What's Wrong w the Holt Bill in 3 Easy Bullets

[mod mom]

Sorry if this has been already posted. I checked and didn't see anything but have been away on vaca with intermittent access. Please read the entire piece:

Stop the Executive Branch from Taking Over our Elections: Amend or End HR 550




What's wrong with the Holt Bill in three easy bullets

Common Cause, MoveOn.org, TrueMajority, VerifiedVoting.org, and many other large election reform groups are pushing - and pushing hard - for passage of HR550 (the Holt Bill), national legislation aimed to amend the Help America Vote Act. The bill is being sold as a way to put "auditable paper trails" into national law. Sounds like a great idea. But many activists disagree with the approach to support "paper trails" that might be audited when what we want are real paper ballots that are - not might be - counted.

The other problem with HR550 is that it is about much more than paper trails. Read below the dangerous details that the groups pushing for passage of HR550 "as written" aren't talking about.

The democratic processes of the American Republic are based on decentralized power. Centralized power led to the American Revolution. Centralized power is the antithesis of a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

<SNIP>

http://electiondefensealliance.org/stop_the_executive_branch_from_taking_over_our_elections_amend_or_end_hr_550_0

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

1. Stop Rep John Conyers, a co-sponsor of HR 550?

Does anyone think that Rep John Conyers would co-sponsor legislation that would
let the executive branch take over our elections?

The well respected US Congressman and statesman, Rep John Conyers- is a co-sponsor of HR 550.




Rep Conyers wrote the book - he commissioned a serious report on elections:

Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in OhioFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
See also Forum on Preserving Democracy – What Went Wrong in Ohio (Dec. 8, 2004). (statement of Rep. John Conyers, Jr.). 217. Id. 49. behind closed doors" ...
http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/ohiostatusrept1505.pdf

[kster]

2. KICK-N-RECOMMENDED, A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!

"real paper ballots that are - not might be - counted". Thats what I'm talking about.

[mod mom]

6. Counted at the precinct level with full public witness. (videotaping

allowed)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. why don't you trust Rep John Conyer's judgement?

Seems like you would change the icon in your profile
since you disagree with Rep John Conyers so strongly about HR 550.

Why is it that given all the work he has done investigating the
election, and his long time work as a lawmaker, that
you don't trust his judgement?

Do you reckon that this octagenerian is just a poor misguided
naive congressman?

[mod mom]

9. As much as I respect John Conyers (one of only 3 Dems that I continue to

financially support), I respectfully disagee with his conclusions. He is human and has been wrong before (can you say HAVA). I respect his continual fight for democracy, but disagree with his support of Holt.

BTW, did you know MCM's (who is a supporter of HCPB and against Holt) parents were the publishers of "What Went Wrong in Ohio"? Did you also know that Fitrakis, and many others who supplied much of the content in that publication, are also against Holt and for HCPB?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

13. and Conyers came to a differnent conclusion then them

I'll go with Conyers on this one.

Wisdom, experience, the whole 9 yards.
Plus he's been around a long long time.

[fooj]

10. Andy supported HR 550...

It's not perfect but it's a start. I'll stick with Andy and John Conyers on this issue.

[OnTheOtherHand]

11. yes, EDA's political analysis is odd

If HR 550 puts the administration one line away from a bloodless coup, why doesn't it instruct its Republican majority to write that line into the bill, pass it, and get on with the Brave New World? Why is it that actually most Democrats are lined up in favor of the bill, and a relatively small number of Republicans have signed on?

For that matter, since the Election Assistance Commission already exists, presumably we are already one line away from a bloodless coup -- so why is this even an argument against HR 550?

[BeFree]

12. Why not?

If the pukes got behind amending 550 they would be saying that the 2004 election *could* have been stolen by paperless machines. Why would the crooks ever even begin to admit the fix was in? Amending the law that cracked the safe would be like an admission of guilt.

The democrats, bless their hearts, and the few repukes who do care about democracy are willing to get behind the change in law that would -maybe- keep it from happening again.

The bloodless coup already happened, but only a few brave souls are willing to admit that it did.

[Kurovski]

3. kick to the top.(nt)

[autorank]

4. I like Election Defense Alliance...excellent points, thanks.

We don't have time to give to any who would muck around with our elections and our government.

I don't think people realize the value of a stolen national electing: $12,485,725,000,000 ($12.5 Trillion)

That's our gross domestic product. That's what's at stake.

Why go 1/2 way. Secured through chain of custody, etc., paper ballots are the best record of an election and are the most reliable when the last intermediary is removed, an optical scanner.

Clear procedures need to be in place to assure observation of counting and tabulation and custody of
the ballots but there is no machine interfering with the count.

The stakes are too high not to demand the best solution now. We don't have much time given the
damage that has been done by Bush and what needs to be fixed, i.e., our ability to sustain life
on the planet.

[bleever]

5. We don't want Holt to be HAVA redux.

I.e., a "fix" that institutionalizes newer and better loopholes.

[w4rma]

7. Paper *ballots* with the force of entrenched law behind them. (nt)

[kster]

14. kick.nt

[BeFree]

15. So where is the new 550v2?

If we are going to have changes in election systems, we need them soon so that the BoE's can adapt.

So far, all we've seen is this:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-6414

This bill was introduced by Rush Holt in Dec. 2006.


109th U.S. Congress (2005-2006)
H.R. 6414<109>: Vote Tabulation Audit Act of 2006
HR 6414 IH
109th CONGRESS
2d Session
H. R. 6414
To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to establish standards for the open and accurate tabulation of votes and aggregation of vote counts in elections for Federal office, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
December 7, 2006
Mr. HOLT introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on House Administration

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL
To amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to establish standards for the open and accurate tabulation of votes and aggregation of vote counts in elections for Federal office, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Vote Tabulation Audit Act of 2006'.
SEC. 2. STANDARDS FOR OPEN AND ACCURATE TABULATION OF VOTES AND AGGREGATION OF VOTE COUNTS
...

[Kurovski]

16. Kick.(nt)

[autorank]

17. Goor morning and a happy #5;)

You're the best!

[Bill Bored]

18. Why are you posting about last year's bill Mom?

Been there, done that.

We need to focus on the here and now, don't we?

[OnTheOtherHand]

19. not her doing -- it got kicked n/t