Dr. Dean, get some guts...

[Tuesday_Morning]

... or the DNC will be the "sore losers" in 2006.

Voting Activist Sheri Myers emailed this to me today. She wanted me to post this here. I really like her idea to fax this letter to the DNC.

FAXED TO DNC HQ: [phone]

Dear Chairman Dean and the DNC,

Got your newsletter: "Democrats will take back the House and the Senate in 2006. Send money."

I'd love to help out, but I can't bear to witness more pure hearts breaking because of election fraud. Apparently the DNC refuses to take it seriously, so here's what I'm going to do - because for me, it's dead serious.

1.VOTING RIGHTS HERO #1
I'm going to $upport Bob Fitrakis for Ohio Governor, because Bob's going to talk about election fraud every chance he gets.
He is the incredible attorney/journalist/activist who led the citizen investigation of the Ohio Vote Fraud. Author of
"How George W. Bush Stole the 2004 Election." and editor of the Columbus FreePress.


BTW, (no surprise to anybody) Fitrakis is a Green. http://www.bobforohio.com/

2.VOTING RIGHTS HERO #2
I'm going to send $ to John Bonifaz, who's running for SOS in Massachusetts. I really believe he should be President - ASAP.

http://www.johnbonifaz.com/ This is the guy who created AfterDowningStreet.org and the National Voting Rights Institute, who wrote "Warrior-King: The Case for Impeaching George W Bush" and will institute the Voter Bill of Rights,

3.POTENTIAL HEROES - we ALL win!
I'm going to ask all my vote-loving pals to sign the petition supporting the Rush-Holt bill, immediately.
http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html Now there's legislation that should have passed YESTERDAY.

4. OBAMA STEPS UP!
Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) has introduced a bill, S. 1975, The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2005. I'm calling Senator Boxer to stand with him. This could put lots of Repug thugs on notice for the 2006 election.
www.congress.org

Chairman Dean, how are YOU going to lead?

I don't want to read any DNC decrees. There's a war being waged by the Republican touchscreen companies to eat up our Democracy. THIS IS AN EMERGENCY. I know you're aware of this.

I saw you Dr. Dean, you sat there with Bev Harris, and she showed you how easy it was to hack the vote. "Whoa!" you said. I know you have Mark Crispin Miller's excellent "Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They’ll Steal the Next One Too." AND I know Rev. Jesse Jackson put you with Bob Fitrakis to hear about the Ohio Fraud.

Where'd you go, Howard??
You know we've already lost Ohio to Diebold Republicans?
Doesn't Ohio figure in your master plan to take back the White House?
What about Florida? No? Don't need that state either?
I'm sure you know that North Carolina just caved and certified Diebold, didn't you? OOPS!
And California, about be railroaded by SOS McPherson into buying bad machines. That okay with you, too?

Not a penny, not one phone call, not one online electron will I give to the Democratic Party until you seriously address the fraudulent election process that caused us to lose the last election.

Get the DNC on board, get some guts and get it done.

Onward, as sincere as they come,

Sheri Leigh Myers
Election Reform Activist
Los Angeles

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same.

[kster]

1. KICK AND RECOMMENDED..NT

[MelissaB]

2. I've got a fax machine. Now I've got to learn how to use it.

The time for change is NOW!

[Tuesday_Morning]

4. I bet snail mail

email, phones don't hurt either.

[MelissaB]

3. How the hell did I miss this?

'Fraud buster' Bob Fitrakis Announces Bid for Ohio Governorship

Green Party of Ohio
www.ohiogreens.org

Candidate Release
Bob Fitrakis for Governor
www.fraudbusterbob.com

November 29, 2005

COLUMBUS -- On Tuesday, November 29, 2005, well-known Columbus attorney, author, and radio host Dr. Bob Fitrakis will announce his bid to be the next Governor of the State of Ohio. The announcement will be made on the west side of the State Capitol building along High Street in Columbus starting at 12:30 pm. Dr. Fitrakis has written several books and numerous newspaper columns on the irregularities and outright fraud that were rife during the last few elections in Ohio. Winner of many community and journalism awards, he has been endorsed by the Green Party of Ohio and will be seeking the party's nomination as candidate for Governor next spring, along with two other fraudbusting veterans: Anita Rios (Lt. Governor) and Tim Kettler (Secretary of State). Together they will spearhead the Green Party campaign to clean up the sleaze that has become so entrenched with the two major parties and their big money patrons.

"The goal of my campaign will be to win the Governor's mansion back for the People of Ohio," said Dr. Fitrakis. "Both the Republican and Democratic parties have brought dishonor to our great state with their cronyism and insider dealing. We need to clean house and end this culture of corruption."

Bob and his running mates were principals in the battle waged by the Green Party to recount the votes after the 2004 election. Anita Rios, his running mate as Lt. Governor, and Tim Kettler, candidate for Secretary of State, are both involved in lawsuits against the current Secretary of State because of his official actions which disenfranchised so many Ohio voters and skewed the vote count.


Lots more: http://www.gp.org/press/states/oh_2005_11_29.shtml

[madfloridian]

5. Why not congress as well?

Why not sent thousands of faxes to them, to Kerry, to the ones in congress?

The Greens and other groups only concentrate on the DNC, and what you need to concentrate on are the DCCC, the DSCC, and the DLC, and oh, the DLCC.

The narrow focus on Dean and the DNC is useless. It is the rest who must push for the vote.

So contact all of them as well.

[MelissaB]

7. I think it should be all of them, but Dean is in a unique position IMHO...

[madfloridian]

9. Why? He does not get to vote.

Did you see the post I had up today about Phoenix? He took the input from all over and the DNC compiles it.

Why is his position unique, why not pressure the others as well?

I know why some groups endorsed him. They felt he would be vulnerable because the right wing Dems would love to see him fail.

SO...why not pressure the ones who can do something about it?
If not, explain why his position is more unique than theirs?

Using him because he will be vulnerable from the left and right is not fair.

I would like to see the whole party take this up. But Dean once said there is not much we can do until we get back in power. He says the best thing is do ballot initiatives about elections, that is our recourse right now.

[MelissaB]

10. Well, I was agreeing with you. I think we should apply pressure

to all of them, but Dr. Dean is the party chair, and we know that he has seen what these black boxes can do first hand.

[madfloridian]

13. He has to be careful.

Not mentioning names, but he does. Some researchers have lost credibility on this issue.

Kerry is getting off scot-free here, and he shouldn't.

All of our leaders need to pay attention, but the last report from the DNC a week or so ago, sounded like they were.

[MelissaB]

15. Kerry isn't off scot-free in my mind, but there aren't many who have

spoken out on this issue. A lot of calls, emails, and faxes couldn't hurt,especially if they have some helpful information in them. :)

[madfloridian]

16. But are you sending him emails and letters as well?

And Edwards?

[MelissaB]

20. Yep! I have in the past and will in the future.

Ditto with Dean...

[MH1]

19. What do you mean. "Kerry is getting off scot-free"?

See my other posts on this thread. He is the ONLY co-sponsor on Obama's bill.

He has also co-sponsored (not a complete list. I have to go do college homework. You get the idea):

112. S.450 : A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham (introduced 2/17/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/17/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.391 : A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit certain State election administration officials from actively participating in electoral campaigns.
Sponsor: Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. (introduced 2/16/2005) Cosponsors (5)
Committees: Senate Rules and Administration
Latest Major Action: 2/16/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

S.195 : A bill to provide for full voting representation in Congress for the citizens of the District of Columbia, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. (introduced 1/26/2005) Cosponsors (13)
Committees: Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Latest Major Action: 3/9/2005 Referred to Senate subcommittee. Status: Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs referred to Subcommittee on Oversight of Government Management, the Federal Workforce, and the District of Columbia.

(edited for clarity)

[blm]

21. Kerry's off scot-free? Did we forget Kerry is the co-sponsor of the bill?

.

[madfloridian]

22. I said why not contact him with thousands of mails.

I made that clear. Co-signing a bill right now is good, but we were left hanging last year.

Why isn't Kerry being deluged with mails like they are doing to the DNC and Dean?

Fair question, blm. Fair question. I have never said much about his, but I cried the day he conceded. It was way too quickly and it was a shock. We donated a lot to him, and we campaigned here locally for him as well.

There is nothing wrong with contacting the DNC, but why not the others. My statement was fair, and you know it.

[madfloridian]

23. And another thing...

Dean associated himself with someone who has since been put in questionable status. That is what is going on in this thread, a lot of it. I can't say the names involved because it would not be proper.

So I am at a disadvantage. I can't say how it hurt everyone and caused them to back off.

I'm out of this thread. You know what is going on. The Greens, PDA, and Kucinich supporters are using Dean, putting pressure on him instead of on congress. Why? Ask them.

[blm]

24. That doesn't make sense cuz Dean said voting machines are an issue for

Dems in that email, so I don't get why they're mad about that?

[madfloridian]

26. You figure it out.

I don't how else to say it without getting folks madder.

[madfloridian]

27. Check your messages.

.

[blm]

87. grazie

;

[eridani]

45. Harris is a shrinking part of the election reform movement

PDA and Kucinich supporters are very much interested in putting pressure on Congress as well.

[madfloridian]

48. That is why Dean is the boogeyman now. Hold the right ones to account.

He was the boogeyman about the war, and now about the voting. Neither his fault.

Why do these groups use Dean and the DNC like this? Why? Because they know it is vulnerable to the power of the corporations.

I am very glad this statement was made by Ms Myers. It points out that he is being used because he is vulnerable, and the DNC is vulnerable to the DLC.

Doing this won't pull the DNC to do things the Greens and PDA way. What it will do is allow the DLC more power. Now that scares me.

You guys are undermining the one person who has the ability to help get the party back on track. I resent it.

You are giving the DLC more power.

[eridani]

82. Dean is one of many of the public faces of the party-

--that we have to pressure in order to deal with this Diebold shit once and for all. Why are you assuming that people pressuring Dean are leaving it at that? We are pestering every Dem representative, nationally and locally.

[Tuesday_Morning]

92. exactly

I'm sure this isn't part of any "get Dean" strategy.

I met Sheri online right after last year's (S)election. We were both running around online with our hair on fire, yelling "Theft! Theft!" to anyone who would listen and we bumped into each other. She was so incensed that she raised money from friends and family and went to Ohio to help out there. Since then she's held workshops and seminars in SoCal dealing with election reform. She's an inspiration to me.

Faxing Dean is just a place to start and who knows? Maybe it supports him to be armed with our faxes and emails about election reform. The more pressure we can mount - everywhere - the better.

We need a serous, focussed, grassroots effort.

[madfloridian]

98. Then why don't you post about those efforts as well.

Why not let us all know what is being sent to other Democrats?

[MH1]

18. If you fax Kerry, be sure to THANK him

for co-sponsoring Obama's bill almost immediately. (See my post below). Currently, Kerry is the ONLY co-sponsor on Obama's bill. (Where are the others?)

[IndyOp]

29. Go John Kerry - Good Move!

I am really glad to hear that JK is standing with Obama --

:kick:

[Quetzalro]

6. Great idea! n/t

[MelissaB]

12. Welcome to DU, Quetzalro!

:toast:

[NanceGreggs]

8. Kudos! Excellent post!

Every time a potential voter hears about Diebold, the fraud that went on in Ohio in 2004, etc., that's another person who is not going to be bothered to (a) contribute to a Dem campaign, and (b) vote at all.

What is the point of contributing (collectively) millions of dollars to candidates who will lose their bid at elected office once a switch is flipped in a Diebold (or other paperless, open to manipulation) voting machine?

If you want us to SHOW YOU THE MONEY, you've got to SHOW US that our votes will be properly counted. Otherwise, it's just a useless exercise in utter futility -- and our money is better spent elsewhere.

[MH1]

11. Damn, only ONE cosponsor on S.1975? Interesting....

S.1975
Title: A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 11/8/2005) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 11/8/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.

COSPONSORS(1), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)

Sen Kerry, John F. - 11/10/2005

Also, where's the related bill in the House?

[JanusAscending]

14. WHAT !!!!!!

You mean John Kerry actually does care that he was robbed of the Presidency??????????? PAY ATTENTION ALL YOU "democrats"!!!

[MH1]

17. Part of what is interesting...

is that in the round of kudos for doing good things, the op mentions wanting to get Boxer on board (quite understandable) but fails to mention that John Kerry is ALREADY on board - AND the only one, at this time.

Okay, got it.

[madfloridian]

28. You mean deceptive practices are legal now, not already prohibited?

Or am I misreading the bill.

[MH1]

31. Oops, forgot the link to the bill

S.1975

It's a little too long to post the whole bill here.

I'm not an expert in what's currently legal or not in federal elections, but it appears this is adding more explicit language and specifying criminal penalties, among other things.

It is always possible that something you would think obviously must be illegal, was never actually codified into law, or not into an effective law.


(edit to fix link. DU doesn't like a colon at the end, I see. Hrrmph.)

[eridani]

46. It just came out--time to bug your congresscritters--

BIG TIME!

[madfloridian]

25. Dean had the guts last year....now make the others have guts.

He paid the price last year for being too outspoken for our other Democrats to tolerate. He in Phoenix this week-end doing his job.

Here is what I posted about the 5 issues he is concentrating on in Phoenix. Guess where he got them? From around the country. He is leading, and all the blogs are indicating that people at the DNC meeting there are pleased with the openness and candor being displayed.

If there is anything he had it is guts. The ones who backed out on us last year have not done their job having guts on this issue.


Here is the post on the conference.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5509486

[nicknameless]

30. Excellent.

Recommended.

[madfloridian]

32. So you are saying deluge the DNC and donate to the Greens? Really?

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same.

SO...not even going to give the DNC a chance?

I resent that you are doing that at a Democratic forum.

[fudge stripe cookays]

101. Yes, we know. You resent it.

And you enjoy telling us. Over and over again. Every two minutes. And in how many threads now today? Three? Four?

Please go take a valium. Yours is not the only opinion on this board.

[madfloridian]

105. I did not start the threads.

I started two...one about Dean's speech at the meeting. It got turned into a bashing.

I have a post going now about the good things the DNC is doing. It is fairly decent so far.

I posted about the rules, but I don't have an answer yet. One thread was locked advocating for Fitakis because there is a Dem in the race.

This is not an exclusive forum, and I have a right to post here. I am not attacking.

[madfloridian]

33. Ok, Ms Myers....you won't donate to the DNC, but to the Greens.

So how do you expect them to be effective if you don't support them at all? You are telling thousands of your friends to contact the DNC but DONATE elsewhere.

"Sheri Leigh Myers
Election Reform Activist
Los Angeles

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same."

How dare you threaten the DNC with thousands of emails, and then ask them to donate to the Greens.

[madfloridian]

34. No response?

How do you expect a party to function and work for you when you are advocating thousands deluge them to make more work for staff...and then not donate.

Just asking. Guess I am talking to myself.

[MH1]

36. EXCELLENT point. n/t

[madfloridian]

44. Then why is no one standing with me.

Why?

[madfloridian]

49. I see the K forum posted about this thread.

And no one will take a stand on it. I will remember that.

[Mass]

53. Given that the forum is more or less dead tonight, this is not surprising.

but I agree that I am not sure why the post is attacking Dean particularly. It does not seem to make a lot of sense to me.

[madfloridian]

54. Thank you.

I appreciate that.

[MH1]

59. Well, I'll stand with you on this point, for sure.

I admit I was distracted by the seeming obliviousness to Kerry's cosponsoring Obama's bill. But to be fair, the point you raise is more important in the context of this forum.

I agree, third parties coming here and undermining Democrats is bad.

OTOH, as soon as I saw it as an attack on Dean, frankly I thought you'd have plenty of DUer's taking your side. So I'm a little disappointed in the response, too.

[madfloridian]

60. Thanks, but they won't.

The majority in this forum do not support Dean, do not like him, will never support him as chair. Some advocated for him to be chair because they felt he was vulnerable to the DLC..and they could use him.

And they are doing it, and he and we are vulnerable indeed...and these third party folks coming here and doing this could be the tipping point.

[MH1]

66. Hmmm....

You raise some interesting points, that I hadn't thought of in that way about DU before. It seems there are a lot of subgroups on this forum, and depending what kind of threads one visits, one gets a very different view. (I just checked out the DU Lounge recently...now THAT's an interesting place!)

I'd like to hang out a little longer but unfortunately I have to bug out now. In the future I'll keep an eye out for what you are saying here though.

[madfloridian]

69. Thank you.

My concern right now has little to do with Dean per se. I just happen to know what is going on more than most do. I have close friends in the state DNC, and close friends who thought their progressive group was standing for different things than hurting the party.

This is not about Dean, it is not about Kerry, or any other person. It is about our Democracy. We are a corporate nation already.

I believe we have someone in as chair who could help us get the people in the party, but the very ones he can help have decided to undermine him.

Many others should be very concerned, and I appreciate that you are.

[MelissaB]

79. Wait a minute. How do you know who most people in this forum support?

I guess I'm a bit touchy because this is the forum I spend the most time in, and I'm a Dean supporter. I see and understand some of the points you make in this thread, but saying that the majority in this forum don't support Dean or don't like him is painting this forum with a broad paint brush.

[madfloridian]

104. This is not about Dean at all.

That is the problem. But all you have to do is read a lot of posts here to tell he is not popular at all in this forum.

The issue here is not Dean. It is about Greens and some other independent groups, maybe some PDA, calling Dean out. They are not even Democrats, a lot here, and they are saying they will send out thousands of mails to withhold funding.

That is just not fair. I think that the letter was written by a Green who would not support Democrats anyway.

This thread breaks the rules in many ways. It does not matter to me who they support, that is not the issue. The issue is 3rd party groups are taking advantage of some very nice very sincere people who don't know their agenda is NOT the DNC.

Two people locally trusted a group, then they called upset to day they were going to hurt the local party, something to do with Greens and peace activists. Complicated. These were trusting people,and they were hurt.

This all really has nothing to do with Dean. It has to do with hurting the party.

[fudge stripe cookays]

102. That is patent bullshit.

I am a Deaniac. I love the man. He MADE me political after a lifetime of apathy. I am not a third party member. I am a Democrat. I advocated for him to be DNC chair because I thought he was a helluva candidate. I still do.

HOWEVER, I do believe he has a responsibility to the supporters of his party to make a stand on this, and his has not been strong enough.

And I daresay, your abrasiveness on this topic is probably repelling the people you're trying to attract. People vote how they choose based on their understanding of the facts and what they read. Your idol worship of Howard without seeing any other facts is detrimental to your cause. The man is human-- he has faults, and he can make mistakes as well as anyone else.

Your paranoia is really getting out of hand.

[madfloridian]

103. Sorry you feel that way.

I am sorry that you see it that way. He has had a successful meeting in Phoenix this week-end, and they are next moving down to the precinct level. That takes funding. In spite of you guys withholding funds....there are 5.5 times more grassroots donors than 2001.

I think the old worship thingy is outdated. It is way past its prime. I have been called names for two days by people in this forum....yet you are calling me abrasive.

I don't think sincere people really see what is being done to Dean on this issue and why. I honestly don't believe you do.

I am sorry you are upset, but I am right on this issue. I would appreciate "idol worship" meme not be used against me anymore.

You know it is not true. I am pointing out what is going on, I will continue to do so. It is not pretty. Some here do NOT want the DNC to succeed. Bottom line. I don't put you in that category, I just don't think you are aware.

I think you know I am not a worshipper. My grandkids and hubby feel like do about making this party with Dean as chair succeed. Even our staunch Republican son in the military industrial complex admires him.

Making fun of me does not make this ok. This is a Green party member telling people not to donate to the DNC. That is NOT ok. It breaks the rules here. Asking for donations for Fitrakis when a Democrat named Strickland is running is also breaking the rules. The thread is breaking the rules. I am not.

I have a tough hide, and I play fair.

[fudge stripe cookays]

107. If you would appreciate...

the "idol worship" meme not being used, then stop doing it.

Jumping on anyone in any thread that has an honest complaint about the DNC and their activities and defending Dean until you're blue in the face qualifies (i.e. monitoring each thread and responding like clockwork to anyone who attacks the doc)

Get a life. I'm done trying to reason with a zealot.

[madfloridian]

108. Sorry you don't understand what I am really defending.

Maybe soon you will.

[fudge stripe cookays]

109. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

"The Sky is Falling!"

"The Sky Is Falling!"

[EFerrari]

90. Bob is running as an indepedent. And isn't it a little DIM

to love your party so much and your VOTE so little.

On edit: There are a lot of people like me who left the party over this very issue. The smart thing to do would be to take it on, not the activists that are trying to save your elections. Geezus.

[madfloridian]

35. I hope this keeps getting recommended.

I think people need to see that I have not been off my rocker about groups undermining the Democrats.

I am crosschecking some names with certain groups, so I hope this stays recommended.

Ms Myers says to the DNC stand up for us. But we are not going to support you anyway, DNC..sorry about that.

Sheri Leigh Myers
Election Reform Activist
Los Angeles

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same.

[OnTheOtherHand]

37. whoa, whoa, you don't hafta post every four minutes!

I don't especially agree with Sheri Leigh Myers on this one -- well, actually it's a split decision. Anything that gets lots of people to send money to John Bonifaz, I am inclined to support (a pigeon shoot fundraiser would be a problem). I myself am not a huge Bob Fitrakis fan, but the fact that he is a Green doesn't trouble me. (The letter does not advocate sending money to "the Greens," not that that would trouble me either.) Note that Bonifaz is running as a Democrat.

And the clear purpose of the letter is to say she and others so inclined won't send money to the DNC unless they take up this issue, which IMHO is an utterly legitimate position whether you agree with it or not. I mean, let's be real: most Democrats have never sent money to the DNC.

On edit: so, why do I not especially agree with Myers? Well, I have never been persuaded that there is "a war being waged by the Republican touchscreen companies to eat up our Democracy." But that's almost a quibble here. Calling for voter-verified paper ballots for federal elections, as the Holt bill does, isn't exactly moonshine madness.

[madfloridian]

40. I can post different issues different ways. Not gratuitously kicking.

That would be against the rules. I am glad it is ok to damn Dean and the DNC here and ask for donations to the Greens while damning. I would not have thought so myself.

Sheri Leigh Myers
Election Reform Activist
Los Angeles

p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis and Bonifaz and ask all their friends to do the same.

[OnTheOtherHand]

86. it depends on what you mean by "gratuitously kicking"

I didn't think that you were trying to keep the thread kicked at the top -- frankly, you wouldn't have had to post as fast as you did in order to do that. This forum doesn't have that high a thread-spawning rate.

There did seem to be a fair amount of repetition in your posts, which seemed kind of "gratuitous" to me, but you were probably mad.

"I am glad it is ok to damn Dean and the DNC here and ask for donations to the Greens while damning."

I think that is a misrepresentation of the OP, for reasons I explained in my preceding post. Maybe you have sorted some of this out since last night. A "response" to my post that actually doesn't respond to anything in my post except the subject header isn't very encouraging.

[nicknameless]

38. Looks like Dean is going to Phoenix -- where he doesn't plan to say

anything about vote-stealing machines. Same old, same old ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5509486&mesg_id=5509486

He can focus on noble topics all he wants. Until he fixes the problem of election fraud, no change will occur. Dems will run successful campaigns and suffer mysterious election "upsets" until those f'ing machines are dumped.

Get some guts, Mr. Dean.

[madfloridian]

42. If that is how you feel, that is your right.

I am just amazed that she would say to deluge the DNC and Dean, putting all the burden on them for the way the nominee conceded and did not fight and then donate to the Greens.

That is why this was posted, because it was not one of the five issues. I like those five, and I think we have a good chairman, and I say shame on those withholding support yet demanding.

[nicknameless]

50. Bull.

First of all, the OP states:

I'd love to help out, but I can't bear to witness more pure hearts breaking because of election fraud. Apparently the DNC refuses to take it seriously, so here's what I'm going to do - because for me, it's dead serious.

... Reading is good. :eyes:

Secondly, the issues he's discussing won't help Dems win elections if election fraud isn't addressed. Those who are withholding support are those whose concerns are being ignored and stonewalled -- at the peril of what's left of our democracy -- not just the Democratic party.

[madfloridian]

51. Roll your eyes all you want.

The writer of the letter is withholding support, while demanding.

As I say, I am glad this is getting attention. The fact that the DNC is being used in a squeeze play so there can be 3rd party.

If the OP is that disillusioned, then why advocate swamping them with thousands of letters.

I hope you guys get your 3rd party without destroying what we have....but what you are doing is giving more power to the larger donors and the DLC.

[nicknameless]

55. You have something against reading?!

John Bonifaz is a Democrat!
Rush Holt is a Democrat!
Barack Obama is a Democrat!

Of course people who's concerns are being ignored and stonewalled should withhold support!

DNC is being pressured in an effort to make them honest about election fraud.

Swamp them with letters so that they will stop their ignoring and stonewalling.

The OP is suggesting getting the DNC to change for the benefit of both their candidates and their constituents -- AND FOR WHAT'S LEFT OF OUR DEMOCRACY!

[madfloridian]

57. I did NOT say any of that. I have never seen anything like it.

You are just making up stuff I did not say. This is simply unbelievable at the Democratic forum.

You are making up words, my friends.

I wrote some folks on our DEC/DFA mailing list, and someone has agreed to post it at the DNC blog, the gist of the OP that is. I think they should know.

I am glad to see this getting aired here. Many of knew the undermining of the party was starting soon, just did not think today.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be honest about what you post.

[nicknameless]

62. I’m making WHAT up?!!

Your words here:

“The fact that the DNC is being used in a squeeze play so there can be 3rd party.”
“I hope you guys get your 3rd party without destroying what we have....”

She listed three Dems to support! The reason she’s suggesting Fitrakis is to pressure Dean into getting a spine and addressing election fraud the way Fitrakis has been. Fitrakis undoubtedly doesn’t stand a chance, but withholding money is about all politicians take seriously, so it's a wise strategy!

“The writer of the letter is withholding support, while demanding.”
“If the OP is that disillusioned, then why advocate swamping them with thousands of letters.”

So that Dean will stop ignoring and stonewalling election fraud concerns!

Jeez!!!

[madfloridian]

65. Exactly what I said. She is saying withhold support from the Democrats.

Because of Howard Dean. She is NOT blaming anyone else, just him.

She is advocating hurting the Democratic party and telling Dean she is donating to the Greens.

Why doesn't she, and why don't you....hold other feet to the fire. Dean tried to get this out, twice at least. Once last year through DFA and once with Bev Harris. I am not going to comment further on that except to say he can't go there right now on that issue.

Keep it up, let's keep this going so all can see I was right. There really is an attempt to hurt the Democrats for the sake of a third party at a critical time in our history.

Do you not realize Dean thought about third party? Well, he did. He decided too much was at stake.

[nicknameless]

70. BECAUSE HE'S THE HEAD OF THE DNC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I am not going to comment further on that except to say he can't go there right now on that issue."

?????? Look what just happened in Ohio!!! Look what just happened in North Carolina!!! Look what's happening in California!!! When exactly is the "right" time???

[madfloridian]

72. So you advocate withholding support from the DNC

I understand.

[nicknameless]

74. YES!!! UNTIL ELECTION FRAUD IS ADDRESSED, NO MORE SUPPORT !!!!!!!

[madfloridian]

73. Use your noggin a little.

One person I mention is not that credible at times. Use your brain as to why Dean would not want to be connected. Think about it.

[nicknameless]

75. Who, Bev Harris?

She didn't have anything to do with Ohio, or the North Carolina debacle, or what's happening in California.
Election fraud affects all voters and the state of our republic and our democracy.
They're both in shambles, and Dean can't be worried that the topic of election fraud ties him too close to Harris or anyone else.

[madfloridian]

77. Why don't you hold anyone else responsible?

I am very curious about that? Would you like to see the party damaged now so Greens could prevail?

[nicknameless]

78. BECAUSE DEAN IS THE HEAD OF THE DNC -- NOBODY ELSE IS !!!!!!!!!

THAT MAKES HIM RESPONSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as he refuses to seriously address election fraud, Howard Dean is neither being supportive of Democrats or democracy!!!
The Greens aren't hurting Democrats, Dem leaders' silence and complicity on election fraud is!!!

[madfloridian]

39. Recommended

.

[babsbunny]

41. I love me some Bob Fitrakis!

You MUST hear him speak! He is awesome! He will get us fired up!

[madfloridian]

43. Well, he will get a lot of money because of this post...you think?

He should say thank you to Ms Myers.

[MH1]

56. And what about the Dem candidate for OH governor?

Ted Strickland, I think.

The poster is saying, come support the Green Party, but my understanding is Strickland is a pretty good candidate, and Fritrakis will only Nader him (if he has that much effect).

I'm not up on my Ohio gubernatorial politics though...PA keeps me busy enough...but it does seem this post is undermining to the Democratic candidate in that race.

As for MA Sec of State, I think Bonifaz is running as a Dem... but he is going up against another good candidate in Cam Kerry. Just from looking at Bonifaz' website I think I would have a little concern if I were an MA resident; but he would probably be ok, and certainly better than a republican. It'll be interesting to see how that primary goes.

[madfloridian]

58. I am very worried about all of this.

Our party is very much needed right now. All this does is give the power back to the DLC, when we were starting to make progress.

A friend is going to post this at the DNC blog later. She said she would. I would feel better that they are aware.

[madfloridian]

76. Is he running as Democrat or Green?

It does not say...just says he is a Green.

[MH1]

85. Fitrakis is NOT running as a Democrat

And there is at least one Democrat in the race.

According to his web page:

http://www.bobforohio.com/press/

...he has been endorsed by the Green Party of Ohio and will be seeking the party's nomination as candidate for Governor next spring, along with two other fraudbusting veterans: Anita Rios (Lt. Governor) and Tim Kettler (Secretary of State). Together they will spearhead the Green Party campaign to clean up the sleaze that has become so entrenched with the two major parties and their big money patrons.

Not sure why this thread is allowed to exist.

:shrug:

[KatieB]

47. She's correct re:Diebold in NC - Here's what its Bd of Election's said

to my note, forwarded to him by the Governor's office

My Note:

Dear Governor:
I have learned that the state board of elections has just hired an ex-Diebold employee named Keith Long to help decide which voting machines we will use in the future. Long also has a previous history with Hart-Intercivic and Sequoia. His main claim to fame though, is his involvement with deploying Diebold hardware in Georgia and Maryland.

Last Friday was the deadline for sealed bids for new voting equipment for the entire state. Diebold went to court and got a temporary restraining order to extend the deadline to this Monday and to wave any penalities for failing to comply with new disclosure laws recently imposed by the state.

This is a clear conflict of interest. What is wrong with our state board of elections? Ive been tracking Diebold e-voting machine performance, and e-voting period, and do not have any faith that this Company is above reproach, nor that our votes are safe. Is there any way to stop this or shine a brighter light on it?

General Counsel - N.C. Board of Elections - Response
The Governor's Office referred your e-mail to our agency. Other than appointing the State Board members, the Governor, nor any other elected official directly controls the State Board of Elections. Of course, the General Assembly makes the laws, such as SB 223, that we must enforce.
<snip>

As far as Mr. Long is concerned, he did work for Diebold for a few years ending in 2004. He has also worked for Sequoia Voting systems, and Computer Election systems, which was acquired and became part of ES&S. In addition, he has served as a county election director. He has over 30 years of experience in all aspects of elections both from the governmental employee viewpoint and a voting system vendor viewpoint. He owns no interest in any voting system vendor, and had performed very well for our agency in his temporary position with us in helping organize the effort to approve and purchase voting systems. The choice of what voting systems to approve for purchase is the sole choice of the State Board of Elections, and not any one person.

Don Wright
General Counsel
NC State Board of Elections

[nicknameless]

52. Man, didn't they hand you a load of BS!

First they tell you:

"Other than appointing the State Board members, the Governor, nor any other elected official directly controls the State Board of Elections."

Well, yeah. His appointment of someone with an obvious conflict of interest WAS the problem. And one over which he had TOTAL control.


Also:

"As far as Mr. Long is concerned, he did work for Diebold for a few years ending in 2004.'

In other words, he was there until only a year ago. (Conflict of interest)


"In addition, he has served as a county election director."

Which of the election fraud companies was he working for at the time?


"...(he) had performed very well for our agency in his temporary position with us in helping organize the effort to approve and purchase voting systems.

They've already pointed out his ties to these nefarious companies, and then admit his involvement in and influence over NC's choice of purchases. ... Neat combination of arrogance and corruption.

[MH1]

61. Calling on Ohio people: OH-Gov: What about Strickland????

I'm not from Ohio, but looking at the OH State forum it seems Strickland's a popular guy. So, what this post is doing, is saying support the third party candidate against a good Democrat.

Not sure, but I think that's not supposed to be done on Democratic Underground.

Either way, can any DEMOCRAT from Ohio weigh in on Strickland vs Fitrakis? Are the republicans so far down (with Taft in single digit approval territory now) that it won't matter if Fitrakis takes votes from Strickland?

[madfloridian]

63. The problem is, they don't care if it takes votes away.

That is what I am trying to tell you. I have tried to say that here at DU quite often.

Locally we are running into the same problem. People are finding the progressive group they joined is out to undermine the DEC here.

They don't care. Read the thread. I will be the bad guy for pointing out all of this, and they will continue to undermine.

[MH1]

64. Well I checked the Rules.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

You are not permitted to use this message board to work for the defeat of the Democratic Party nominee for any political office. If you wish to work for the defeat of any Democratic candidate in any General Election, then you are welcome to use someone else's bandwidth on some other website.

Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates. Supporters of certain other political parties may use Democratic Underground for limited partisan activities in political races where there is no Democratic Party candidate.

Seems pretty plain to me.

[madfloridian]

67. Yeh, I posted that a few time myself.

But it gets interpreted all kinds of ways.

[MH1]

68. Heh..

I don't see much room for interpretation there with this post, in the case of the OH Gov race, unless I am wrong about there being a Dem in the race.

Oh well. I gotta go. Been nice chatting...I hope appropriate action is forthcoming.

[madfloridian]

71. Well, this paragraph could possibly qualify.

Well, as of November 17, Strickland was running.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Ohio%20Governor%20Nov%2017.htm

So maybe this paragraph could qualify. But the OP appears to be the one who got the letter, so hard to say.

".VOTING RIGHTS HERO #1
I'm going to $upport Bob Fitrakis for Ohio Governor, because Bob's going to talk about election fraud every chance he gets.
He is the incredible attorney/journalist/activist who led the citizen investigation of the Ohio Vote Fraud. Author of
"How George W. Bush Stole the 2004 Election." and editor of the Columbus FreePress.
BTW, (no surprise to anybody) Fitrakis is a Green. http://www.bobforohio.com /"

Or this one:
"p.s. And just to show how sincere I am, I'm asking 1000 of my vote-loving web friends to substitute their names and fax this letter to you at the DNC, [phone], give $$ to Fitrakis"

However Fitrakis might be a Green but running as a Dem. So that would make it a moot issue.

[MH1]

84. Fitrakis is NOT running as a Democrat!

According to his web page:

http://www.bobforohio.com/press/

...he has been endorsed by the Green Party of Ohio and will be seeking the party's nomination as candidate for Governor next spring, along with two other fraudbusting veterans: Anita Rios (Lt. Governor) and Tim Kettler (Secretary of State). Together they will spearhead the Green Party campaign to clean up the sleaze that has become so entrenched with the two major parties and their big money patrons.

[madfloridian]

93. Then that would be breaking the rules.

But then you and I seem to be the only ones caring about it.

[farmbo]

88. Ohio voters: Please send $$ and votes to Strickland...rally with Fitrakis.

Ted Strickland is a great candidate and an honest man who has the potential to wage a winning campaign against a well- funded, win-at-all-costs GOP nominee...presently assumed to be our friend Ken Blackwell.

STRICKLAND NEEDS YOUR HELP!!!

http://www.tedstrickland.com/

Bob Fitrakis is hard working, courageous activist, and a visionary leader.

BUT HE IS A GREEN!

EARTH TO DU...HE CAN NOT BEAT BLACKWELL!

But Bob's candidacy CAN help to elevate the issue of election fraud and tie it like an albatross around Blackwell's scrawny neck. He deserves our support on this critical issue.

[Nothing Without Hope]

80. OUTSTANDING!!!! Let's hope some light dawns. We cannot win if there

are no democratic elections.

The concerted, deliberate ignoring of electronic election fraud is a conspiracy and all too many "Democrats" are playing along with it by pretending that the only problems with the 2004 election were the long lines.

Not one penny, not one finger lifted until the conspiracy of silent collusion with election fraud is ended.

Recommended. Wish I could give this one more than one. All the rah-rah-rah for Democratic candidates means NOTHING without free and fair elections and vote tallying.

[autorank]

81. Sheri Leigh Myers and Tuesday_Morning: THANKS. Bring IT on!

It's time to revamp the pressure on Dean, time to make him earn his position. I have not permanent attachment or dislike with regard to most of these politicians, just permanent interests, which are broad based and progressive.

We can't reach a single goal unless he rattles some cages. To do this, he needs to clean house at DNC. Brazile needs to be retired, period. Holder and the rest who showed so much promise need to go to, unless it can be demonstrated that they've been developing a "killer" strategy and bag of tricks to combat e-voting fraud.

Bring it on, now and make it hotter than a $2.00 cook stove!

RECOMMENDED

[madfloridian]

96. "time to revamp the pressure on Dean"....using him. Not the others...

This is very sad. Do you hate Brazile enough to try to bring down a good man like him who does really care about the party?

[autorank]

97. Meant "time to ramp up the pressure on Dean" it was late;)

I don't "hate" Brazile and I don't want to "bring down" Dean. I don't see where you could have come even slightly close to inferring that from my comment in support of this post, not even slightly. This is a deliberate misread, or not read. You're fucking with me. Knock it off.

Brazile failed in her work on the Ohio report. It went only 1/2 way on Ohio, correctly pointing out voter suppression but not the fact it was organized and there was clearly election fraud state wide. It went nowhere on election fraud elsewhere.

Don't you think that's an over sight or actually a sign of incompetence (missing the whole country except the most obvious elements of election fraud in Ohio)?

Dean was her boss, for several months. There were lots of DFA folks telling him about election fraud and he indicated some awareness of this in his primary campaign.

He's responsible for approving the report.

I don't wish any of the political personalities anything personally, I hope the all "have a nice day." I do expect them to do their jobs. Brazile and Dean didn't. If we get screwed in 2006 by the Diebold's and Bruce McPherson's of the world, it's our fault and it's going to be Deans fault because he HAS NOT RAISED THE ISSUE, END OF STORY.

"I have no permanent attachment or dislike with regard to most of these politicians, just permanent interests, which are broad based and progressive?"

That's what I said, pretty clear.

DEAN GET THE JOB DONE ON ELECTION FRAUD NOW AND WE'LL THANK YOU.

IF YOU'RE NOT UP TO IT, STEP ASIDE.

[annabanana]

83. FITRAKIS DONATION PAGE NOT SECURE..

Sorry to shout, but no way am I going to send a donation to a page that isn't secure. No Locks, No Bucks.... period.

[Blue Shark]

89. Kick Ass... N/T

[freedomfries]

91. Tuesday_Morning, Sherry Myers spread the heat around...

Pressuring the DNC sounds fine and good, but only if we are also willing to go the extra mile and spread the fire to the entire Congressional delegation, and every other sizeable democratic organization including MoveOn, Dailykos, Common Cause and others, about placing meaningful election fraud-busting measures on the front burner. The DNC can only go as far as the Dem party is willing to go.

"I'm going to ask all my vote-loving pals to sign the petition supporting the Rush-Holt bill, immediately.
http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
Now there's legislation that should have passed YESTERDAY."
As of TODAY, although Rush Holt has managed to get as many as 159 co-sponsors for H.R. 550, it has not even been heard once in committee. Not once! Holt and all the other co-sponsors should be complimented for what they've done, but what about all the other non-signers?
Is your Rep a co-sponsor?

[In Truth We Trust]

94. Paper Ballots NOW! Hand Counts NOW!! IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!

[madfloridian]

95. Question about recent Democratic wins across the country...

How did we do it if there is no election integrity at all?

We won a lot of local elections, whole school boards overturned.

How did we win if there is nothing that works right?

[OnTheOtherHand]

106. ahh, an important question

(I'm going to define "election integrity" as "fair vote counting" just for purposes of this post.)

You might get three broad answers among regulars here: (1) there is no election integrity at all, but it would be too obvious to make Dems lose all the time; (2) there is more election integrity in some places than others; (3) so far the counts may actually be pretty clean, but without voter-verified paper ballots, we will never be able to know. Obviously not everyone will fit into those bins.

[Einsteinia]

99. I love Dean--BUT Dean, the time is NOW!

n/t

[feelthebreeze]

100. Done and kicked...

Goddamit people, wake up!

[MuseRider]

110. I sent it.

My husband and I made the decision a long while ago that our donations will go to individuals who are out speaking about this and attempting to correct it.

I spent a long time speaking with the friends of my two sons, ages 19- 21, about voting. They thought that it did not matter, nobody cared, it would not make a difference. In addition to that George Carlin doesn't vote. :eyes: It took a lot of time and discussion to get them to register (all but one registered with the Democratic party) and I made the calls on election day to remind them to vote. Now they are certain it does not matter. The silence about this hurts us in many ways.