MACHINES & AUDITS vs. HAND-COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS

[kster]

November 23, 2006 at 22:57:18

Meet the New Boss: Jennifer Brunner, Secretary of State

by Rady Ananda

http://www.opednews.com

SNIP...Secretary of State-elect Brunner advised she would work closely with U.S. Rep Stephanie Tubbs Jones on national legislation addressing these issues. My heart sinks. Neither the Holt nor the Kucinich bill (HR 550 and HR 6200) is sufficient to restore trustworthy election conditions.

No matter what agreement public officials have made with private corporations to administer public elections, democracy advocates reject electronic voting. There are virtually limitless ways these machines can be hacked, without leaving a trace. This fact precludes giving HR 550 serious consideration, since it offers to audit the machines.

Ohio Boards of Election proved, in the 04 recount, they are incapable of performing legally-required "random" audits. In an Orwellian redefinition, Blackwell changed the meaning of random to "select" when auditing 3% of the precincts to determine if a full recount was needed. This redefinition violated Ohio law. The Ohio recount never legally occurred. Bush was handed another presidency.

HR 550's audit contemplations can stay in committee for the next millennium for all the good they will do democracy. Honest elections preclude electronic voting systems, and their audits. Whether by design or ignorance, HR 550 proponents back a corrupt system.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rady_ana_061122_meet_the_new_boss_3a_j.htm

[Bill Bored]

1. This is why HR 550 bans toilet paper VVPATs.

Or at least it should.

[kster]

2. HR550 also allows the secret vote counting to stay in place..nt

[Bill Bored]

3. I'm not going to have this argument but 550 bans undisclosed s/w.

If the s/w is disclosed, it's no longer a secret, is it?

If you don't like computers, get a dog!

But seriously, why don't you get HCPB for local elections in your county since those are the easiest ones to rig, even with a paper trail?

[kster]

5. I'm trying my friend, I'm am trying......

as for the dogs we have two of our own dogs from the shelter, and a foster dog for about another week, then she goes back to be adopted.

[kster]

6. delete

[Peace Patriot]

9. Local county officials can't slaughter 100,000 innocent people, and

torture prisoners, and steal billions of dollars in "reconstruction" money, and drive the deficit up to $10 TRILLION.

It's the presidential election that paper ballots are critically important for. And how they are counted. And who gets to watch. If anybody. And secondly Congressional elections. Let the Republicans have all the dog-catcher positions. We take all the psycho/master thief catcher positions, and send a Magna Carta to the king. Hey, I like this. And it's given me another idea: Republicans vote on the Bushite-rigged electronic machines, and Democrats vote on real ballots--and get to watch them counted. Har-har. Faith-based voting vs. real voting. They can even get a little "Jesus I voted" decals for their lapels. And we get decals that say, "I voted--really!"

[Bill Bored]

16. All true Peace Patriot, but federal election results can be confirmed with proper audits

and local races can't. And some local races are for Elections Supervisors and state legislators who can redistrict the US House. That's -- a lot more important than just Dog Catchers. If they can gerrymander enough districts, they won't even need to steal elections elections. Letting them steal the local races is a big mistake. Just look at what happened in Texas!

[truedelphi]

13. Hold it | What is s/w ? ACRONYMS make my head spin

Please explain any acronymns pertinent to discussion

[Bill Bored]

15. Sorry. s/w = software nt

[Eric J in MN]

4. So now we're supposed to be mad at a Democrat

...for saying she supports a Democratic bill which many of us have been advocating for year?

[kster]

7. You should not be mad, because

"Whether by design or ignorance, HR 550 proponents back a corrupt system".

She may not get it yet, But she will !!

[Peace Patriot]

8. I have to agree. HR 550 itself endorses electronic voting, and tries to "fix"

an extremely corrupt system, by giving BUSHITE electronic voting corporations MORE MONEY--for printers, upgrades and more crapass, insecure, unreliable, insider hackable voting machines. And more lies. And more subversion. And more lavish lobbying. And on and on.

Seems kind of nuts.

Personally, I doubt that even HR 550 will make it past Sen. Diane ("you too can learn to love the Corporate Rulers") Feinstein, who will be chairing the Senate elections committee. When I heard that, my heart sank. There goes the ban (or is it just "escrow"?) on secret programming, and the (utterly paltry) 2% audit, and here come the loopholes (what of the secret programming in the central tabulators?--the bill says "voting machines"--it's got loophole already). And more Delay/Ney/Dodd-type bullshit.

But, look, gang, some of us have known all along that we, the people, have to solve this one on our own. Most of our top Democrats VOTED FOR the "Help America Vote Act," and have not whispered a word of objection to Bushite corporations "counting" all our votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code. We CANNOT count on the people who took away our right to vote to give it back. We would be fools to do so. And we also have the problem of them possibly making things worse.

Here's one way to approach it--for those who want to fight for a Congressional bill: Require that all votes occur on paper ballots, and that the paper ballots be hand-counted and the results posted BEFORE any electronics are involved. The corrupt election officials and their election theft industry partners can keep their multi-million dollar e-voting contracts, for the time being--and use the machines only for double-checking the handcount and storing/reporting data.

Fat chance, I know.

I think the real key to what we, the people, can do, is the huge Absentee Ballot vote in the recent midterms. We election reformers have a natural constituency in this huge chunk of discontented voters, who are trying to get around the rigged electronics by voting with an Absentee Ballot. These voters--people who don't trust the machines, and are boycotting them--need to be organized and focused on pressuring LOCAL officials, to, a) HAND COUNT the AB votes, and b) POST the AB vote results BEFORE any electronics are used. We thus begin to build a paper ballot system BY DEFAULT. The AB voters WANT paper ballots, and are sufficient in number to have clout in local/state jurisdictions. These simple, common sense demands are doable. And it will snowball. Once AB voters start getting a real count, other voters will want that, too. Again, by this strategy, we avoid a head-on collision with the election theft industry, and circumvent the $3.9 billion in e-voting contract corruption of our election officials (the biggest obstacle to reform). This strategy also begins to drive a bit of wedge between the corporations and the election officials. It gives the election officials a way to save face.

[truedelphi]

14. Thanks Peace Patriot. I agree wit cha...

[phiddle]

10. How about Oregon's vote by mail system?

Sen. Ron Wyden is introducing legislation. See http://www.wyden.senate.gov/media/2006/11092006_15_Reasons_for_VBM.htm

[w4rma]

11. Until the Holt bill supports paper *ballots* I cannot support it. This elusive paper "trail" won't

work. There is nothing in the law mandating a count of a "trail" there is no long term laws in existance dealing with "trails". It creates a grey area of the law.

The ballots themselves must be the hardcopies.

And Kucinich's bill goes too far and not far enough, at the same time. It only applies to one federal election that occurs every 4 years. And I am not confident that it can pass because a requirement to hand count every vote may create an opposition from election officials. The paper *ballot* is absolutely needed. No bill will work without that requirement.

[seafan]

12. Agree, w4rma. Hand-counted paper ballots must be the gold standard.

And, pen and paper ballots that are hand-counted at the precinct under direct public observation, with the results telephoned in to the Secretary of State's office should be the norm for EVERY election.

For heaven's sake, we cannot allow midterm elections to be counted by machines!

Kucinich's bill should apply to ALL elections, not just Presidential.

[In Truth We Trust]

17. Exactly! Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW! Transparency NOW!