NYT BREAKING: MASSIVE E-VOTING FAILURE IN NEW YORK!

[Bill Bored]

(Of course, we don't actually VOTE on this junk!):party:

<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/04/opinion/04mon4.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin>

Editorial Observer
What’s Wrong With My Voting Machine?
By ADAM COHEN
December 4, 2006
The New York Times

To the long list of recent Election Day horrors from butterfly ballots to six-hour lines, add “vote flipping.”

In Ohio, Illinois, New Jersey and other states last month, there were reports some confirmed by election officials that when voters touched the screen for one candidate, the machine registered it for another. One Florida Congressional race, in which the Republican won by fewer than 400 votes, is in the courts because paperless electronic voting machines may have failed to register as many as 18,000 votes.

-snip-

New York’s official testing agencies notified election officials last week that none of these five machines fully meet the state’s standards. New York has been the slowest state to adopt new voting machines, and the fact that the manufacturers were displaying products that still did not comply with state law says a lot about the basic level of competence in the industry.

No one in New York has much patience for more delay. But if it comes down to waiting longer or sticking voters with illegal or unreliable machines that will undermine democracy for years to come, officials should wait, and insist on better machines. New Yorkers, and all Americans, deserve better choices than the voting machine industry is offering.

[annabanana]

1. "no one"??

"No one in New York has much patience for more delay."

I can wait forever. I like the good old simple lever machines. When you've voted on one of those babies, you KNOW you've voted... Ker-CHUNK. Curtain flies open, you're done.

[bagrman]

2. VOTE BY MAIL-VOTE BY MAIL- VOTE BY MAIL - Change now before next election.

[Larry Allen]

6. You still don't know that your vote was counted.

There are chain of custody questions. These votes are counted by optical scan equipment which is just as hackable or more hackable than touch screen equipment. You will never know if your mail in ballot was marked as "spoiled". The vote counting procedures are entirely out of the perview of the public.

The best arrangement is paper ballots hand counted for federal elections at the precinct level.

[bagrman]

8. MMMMMM and you do. At least the computer didn't change it in front of me.

[eridani]

21. Explain how you know that n/t

[bagrman]

24. How does anyone know for sure.

[eridani]

27. If we had public oversight of the process, we WOULD know n/t

[bagrman]

28. Who said " It doesn't matter who votes but who counts them".

Electronic machines can change 1000s of votes at a time. Voters can be turned away at the polls for eronious reasons. Long lines can send people home. Work can keep people from getting to the polls.
A lot of machines have no paper trail.
A low tech answer may be the answer. Voting by mail would save money in the long run, and have the
local high school in each precint count the vote, we'll be training the next bunch of voters the importance of voting.

Latr

[Bill Bored]

5. Personally, I can wait until the cows come home.

And in some parts of NY, that could take a while.

[gristy]

3. What are you talking about?

Except for the word E-VOTING, your headline does not represent Cohen's editorial in the slightest.

[Bill Bored]

4. I think it's called a hook.

It's the only way to get people to read threads on this forum that aren't about exit polls.

Besides, Cohen does describe some pretty serious e-voting failures, doesn't he? Every system tested failed in a public venue with millions of dollars of business and millions of votes at stake. How else would you characterize that?

[Dr.Phool]

7. Here's a letter from Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite on E-voting.

This woman will say anything. My friend Suzan sent her an e-mail about all the problems with the machines. This is her reply. Her head is completely up her ass. She is wrong on every count.

Oh, I forgot to mention, this is a Florida congresswoman.



Dear S.:

Congressman Rush Holt (D-NJ) introduced H.R. 550, a bill that would mandate all voting systems incorporate a paper trail into their systems. This bill was referred to the House Administration Committee. Some "experts" have alleged that touch screen methods are easily corruptible and could jeopardize the results of elections.

Preserving the fairness and integrity of public elections is essential to the preservation of our democracy. For this reason, the State of Florida has invested millions in new voting technology that is both compliant with the "Help America Vote Act" and passes one of the nation's strictest certification processes.

Several Florida counties have decided to invest in touch screen technologies. This technology has become increasingly popular, as it has proven constancy in providing accurate and secure elections. All machines are certified by an independent testing authority- independent of any manufacturer, state authority, or county official. The voting systems are subjected to numerous tests designed to discover any flaws or design errors. The voting system is then publicly tested to insure that it is properly programmed, the election is properly defined, and all systems were working properly.

Touchscreen systems are designed to capture the voter's choices by touching the screen. The choice is not finalized until the voter is satisfied with his selection and verifies the vote. One of the reasons that counties selected touch screen voting systems was the elimination of paper and the accuracy of recording votes. Each machine is capable of producing a permanent paper record with a manual audit capacity, as required by federal mandate.

H.R. 550 would require all machines to print a paper receipt for each vote. Retro-fitting every touchscreen booth with a printer would cost approximately $500 to $1000 per machine. As we evaluate the best means of ensuring a secure election, it is important to remember that the hand counting of paper ballots, or in this case receipts, is not as accurate as ballots counted electronically. Counting teams are human, susceptible to fatigue, distraction, and error.

A primary reason behind the touch screen technology's success is that each machine is an independent entity. There is no network to connect to, and therefore it is virtually hacker proof.

I am confident that the reforms adopted by the State of Florida have properly addressed the issues and controversy that emerged during the 2000 election. Our state has implemented some of the strictest standards for voting equipment in the nation. Many of the vendors whose machines are susceptible to fraud, that have been reported on by the media, failed our stringent inspection process.

America is seen by the world as the example of representative democracy. It is essential that our elections are as open, honest, and accurate as possible. I appreciate your input and will keep your views in mind should Congress debate this important matter.

Sincerely,

Ginny Brown-Waite
Member of Congress

[nxylas]

12. This bit made me laugh

"America is seen by the world as the example of representative democracy." Yeah, the example with a big red X across its picture.

[TrogL]

9. It's time for open source voting software

[npincus]

10. my ATM transactions never "flip"....

I'd like those withdrawals to flip to deposits....

[Higans]

17. Diebold ATM Machines print out paper recipts.

[Beetwasher]

11. As Long As Spitzer Is Gov. And Cuomo Is AG

I'm not worried about our voting in NY. They will NEVER allow these bullshit machines.

[Bill Bored]

14. Don't be so sure.

Spitzer has been one of the proponents of moving faster on this. He is clueless but the State Board of Elections and some in the Legislature have been doing a reasonable job of NOT allowing or certifying this junk.

You can thank Keith Wright, the Assembly Election Law Chair for not driving us off a cliff and there have even been some Republicans who have been resisting that urge as well.

Doug Kellner, now the Dem State BoE Co-Chair, has been a stickler for full compliance with laws and standards and was instrumental in the drafting of certain laws and certainly regulations. This is one reason why the machines don't meet the standards here. He has insisted on a very open process too.

In short, it was the Dem "minority" (called that because they didn't have the Gov's office and only had one house of the legislature), who have been protecting the franchise for the last 4 years along with a few fiscally conservative Repubs who are also sensitive to the possibility of computer fraud.

But I won't give Spitzer any credit until I see him actually take a stand and do something.

[Beetwasher]

16. Fair Enough!

"But I won't give Spitzer any credit until I see him actually take a stand and do something."

Agreed. I will give him the benefit of the doubt though. He's a pretty stand up guy in my book and I can't imagine him doing the wrong thing in this situation, but I understand what you're saying. And mega-kudos to Doug Kellner!

[philb]

26. New York had very problematic election in 2004, and pretty much in 2006 also

2004
www.flcv.com/NewYork.html

2006
www.flcv.com/eirstss6.html
www.flcv.com/eirsppp6.html
www.flcv.com/eirsoth6.html
www.flcv.com/eirsdt6.html

The RNC funded Robo-Calls and other dirty tricks in several New York Congressional campaigns in 2006.
Is the NY Attny Gen. going after them??

see the DT file

[Time for change]

13. Thanks for this article Bill

Do you happen to know if the vote flipping tended to favor one candidate over another or in what races it occurred?

One reason I ask is that there were two House races in New York where the Dem candidate lost big pre-election poll leads and the race on Election Day.

[Bill Bored]

15. No vote flipping possible here.

We don't have any e-voting to speak of. The lever machines only "flip" votes when (bi-partisan) poll workers misread the totals on election night. This is corrected a week or 2 after the election when all the totals are double checked by bi-partisan teams. So there could have been some election night totals at the precincts that were in error but we don't certify anything at that time.

Which races are you referring to and what were the final results?

The Dem, Gillibrand beat Sweeney by 6% so you'd have to include that in your analysis. Arcuri (D) won by 9%. Both these races switched from Rep to Dem.

Peter King held on to his seat though, unfortunately, but he's in an historically red district, although it's turning bluer by the day.

[Time for change]

20. I was referring to NY 25 and NY 29

[ClintonTyree]

18. Our old lever voting machines have worked well for decades....

with a minimum of problems. I'm elated that New York's election commission hasn't bowed to Washington's insane HAVA dictates and is waiting for a reliable voting machine with a paper trail.

I LOVE NY! :toast:

[In Truth We Trust]

19. K&R Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW!

[Higans]

22. "vote flipping"..it sounds like these machines are flip floppers...

[Maxdee55]

23. NY Votng Machnes

Personally I believe the old lever machines work just fine, and rather than go with optical scan or touch screen voting machines they should build new machines of the lever type. They are reliable, accurate, and trustworthy and I feel confident my vote is counted accurately when I vote on these machines.

[dlaliberte]

25. With no hard record of each vote, there is no verification.

I used the old lever voting machines years ago, and I recall wondering at the time how I could trust that my vote was counted correctly. They produced no record of my vote that I could verify. There would be no way to recount the ballots if need be, so we cannot trust these mechanical voting machines any more than the electronic voting machines.

I vote for paper ballots only. Optical scan ballots are OK if there is sufficient auditing at every precinct (e.g. 2% of ballots at 100% of the precincts are randomly chosen to be recounted and compared with the total).