two Votergate movies??

[garybeck]

howdy

All along I've been aware of Votergate.TV. Just last night Emlev showed me Votergate.ORG. It appears that on the TV site they reference that others are stealing their name and using portions of their film to make other movies.

What is going on here? While the TV site is supposedly still working on their film, the ORG site appears to have finished theirs and they were selected in a 2004 film festival. So I'm assuming that the ORG version is pre-election and doesn't really contain any evidence of what happened last november.

Are we to just live with two movies called Votergate?

Is this another controversy like practically everything that has been put out in our movement where we are supposed to take sides and hate one of the groups and not promote their material?

Maybe this just slipped through my cracks and y'all already know what's up with this.

If anyone knows more about why there are two votergate movies, what the differences are, etc, please post replies here. I'm hoping it's not another attack fest.

thanks
Gary

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[Helga Scow Stern]

1. When I saw the "new" votergate movie at the Santa Monica teach-in,

I thought I heard it was the old one, being redone, and that it still wasn't finished.

It was not the same as the old one, but it did have some of the same footage, IIRC.

The old one is the standard which mainly focuses on Bev Harris, right?

The new one had footage of Andy and Bev in a pick-up truck, plus lots of good stuff interviewing election workers about the machines, etc.

Votergate.TV was the website given in connection with the new film.

[garybeck]

2. to avoid confusion

rather than calling them the OLD and NEW one, let's refer to them as the TV and ORG versions.

I think the one you are calling OLD is the ORG and the new is the TV.

maybe there are just two movies called Votergate. If they share footage, that would be very strange.

[FogerRox]

3. Andy told me to go to Votergate.tv

[Helga Scow Stern]

4. I just said old and new because

one had been out and finished for awhile (the .org version), while the other was not yet finished (the .TV version).

I remember being quite confused by it at the time.

So they are old and new, but not necessarily to anyone but those who have seen one first.

And I am not 100 percent sure they do share footage.

[garybeck]

5. comments on the ORG version

I think most of us have seen the TV version. if you haven't seen the ORG version, go check it out. what do you think?

[mascarom]

6. documentary film on the 2004 election is showing in New York

<>(feel free to forward to your friends)
Please join us for the screening of <>

“The Red and the Blue”:
<>“The Grassroots war: a Fight for Every Vote”
<>A documentary film by Maria Pia Mascaro and Gaetan Rousseau

On Wednesday June the 15th at 7.30 pm, admission FREE <>
followed by a Q&A with the filmmakers and some of the characters <>

@ The Creek and the Cave in Long Island City, Queens
10-93 Jackson Boulevard

for map and detailed directions check www.thecreekandthecave.com
<>directions:
7 to Vernon/Jackson (one stop from Grand Central). Exit onto Jackson Ave. Walk one block north to 49th Ave.
E or V to 23 St/Ely Ave. Exit onto 44th to Jackson Ave. Walk five blocks south on Jackson to 49th Ave.

G to 21 St/Van Alst. Exit onto Jackson Ave. Walk 3 blocks south (away from Citibank building) to 49th Ave.
<>A second screening will take place on Monday June the 20th at 7.30pm, admission 5$
at the Millennium on 66 E 4th street between 2nd Ave and the Bowery. <>

short synopsis:
People often equate elections with balloons at party conventions or hard-hitting multi-million dollar commercials. But the 2004 Presidential Election was primarily fought on the grassroots level.

Each side mobilized its base like never before, crisscrossing the swing states with armies of ordinary citizens: churchgoers, students, artists, retirees and housewives. And if the left leaning groups were more numerous, more vocal and often time more creative, in the end, however, Republicans proved to be more effective.

While each side was too busy to watch what the other was doing, The Red and the Blue closely followed both parties during the last months of the campaign, witnessing the battle from the trenches. What resulted is a documentary that details each side’s strategies and tactics, and chronicles their beliefs, fears and hopes.

[tommcintyre]

7. Here's the deal:

Votergate I
http://www.votergate.org/

Votergate II (released just before the election)
http://www.votergate.tv/

Both made by the same people BEFORE the election. They shot a lot of new footage during the election and after (following Bev Harris around - in Florida, etc.), were supposed to be coming out with a doc that will incorporate the old AND new footage (last I heard they supposedly had a deal with HBO). Since the contact names etc. are different, I imagine there's been a falling-out. I just wish they would get their finished film out (before the next election?). ;)

[Andy_Stephenson]

9. No they are not made by the same people.

I was there...I know what happened...Bev fucked over supporters so she could get "camera time".

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. Let me explain what exactly is going on here.

Last September when Bev and I were in New York...She sat for a videotaped interview with the producers of VoterGate.org. Now Russell Michaels and Simon Ardinzone had been following Bev and BBV around for months...they had set up a relationship with the producers of Votergate.org and were funneling their donations and raw footage through the Votergate.org guys. Basiccally what Bev did was to stab Russell and Simon in the back because she was selfish and selfcentered about being in the movie. Simon and Russ are wonderful guys but because of Bevs doublecross they are now not only having to comeup with money to finish their film but for legal fees to stop the Votergate.org fellas from stealing their film. The day Bev gave the interview I was real uneasy about her doing it...I told her she should wait till she spoke with Russ or Simon. But she was dteremined to do it. Funny thing that same day she could have chosen to do an interview with Laura Flanders I had worked hard to put that together...ruined my reputation with laura over it so Bev could fuck over another set of ardent supporters. If there are othere questions feel free to ask.

the real film you should preview and support is at

www.votergate.tv

[garybeck]

10. why should we not watch or support the other one?

I watched it and the content and presentation seem pretty good. If it really is Bev's fault that everything got screwed up I would think that neither of the other parties are to blame. I would like to judge the movies on their content and let the parties work out their problems amongst themselves and their lawyers. We need all the materials we can get to convince people of what is going on with our election system. Both seem worthwhile to me.

If we took sides on every issue and censored the material we share with others based on personal conflicts with which we're not directly involved, there wouldn't be much left to show to people.

[Andy_Stephenson]

11. Honor...

Why support theives and criminals?

[garybeck]

12. I don't think watching a movie is supporting them

we're not selling it, asking people to buy it, or asking people to support them financially. we're just watching the film which is informative.

I'm confused, are you saying Bev screwed the whole thing up, or is it the votergate.org folks that are thieves and criminals? Or Bev caused them to become theives and criminals?

[Andy_Stephenson]

13. Bev screwed the pooch...she did the interview with the votergate.org

people against my better advice. She KNEW that Russell and Simon were doing the movie but she wanted "camera time". Since Russell and Simon are friends I will remain loyal to them and not to people that are trying to steal their film and to ruin them financially as well.