Need cost for the Washington recount

[Kelvin Mace]

Does anyone have a good source for the actual cost of the hand recount in Washington? I have an election director claiming it would cost $750,000 to count the 200,000 ballots in his one county. I think this is BS and he cites no source for his claim.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. According to my source here in King County

there is a charge of .25 per ballot to recount.

Andy

[pscot]

2. I thought the Democrats had to put up

$700,000 the get the process started. I think they were reimbursed when the recount proved their gal won.

[merwin]

5. Yep, after the election was turned, she gets the money back. Whether

she actually takes the money back is yet to be known.

[berniew1]

3. It wouldn't cost much. The main cost is time of staff & public already pa

pays their cost. Most of the cost is not legitimate and simply put there to deter recounts. All of the equipment and ballots and tabulations were paid for by the public, and are public information.
Recounts and checks on accuracy and reliablility are just a cost of running a fair election. There is very little overtime required in a recount, and even if it were the actual cost wouldn't be very much for the employees time at salary cost.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. I agree

but I have an eleection director trying to scare the General Assembly with lies about the cost, this is why I was trying to find a specific source that said Washington state paid x dollars to hand count y votes.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Chi]

6. You could just see how long....

You could just see how long it takes to count 100 and divide it up by man hours.
Just a thought.

[claudiajean]

10. Well, no. There are administrative costs in addition to...

...the pure cost of the counting.

Ballots must be organized and prepared so that proper controls can be kept on the numbers of ballots going out to count teams and coming back. Voter intent ballots must be analysed and canvassed. Provisional ballot determinations must be reviewed and revisited.

There is also a massive amount of paperwork involved in a recount.

Plus overhead - facility time that would not be used, lights, heat and air, equipment time that is not generally free (most leases for seasonal equipment include adjustments for usage), security, payroll taxes, possible locataions that have to be leased if it is a large enough recount, etc.etc.etc.

Recounts are expensive, as are hand counts.

They may be necessary in some cases, but they are expensive Let's not fool ourselves.

[claudiajean]

9. I'm sorry, but that is not my experience. Recounts are costly.

That does not mean that there is not a need for them at times, nor should cost be a deterrent to recounting races that are close or have procedural anomalies or other reasons that a recount is appropriate and even necessary.

I am a forceful advocate for the need for mandatory recounts to be codified into law in all states, and for the recount triggers to be expanded for greater auditing and transparency, but we are fooling ourselves if we think that recounts don't cost money. A lot of it.

Staff time (payroll) is the single greatest expense in any business, including government, and recount require substantial staff time, including many additional employees hired from the community to assist.

I feel the more appropriate and compelling argument is that recounts to ensure that the final outcome of any election is the true and correct one are worth the cost. But we must acknowledge that the cost is great and ensure that our local election offices are resourced appropriately. Short-changing the election office budget, which happens all across America, is short-changing ourselves in the end.

[Chi]

7. a cashier's check for $730,000 to order a recount...

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-12032004-410955.html

"State Democratic Chairman Paul Berendt said the party gave the secretary of state's office a cashier's check for $730,000 to order a recount of all 2.9 million votes cast for governor on Nov. 2 - not just votes in selected counties. The money came in part from a flood of online contributions.

"We're going to count every vote in every county, whether it's a Rossi county or a Gregoire county," Berendt said.

The hand count is expected to cost the party more than $1 million, including legal costs."


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http://www.secstate.wa.gov/office/osos_news.aspx?i=SPlmpeBt1xLxpksVqw%2Ft9w%3D%3D

" Q: What is a requested recount and how does it work?

Any candidate or political party officer can request a recount in any race.

The request may only be made after the Secretary of State certifies the final returns on December 2, 2004 .

To finance the recount, the requesting party must make a deposit with the state in the amount of 15 cents per vote for a machine recount and 25 cents per vote for a manual recount.

If 2.8 million people vote in the general election, the cost of the deposit with the state would be $700,000 for a manual recount. The cost of the deposit for a machine recount would be $420,000.

If the costs of the recount exceed the amount on deposit, the requesting party is responsible for those costs. By the same token, if the cost is less than the deposit, a refund is made of the difference.

If the recount, however, changes the result of the election, the requesting party is entitled to a refund of the deposit and is not responsible for any recount costs.

[claudiajean]

8. I can give you nearly exact numbers. But need some clarification...

The cost for a hand count or recount varies with how many races are being counted. The more races hand counted per ballot, the higher the cost.

The 25 cents per ballot my friend Andy was speaking of is just the deposit required under the law to commence a hand recount in the state of Washington. The deposit actually accounts for about one half to one third of the total cost.

The poster who stated that the Washington state Democrats will get their money back, as the hand recount changed the outcome, is correct, although the WSDCC has not physically received a refund yet as the election outcome is still the subject of litigation.

Nevertheless, there still was a cost for the recount, it is just that the people of the state of Washington, on a county by county basis, will be the ones saddled with the cost, which is looking like it will be in the area of $1.7 million for the recount of just one race.

A 200,000 ballot hand recount, if appropriate recount procedures are implemented, should be able to be done for $100,000 - $130,000, IF there is ONLY one race to be counted. For each additional reace, add about 15 cents per ballot to be counted, or another $30,000.

So if you are proposing to count, say three races on 200,000 ballots, the figure of $190,000 - $220,000 for the full cost of the hand count or recount is about correct.

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. Thanks CJ if anyone knows this you would...

I was under the serious impression it was .25 per ballot. Glad you cleared that up for me and us. How ya doin BTW? I will be in LA Tue-Thur...I will call you when I get back and we can talk more about that little project we were gonna work on.

Andy

[claudiajean]

12. Well the deposit amount was all they were providing,

when your folks were looking into it, thanks to the usual lack of transparency around here...

I would have thought the same thing, if I'd been you. :)

Look forward to connecting with ya!