What are Nader's and Cobb's Motivations and Intentions?

[sabra]

I am still trying to figure out what the motivations are for the two recounts? Obviously there is no chance for the numbers to drastically change, that they would change both Nader's or Cobb's standings in NH and Ohio, then what are their intentions?

- Do they want to help Kerry?
- Is this a vendetta against Bush?
- To expose major issues in our voting and election process?
- All of the above

In addition, I haven't seen that much media exposure nor uproar from the GOP in regards to the two recounts? Kind of curious about that too...

[unpossibles]

1. I think they are what they seem

Nader has been a champion for consumer rights for decades. Cobb is represnting a party that begs for freedom and self-responsiblity.

This is an issue of consumer (voter) rights in the most obvious way. This is also potentially an issue of big government corruption.

I'm just glad they are. hell, that someone is at least doing it. Perhaps the real reaosn Nader ran? So he gets to call for a recount when Bullsh tries to steal the show.

[lynintenn]

5. Nader stated

because the dems didn't have the backbone to call for a recount he hoped it would drive votes to consider a third party candidate

[newyawker99]

10. Hi unpossibles!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Eloriel]

22. THEY WANT TO SAVE DEMOCRACY

WHY is this even a question, Sabra?

Here's Cobb's interview transcript with Democracy Now:

Transcript link: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/17/1525203

Read it.

Here's some other background for you (haven't I posted this in your threads before? Sure seems like it):

It was DUers who got this recount ball rolling -- IdaBriggs who discovered the NH anomlies and hedda_foil, co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project who with her colleagues on the ground in NH (and with a flurry of last-minute faxes to Nader from DUers at their request) got Nader to ask for the recount at the last possible minute -- literally one minute before the deadline.

They subsequently formed a new 527, Help America Recount, specifically for helping fund ALL the recounts they can (I hope all DUers who care about preserving our ability to vote and have it actually matter will contribute): www.helpamericarecount.org

Here are some links:

*****Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org
National Ballot Integrity Project http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843



It's the height of irony to me that the very people whom the Democrats worked like hell to keep off the ballots everywhere may end up being the ones who help save democracy, and with it the Democratic Party.

To keep up with news and developments, as well as activist actions and events, check out these threads:

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

ALSO SEE: VOTE FRAUD? What can we do? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2701028#

********SEND THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND MEDIA TOO *********
Best Fraud Summary I've seen!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x57214
Link: http://www.bopnews.com

[benburch]

2. All of the above.

And I think they expect some consideration of their points of view from the new Kerry administration as a reward... Politics works that way.

[jsascj]

3. Nader is first a consumer advocate

I am going to believe that those are his intention, until he shows otherwise.

Don't know 'nuttin' about Cobb

[Verve]

4. They want Democracy! Like all "level headed" Americans do.

If we don't have fair voting procedures we don't live in a Democracy! Also, the longer the GOP can hold out by not talking about this, the longer it can be called a conspiracy theory. When they start to talk about it is when we've started winning!

[sabra]

6. That's what I was thinking too...

They think if they just ignore it, it will just get to a level of a "nuisance" and nothing more... Hopefully that won't be the case!

[Spangle]

7. Only way a 3rd party can have a chance

is with clean election

Not to mention the free pr.

This is exactly why we need 3rd partys. They force the country to look at things, do things that the 2 partys are afraid to touch.

Right now, with them doing it.. it doesn't look like the democrats are trying to 'steal' the election. Which would be exactly what would be hyped.

When all is said in done, they and their party gets bragging rights for their efforst. Pointing out that the republicans and democrats stuck their heads in the sand.

Over all, they will get alot out of it.

[TWiley]

8. Nader only does things for Nader.

He needs to keep his name in the news to be worth anything at speaking engagements which is likely some portion of his income.

He did not get much media coverage, hardly any, before or during the election, so now he needs to stir up more shit somehow to get his mug in the press.

He caught flak about pretending to be a Democrat while being funded and sponsored on ballets by the conservative republicans. Now he is trying to find a way to shake that image and become everyones hero again.

Frankly, I hope he fails and then fades away into obscurity as I feel that he is nothing more than a cheap republican operative.

That is my opinion anyway

[Kralizec]

9. this thinking is flawed, imho

while he is an idealist, i also think he is a pragmatist. this label is easy to apply to anyone who has been an advocat for anything! Look, I'm not a Nader groupie or anything, but I think he gets an unfair wrap. In my opinion, what he really is, is someone who believes that the American politcal system is on the fast road toward implossion. This made people look at him like a freak. While I disagreed with him, I never called him a fool, but some did. Who's the fool now?

[TWiley]

17. Ralph had zero chance at winning the election

I think we all knew that, except for maybe ralph. Would it be pragmatic to pursue an unattainable office? Grandiose is more like it.

Ralph is incapable of being part of anything except the ralph show. If he wanted to change things, then why not roll up the sleeves and go to work in a party of choice? You will note that the Green party tossed him as their candidate as well.

Choose a topic ralph, go door to door to get signatures, lobby your congressman or senator to sponsor a bill, and create a coherent message which details the need for this change and a method to do it.

Maybe a genuine pragmatist would try this approach

[TWiley]

19. Well, there is one defination of "Pragmatic" that might fit.

<<< prag·mat·ic

<<< adj.
<<< Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical.

Nope, this does not describe ralph.

<<< Philosophy. Of or relating to pragmatism.
<<< Relating to or being the study of cause and effect in historical or political events with emphasis on
<<< the practical lessons to be learned from them.

Nope, ralph is not intrested in learning a practical lesson.

<<< Archaic.
<<< Active in an officious or meddlesome way.
<<< Dogmatic; dictatorial.

Close but no cigar.

<<< n. Archaic. A meddler; a busybody.

BINGO!!!!

[Guava Jelly]

11. honestly I believe Bush scares the shit out of them

even though they dislike the democratic candidate Bush is a religous fanatic And i think they would rather have a levelheaded dem then a rapturous republican.
Yes they think the polititions arent that much different but the part that is favors kerry...just my humble opinion

[Sammi]

12. Nadar's motivation for a recount is weird.

He's doing a recount in 11 counties to check anomalies about Bush's numbers?

This doesn't make sense since Kerry won New Hampshire.

[Guava Jelly]

13. He did it because the exit polls favored kerry by higher numbers

if the exit polls match the recount more then the original then there is precidence for recounting other states..
ps i am no naderite

[Sammi]

14. Re: Exit Polls - Election Night - City News - Boston states deceit.

About those exit polls - Boston papers reported that the polls were skewed. They called it deceit.

They said the only polls that made any sense were Rasmussen Report.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

21. Motivation for Ohio Recount

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=319

Note that Blackwell is crying the blues about the actual cost. He coulda saved the state all that money if they did it right the first time.

On the subject of Ohio voting - check out on CSPAN the focus group conducted by Hart a week after the elections (in The Road to the White House series - its on their website). The "thought processes" of some of these voters, who were an educated group overall, is pretty scary. One woman didn't vote for Kerry because of his joking remark in the debate about "marrying up". She "knows" that Kerry married Teresa for her money. And that he has no idea what its like to struggle economically - but Bush does. Hellooooo???? When did the son of a millionaire ever struggle???

[Jersey Devil]

18. Not weird at all - looking for skimming of Kerry votes where

it might be easy to find since the state uses all optical scan machines. If Bush cheated but did not cheat quite enough to win NH there may be very valuable evidence he can find. Exit polls showed Kerry up double digits in NH suggesting that something was amiss.

[Carolab]

15. Maybe PATRIOTISM????????

Perhaps they REALLY CARE about this country and DEMOCRACY.

It SHOCKS me that this wasn't even raised as a possibility.

ANYONE ELSE HERE CARE ABOUT DEMOCRACY???????????

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TODAY TO HELP PROVE THIS FRAUD OR GET THE WORD OUT??????

[PeterPan]

16. thank you for pointing out the obvious

why on earth would a green even run for president
its not about hoping hoping for political favors or payback
its about democracy and the future of this country

i will be a volunteer observer for the greens in the ohio recount and had a discussion with a green coordinator about the stated objective of the recount - they're not anticipating a change in the result they just want an accurate count and given the massive evidence that the current count is not accurate they are exercizing their right under ohio state law to demand a recount - seems like just the right neutral stance to take - i will provide updates

[JoMama49]

20. Watch Cobb on Democracy Now!

Hi,
I just watched Amy Goodman interview David Cobb on DEmocracy Now! You can watch or listen to a reply of the interview at www.democracynow.org. I think you will have your question answered when you hear the interview. Cobb seemed to me fairly credible in saying this is not a partisan issue -- he wants to see who really won Ohio.
JoMama.