Let's compare - Dem/Repub, 'voter fraud'/'election fraud' - it IS Rovian!!

[New Earth]

Sorry to make a separate thread, but read this and think about it. There have been jokes that 'voter fraud' is the "Rovian" term for election fraud, so that the heat is taken off of the election official/vote machine companies and instead placed on the voters. Well, I don't think it's a joke, I think it's the truth. I am beginning to see a pattern here.

Now think of the few cases flying around where Republicans are claiming 'voter fraud' on the Dem side. They are blaming Dems for things like slashing tires, double voting, phony/questionable registrations, voting in two locations, etc., etc. Now what is that? VOTER FRAUD.

Now think of those who are investigating fraud on the Republican side (or all machine type fraud in general): intentional central tabulation fraud, touchscreen fraud, machines programmed to register a vote for a certain candidate regardless of the voter's intent, recount fraud, etc. etc. In THESE cases, who are responsible? ELECTION OFFICIALS AND VOTE MACHINE MANUFACTURERS/DISTRIBUTORS. This is full-scale, blown out ELECTION fraud. Not just 'vote' or 'voter' fraud.

Do you see now? Dems are being blamed for 'voter fraud'.

People are still using the term 'voter fraud' all around the net.

To those who aren't well educated on the events in the last few months, the first thing they will think of is the 'voter fraud' instead of the entire ELECTION FRAUD which reflects more fault by the Republicans who own and are endorsed by the voting machine companies, all which DISENFRANCHISE the voters.


Am I making more sense now?

Please read this thread and help me spread the word http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x306090

[Wilms]

1. Makes sense to me.

"Voter Fraud" is a sub-set of "Election Fraud".

And there are accussations of Dem Voter Fraud. Even unsubstantiated, that in itself is a road to bi-partisan agreement (IMHO).

It's my trip of late.

[New Earth]

2. kick

make sure to read this too, it goes along with the other thread.

[EC]

3. Here in WI, they are freaking out about Milw. and calling it

voter fraud because last year the Republicans were trying to get presentation of picture ID at time of voting and were defeated, so they are doing this to bring it up again...now I don't know why they want the picture ID's so badly, my guess is it's something other than voting fraud, more like a national ID proceder...

[Wilms]

5. A discussion about ID in AZ is here. n/t

[dragonlady]

24. why they want photo IDs

Well-off people (more likely Republicans) have drivers licenses as a matter of course, so photo ID is no big deal. Poor people and minorities (more likely Democrats) have a harder time getting photo IDs for various reasons (move frequently, can't get a ride to the DMV, can't afford the fee, suspicious of the government, etc.).

They're making a big deal of it now in preparation for passing the bill again and daring Gov. Doyle to veto it so he'll look bad in the next election. They think ahead. Wouldn't it be interesting if some of that so-called fraud (voting from supposedly nonexistent addresses) could be brought home to them instead of the Democrats who they think people will automatically suspect?

[EC]

25. I really think Doyle did a good job of framing this in this context

but I can't help but think there is something more nefarious in this that we are missing, they are being really pushy with this...

[New Earth]

4. pooopy

[New Earth]

6. must read this one too! goes along with the other one

[NationalEnquirer]

7. Pot calling the kettle, yadda yadda..

Typical of what they do, turn everything around.
We ought, however, use this in order to push for election reform, and get some republicans on the bandwagon with us.

[electropop]

8. Yup, perfect sense

I never referred to Rove in this context in anything but a deadly serious way, so I certainly agree. We really do need to act as a Karl Rove for the left (only without the illegal/immoral parts - hmmm, leaves a pretty small piece, doesn't it). You seem to have a knack for this kind of 2-word debate framing, and I find it interesting too. Is there a forum for developing these terms, so we can have a full and evolving vocabulary to take the offensive away from KKKarl?

[New Earth]

9. no forum that i know of.

might be a good idea to think of starting one. good idea.

[understandinglife]

10. Suggest you keep it here; several of us more than willing to contribute.

TBO;24/7

[New Earth]

11. i feel like some people dont care

but i'll do my best then to keep it in here.

[understandinglife]

13. I think most everyone here cares and we are a better 'community'...

...today than we were a week ago because we've all learned from each other the value of discussing various issues that impact and motivate our election fraud-busting, election reform planning and advocacy.

Peace.

BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION;24/7

[electropop]

12. Not sure people will notice here.

I hate to stray off topic, and framing ideas cut across many issues. I'll start a thread in "Democratic Party" and see if anybody bites. I'll call it "Frame the debate: snappy slogans"

Stop by!

On edit: I see keeping it here has support so here are a couple of mine:

"Don't Corporatize Social Security"
"Tax cuts: welfare for the wealthy"
"burden shifting "
"reverse Robin Hood"

Dang, not a 2-word one in the bunch. Help me out here.

[New Earth]

14. what are the last two about?

burden shifting, reverse Robin Hood? lol what do they refer to>

[electropop]

15. Yeah, like most slogans, context is needed

but the slogan has to be repeated often, and sums it up. The context for those 2 is the way the tax cuts have shifted the tax burden from rich to poor, or shifted wealth from poor to rich.

[minorjive]

16. yes, you should check out

this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x305320

There's even more to your theory than you're saying.

Look especially at the article by Jeffrey Toobin, called "Poll Position," linked in my references.

[New Earth]

17. there isn't a link

just text there

[minorjive]

18. toobin link

http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/040920fa_fact

it was there when I looked again, just now, under *References*, at the end of the original post. All of the stuff in that post about the Department of Justice is relevant to what you're saying.

In the last 4 years the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division has changed from being a division that protects voting rights to a division that stops "voter fraud." From the sound of it, we're going to see Feds doing voter challenges at the polls, along with the Repugs.

Also very worth reading is the long (approx 100 pgs) pdf file, REPUBLICAN BALLOT SECURITY PROGRAMS: VOTE PROTECTION OR MINORITY VOTE SUPPRESSION OR BOTH?
http://www.votelaw.com/blog/blogdocs/GOP_Ballot_Security_Programs.pdf

[New Earth]

19. what fucking bullshit

this entire Administration makes me so sick i can't even explain it. every damn one of them. they are a fucking joke.

[suffragette]

20. you're absolutely correct, Faye

It's not a joke and there is a pattern emerging.

We need to be aware of how these terms are being used in discussing both Election Fraud and Reform.

In the area of fraud, voter fraud blames the people (voters) and election fraud blames the process/system and those who manage it.

I brought the issue up in terms of Election Reform in my post on "Election Reform - framing the context" and even cited your efforts there. In that thread, Amaryllis mad a great point, saying that "I'm in OR and Senator Wyden has said the same thing; that when Dems talk election reform, they are talking inclusion. When repubs talk election reform, they are talking exclusion."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=288149

We need to be aware of these patterns and to be sure to address the issues correctly.
Thanks again, Faye, for your effort in this.

[minorjive]

21. just to add to what you're saying

It's not a new pattern just emerging. It's how it's been for decades. The stuff we saw in 04 and 00 was just a ramping up of stuff that was developed in response to the successes of the Civil Rights Movement. The long report about "ballot security" programs that I linked above tells the story pretty well.

Another Republican code word for stopping "voter fraud" is "voter integrity." The Dems tend to emphasize voter access and the Repugs emphasize voter "integrity." For this reason it's been driving me crazy that a number of recent groups use integrity in their names. The worst case is the Voter Integrity Project (usvip.org). Nothing wrong with them as an organization, but they share their name with a long standing right wing group that is a professional voter suppression organization. There's some stuff about them in the New Yorker article. One of the former VIP (the right wing group) board members is now the head of the Voting Section in the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ. He's the one I quote in my post about the Gonzales nomination. Very scary stuff...

[minorjive]

22. new yorker article=toobin article (above) n/t

[Hugin]

23. Exactly Faye!

I call it the Mary Poppins effect.

It's a smoke screen to cover for the vote counting fraud
happening.

I mean if you and 500,000 of your friends get together
and double vote someone is going to blab about it... right?

But, with centralized vote counting it only takes one person.

[New Earth]

26. wow it's really all happening now.

everything the Repubs are coming up with is 'voter' fraud, blaming the fraud on the voters. Pathetic. They are trying to distract from the fraud coming from the ELECTION OFFICIALS AND VOTING MACHINE COMPANIES.

Do they really think we are stupid? They really think we are. Or they think the rest of the country is. Well then let's educate them, please keep spreading the word. Spread ELECTION FRAUD.

spread the video too.