issues in it.... :shrug:

I just feel like this forum has become very, very diluted and much less useful, post 1/20. I am an election activist and when I come here it's for information and ammunition, not Iraq and Condi.

[Horse with no Name]

62. I totally agree with your points however

I think the majority of serious activists haunt this particular forum whereas the other forums tend to have only readers and posters.
That is my take on the situation--but I understand what you are saying and it makes alot of sense.
I tend to think of the other issues as branches of the main

IF we did not have a corrupt election process--->Gore would be President---->we wouldn't be in Iraq---->we wouldn't be fighting the nomination of Rice

Everything branches off the main stem and I think that is how people view it.

[Peace Patriot]

57. Thank you, arnheim, for all your support, and read my posts at..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x305266

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=304626&mesg_id=304626

on priorities.

It wasn't so much the name change--I didn't care about that, and said almost nothing about it--as it was the abrupt change of focus here, at the Election Forum, excluding all issues except strictly Elections, such that the moderator moved our post on the Condi Rice debate right in the middle of the debate yesterday, disrupting everybody.

We had the very specific purpose of supporting Boxer, the hero of Jan. 6--she asked for support--and helping her build a progressive coalition of fighting Democrats in the Congress. Boxer is very important to Election Reform, and our letter campaign on Rice started right here, at the Election Forum (and our sample letter on Rice included the issue of election fraud).

Arnheim, I'm all for what you're doing. Your appeal came right in the middle of the Rice thing, and I couldn't respond at that time. But I will now.

I think reform has to be achieved state by state. I don't think the BushCons in Congress are going to give us back our right to vote, and the Dems don't have the votes or power to get it done. They CAN be helpful, though--on education and investigation--which is why we must give support on other important issues, especially when it's asked for. Look what we accomplished today! 13 votes against Rice in a campaign led by Boxer (on a vote that is usually just a rubber stamp by the Senate). I expected two or three votes.

Anyway, I think your idea of consolidating information, and creating an activist election reform site is great. And after I take a little break here, from this intense Condi business, I will check out your list of needs and see how I can plug in.

Thank you again! You've been very helpful in the Letter of the Week project!

[Jo March]

61. PP, the Rice thing is important too

and I want to make sure that things like that get worked on.

In fact, I spent quite a bit of time this past week working against her confirmation. I believe 100% in election reform but I also know that Rice is like the captain of the freaking Titanic. I too was glad to see 13 'No' votes. We did a hell of a job!

I clearly see the same need to ramp up next week to fight Mr. Torture Memo but if we have a good list of other Progressive groups started, then we can enlist them in our fight. It will let us test our system of notification to see what we can improve.

I'm all for sticking with the one "what brung you to the dance" but we have to get our priorities straight.

PP, you have done a hell of a job with the Rice confirmation opposition. I'm glad that we are on the same side!!

[darkworkz]

67. Just an observation

I'd like to point out what Horse with no Name said in message #62

"That is my take on the situation--but I understand what you are saying and it makes alot of sense.
I tend to think of the other issues as branches of the main

IF we did not have a corrupt election process--->Gore would be President---->we wouldn't be in Iraq---->we wouldn't be fighting the nomination of Rice

Everything branches off the main stem and I think that is how people view it."

HwnN is exactly right. The election reform issues are critical, but it is the original root of this problem that can't be forgotten. (I'll tie this together in a moment)

This is about focus. Observe how these separate items converge onto one focal point: The information consolidated by VOTE ties directly into the activist organizations need for immediate / timely data. Which then ties into the all important grassroots that is / will drive this entire country back on the right track. (sure I left a few people out of the equation, but you get the picture)

The picture can be looked at like this - VOTE, with the activist organizations present the data to the grassroots. The Letter of the Week is the tool or fulcrum used by the grassroots, that shifts the weight (gov. system) in the "proper" direction. QUICKLY!

Everything is a matter of perspective. Most involved right now might think they're working on separate parts of an equation when in fact we're all working on the exact same thing with the same answer at the end.

Hope that made sense. :shrug:

Good times!

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jo March]

74. This is great but I need the contact information

I can find the links. It's shifting through the links and getting the data that is overwhelming me.

If I could get the contact info upfront, then I can just import it into the database.

Thanks for the links though. :) I do appreciate it.

[Wilms]

76. I realized after I posted. Sorry.

Do you have your current list published?

I could go through those and see which organizations I've found that aren't on your list.

[Jo March]

77. Wilms, I can send you the tiny little list that I have :)

It's quite sad, really. :)

[Wilms]

80. Can you post it? n/t

[Jo March]

81. I'll post it in this thread tonight. nt

[Wilms]

83. Perhaps put it on a brand-spanking-new thread.

Emphasize what you want.

Reference this thread, etc.

[Jo March]

84. Even better idea! :) nt

[EFerrari]

66. Me, too, Arnie. n/t

[keepthemhonest]

68. Hey Arnheim

sorry you were feeling bad about how things were going here. I sure it must be fustrating for you to be doing all that work and then only get a few responses. Look how many this one got, though. Sometimes you have to be the sqeeky wheel to get the grease.

See you at the meeting tonight.

[Jo March]

73. kth, I hate to be the squeaky wheel!

Dang it. x(

Well, it did kind of get some response, lol. ;)

[tommcintyre]

69. I know how you feel arnheim.. thanks for having the courage to post this

I often felt very frustrated in December when I was putting in 16-18 hours a day on the blasters, fraud resources, master activist threads, etc. and it took a "kick" team just to keep the blaster from sinking into the "abyss" way to quickly. I was very frustrated to see IMO threads regularly garnering 100 or more responses, when a "call to action" thread often would receive just 16 or 20 responses at best. That's why I started the master action threads. I would often dig back through five pages of posts, to recover legitimate calls-to-action that even had NO RESPONSES. Expressing one's opinions is great, but for us to be successful, there must be a balance of action also.

I ignored both the original threads discussing splitting/renaming the group, hoping it would just "go away". I just didn't want to deal with one more relatively unimportant distraction right now, when we are "feeling out" our post-Jan 20 approach. (I DO realize the name must change eventually. Do you see a 2000 or 2002 Election... forum here anymore? Those elections were stolen too.)

When it happened, I tried to make the best of it: I posted: "Most importantly, is what we DO in here." "...hopefully more people here will get the idea that this forum is about ACTION (not just writing IMOs)."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=302654#302859

While I'm at it (ranting), I would like to mention one more distracting (and potentially destructive) issue. I just hope people can focus on the important issue ELECTION FRAUD/REFORM, and set their relatively minor "pro/anti" differences aside. What we are doing is so important here, we can't afford to lose/alienate anyone who shares this common cause. I think, to be successful, we will have to expand our horizons even further. We will have to include/"tolerate" ALL who share our common goal of meaningful election reform (including moderate republicans, rightish Independents, etc.). WE NEED ALL THE HELP WE CAN GET.

<I've made some posts recently on this issue that some may find useful/informative:>

"Recently, I was put in a position where I "broke bread" with over 100 mostly conservative people for three meals a day, for seven days (about 40 meals). <I was on a river cruise in Europe.> I purposely sat with as many different groups as I could, since I wanted to find out more "what made them tick" (politically - esp regarding election issues). I mostly listened, until someone would ask me the inevitable question: "what do you do?" I would tell them: "I run a web site that mainly deals with the many unresolved election "questions" from the 2004 Presidential election."

Their response was overwhelmingly positive. They listened attentively and asked many questions. Many seemed to be genuinely concerned that something "wasn't right" in the election results. And they seemed to be concerned about the "voting future"."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=303656&mesg_id=304967

"I suggest expanding "for real Democrats" to expand even past "progressives"... ... to include ANYONE sincerely interested in potential election "irregularities". Ideally, this will include moderate Republicans, Independents, etc. We need all the help we can get."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=303656&mesg_id=304169

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Overall, I think we have a very committed group here. What we probably need is to figure out is how to harness all this positive energy to do the necessary actions.

[Jo March]

72. Andy S. has made that same statement - must not be partisan

There are groups on the right that are fighting for election reform as well and we need to work with them.

I agree with that statement but we need to start with Progressive groups first, I think, because we have a better chance of getting support.

I will welcome anyone who wants to work with us for election reform. Just send their contact info on to me. :)

[tommcintyre]

75. "start with Progressive groups first" - Absolutely

I think we even would benefit from figuring out how to use the resources we have right here (this forum, DU, etc) primarily (while we build outside contacts, etc).

For example, I'm willing to build blasters that serve the purposes of various efforts here. Some have independently adapted my previous blasters for their own recent projects (I've noticed Peace Patriot and mod mom threads using it, and others talking about wanting to "blast" the media). I'm very glad, but I think if we work in concert, we could greatly increase both our efficiency and effectiveness.

Another example is your current contact-gathering project. We could set up a "sign-up" for the state part, where 50 individuals signed up to gather the info for their particular state (it could be announced here, in the state forums, and even in other appropriate DU forums). The individual from that state could even become a sort of "liaison" for their State groups, communicating between this forum and the state groups various useful info. (This would be meant to enhance, not replace, your planned broadcast program.) <I'm willing to sign up for Hawaii for both functions - expect contact info shortly.> I noticed crispini post 19 above (about Texas); and I have a current thread going about Hawaii. It turned into an information gathering and reporting function (both ways) all on its own.

My Hawaii thread:
From Hawaii.. An example of what you can do through State & local orgs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x304538

crispini thread:
Texas e-voting lobby day?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=303679&mesg_id=303679

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Again, this is about working both more efficiently and effectively with our available resources (organizing) - not necessarily working harder.

[Jo March]

78. Tom, I totally agree

I have wanted to do this but need to get it coordinated. :)

I'll PM you.

[Andy_Stephenson]

79. In progressives...we have support.

believe me we have support.

This one issue has the potential for bringing out a profound change in all Americans.

[Jo March]

82. I hope that groups on the right support us too

Fraud can cut both ways.

[Andy_Stephenson]

86. You are absolutely right.

it can and does.

[indigobusiness]

87. Legerdemain

The legerdemain of mass-distraction is just how the truth hides in plain sight as we are swamped in the towering babble along the information superhighway.

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legerdemain.
leg·er·de·main ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ljr-d-mn)
n.
Sleight of hand.
A show of skill or deceitful cleverness: financial (political) legerdemain.

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Middle English legerdemayn, from Old French leger de main : leger, light (from Vulgar Latin *levirius, from Latin levis. See legwh- in Indo-European Roots) + de, of (from Latin d. See de-) + main, hand; see mortmain.

<[br />Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
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