It Couldn't Happen Here: By E.J. Dionne (WaPo)

[kpete]

It Couldn't Happen Here

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, July 7, 2006; Page A17

(snip)

But there are potential problems. L?pez Obrador has had questions about the results in the state of Tabasco. Mr. Calder?n and Mr. L?pez Obrador, please, please make sure that you don't have some close relative in charge of things down there.

How would it look if the governor of the state was your own brother? What would people think if the top official in charge of elections was your sibling's partisan ally who made every key decision in your favor?

The American media would go nuts. On Fox, Bill O'Reilly would condemn the sleaze and nepotism while declaring, confidently, "Thank God such a thing could never happen in the United States of America!" CNN's Lou Dobbs would add a "Broken Ballot Boxes" segment to his long-running series on "Broken Borders." Mexico, don't go down that road.

Another thing: Whichever one of you is ahead at any given point, please don't ask that the counting be stopped abruptly just because you happen to hold the lead. Don't have some high-class lawyer with a name like Jaime A. Panadero III come out and say things like, "I don't believe that the people of Mexico want this national election turned over to lawyers and court contests" -- and then have the very same lawyer direct other lawyers to go to court to stop any further counts.

If either of you did such a thing, wouldn't it look hypocritical? Would it not seem as if all you cared about was obtaining power -- and that you didn't care how you got it? It would spoil the legitimacy of your election

more at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/06/AR2006070601549.html

[IndyOp]

1. Yes! We must make the connection between Mexican theft of election

and US theft of elections! Same story, some names changed.

:grr:

[ugarte]

2. "Jaime Panadero"...I like that...very clever, good column...nt

[grytpype]

3. :rofl:

:rofl:

Coups are funny.

[karlrschneider]

4. Jorge Arbusto vs. Alberto Sangre

;-)

[Dembo98]

5. Truth is stranger than fiction.

We need to be real careful about comparing the Mexican election to our own. Say what you want but every third party source down there says this thing went down fair and square. The loser is contesting because...well... he lost. Hitching our wagon to this gives us less legitimacy and I think serves only to make us look similar.

[BeFree]

6. You think we are legitimate?

That would be hilarious.

Say what you want but I doubt every third party source says the Mexican election went down fair and square.

[Dembo98]

9. every third party source I have seen...

says that the election was fair and square. Can you find me anyone, not in the loser's tent, that says differently? I think our claim that Gore was screwed out of the presidency was legitimate, not that the process was. I think this differs from the Mexican election where ultimately the process will be shown to be legitimate.

[BeFree]

10. Ummm, Greg Palast?

Now, you show me your every other. One must be careful to make such a claim as your's, as we are not your ordinary dummies.

Jumping to conclusions, as you have, is not to be taken lightly. Waiting for the facts to come in and be studied by all sides is the only correct way to come to conclusions.

You may, of course, retract your jump, if you will.

[Dembo98]

12. Oh boy, here we go...

do me a favor and cut and paste anything of substance you can find about him saying the election was rigged. I see him trying hard to connect the dots but see absolutely nothing of any substance. Do you? To say that you are not the ordinary dummy may be correct, but conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen, I hope you have some substance for me. Waiting on you...

[BeFree]

13. I am waiting

On the whole story before jumping to conclusions, as you have.

Where are your "every third party" quotes? DU has lots of space, so fill 'er up.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jackpine Radical]

15. Wow. Of course it was a legit election. Doesn't every

election involve finding uncounted leftist ballots still in their boxes in the local dump?

Doesn't every recount involve refusing to actually look at the ballots?

That's pretty much the way it happens here, and God knows WE're a poster child for democratic procedures.

[Dembo98]

17. You guys are missing the point...

We only have so many bullets in the gun. If we go out there and get "outraged!" everytime some conspiracy theorist types something on his blog, then we become the party of screaming mimi's. My point is that there is no reporting of fraud by anyone but the loser. If it changes in the future, and evidence comes to light, then thats different. But I hate to see people running willy nilly, screaming election fraud, trying to say that this is just like the 2000 election. We look stupid doing this and we lose the high ground when talking about 2000. Everything is not outrageous and by acting that way our outrage becomes inconsequential to everyone else.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

24. No spin here, just facts

Post #19
My whole point is wait and see.

Post # 9
I think this differs from the Mexican election where ultimately the process will be shown to be legitimate.

Post #23
I think you definately(sic) make your point that we should definately(sic) be pissed off about the Mexican election.

Post #24
I am saying that the "Mexican" election appears to be clean.
&
I'm saying that the mexican election appears to be legit.


See, you have jumped to a conclusion(s). Some say that the Mexican election appears to have NOT been legit. You say it was.

You, dembo98, are all over the place saying one thing in one post #19 then saying something else in other posts.

All along I have said don't jump to conclusions but it's quite evident you have even tho you say "wait and see".

You are making no sense; unless what you are trying to do is what the media has done to the story of the US elections?

As was stated earlier, the Mexican authorities will be studying the case and they have until Sept. 6, to issue a final ruling. Take your own advice, why don't you, and wait and see.

[w4rma]

25. Define "clean"

http://www.jornada.unam.mx.nyud.net:8090/2006/07/05/portada.jpg
Election ballots found in trash dump in Veracruz

[Laurab]

22. Why do you keep saying "we"?

Please speak for yourself, you're not speaking for me. "We" lose no "high ground", the theft in 2000 is pretty much a fact, and 2004 is beginning to look that way as well.

"We" don't look stupid. It isn't "outrage", it is questioning, Greg Palast is usually right on the money, and E.J. Dionne is a damn good writer who usually knows what he's talking about.

Welcome to DU - enjoy your stay, and please remember to speak for yourself.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

26. Here ya go, FWIW. I imagine you could have the entire international

community claim fraud and you'd still hold onto your own personal opinion that it's "losers whining".

Venezuelan deputies report abnormalities in Mexican elections

http://english.eluniversal.com/2006/07/06/en_pol_art_06A739729.shtml

Anatomy of a scandal foretold
How was the Mexican election stolen? Let us count the ways

http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=1070&catid=4

And, here's a little video about the 2004 election and Ohio. You'll probably go into immediate denial, but here it is.


http://www.velvetrevolution.us/#020505

Enjoy your stay. MKJ

[Ned_Devine]

27. To post #5...Are you kidding?

[Time for change]

7. Excellent analogy

Our election system IS third world. And until Americans realize that it is not likely to improve much.

[BeFree]

8. .......

[Jackpine Radical]

16. The main difference between us & the 3d World (e.g. Mexico)

is that at least they know they've been screwed & they're ready to go to the barricades about it.

They care about being screwed. We don't.

[Dembo98]

18. How were they screwed?

.

[ejbr]

21. No one knows

how they were screwed. They just up and drank too much tequilla, passed out and woke up with a sore ass. :evilgrin:

[Joe Chi Minh]

11. Hilarious. Brilliant. And all the more devastating,

for being reality-based.

[jaysunb]

23. Bravo Dionne !

Bravo !