Kerry's comments on e-voting

[garybeck]

Many have already heard this interview, but I have transcribed it and posted it on Solar Bus. Spread the word!





John Kerry raises concerns about electronic voting

John Kerry
Interview - Ed Schultz, 12/21/05
Excerpt concerning election issues

"We brought a couple of lawsuits in Ohio, we were working there on the issue of what happened to our voters, with Mr. Blackwell and others, and the involvement of the machines. Well here we are now, with a Florida election official who has publicly refused to use those machines because they can be hacked, and the company for months and months and months was denying any possibility of hackability. Now you even have the New York Times in one of its editorials acknowledging that these machines indeed can be hacked, and obviously the Diebold company is in trouble for a lot of other reasons....

--snip--

rest of article:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/060105-jk.shtml

[blm]

1. So, he brought it up 3 times in one week, and no network news picked up

the story?

Too busy with the war on Christmas?

[garybeck]

3. ya, that's why we need to

keep the drumbeat going

[robbedvoter]

9. There was one moment in time when they would have....

[blm]

10. The one moment when there was NO EVIDENCE to be had.

Yeah - I hope he shuts up and goes away so NO lawmaker will mention it.

[robbedvoter]

23. There were enough clues for an investigation - that's how proof is

obtained, you know.

[blm]

25. Rigged machines leave no evidence - THAT is the problem and why the

machines need securing BEFORE the voting.

That should have been done by the party for ALL the candidates on the ballot. The PARTY elite DO NOT BELIEVE IN MACHINE FRAUD - or so they claim.

[robbedvoter]

29. lemme draw you a picture again:

[blm]

31. heh....I know, I know.....but rigged machines are set up for onetime use

and there is no trace of evidence to be had. That fact doesn't change.

The best way to handle it now is to demonstrate in a very public way what was demonstrated down in Florida last month, and pound the point home repeatedly till it sinks in with the American people and the press CAN'T avoid it.

We need a TEAM of Dems willing to stick their necks out to do this - so far, we have only a handful, if that.

[garthranzz]

30. On Kerry's silence

A few months ago, I talked to someone who had worked in Kerry's campaign as some sort of liason. He told me that after the election, when Kerry conceded, there was a big sigh of relief among many in the campaign, relief that the "tension" (my word) of 2000 would not be repeated. This relief came despite misgivings. In other words, they did not want to be Gored again and (or) - I suspect - they sensed that this time there was less proof and less impetus (who "won" the popular vote?). I also got the impression that something happened in the "inner circle" that didn't get out. Reading between the lines and putting pieces of the puzzle together, I would say either that Kerry is riding the political winds (although if so, he's taking a chance by picking up the current of impeachment so early) or he presented an "official" front that parroted the Shrub-controlled MSM in order to remain legitimate, while encouraging behind-the-scenes investigation.

Having read most of Tour of Duty, I incline to the latter.

[blm]

33. I heard similar stories - it was mostly the latecoming camp from the

Clinton team who joined up just before the convention.

The other problem is that these folks were all schooled over the years in defending Clinton and his administration, but weren't very sharp and knowledgeable about the actual candidate they were supposed to be working to elect.

[RufusEarl]

2. I just don't get it!

why in the hell do we have to do to convince the Democratic party and John Kerry, that something is wrong with these machines?

And why was the Democratic party trying to get people to drop these lawsuit? This just doesn't make sense. I've seen allot of ink on this subject in the past couple of years, and all of it negative.

But the Dem's top to bottom in the party seem to ignore the problem, almost like it doesn't exist. Don't they understand that it want matter how Good a candidate is, if the election is fixed they want win ever!!

I just don't get it!

[garybeck]

4. most of us don't get it either, however there are encouraging signs

Kerry seems to be willing to talk about it now. it's good to hear him talking about private companies counting votes. I agree it is mind boggling that they haven't done much about it so far but I am encouraged that he's talking now. If he wavers and doesn't follow up on his words, then we know for sure he's a phony. At least now we have him saying, "we have to stay on that one." Let's see if he does. I for one hope so.

[blm]

5. Kerry knows it clear as a bell - can we work on other Dems to join him

to take up the battle? It seems THAT is the area that needs attention. It seems like a natural for so many in congress who joined on Rush Holt's bill.

I doubt Boxer would need much armtwisting, or Durbin.

And, if Feingold is serious about running for pres, wouldn't he be smart to help expose this issue?

[pat_k]

11. Getting "No More Stolen Elections" on the radar.

We can get them on the "No More Stolen Elections" bandwagon. You might be surprised at how effective citizen lobbyists can be. There is no sufficient substitute for in-person dialog, which allows you to directly contradict the many rationalizations and excuses given for inaction.

There is real value to getting in the faces of our representatives. Developing and making an effective case is key. Interest groups spend millions on people doing this type of work.

If any of the following sounds too daunting, don't let it stop you. Keep things as simple as you need them to be to actually DO SOMETHING.

You don't need a lot of talking points or an articulate spokespeople. You can just show up with Mark Crispin Miller's book "Fooled Again." Assert the facts: "Gore Won. Kerry Won." If they express doubts, say "If you have any doubt, read this (MCMs book)." Even if they keep denying the truth, that Kerry won, no one can deny that the elections of 2000 and 2004 were highly suspect. Ask them what they are going to do about THAT: "What are they doing to make sure we will never again have the results of a suspect election shoved down our throats?"

The most effective tactic is to engage in a back and forth exchange. Calling to get the name of the Senator or Rep's scheduler and faxing a written request is the best way to get in the door sample letter. Call to follow up if you don't hear back. Don't go with lots of people, it is not conducive to dialog (three or four max). If you belong to or support a group working on the issue, try to arrange going as their local representative. Find out what actions the congresscritter has taken and acknowledge them. No matter what they have done, our broken elections are not a top priority for many, so you can ask why it isn't at the top of their agenda. Some have a list of issues for constituents to select from when they send comments. Voting rights or trustworthy elections isn't on any of the lists I've checked. The staffer may claim they are on it, but if they don't have it on their web site, you can point to the omission as evidence of the low priority it has for them.

Your task is to elicit their rationalizations for inaction and challenge them. It is important to make the key points of your case in a back and forth dialog. It needs to be two-way conversation. If you are doing all the talking, it is unlikely you are engaging in a way that influences. Typically, the standard rationalizations come up spontaneously, but if they don't, elicit them (e.g., "People working on this issue often find that leaders view it as the exclusive purview of the candidates or parties. Is this an assumption your office makes?" or "We've found that many fail to recognize how activating this issue is. Have you ever noted how powerful the response is when any leader touches on the topic in speeches?"). Ask the tough questions (e.g., "Are hours-long poll-tax-lines for poor, minority voters AND none for affluent, white voters a tolerable condition for you?" or "Can we tolerate secret vote counting?"). If you don't get direct answers, press for them in follow up contacts. Leave them with a short summary of the key points. Follow up with a more comprehensive list of links and material.

These folks are just people. For whatever reason, they have not dedicated resources to the problem. It's circular. Staff is focused on other things. When something is off the collective radar, it is off. If you push and get no response, that’s another matter.

Perhaps they "should" know better, but if they don't "get it", it doesn't mean they are willfully ignoring the issue. More often than not, they just haven't heard enough effective cases for acting. They have been well trained. "You'll get burned if you stand up" is deeply ingrained. They need to know we are out here, and that their action will activate others. Every visit makes our numbers more tangible to them.

[blm]

15. Excellent post. I hope it gets more eyeballs.

It certainly deserves to be read widely.

[kster]

19. BINGO..nt

[RufusEarl]

12. I agree, and I'll help remind him!

[pat_k]

20. Their deep-rooted denial that the system is broken is fueled by the same

...forces that make it SO CRITICAL.

Broken elections tear us up from our roots. The single moral tenet on which the constitution, and therefore the nation, rests is the principle that government power can only be derived from the consent of the governed.

To believe our elections are so corruptable, and have been so corrupted, is to believe we are no longer a constitutional democracy.

It is like living your life believing you're human, and being told one day that you are from another planet. They can give you a ton of proof that you aren't human, but it will probably take you awhile to buy it -- or know what to do about it.

Gore Won. Kerry Won. These facts are earth-shattering in their implications. Coming to grips with these truths demands action, but what action? What to do about it is not clear either.

To deny there is a problem is insane, but that is the nature of denial. Denial is counterproductive insanity -- but is is also something we humans are very good at doing.

The way through denial is to elicit and challenge rationalizations in back and forth exchange. For the most part, our communications with our representatives are one way. To break through the powerful forces feeding their denial we must go beyond our usually ways of engaging. We need to engage in face-to-face dialog. If we talk "at them" we are not going to break through.

[garybeck]

28. some of them do get it

conyers
holt
mckinney
wexler

i know there are more... many have signed on to HR550. i think the party doesn't want to take an official stand... but there are some inside the party that know there's a problem and they do speak about it.

we have to take what we can get. at least some of them get it. we should raise these ones up on a pedestal and reward them any way we can.

[pat_k]

46. Yes. Our Heroes! And don't forget Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Stephanie Tu

...Tubbs-Jones.

Or the Thirty Heroes in the House who voted to uphold their objection to the Ohio Electors on January 6th!

Brown (FL D-3)
Carson (IN D-7)
Clay (MO D-1)
Clyburn (SC D-6)
Conyers (MI D-14)
Davis (IL D-7)
Evans (IL D-17)
Farr (CA D-17)
Filner (CA D-51)
Grijalva (AZ D-7)
Hastings (FL D-23)
Hinchey (NY D-22)
Jackson (IL D-2)
Jackson Lee (TX D-18)
Johnson (TX D-30)
Kilpatrick (MI D-13)
Kucinich (OH D-10)
Lee (CA D-9)
Lewis (GA D-5)
Markey (MA D-7)
McKinney (GA D-4)
Olver (MA D-1)
Owens (NY D-11)
Pallone (NJ D-6)
Payne (NJ D-10)
Schakowsky (IL D-9)
Thompson (MS D-2)
Waters (CA D-35)
Watson (CA D-33)
Woolsey (CA D-6)

[MH1]

22. Ummm....re-read Kerry's comments?

His comments to Ed Schultz CLEARLY show that he is convinced.

If he wasn't convinced before - and I think he was personally convinced, if not confident of the credibility of the evidence available to the public - certainly when Florida election officials are refusing to certify machines because THEY have determined that they can be hacked, then Kerry can point to them and say - "see there are people whose job it is to know this stuff and they are saying the machines are hackable." It means a WHOLE lot more coming from election officials than the guy who lost an election.

[kster]

6. Kick-n-recommended...nt

[Stevepol]

7. K&R!!

[mzmolly]

8. K&R

:kick:

[stellanoir]

13. big whoop

I had forewarned him about this crapola for three years and got nothing but gently pseudo assuring computer generated form letters saying, "thank you for contacting, though we appreciate your concerns, we receive so many letters, we cannot respond to each one. . ." blah, blah, blah

He should have been on this when Mark Crispin Miller told him of those inherent dangers. Theresa did. He didn't. Glad he finally has but it's a little late.

Sorry , a friend just lost a kid in Iraq and I'm more than a little irked.

rant/

[blm]

14. If he doesn't say anything, who will?

.

[stellanoir]

16. we could all be screaming louder perhaps

this is all just so bogus it's enough to make my head truly explode.

would not be a pretty sight I assure you.

[blm]

17. I hear you. I just have to trust the ones willing to speak up at all about

this issue, because the rest of the party really doesn't want to even hear it, let alone believe it.

[garybeck]

26. I don't think I could scream any louder than I am.

i can handle being called a conspiracy nut
i can handle no one listening

but I can't handle living in a fake democracy

the solar bus election justice center will be screaming as loud as possible until we have verified elections and a democracy in our country once again.

[BeFree]

32. Me too Gary

The very idea that the elections have a dark cloud hanging over them makes me sick to my stomach. And it will remain sick as long as that cloud lingers, so I have to fight back. I am in this to the end. Glad to know someone like you, and all the rest of the valiant DU'ers here, are on board. We will win our democracy back.

[stellanoir]

37. just glad there are more than me

who is morally insensed.

it is pathetic really.

[Amaryllis]

18. What was interesting on Ed Shultz was that Kerry brought it up out of

context of what they were discussing, and Ed glossed right over it. Didn't even comment.

[kster]

21. Yes, that was good ,we need to keep on Kerry

so that he keeps bringing it up. As he said "we have to keep on that".

The Ed Schultz, Kerry interview:
http://www.thedemocraticdaily.com/122105SenatorKerry.mp3

[blm]

27. True. And Kerry brought it up to Bill Press and Press glossed over it, too

What are the control powers saying to the Dem "pundits" to keep them from taking up this issue?

[Amaryllis]

35. What I find so interesting is Kerry bringing it up out of context; he

clearly wants to discuss it. Interesting in light of his response to Mark Crispin Miller's reporting on his talk with Kerry, and now Kerry is bringing it up on his own, although not going so far as to say the election was stolen.

[blm]

36. I think Miller was jumping the gun a bit, and Kerry had no idea how many

people would get behind him when he starts to take this on.

Truly, he doesn't know how many of us are out there about this issue, and his experience within the Dem party is that no one WANTS to talk about it at all, let alone deal with it as a major issue.

Heck, what will all those Dem strategists do when it turns out that they were wrong, the party doesn't need to shift position, move right, please big business donors, etc.....all they had to do was get an ACCURATE, HONEST VOTE COUNT.

[Amaryllis]

38. Problem is that a lot of Dems are complicit; Cathy Cox in GA, Conny

McCormick in CA, Richardson in NM. Being in bed with the vendors crosses party lines.

[blm]

39. And possibly why the Dem powerstructure discourages even their pundits

from discussing it publically.

[glitch]

43. Moles. You can bet they didn't plan a coup for all those years;

owning vote count companies, hiring corrupt programmers, consolidating the media, promoting their very unattractive stooges, all the think tanks, and everything else they've done -
you just know they didn't forget the moles in positions where elections are determined.

edit to add: not all are moles. Most are well-intentioned but technologically ignorant. These certainly are not encouraged to get savvy on this issue. I think the moles are in key positions, like secretary of state, in key states.

[Amaryllis]

53. Agree wtih you on every point you made. And some states that

already have a history of suppression of the minority vote and also corruption in the form of a lot of organized crime (i.e. mob ties, etc.) are easier than ones that don't to pull over to the dark side.

[AuntiBush]

24. Kicked for Election Justice!

[freedomfries]

34. kick & rec

Excellent post!

[fearnobush]

40. Phil Knows too.

Notice the Kerry sticker on the amp between Chris and Phil. <>
Phil on Big Brown (Bass)
<>
Dec, House of Blues, AC NJ Dec 10 2005. <>

[MH1]

42. Cool pics!

Thanx.

Not too surprised that Phil Knows.

:hippie: :smoke: :toast: :smoke: :hippie:

[Peace Patriot]

41. I think that what appears to be Democratic Party INSANITY on the...

...matter of private BUSHITE corporations OWNING AND CONTROLLING the "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code that tabulated all our votes in 2004, with virtually no audit/recount controls, is mostly a matter of two kinds of corruption:

1. Venal corruption and fear.

Venal corruption at the state/local level, and among state/fed legislators. Bush's Congress appropriated $4 billion to be poured into the pockets of rightwing Bushite corporations--mainly Diebold and ES&S--for very expensive, very insecure, unreliable, and extremely hackable electronic voting systems on a crash-course basis (with most election officials not understanding what they were buying), during the 2002-2004 period. Diebold and ES&S spent multi-millions on lobbying. They just had one of these hogfest lobbying junkets at the Beverly Hilton, last August--a week of fun, sun and high end shopping for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia! There is also highly corrupt "revolving door" employment, for instance, former CA Sec of State Bill Jones and his chief aid Alfie Charles, who brought the plague of electronic voting to California, immediately went to work for Sequoia after leaving the Sec of State's office.

So you end up with a whole bunch of state/local officials addicted to being "lobbied," heady with power over voting systems that the poor peon voters don't have a clue about, and who have become advocates for these private companies. We saw this at work in California, when Democrat Connie McCormack, head of L.A. elections, whose best friend (who she wines, dines and vacations with) Deborah Seiler was the chief salesperson for Diebold in Calif, HEADING the campaign against Dem CA Sec of State Kevin Shelley, because he sued Diebold and banned their touchscreens prior to the 2004 election. The new Dem state leg leaders (the old retired recently) then failed to back Shelley, out of cowardice or corruption. You see, I think elected Dems are afraid of people like McCormack. McCormack advocates PAPERLESS voting. She and other such county officials now CONTROL the voting, using machines with OBSCURED code--code none of us is allowed to review.

And some elected officials are afraid of Diebold and Bushites and the rightwing junta. Look what they were able to do to Kevin Shelley--a perfectly honest man, one of the few honest election officials in the country! There were Dems in the CA leg who wanted to support Shelley. They got strong-armed to shut up--just like we grass roots Dems have been ignored, given blank-eyed stares, and have met a wall of resistance to the plain facts about this corrupt, non-transparent, fraudulent voting system. The "word" came down. Al Franken wouldn't talk about it. Paul Krugman wouldn't talk about it. All the major left commentators, columnists and publications, including several blogs, with few exceptions, refused to talk about it. Michael Moore wouldn't talk about it. Kerry wouldn't talk about it. Terry McAuliffe wouldn't talk about it. Donna Brazile wouldn't talk about it. Hardly any elected officials would talk about it. Even Boxer and Conyers focused their attention almost exclusively on the Ohio Voting Rights violations, and NOT on the huge, glaring NON-TRANSPARENCY that Bushites were counting all our votes IN SECRET.

Venal corruption. Fear. Group-think. Only rarely do I think that it was ignorance. It is these peoples' JOB to understand how our votes our counted and to monitor elections for fairness. They failed, catastrophically, to do their job. I don't think it's because they didn't know. The earliest state/county officials who bought these systems may have been ignorant (may have been!), but by late 2003, and certainly by May 2004, when Shelley sued Diebold, there was no longer any excuse for ignorance or lack of knowledge of how non-transparent these systems were, and who controlled them. And there was evidence as early as 2002 (in Max Cleland's surprising loss in Georgia).

2. War profiteering and pro-war policy/Dems.

I think there are those in the Dem Party leadership--some who advised Kerry--who favor Bush's war in the Middle East, and who did not want a president who was beholden to the grass roots antiwar majority (which is about 90% in the party, and 60% to 70% of the American people). It was the grass roots that did all the work for Kerry, for instance getting a blowout success in new Dem voter registration nearly 60/40 in 2004, and a huge turnout, with the great majority of new voters, independents and former Nader voters all voting for Kerry. I think these War Democrats (among them people like Sen. Christopher Dodd) knew full well what a fraud this electronic voting system is, and threw the election, for reasons of war profiteering, ties to the offensive war machine, and pro-war policy. I picked up somewhere that Dodd advised Kerry on electronic voting. That explains a lot.

Then there are the war profiteering corporate news monopolies who DOCTORED their exit polls, on everybody's TV screens, late on election day 2004, to "fit" the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret vote tabulation formulae. Kerry won the exit polls. They "adjusted" the exit polls--in absurd, impossible ways--to confirm what Bush's buds at Diebold and ES&S were saying, that Bush won.

It was the most despicable journalist crime that I have ever witnessed. They thus denied the American people major evidence of election fraud, and squelched protests and calls for investigation. They very nearly killed our democracy that day, or tried to.

And so, you have to think of the people caught up in this fascist situation--this junta--who may have good instincts and good intentions, and have some compassion for them, trying to tightrope walk among the many forces out to destroy them and which are hell bent on piling riches on the rich, and using the rest of us as slave labor and cannon fodder. It cannot be easy for the good and the honest. The political and news monopoly establishments give them no support at all. And it seems to always be the worst of the warmongers and fascists, and the corrupt, compromising slimebags, who win.

It's a complex picture, but we need to understand it. And we need to work at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have potential influence, to CHANGE this election system and RESTORE our right to vote--and also support items like Russ Holt's HR 550 (a good bill, which will ban undisclosed software, among other things, and has 169 co-sponsors). We shouldn't wait around for federal solutions, though--which probably cannot occur in this illegitimately elected Congress, and it was the feds of the Bush junta who destroyed our election system in the first place.

-------------------------

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

[texpatriot2004]

44. So, this was just before Christmas? I missed this. Did anyone

else miss it when it happened?

[jillan]

45. I missed it too.

Glad this was posted.

K&R!

[warbly]

47. i guess i'm glad kerry's on board

too bad he didn't listen to what a lot of people were saying about the evote machines before the election, but i guess i'm just bitter after that quick concession after all the talk of fight for every vote, teams of lawyers, etc...

i'm not inclined to support him for President again, but him speaking out now, however late, is better than nothing, and maybe it will give some cover to other congress folks to push voting reform.

[kster]

48. Welcome to the DU

Kerry has got what he needs to move forward on the election theft machines, Keep an eye on Kerry from now on, I believe you will be pleased. Thats just my opinion.

[blm]

50. If he works to expose the machines he earns the presidency....yet again.

.

[emlev]

49. It sure wasn't the Dems who brought those suits!

Thank you, Garybeck, for your comments about what Kerry said, as well as for transcribing and posting part of his interview.

Has he denied having said this yet?

[rman]

51. which representatives did vote for privitization of the election system?

[Free the Press]

52. um, if Kerry was CEO of a fortune 500 company, would the MSM report this?

[Amaryllis]

54. Report what? He wouldn't be talking about voting machines if he

were CEO. And even if he did, I think MSM only reports the party line. Same group owns them that owns the voting system companies.