SO COUNT THE FRICKIN' LA BALLOTS ALREADY!

[Bill Bored]

First of all, I would be remiss in not pointing out that this fiasco in
Los Angeles in the so called "low risk" State of California could NEVER
HAVE HAPPENED in "HIGH-RISK" New York, with our 40+ year-old mechanical
lever voting machines, because no one in the Empire State is FUCKING
STUPID ENOUGH to use a voting system in which the SAME VOTES can be
counted for DIFFERENT CANDIDATES!

I'll say that again: SAME VOTES COUNTED FOR DIFFERENT CANDIDATES!

That's NOT a LOW RISK VOTING SYSTEM and since this is the largest county
in California, I don't consider California to be a low risk State. In
fact, it's exactly like Ohio 2004, but without the ballot order rotation
they used there that cost John Kerry thousands of votes in Cuyahoga County
alone.

See this thread for more discussion of "high-risk" vs. "low-risk" States:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=496591&mesg_id=496591

That said, here's a nice article about a LA County Supervisor that says
they probably can sort out the Clinton and Obama votes cast by independent
voters after all:


http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8246059

However, the Democratic ballot included eight choices and the American Independent
only three, meaning they did not overlap for slots 11 through 15 - notably
including the slots for Democrats Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama.

Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky pointed out that even if a ballot did not note
which party the voter meant to select, if voters marked between slots 11
and 15, their choices were clear.

"Of those that don't fall into that Never-Never Land, why wouldn't we be
able to identify at least those ... and count the ones that are countable?
It may be a pain in the butt to do it, and it may be costly, but it seems
to me that it's doable," Yaroslavsky said. "To say out of the box that
we're not even going to try, that angers people. It angers me, and I'm not
one of the aggrieved voters."

Hey any chance this Yaroslavky guy is from NY?
We like to count our votes here too!

[computermodem]

1. If this were a real problem, Obama would have spoken already

I'd like to hear an expert talking about the veracity of the disenfranchisement claims.

[Bill Bored]

2. Yes, just what we need: More self-appointed EXPERTS!

Give me a break. It's already taken what...a week...for people to figure this shit out.

The fact is there were thousands of uncounted votes. And if that results in one Dem delegate being miscounted, it could make a difference in who gets the nomination, and possibly the White House.

If CA were a winner-take-all State, I could understand not wanting to count the ballots because it couldn't change the outcome. But it's not. And aside from the moral obligation to count every vote that's countable, I think the possibility of a miscounted delegate is reason enough to try to get this right.

Note: this is the first time I've heard that it's even possible to do so, so this is why I'm skeptical about the so-called experts. (I should say I know a fair number of them, and most didn't have a clue about this crap until now.)

Welcome to DU by the way!

[Peace Patriot]

3. 2 posts and you're already dissing the REAL election system experts--the activists!

Boy, are you clueless!

Welcome to DU, and I hope you learn something about our nation's voting system!

The woman who set this fiasco up--the most corrupt Diebold shill of all the corrupt county election officials in California--Conny McCormack, head of Los Angeles elections, who resigned in Dec 07--once said the following about computer EXPERT Kim Alexander (who runs the superb election integrity website, the California Voter Foundation, and often advocates in our interest in Sacramento)--in the L.A. publication "L.A. City Beat":

CityBeat: How do you respond to the charge by Kim Alexander of the California Voter Foundation that you put 40,000 votes at risk by asking Diebold to alter the software on the eve of the recall election?

Conny McCormack: That woman has absolutely no credentials in elections. It's almost laughable. She says I put 40,000 votes at risk. I would never do that. I wouldn't have a job if I did that. (my emphasis)

http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?IssueNum=51&id=942

That woman. She called her "that woman"! No creds are good enough for people in Diebold/ES&S's pocket, who have adopted the "culture of secrecy" from the corporate world as their own--and as the way to run our elections. And, in any case, our elections shouldn't be run in such a way that they require experts to understand what the hell they're doing! How difficult is it to count all the votes in public view? It's not difficult at all! It's been done for hundreds of years by ordinary citizens.

This snobbish bullshit about "experts" when it comes to elections is just one more way of excluding the citizens and voters and fostering a putrid atmosphere of secrecy in which election fraud can easily take place.

Experts schmexperts! Count the goddamned votes!

[Melissa G]

5. 'Experts schmexperts! Count the ###damned votes! '

Yes please, just count the effing votes!!!
Good to hear they have found a possible way to sort it out.

[diva77]

6. Actually, Conny didn't resign, she "retired" -- that way she gets to have all

the bennies even 'tho her retirement was strongly urged due to a very unflattering audit report (I cannot confirm details, but I heard this thru the grapevine)

[Peace Patriot]

10. Here's a Conny gem for you...if you haven't seen it...

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/ci_8153626?source=rss

Originally posted by SFexpat2000, in "Election Reform, Fraud and Related News. Sunday 02/03/08"
(Comments 2,16 and 7)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x496612

Conny McCormack, just before the Feb 5 primary, whining about SoS's Bowen's reforms.

And here's Steve Weir (and Deborah Seiler) complaining about having to handle ballots...
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_8157074?source=rss

Do you know what that SOB Weir said, back in August?

“This election, if it's a failure, it's on her.” (that is, SoS Bowen) --Steve Weir, president of the California Association of Clerks and Elections Officials and Contra Costa County's registrar of voters.
8/12/07
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20070812-9999-1n12bowen.html

Boy, do we need a purge of corrupt CA county election officials!

(I'm wondering if the indy "bubble" was deliberate--because all of the above bad actors seemed to be relishing the idea of a messed up election with slow returns--and, of course, they have to walk the tightrope of protecting corporate interests and their own careers (should planned mess-ups occur) vs. finding the way to blame a messed-up election on Bowen. The "bubble" puts Bowen in a tough spot, without directly implicating Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia election theft machines. It's Conny McCormack's fault--but who gets blamed in the corporate press, when such a big snafu occurs in a CA election? Just sayin. I think Conny's gang is very devious.)

[diva77]

11. Incorrigible!! Conny overseeing international elections with IFES job

:mad:

we need a purge of more than CA elections officials -apparently it's needed in IFES as well!!

[Wilms]

4. What happened is becoming clearer.

Perhaps the reason for the confusion as to what happened is that clarity would invoke a response requiring the county to actually do something...like count ballots and make sure there are no double-bubbled column sharing races in the future.

PS. LA County may be the nation's largest.

And for you, Bill:

Here's a picture of Zev looking like he just got off the 7 Train.

[Bill Bored]

7. You mean?

I was thinking more like:



Specifically:

[Wilms]

8. No. Main Street, Flushing. Gloria's Pizza.

[Bill Bored]

9. Hey, who gvae YOU all those hearts? I didn't get squat! nt