Another Good Article Pointing to Fraud in Florida

[IAMREALITY]

http://www.newportnewstimes.com/articles/2004/11/17/news/news15.txt

[bj2110]

1. Wow. You have to look at the precincts to prove fraud.

No other way around it.

[Carolab]

15. YES

This is what I have been saying all along.

You can see obvious mistallies at the precinct levels, particularly where optiscans were used. The precinct tabulator tallies are skewed, and there are many examples of more votes than voters.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

2. WTF?

"The poll worker who had opened the doors in the told Betts at about 4 p.m. there had been "over 800 people who'd voted." And, Betts said carefully, "She explained that starting after 5, until about 7, about another quarter of the voters come in, after work, to vote." That would mean a total of 1,000 or more voters in the precinct.

But when the results came out, Betts continued, the official vote was given as 535 total votes cast.

That didn't fit right, Betts felt. "How did they get down to 535 people voting there?" he asked.

"There is," he continued, "not much you can do about it. There was no paper trail. The only way to verify this would be to check the voter rolls and see the number of people who were checked off" as having come to the polling place and voted.

"And that still would not prove anything," he noted. "The county there could say maybe they didn't vote for president."

"

Is this not enought proof??

[Old and In the Way]

4. How about conducting a canvass of the precinct and getting

people to sign affidavits attesting to their voting and who they voted for.

Seems to me that this would be quite compelling evidence that would prove systematic corruption of the voting process.

Secret Ballot + No Paper Trail = No Democracy

[Qutzupalotl]

5. That's a good idea!

:thumbsup:

Now...who to send the idea to? Local Dem chapter?

[IAMREALITY]

6. I'm Waiting So much already for someone to do a canvass!

What I wouldn't give to really see that done. Unfortunately though, it would be really hard to prove it was conducted fairly and accurately, but I'm sure we know what the results would show.

[Old and In the Way]

8. If it's a legal affidavitt, it would be a statement that would be

perjorous, if signed falsely. So it does carry more weight than a simple survey. I'd even open to Republicans, if they too want to have their Kerry votes counted.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Sarasota County, FL also has excessive amounts of undervotes

744 - President

5742 - Senate

12297 - Rep Congress 13th Congressional District.

Funny, this also happens to be Katherine Harris' district. Harris supposedly beat Jan Schneider by 11,135 votes.


Also, Martinez beat Castor by 3,777 votes.

So both Senate and US Congress candidates won by fewer votes, than undervotes? Something doesn't look right.

[IAMREALITY]

14. Not Sure What This Is

You may be making a good point with those numbers, but I really don't know what they are or what they mean. Could you clarify a bit more?

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. A lot of people in Sarasota submitted a ballot

but didn't vote for anybody?

Now in every race you will have a few people who don't want to vote for anyone in that particular race. However, when compared to the undervotes in other FL counties of about the same size as Sarasota, they are showing much fewer undervotes.

[indy_azcat]

3. what if...

there are 1000 signatures on the books and only 500 ballots are found (whether by EV or they've gone off to glad bag shredder land whatever)? I mean, are they gone gone? If there's nothing to re-count, then what? Re-election?

Thanks for the link!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. signatures on the books- all voters sign in

and you compare to signature on record. There is a direct recording of who voted.
Seems impossible that their votes were lost at a rate close to 1 out of every 2 cast.

[On the Road]

7. Can the Number of Poll Voters be Ascertained?

I mean people who showed up at the polls and were crossed off the list. I saw an piece on voter/vote discrepancies in Palm Beach. The linked article refers to an in-progress number on election day, and I remember hearing the same thing where I volunteered on election day.

This is THE key piece of information in fraud or errors involving phantom votes or discarding ballots. Are those numbers found in any public election data?

[truehawk]

24. Polling Books, Audit the polling books

[truehawk]

25. Polling books, they are public records, count the signatures

And the absenttees and the provisionals,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=59002&mesg_id=59002

The number of votes has to add up.

[Spazito]

9. Excellent article!

Thanks for the link! It is great to see it in the "mainstream" media and the content sure does raise one's belief in election fraud even higher than they were before, if possible.

[LisaLynne]

10. Drip ... drip ... drip ...

Slowly, it may be leaking out.

[shaggy briard]

11. When I used to work elections

you could be a "scratcher" and run the list of people who voted back to the HQ to phone bank the no-shows. Can you obtain a list from the precinct of who signed in and then compare it to how many ballots were counted?

[Carolab]

16. In Minnesota

the SOS website shows the number of registered voters, number of votes counted, number of signatures, number of absentee and military ballots. You can count the total sigs + total number of absentee/military ballots and you can see that in certain precincts I have personally studied the sums of these numbers do NOT accurately reflect the total number of votes counted. There are TOO many votes counted. This is a phenomenon that appears to be specific to optiscan precincts only. Where the votes were handcounted, these more votes than voters discrepancies do not appear--there are either tallies of signatures plus absentee/military ballots that MATCH the total number of votes, or fewer votes than voters. Most of Minnesota used optiscans. As in Volusia, you need to look at the ORIGINAL, SIGNED tapes. The website keeps changing and who knows what the tapes now show. The ballots need to be counted against the original tapes.

[Spazito]

17. Thanks for the link!

It is starting to hit the 'mainstream', that is great news!

[Dancing_Dave]

19. Great evidence!

Maybe some who lives near that precinct could go check this out a little further. Talk to some of the pollworkers and so on. And they should still have the signitures of everyone who voted to compare against the computer tally.

But you could definately use this couple as a witness in an election fraud trial!

[sharman]

20. Canvassing for proof

This is something I've been wanting to see done. Pick a few suspicious precincts, and call/canvass every voter (or just the registered Dems and Independents, lest the others be hostile), to see who they voted for. This is the only thing we know we have the power to do, that will answer the fraud question for me.

Lots of people have suggested it. Here's my suggestion: For god's sake, every one of those swing state voters was called, canvassed, phone banked and virtually implanted with a tracking device by many different GOTV groups. We have all the names and phone numbers, we have already identified the likely Dem votes. Why can't one of the 527s do exactly what so many on these boards have suggested be done as a threshold fraud test--pick up the phone, knock on the door, and ask!

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. Not reliable

Many folks will either change their mind or not be willing to tell the truth at this point.

[Overseas]

22. Kick... n/t

[illuminaughty]

23. Wonderful

I like to think of this as collecting witnesses for the biggest criminal case in American history. We are the media now, we will have to tell this story, one witness at a time, no matter how long this takes.

[paritom]

26. Thanks (nt)