Oh-Oh! "Voter" Fraud Alert!

[demodonkey]

There was a demonstration vote on AccuPoll DREs in Pittsburgh PA at the Allegheny County Democratic Endorsement Meeting today (yes DU activists WERE there, but I'm too tired to write it up now, will have to do it tomorrow).

OK -- Where's Faye? Local CBS Affiliate KDKA Channel 2 covered it tonight at 11PM... coverage was decent but the anchor Don Cannon said the machines could prevent "Voter Fraud" in a teaser for the news segment covering it. Well, MAYbe... but I don't think the voters are likely to be the culprit, lol!

Also at least 7-10 people from our PA Voting Rights / Reform Group were outside working the crowd today to teach the importance of a VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT (which the AccuPoll machine does produce, if we can get PA legislation to call it a legal ballot). I know I personally said "Voter-Verified Paper Ballot" to at least 350 people today myself.

Sadly after all the times we said Voter-Verified Paper Ballot OUTSIDE the event, the KDKA Political Commentator Jon Delano (in the news segment filmed inside) just now mentioned several times about the machines having a "PAPER TRAIL". Oy! We have our work cut out for us! ;-)

(Sorry Andy, but fear not, we won't let this stand – PA will have Voter-Verified Paper Ballots, or BUST!!)



KDKA Main Switchboard:412/575-2200
News Desk: 412/575-2245
http://kdka.com/feedback/

[garybeck]

1. what's your group?

our PA Voting Rights / Reform Group

?

the voters unite page doesn't list anything for PA

http://www.votersunite.org/info/groups.asp

[demodonkey]

3. Am working on forming group at this time.. PM or e-mail for details please

Am too tired to write it all up now Gary, but some of the people were people you referred to me... as soon as all is official I will sign it up w/ above link.

I did sign up to deliver Mythbreakers to the PA Counties and have already started... one is already done for sure, and receptive. Have not yet received the e-mail back as to how to report the delivery, though.

Sorry I am so tired and sleepy... and oh boy, at this hour I now have to run to the store and get a few things because we are expecting a blizzard here starting early tomorrow AM -- what fun!

[garybeck]

4. cool, I just wanted to make sure you were working with them

I'm actually helping them (you) put together a website. Hopefully we'll have it launched soon.

I'm tired too.

sleep well.

[Wilms]

2. I heard "Voter Fraud" used by one of today's panelists in Santa Monica

It kinda hurt. ;(

[garybeck]

6. think of it this way

what if the fraud is being perpretrated upon the voter.

in other words, i am a voter and I voted for person X. Someone commits fraud against me by stealing my vote and changing it to person Y.

couldn't that be considered voter fraud?

like isn't there a thing called consumer fraud, in which the consumer is ripped off?

here's a hit on a quick google search on consumer fraud, run by an attorney general.


not that I would call it voter fraud, but i'm just trying to help you all sleep at night.

:shrug:

[kevsand]

7. That explanation seems very plausible,

but it strikes me as a bit of a rationalization. I think what has happened is relatively simple, if unfortunate.

The correct term is probably "vote fraud." The republican framers have capitalized on the public knowledge of the history of alleged misbehavior by urban political machines for the last century, to shift the noun from "vote" to "voter." This would also have allowed them to shift the role of the perpetrator from the establishment to the citizenry. It's a pleasant bonus for them that a lot of those historical urban political organizations were Democratic.

I personally doubt whether TV reporters and anchors (especially local ones) are ever going to be correctable on this, as their IQs and attention spans may not be up to it. It may simply be too subtle of a distinction for them to successfully grasp and adopt.

If I'm right about that, then we might have a better chance of re-framing (and retraining) the media if we use "election fraud" or "election theft." Changing the word entirely may actually be easier for them in the long run.

It's just a thought. My apologies if you've already hashed all this out previously.

[New Earth]

11. no, the correct word is NOT vote fraud

it needs to focus on the root word ELECT when referring to the broad general term.

The root word 'vote' implies it has to do with the voter, which in some cases it does, but that is an INDIVIDUAL issue that falls under ELECTION FRAUD.

(or theft, if you ask Fly By Night :hi: )

[Wilms]

8. Kevsand got it right.

Have a look here:

Republican Policy Committee

The Need for New Federal Reforms
Putting an End to Voter Fraud

http://www.spidel.net/GOPonVoterFraud.pdf


Here is the Orwellian-like summarized bill...

S. 414: Mitch McConnell (R-KY) A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002
to protect the right of Americans to vote through the prevention of voter fraud, and for other purposes.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-414


Next up...

Uniformity at polls may be elusive
Parties sharply at odds over election reform

By CRAIG GILBERT
[e-mail]
Posted: Feb. 26, 2005

"House Republican Mark Green of Green Bay plans to introduce an election reform bill that would require government-issued photo IDs from voters in every state. That change would have a nationwide impact, since fewer than five states now have strict photo ID requirements."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/feb05/305304.asp



I can hardly wait to see it :eyes:

[New Earth]

10. the concept is not saying that 'voter fraud' does not exist

when that is indeed the case, then of course you would say 'voter fraud' (if the fraud WAS specifically committed by the voter.)

But, when you are out and about, online, in person, on message boards, etc. - trying to spread the message that we need to end ALL fraud concerning elections, it is ELECTION FRAUD.

Voter fraud, vote fraud, machine fraud, tabulation fraud, corrupt election officials, insufficient number of voting machines, and voter suppression are all INDIVIDUAL ISSUES that fall under ELECTION FRAUD.

So basically, when you are trying to convey the BROAD GENERAL TERM, it is ELECTION FRAUD.

Too many people are using 'voter fraud' as the broad, general term which misleads the reader/listener, etc. to think the fraud is generally committed by the voter (which is what Rove and his friends would like us all to believe).



PS) Personally I think the use of 'consumer fraud' is bullshit too. When using the word 'fraud', it needs to be preceded by EXACTLY WHO IS COMMITTING THE FRAUD. It's a fucking play on words that is used to confuse things and it makes me furious :grr:

Sorry for all the caps, but it was easier than making it all Bold :(

[In Truth We Trust]

5. Paper ballots NOW!!!! Hand counts Now!!!!!

[demodonkey]

9. "Election Fraud" is the word. "Voter-Verified Paper Ballot" is the word.

We need to use "Election Fraud" to frame the issue. Comprehensive.
"Vote Fraud" and especially "Voter Fraud" puts it too easily on the voters.

Same with the paper issue. We want a "Voter-Verified Paper Ballot." Nothing else.
"Paper Trail" / " Paper Receipt" / "Paper Record" all allow too much wrong interpretation. "Trail" can be pretty much anything anybody wants it to be -- yikes. When you say "receipt" people think you are giving them the paper to take home with them; can lead to potential vote selling and bosses demanding employees bring receipt prove they voted a certain way on lose their job, etc. A "record" may or may not be legal to use in a count or recount, depending on state law.

Words are important, and have power. It will help the movement if we can use that power together to frame the issue our way. The Fundies and Neo-Cons do this so well; we need to also.