Beyond "conspiracy theories," Media Matters

[libertypirate]

http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200411120011

[Kellis]

1. this is a great article

<snip>
"Media Matters for America previously noted the failure of most television and cable news networks to report on the glitch in one suburban Ohio town's electronic voting system that resulted in 3,893 extra votes for President George W. Bush; the three media outlets cited above did cite that glitch as an incident that has fueled speculation about vote fraud, but each ignored the negative-25-million-vote episode and other irregularities."


This speaks to all the Americans who want this issue discussed!It is an outrage that the media is silent about it!

[Stahl]

2. Observation of coverage

After the election, maybe around 5th November, I started google keywords OP-SCAN FRAUD FLORIDA daily.

Until yesterday, results increased from first days 200 to yesterdays 560 something. Today I got somewhat less hits than yesterday, for the first time so it seems that "critical mass" has not yet been achieved.

I have no idea whether fraud occurred because all the evidence is substantial. And as foreigner, I didn't oppose Bush and even thought maybe he indeed could be the better candidate, but I think this possible fraud should get somewhat more media attention from the safeguards of democracy, the free press.

At least the results shouldn't be accepted outright because the exit polls were so wrong in some states. Maybe you should appeal more to the foreign press with evidence and statistics? I noticed that Pravda (= truth :) )for example quickly covered the fraud story and maybe even BBC will with enough pressure, they must be well aware of this already.

If you get enough attention abroad, your domestic news agencies will be unable to ignore you and public will force the politicians to investigate any errors in the election, just to keep people like in DU quiet.

I don't think its useful to lose head, some of your news agencies will quickly use/have used that to discredit even valid issues you would address.

This board is relatively easy to get into by anyone with agenda to label you all as nutcases. So any revolutionary ramblings should quickly be erased by moderators for your own credibility. I also could bet that this board is one place that your intelligence agencies have heightened interests in; it would be if I was in the head of your CIA.

Sorry for my lacking english, it is not my first language.

[newyawker99]

3. Hi Stahl!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BeFree]

4. Thanks for the advice, Stahl

But no thanks, we don't need your advice like not being revolutionary. Revolutionaries founded this country, and we aren't ashamed of them or their 'revolutionary ramblings'.

Don't know where you live, Stahl, but you can pretty much, as can we all, trace our rights right back to those revolutionaries and their ramblings.

Like I say, thanks, but NO thanks.

[Stahl]

5. Revolutionaries

"we don't need your advice like not being revolutionary."

By "we", I assume you mean "I".

"Revolutionaries founded this country, and we aren't ashamed of them or their 'revolutionary ramblings'."

The way I see it, first: while fraud certainly is a possibility, it is also possible that Bush won fair and square. In this case you would not be fighting for democracy like your founding fathers.

Second: I believe the end result (exposing possible widescale fraud) is more important than the way you achieve it. As said, hot headed radicalism only undermines the attention you might be receiving from anyone who otherwise might be inclined listening to sense.

There certainly is difference of how your domestic news agencies have handled these news (ridicule and dissmiss) and how it has been received abroad (more neutral). This is why I recommended you to focus more attention to them as well.

[GingerSnaps]

6. It's probably not your second language either

Why should we be afraid to speak the truth?

We want the truth because our rights were violated and do you think that we should shove everything under the rug and go on with our life's like nothing has happened?

[Stahl]

7. A question

"do you think that we should shove everything under the rug and go on with our life's like nothing has happened?"

I don't want that to happen either. I was merely trying to suggest a strategy that in my mindset is the most effective and I could very well be wrong.

Consider yourself as an average american, who would you believe if you didn't know the facts about this election: aggressive radical shouting about stolen elections, or sensible sounding news anchor from Fox?

[GingerSnaps]

12. I apologize

I thought that you were saying that we should go on with our life's like nothing has happened.

Sorry :hug:

I don't think that we should have a step by step diagram laid out either.

[bobbieinok]

8. that wasn't what Stahl said

Stahl said essentially, be careful....the govt is probably carefully watching...

...and also, as others have also said, be careful in how we express ourselves, because....

--we don't want 'the enemy' to know all our plans and, for example, destroy the records like they were preparing to do in FL before Bev and her crew arrived

--and, as has happened a few times, because extreme posts WILL be used against us to neutralize and ignore whatever we may find

[Stahl]

9. Yes, that's about it

"be careful in how we express ourselves, because"

Well, those and because registration is easy, it would be easy for anyone with agenda to discredit you to sign in and write aggressive "burn the white house and kill the government!" -posts.

These posts could handily be used by some of your more conservative news agencies to accociate them with even plausible evidence about fraud. Removing the tin-foil hat now.

[colonel odis]

10. of course, the govt's watching. bev harris and others are being allowed

to find these things.

do you seriously believe cheney, rove, and the like will let anyone find the real evidenced that they swung the election.

if there was any lesson to be learnd from watergate, it's that nixon should have burned those tapes long before they became an issue. same here. any hard evidence has long been buried.

and if the black box voting people don't quit poking their nose where they shouldn't, they're all going to wind up either "committing suicide" (a favorite bush family tactic) or, speaking of nixon, having a martha mitchell-type plane crash.

though the bush administration isn't smart (iraq), they're sly. they're devious and cover their tracks well. imho, there's no way anyone searching for evidence of voting irregularities will get anything that stands up and will come back on bush.

[Stahl]

11. Don't despair

"there's no way anyone searching for evidence of voting irregularities will get anything that stands up and will come back on bush."

To err is human and I believe if fraud has occurred (not neccessarily that it has), things are really different now than before because of internet, bloggers and because it would have to be so widescale operation where so many things could go wrong. You could perhaps do that kind of thing in South-America with relative ease, but not within your own country.

With black box -machines, however, it would be impossible to prove that fraud hasn´t occured either, which is equally bad thing because the rumours will never stop and people will keep looking to the unforeseeable future.

[tll]

13. Thank you

I just received an email in response to a write-yer-congressman-etc. one I sent... it said:

"Somehow I imagine that if Kerry won the election, people'd be emailing the same thing, only from Republican underground forums. Whats the scoop on this fraud, and why hasn't it been mentioned anywhere else ohther than the internet?
Im skeptical ...."

This article sums it up more easily than the umpteen links I was about to send my friend..