NYT: Changes Are Expected in Voting by 2008 Election: Paperless voting machines will be obsolete

[DeepModem Mom]

Changes Are Expected in Voting by 2008 Election
By IAN URBINA and CHRISTOPHER DREW
Published: December 8, 2006

By the 2008 presidential election, voters around the country are likely to see sweeping changes in how they cast their ballots and how those ballots are counted, including an end to the use of most electronic voting machines without a paper trail, federal voting officials and legislators say.

New federal guidelines, along with legislation given a strong chance to pass in Congress next year, will probably combine to make the paperless voting machines obsolete, the officials say. States and counties that bought the machines will have to modify them to hook up printers, at federal expense, while others are planning to scrap the machines and buy new ones.

Motivated in part by voting problems during the midterm elections last month, the changes are a result of a growing skepticism among local and state election officials, federal legislators and the scientific community about the reliability and security of the paperless touch-screen machines used by about 30 percent of American voters.

The changes also mean that the various forms of vote-counting software used around the country — most of which are protected by their manufacturers for reasons of trade secrecy — will for the first time be inspected by federal authorities, and the code could be made public. There will also be greater federal oversight on how new machines are tested before they arrive at polling stations.

“In the next two years I think we’ll see the kinds of sweeping changes that people expected to see right after the 2000 election,” said Doug Chapin, director of electionline.org, a nonpartisan election group. “The difference now is that we have moved from politics down to policies.”...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/08/washington/08voting.html?hp&ex=1165640400&en=f4eb13c368fcd66d&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Jim Sagle]

1. C'mon people - K&R this thread!

[DeepModem Mom]

2. It's hard to believe we've come this far! nt

[silverojo]

6. I've K&R'ed #11!

Won't the Repukes freakin' DIE when they can't Diebold elections anymore? ROTFLMFAO!!

[Raster]

3. Four! One more for the GREATEST! This is damn good news!!!

:kick:FOUR!

[aquart]

4. Still pretending these things can be truthful?

This is exactly like the pretense that the war was a good idea, it was the execution that sucked.

Nuh uh. Bad idea from inception.

[tblue]

45. I've got TWO WORDS to add to this discussion; VOTER PURGE!!!

VOTER PURGE VOTER PURGE VOTER PURGE VOTER PURGE VOTER PURGE.

If we can't resolve that BS, where suspected Democratic voters are surrepticiously and needlessly yanked from the voter rolls, it won't matter what the device we attempt to vote on is.

[Febble]

51. Well, it will,

but you are absolutely right. Insecure voting systems are only one way in which the wrong candidate can be elected. There are plenty of others, and voter suppression is a huge one.

[suziedemocrat]

5. Great News!!!! Maybe now we've got a shot a winning back the Executive Branch!

did you see this paragraph?

They say that fixing the voting system is viewed as a core issue by the new Democratic leaders, and the bill already has the bipartisan support of more than a majority of the current House. Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, who will be the new chairwoman of the Senate Rules and Administration Committee, said she planned to introduce a similar bill in January.

[datavg]

24. Democrats...

...have to have a candidate who is capable of winning at least five southern states.

Clark could do it. Bayh might do it, under the right conditions. Warner could have done it.

Gore had his chance and blew it. Hillary will never do it, but Richardson might.

[suziedemocrat]

41. I like Bayh. He is too conservative and beholden to large banking types

but I still like him. If Barbara Boxer decides not to run I think I'll root for him, especially since I am a Hoosier.

[tblue]

44. They only have to win one more than Gore or Kerry, or something like that

Apologies for being too tired/lazy on a rainy Friday night to search for precise numbers, but I think we only need to pick up one more state to win.

[w4rma]

7. Paper *ballots* are what is needed! Paper trails simply will create a new boondoggle.

Paper trails will keep lawyers busy in the elections buisness for a long time. Paper ballots, however, have hundreds of years of law behind them.

Requiring paper ballots also fixes many other problems that paper trails will create. Such as a potential loss of anonyminity from being able to determine how someone voted by counting votes backward on the paper from a printer. And what about which has precidence when there are problems? The votes on the harddrive or the paper "trail"?

And when does anyone get to look at the "trail"? It's never counted or even looked at unless there is something outstanding.

The ballots themselves, must be paper. Then all the above problems take care of themselves.

[gracie76]

13. Paper "Ballots" ...what is needed

Yes, I agree...a paper "trail" is just another possibility for trouble, and not necessary. Let's just use plain old paper ballots, BUT...let's count them AT THE POLLING PLACE, before taking them to any central counting facility. That would provide a double check automatically. The people at the polling places would do the first count of the ballots...actually counting the numbers of votes for each candidate and ballot proposition/bond issue/school board election...etc. etc.
On the other hand, maybe we should go to all mail-in, as in Oregon. I imagine that would save a lot of money...I'm checking on that right now, but all the invoices aren't in for the cost of running the election here in Sacramento county.

[Stevepol]

8. The big problem is this: when it's just a paper trail,

the voter-verified paper is on a scroll that remains inside the machine and can obviously be added to or otherwise changed without being seen. This is true on the ES&S ivotronics and every other touchscreen I would imagine.

If the touchscreens produce a paper record it should be a paper ballot print-out that is removed from the machine and saved in a box to be used in audits and recounts.

Obviously the best machine to use, if one is used, would be an optiscan where the votes are always separate from the machine itself and the machine is just a scanning device to speed up the counting.

But it would be better not to have a machine involved at all but just use a paper ballot hand counted.

[IndyOp]

20. Paper ballots are optimal. IF we have to have printers retrofit to DREs

then the printers should print one ballot card at a time -- not on a roll. The voter then picks up the card, inspects it, and carries it to the ballot box. The printers could be standard laser printers that print ballots on half sheets of thick paper.

Don't get me wrong - I am AGAINST ALL DREs. Casting a vote should not depend on functioning machines because DRE machine failures result in voter disenfranchisement.

For any/all jurisdictions that cannot/will not switch from DREs to paper ballots, then they must retrofit their DREs with ballot printers AND have enough paper ballots on hand at EVERY PRECINCT so that if the DREs aren't working, voters can cast their vote on the paper ballots.

:kick:

[drm604]

9. K&R

:kick:

[Marnieworld]

10. Remember when we were called "Moonbats"and "Sore Losers"

It is sooooo nice to be vindicated. It keeps happening too. It's like reality is becoming trendy again. :D

[nxylas]

11. And remember

Reality has a known liberal bias :D

[LiberalFighter]

12. Paper is perishable?

In Harris County, Tex., which includes Houston, electronic machines can print a paper tally, but do not give voters a paper record, meaning they would not comply with Mr. Holt’s bill. Beverly Kaufman, the county clerk, said she and other election officials elsewhere disliked the paper requirement.

“Every time you introduce something perishable like paper, you inject some uncertainty into the system,” Ms. Kaufman said. She said she was skeptical that Congress would come up with enough money for replacements by 2008. “You show me where you can pry the cold, bony fingers off the money in Washington, D.C., that fast,” she said.

THIS WOMAN NEEDS TO BE DEBUNKED AND RIDICULED

I want to know what her definition of paper as being perishable!! Gee how old is the paper that the Consitution was written on?

I want to know how electronic machines are less perishable than paper!! Sure paper can burn but how long does it require to burn a stack of ballots or paper trails? How long does it take to wipe out the data on a cartridge with a magnet or alter the data with an illegal connection via a computer?

[sonias]

23. Kaufman is a nut case

I'm not from Harris but I am from Texas and plenty of our Houston activists say so. The issue in Harris and any part of Texas where Hart Intercivic eSlate is used, is that their VVPAT system uses thermal paper rolls. You might as well print the ballot on disappearing ink if you're going to use thermal paper in Texas. High humidity destroys the ink.

Another flaw in the eSlate VVPAT system is the "toilet paper" contiguous roll of printer paper. Piss poor design for privacy. In small precincts any poll worker could know how you voted if they knew what machine you used.

A better system of printers and for handling the ballots, would at least have you tear off your ballot and place it in a ballot box to get mixed with other printed ballots. And don't get people excited about how they shouldn't be allowed to handle their ballots. Hell we did this for centuries without mishandling them, so what's the concern now? The ballot of record should be the printed ballot and that ballot should be secured with all the security that is deemed necessary. And once again we did this a mere 6 years ago with very few problems. But all of a sudden these whiners can't deal with paper.

Sonia

[Joe Chi Minh]

27. Don't the banks keep your ATM receipts on a concealed roll?

I don't imagine any of you would believe you had the right to check it, would you? Bah! More flaky tin-foli progressives...!

[w4rma]

31. Sarcasm or naivety? I can't tell. (nt)

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. Very, very heavy sarcasm.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Electronic voting should not be mandatory for all voting locations

If the turnouts for a voting location is generally low than it should allow the use of paper ballots. (Like the town that votes before the rest of the United States. They have a population of about 20-30?)

[Beetwasher]

15. HALLELULAH!!!!!!!

n/t

[deepthought42]

16. voted this year in MD...

And while the electronic machines were easy to figure out (once they got them working...SIGH), I was very uneasy about the no-paper trail thing. Honestly, I work in an office, and we have to make paper copies of almost EVERYTHING! But hard copies of the peoples' votes? I guess that's not important... :rant:

[LiberalFighter]

17. Disabled?

Advocates for the disabled say they will resist his bill, because the touch-screen machines are the easiest for blind people to use.

How to vote should not be based on what is easiest for a group of people. It should be decided on what is best for conducting an election that is honest. Having assistants aiding the blind as in the past should good enough. There should be no complaints about not being able to vote in private. In this state the disabled can request a traveling board to come to their home so they can vote. It consists of 1 person from both parties on each of those traveling boards.

Privacy was not a right back in the old days. And should not be an absolute right. It should be a right whenever possible and feasible. Maybe sometime in the future there will be an easier way for blind to vote on machines. Maybe they get on their computer and make their selection on a program that is then upload it to a memory device. On election day make the trip to the polling place and slip it into the machine and download their votes then wait until they hear a verbal code (that only they know what it should be... they can even create their own) signifying it was completed.

Why complain when the voting can go to them? So what if 2 people on a traveling board know how you voted!


Brief Illustrated History of Voting
The conduct of elections has changed in many ways over the past 200 years. The extent of these changes is nicely illustrated by a comparison of today's voting practices with those illustrated in George Caleb Bingham's painting, The County Election (Figure 1). In addition to being a noteworthy artist, Bingham was a successful politician; this painting shows a polling place on the steps of the courthouse in Saline County, Missouri, in 1846.

In this painting, we see the judge (top center) administering an oath to a voter. The voter (in red) is swearing, with his hand on the bible, that he is entitled to vote and has not already done so. There was no system of voter registration, so this oath and the possibility that the judge or someone else in the vicinity of the polls might recognize him if he came back was all that prevented a voter from voting again and again.

There was no right to a secret ballot; having been sworn in, the voter simply called out his choices to the election clerks who sit on the porch behind the judge tallying the vote. Each clerk has a pollbook in which he writes the voter's name and records his votes; multiple pollbooks were a common defense against clerical error. There are several people in the painting holding paper tickets in their hands. We know that these were not paper ballots because Missouri continued to use voice voting until 1863. In a general election, however, many voters might have wanted to bring their own notes to the polling place.

[NMDemDist2]

19. the disabled can use a touch screen ballot marker aka a $5000 pencil

still uses a ballot, the touch screen is just used to mark said ballot

like an AutoMark (not that I'm praising ES&S but it's a start for the disabled without giving up a paper ballot)

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/products/automark.html

[Sapere aude]

21. So keep some touch screen machines for blind people around. There will be oodles of them left over.

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. How selfish and short-sighted can you get!

[LiberalFighter]

30. Let's see...

I have been hearing-impaired since birth. No ear canals. 69-72decible loss in both ears.
Can't wear hearing-aids that most others wear. Mine is a bone-conduction type that requires a band over the head to keep it in place and apply sufficient pressure against the bone to work properly. The design is at least 10 years old and is limited production because manufacturers don't consider it a money maker. I am on my 3rd hearing-aid with the same brand and model as the first two only because the hearing specialist has been around.

Can't use most phones normally because they aren't loud enough. I had to buy phones that were 45decibles louder than regular phones. Can't lug that phone around and plug it in whenever I need it.

Pay phones generally have volume control now. But they are disappearing because of the use of cell phones.

Business and govt phones don't generally have volume control in the handset. When I need to make a call related at the business or govt then I need to use them as a go between.

Last time I was in a motel/hotel room they didn't have volume control.

Haven't been able to find a cell phone that is compatible with my hearing-aid yet either.

I can't do jury duty because of the acoustics in court rooms.

[Joe Chi Minh]

33. No-one is saying that you and many other people afflicted by severe

disabilities are not deserving of the most sincere sympathy.

What I was pointing out was that, if your needs as disabled people are prioritised, even though it may mean the disenfranchisement fo the large majority through Republican fraud ensuing from the use of machines, it will be to detriment of the whole nation.

What is more, any hope that you ever entertained of receiving virtually the best medical treatment available, free at source, will be vain.

I hope you see what I'm driving at. I certainly see why you posted, and wish you every happiness, not least, of course, because you receive proper treatment for your hearing. As a citizen of such a rich country, you and countless other great citizens, currently being treated like offal, deserve more than a few scraps from the rich man's table.

[meldroc]

38. The ideal solution for the disabled would be a non-DRE touch-screen ballot marking machine.

Most people should be using optical-scan paper ballots. For those who can't use paper ballots we use touch-screen machines, but different from Diebold TSx machines and other current DRE voting machines.

The machine would work more or less like the touch-screen machines we know and hate, and would include all sorts of accessability devices so as many people with disabilities can use the machine to generate a ballot.

Unlike the present touch-screen machines, which are DRE, meaning they directly record your votes onto internal memory or memory cards, this machine would print out an optical scan paper ballot, identical to the manually filled ballots used by voters without disabilities.

[Nightjock]

18. YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!

Thanks for the GREAT NEWS!
Free and fair elections! The fascists reign is almost over!

[Apollo11]

22. Let's Keep Up The Pressure!

The cost issue will keep coming back and we have to insist a fair election is worth every cent!

Maybe we should reclaim our money back from the machine manufacturers who made millions selling expensive machines that don't do the job they are sold for (i.e. holding fair elections where every vote gets counted).

Like it says in the article:
“Everyone was getting intense pressure to comply by January 2006, and so they went ahead and bought,” said Alysoun McLaughlin, who was a lobbyist for the National Association of Counties at the time.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the main motive of the Bu$h Administration in promoting HAVA was to make money for their friends who own the vote-machine companies - especially Diebold / ES&S (2 brothers-in-crime).

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

25. standards allow for paperless verification

the standards NIST recommended were for Software Independent,
which includes paper, but also would include
end to end systems (encryption) and independent verification
systems like VoteHERE.

Remember, shills like Glenn Newkirk serve
at "technical advisors" to the EAC.

Unless paperless voting is outlawed, its still on the table,
and we must remain vigilent.

[bvar22]

26. Paper Ballots a good first step.

*The ballots need to be publicly counted AT THE PRECINCT. No transporting ballot boxes for counting later at another location.

*The results posted on the Precinct door and compared ON THE SPOT with tallies of number of voters and exit polls at the precinct.

*Mail In and Absentee Voting is worse than DRE.

[hunter]

29. "Toilet paper" ballots are scratchy.

Opposition to this technology is increasing simply as a matter of practicality.

In California I saw a lot more people this election dropping off their absentee ballots at Polling Places, bypassing the slow, irritating, touchscreen-toilet-paper-machines entirely.

If we are vigilant and straightforward we can kill these machines. When you get right down to the basics, people like a ballot they can hold in their hands.

[Stardust]

32. Early Xmas present!!!! THE single most important issue of our lifetime!!!!

[peabody71]

35. As the founder of PollWatch.org a huge Whaooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

It's been a long time comming and I have to say it was the DU and the other liberal blogs that made this happen.
Democracy works because of you!!!!!

[ponthedge]

36. Did I read that right....

Open sourcing the code base? "and the code could be made public" This would be the single greatest victory for the entire concept. If we can open source the code and get a bunch of peers making sure that it is clean, then I may not be so reluctant to use one.

Uhmm...I nominate Linus torvalds....Linus, are you listening? Perhaps, you could lend your hand in aiding the agency that would oversee the public voting machine code-base?

As for the printers, I am not so sure...first thing, we are going to pay for it "at federal expense". And without proper oversight and implementation, we end up with 'toilet paper printers' tied to crap stands...and have to fix it again for 2012.

Throw out the DRE's and let me make my mark. I don't care if it takes a week to count the ballots. I would rather pay for a person counting votes than those piece of crap printers tied to the already proven PIECE of CRAP DRE's.

[brooklynite]

37. We're Number One !

Yes America, we of the great State of New York, the home of the nation's most dysfunctional legislature, managed to drag out the issue of new voting technology so long (the only state to miss the HAVA deadline and get sued by the Justice Dept) that we've managed to miss the electronic voting craze complete. By the time we actually do get our act together, paper-trail based voting will be all but assured.

[byronius]

39. I have a dream. n/t

[MessiahRp]

40. About. Fucking. Time. K&R!

Rp

[annabanana]

42. See, Andy? We're doing it!

Thank you for never, ever, ever giving up.

[FighttheFuture]

43. Paper trails are garbage!

Paper trails are not counted and are a placebo, at best. Remember, it's what is counted that counts!

What is needed is junk the machines, and go to paper ballots. Hand count, machine verify afterward. The initial count is by hand. If you are worried about doing it, add more voting locations to distribute the load. the counting should be open to observation, and broadcast on the net for anyone to see it done. The results should be certified locally, issued locally and then rolled up for state certification.

Really, its the best way to be sure.

[mzmolly]

46. Wow!

Awesome!

[buddysmellgood]

47. I'll believe it when I see it. This has taken too long. I bet Diebold gets to build the new machines

[Hekate]

48. Two words: Democratic Congress. Keep hope alive -- we've come a LONG way...

...from when we were accused of wearing :tinfoilhat:

Andy, DU's patron saint of clean elections, must be rejoicing, wherever he is. A DU :toast: to him.

Hekate

[buddysmellgood]

49. Amen to that. Wouldn't it be cool if we got access to the machines and code and

could show the world the proof...hope indeed.

[Hubert Flottz]

50. Too late Ethyl we've already been streaked and stripped by Bush

Naked Hostility and Childlike Smirks, are all we've gotten in return for our votes since 2000.

G0P * ...Press here, to vote for grief and despair, death, global warming, nuclear winters, pestilence, perverts, The Bush "Family "Values"" and General BusHit...vote GOP

DEM * ...Press here, to vote for O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8) O8)

[In Truth We Trust]

52. HAND COUNTED paper ballots YES! Sourcecode anywhere-NO!

[index555]

53. i'm sorry but I'm a centrist

WAAH!!!
:wtf: