Kerry only behind 68,000 in Ohio...

[FullCountNotRecount]

(136,000 divided by two) if tabulators were tampered with plus 155,000 provisionals and 92,000 undervotes and we can pull this out! That's less than 7 votes a precinct!

Not to be misleading, but the media NEVER says a switch of 68,000 votes would give Kerry the election. They always say Bush is ahead by 136,000. If the tabulators were screwy, it's a different ballgame.

[RoyGBiv]

1. ... sigh ...

No offense intended, but I'm getting a little annoyed with posts like this.

Behind by 68,000 where? What's the source for the statement? Is it based on tangible evidence? Etc ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. keep your eyes on BBV

we are truly having a behind the scenes strugle for power

[MelissaB]

13. What do you mean? (nt)

[RoyGBiv]

20. I understand that ...

I still don't understand where these numbers come from.

[Mandate_My_Ass]

2. divided by two?

Why are you dividing the deficit of 136,000 by two? What am I missing?

[bleever]

6. A switch of 68,000 votes from one candidate to the other makes

a net difference of 136,000 votes.

[Zensea]

8. this

just as example.
One person has 200,000 votes. the other has 336,000 votes. They lost by 136,000 votes. If 68,000 votes switched then it would be a tie 268,000 to 268,000.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Kerry just said in an interview

that he lost by only 60,000 votes. He didn't say OH specifically, but that does seem to be what he was referring to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. He also said the count was not over

We are seeing a clash behind the scenes, trust me om this one

IF Kerry (and teh rest ) fid the evidience to take to the bank, they will go public (bev may have stumbled onto some of it today at Velusia county, btw)... if they don't, just like Nixon in 1960 it will die

[whalerider55]

12. nadia

behind what scenes? precincts? boards of elections? secretary of state? the DNC? Kerry campaign central?

i'd love to trust you on this, but i'd like a little more than a belief and a hunch.

open to persuasion. fire away.

whalerider55

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Here, follow this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2704906#2705792

This happened today in Volusia County. Someone's got some explaining to do.

[whalerider55]

18. thanks for the link

the clock is ticking. people who are committed to the viability of a democracy are literally risking their lives and careers to ensure that every vote will count...

so i still have to ask. where the hell is the slightest whiff that anyone inside the democratic party is gonna do sqaut about the volumes of evidence that have already been made available?

I'm not talking about shouting "robbery" and "fraud" from the rooftops. I am simply asking that someone from the democratic party emphaitically stand up and say that every vote needs to be counted and recounted to make sure that no was disenfranchised.

the cornerstone to democracy. and we're sneaking around this issue like it would be a public relations disaster to take it head on.

isn't the disaster that the votes haven't and won'ty be counted, because we have apparently given these wholesale electoral thieves plenty of time to shred the evidence?

what am i missing here?

i'd like kerry to win, desperately, but sheesh, I want a leader who will stand up and say the votes need to be counted in Nevada, New Hampshire Florida and Ohio, regardless.

whalerider55
waiting for a persuasive argument, or even an acknowledgment that voter enfranchisement is the over-riding issue, and Kerry's suspicious loss is the damned symptom

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Will this interview Kerry did today answer your questions?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x56035

[SoCalDemGrrl]

21. Correction- Kerry said he's behind by 50,000 votes ck the link

[MrUnderhill]

5. ??? If the Yankees are winning by two runs...

they don't say it could be tied if only one run is taken away from them and added to the opposition.

We need to find a net of 136,000 votes from the uncounted masses. Recounts aren't going to "switch" votes from one candidate to the next (absent some new counting error).

We're behind by 136,000.

[FullCountNotRecount]

10. In Baseball your runs become Zeros in Votes they become other guys 1s

In order to make the voter registrations match the total votes

[MrUnderhill]

14. Ok... you're assuming something very different here.

You're talking about a recount finding fraudulent activity that changed votes from Kerry to Bush.

Yes... find 68,000 of those and it's all over. Heck... find a FEW thousand of those without a good reason for the error and it may be over.

But in terms of the provissional ballots now being examined... there is no "switching" since the votes have not been improperly awarded to one candidate.

Among the provisional ballots, absentees, and undervotes... the gap to be made up is 136k, not 68k. Your speculation comes in to play if and only if we get past the current issues.

[Razorback_Democrat]

9. 68,000? I don't think the fraud perpetrators would be that stupid

Would they?

I think we are dealing with 136K votes until proven otherwise

I'm hoping that the recounts will reveal problems, and that most of the 93,000 "spoiled votes" were Kerry's.

It's still a hard number to overcome

BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!!! BELIEVE!

[blm]

11. Wouldn't that smaller lead trigger an automatic FULL recount of the state?

.

[truehawk]

25. The Automatic Recount = margin >14000 votes

[BeFree]

15. Plus

Since nothing has been corrected since the first tally, and as we know, several overcounts occured, the real number may be way less than 136,000. We just won't know until the vote is certified by all the different counties in Ohio. When will that time come? IIRC, that stage of the certification comes in a few days, yet.

Then begins the recount, and the pouring over of all the overvotes, the machines are plugged in again and run, and possible hand recounts of any paper ballots.

It's a long way from being a done deal. In 2000, it took 9 months for the FACTS to be known. Let's hope it only takes a few weeks this time.

On edit, added this tidbit....pasted

"Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the
BlackBoxVoting.org web site, has
documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One occurred in
Volusia
County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election officials hand recounted
more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed the computerized system,
after the central ballot-counting computer showed a Socialist Party
candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and Al Gore getting minus
19,000. Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush that should not have
been there.

"Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063
votes
to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media,
which
were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the election
for
Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount battle in his
favor."

[saracat]

16. Kerry himself , just now said 50,000

See Kerry breaks his silence thread!

[AJH032]

22. That's because...

he rounded his deficit down to 100,000, and he then assumed that if 50,000 of those 100,000 decided not to vote for Bush, they would have voted for him, and it would be a tie in Ohio. I'm pretty sure that's where the "within 50,000" figure comes from. The unofficial deficit stands at about 132,000 right now. Keep in mind though, that the recount has not started and that number (132,000) does not include any provisional ballot totals.

[saracat]

23. I don't think so. I think he meant what he said,

Why would he "assume " anything? He said they are still counting in Ohio and that he was down by 50,000 votes. I would "assume' he knows the figures better than we do.

[rodeodance]

24. more likely he meant 150, 000???

[JD Lau]

26. I agree there.

And don't think he meant 150,000.

But the issue is the recount part and making it beneficial ...and making it HAPPEN so that it matters!

ACK!