What is Al Franken's problem?

[hippiegranny]

He started his show today with some totally dismissive comments about how he doesn't think the election was stolen. Just put it right out there. First the high road about O'Leilly and now this... what is going on with Al? Even if he is choosing to remain above the fray (like Kerry?) the least he could do is be a bit better than the MSM and report what is going on with recounts. But his denial of the whole thing smacks of the MSM mindset. I guess I am a bit surprised, and right now, not too inclined to listen to his show for a while.

[okieinpain]

I've totally enjoyed reading the "hate franken", post. especially

after all of the bad post about randi.

[skypilot]

1. It wasn't until I saw your post that I realized...

...that I'd completely forgotten to listen to Franken today. He hasn't been doing it for me lately. Never miss Randi Rhodes though.

[mountainvue]

2. He doesn't believe it happened.

he is also widely rumored to be running for Senate in '08.

[Supormom]

18. No- Senate race in '08

Against Norm Coleman

[Kralizec]

3. I don't know. I've stopped listening to him since Nov.3 . It was like some

thing happened to him almost overnight. Very sad, and alarming... did someone find out some trash about him? He seems void of spirit now...

[HEAVYHEART]

94. Correction. "Something happened" not just to Al

But to EVERYBODY!!!!! ARGGGHHGHHHH!!

[lynx rufus]

that is very disappointing

He is supposed to be in the middle of the fray,
he is not a politician.

[montanacowboy]

4. Franken is worthless

Just look at all the RWingers he has on his shows - how he disses the recount thing - don't listen to him, he is just another apologist for the DLC

[BlueCaliDem]

93. Al Franken? Worthless? Are You So Sure?...

...couldn't it be a smoke screen?
I've listened, and watched the Al Franken show on the Sundance Channel before the election, and read his book.
He doesn't appear to me to be any capitulating kind of guy! Not after the court fight he had with Bill O'Lielly and Fox!
Al Franken has always had close contact with the Democrats, and I think he knows something is a-brewing, and wants the Right-wing, fascist spotlights on him to find nothing while he goes merrily on his way with his show.
Think about it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

103. No wonder liberals get labeled as whiners........

........Al had the guts to go out, and help start a network that finally gives our side a voice in the media, and just because he doesn't march lockstep with all the ideas and fantasies of what people want to believe, he's suddenly shit........

[LaPera]

5. I stopped listening to the stupid fuck!!!

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

6. Franken has moved to 'acceptance'

If the election returns come back otherwise, I'm sure he'll acknowledge it, but I think he wants to move forward and concentrate one what everyone can do in a second Bush term, because that very well could be the reality of the situation.

I do think that everyone on the left should put up a huge fight against Diebold and electronic voting, whether they think the 2004 election was stolen or not. Once this situation is resolved, I think Franken should at least acknowledge that it's a problem.

[springhill]

53. It's one thing for him to accept it.........

It's another thing for him to discount and disparage those of us who actually believe there was something amiss in this election. I also think that he has been told by someone to discount it. He has a very big "in" with the democratic party and I think he is just going along with the message that seems to be saying, look, these guys are silly. And Katherine? She's always there to correct him if he says something too controversial.

[andyhappy]

7. its bummin me out

he sounds very uninspired as well. I think it is only a matter of time before he bails.

[Kira]

8. He said today that Salon.com

has come out to say that it wasn't stolen. (so that should end it.) Gee not for me. I'm getting tired of him too. I used to love him.

[dmac]

45. Is this true? Did Salon

say that? Is there a post on this?

[NYCGirl]

97. Here's the article I think you're talking about:

http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/11/10/voting/index.html

[soleft]

9. Seems like a slap in the face to what has to be a large part of his

audience

[mountainvue]

29. Agreed. n/t

[jmatthan]

10. Al Franken is a comedian

and after the election I have stopped listening to him.

LISTEN TO THE GREAT BREAKING NEWS FROM BEV HARRIS ON THIM HARTMANN SHOW. What they found in Florida Trash Cans!!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[tridim]

11. I like Al as a person,

but AAR needs to fire him and give Randi his slot. He's been less than worthless since Nov 2. It pains me to say that, but it's true. If he's not advancing our causes, what's the point of giving him air time?

[Ducks In A Row]

46. Randi LOVES her spot. She gets the people leaving work then listening...

at home,

she's mentioned that a few times


Al needs to go on to something different, and a new host put in there.

[AgadorSparticus]

87. i agree. i think they should get rid of him and get thom hartman.

i know many people here do not like ed shultz, but i like him too. my preference to replace franken, though, is still thom hartmann.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. Franken is a POS!

:mad:

[XNASA]

13. He has political aspirations, so I'm told.

He hopes to one day become a Senator from Minnesota.

If so, he should quit his radio show.

[Downtown Hound]

14. Franken is a DLC party man

I like his show when he tears the right wing pundits to shreds, which he does very well, but Franken is totally in bed with the DLC. Randi and Mike Malloy are where it's really at.

[ewagner]

15. If it's true

that Al is considering running for office from Minneosta, then he is trying to take the "middle-of-the-road" position and not appear to be "extreme" .

That's just my opinion.....

[RealityCheck04]

16. Why is it that everyone...

in the Democratic echelons who doesn't believe there was fraud is "working behind the scenes" or "taking the high road?"

Maybe the reason Franken, Kerry, McAuliffe, etc, all say there wasn't fraud and that they lost is because they all really do believe that there wasn't fraud and that they lost.

[leftynyc]

34. Perhaps being dismissive of the problems while

there are stories coming out EVERY DAY about possible fraud and definitely questionable issues is what has everyone upset. If he wants to focus on the chimps second term (if it turns out that way) that's fine - there is plenty of fodder there. All he needs to say is he'll wait until all this is settled until he comments on it. And I'd be very careful about using the word "everyone" when commenting on Democrats....some people may question your motives here.

[JHB]

73. I don't think he reads the places where they are reported...

...he keeps to pretty "mainstream" sources unless someone digs it up for him. I've consistently been amazed at some of the things he didn't know much about (PNAC, etc.).

Even for his book most of his material was researched by assistants. He just doesn't dig out these things for himself, and goes with "authorities". If Farhad Manjoo and Mike McCurry say "Bush won, let's move on", then Those Who Know have spoken (and thus, all who say otherwise are not being reasonable, to his mind).

[Crunchy Frog]

42. There is plenty of evidence

and many, many documented cases of fraud, irregularities, and dirty tricks used to disenfranchise people. To deny that is to deny reality. Whether or not it is enough to have swung the election is a question that probably will never be answered.

One thing is for sure though. If we are to maintain the integrity of our electoral system, we need to look into all of these problems and correct them. If we don't, people will simply lose faith in the system and stop even bothering to vote, even more so than now.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

80. Because he is UNDERMINING OUR EFFORTS

...He doesn't KNOW there was no fraud, and since he does not, he could at least retain a healthy skepticism, and a respect for the work the rest are doing. He partially cancels out Randi Rhodes' messages to the fence-sitting listening audience.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

81. Because he is UNDERMINING OUR EFFORTS

...He doesn't KNOW there was no fraud, and since he does not, he could at least retain a healthy skepticism, and a respect for the work the rest are doing. He partially cancels out Randi Rhodes' messages to the fence-sitters in the listening audience.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

82. oops n/t

[Action Jackson]

17. Franken has been worthless post election

I can't believe how much he has changed. How much he has mellowed. How is is just as cynical towards voting irregularities as the mainstream media. AL, PEOPLE WAITED ALL DAY IN LINE TO VOTE. THAT IS A PROBLEM. I have lost most of my respect for Al Franken. I guess he just has his eye on that senate seat.

I have always listened to Randi Rhodes. I have even more respect for her now with her post election coverage.

[petepillow]

19. Maybe someone switched his coffee for the kool-aid...

[Maat]

25. I no longer listen to Al, for the most part.

I never miss Randi and Mike. I'm also enjoying the Unfiltered Broadcast. I was busy crying my eyes out on Nov. 3rd. I tuned into Al, and he had Mark Luther, his Rethuglican childhood friend on, and that did it for me! I turned it off!

I just turned it on. They had David Brock on, who is my hero. Why? Brock's book got me involved in the causes I believe in at the age of 44, in terms of contributing to orgs. And his relationship with his father touched me greatly (because I'm adopted my princess, and I AM her REAL mom) - David realized how strong a bond he had with his dad too. ANYWAY ... Al just cut David off ... and I'm ticked. The few minutes I turn it on ...

EOR ... thanks for allowing me to vent.

[Buzz Clik]

20. Maybe, just maybe ... Franken doesn't believe the election was stolen.

Franken would then join the tens of millions of people who have dealt with this god awful disappointment of having Shrub as Prez for another four years. He's moving on. Not a bad idea.

[springhill]

57. Yes it is a bad idea.........

We have elections with no TRANSPARENCY. And you expect people not to cheat? What in the hell is wrong with the democratic party? They actually believe, with the experiences they have had with the opposition that they will play fair when they have the opportunity not to? Read this part from the daily howler.

APPLEBAUM’S PIETY! There’s almost no way to be this daft—unless you’re a Washington journalist: // link // print // previous // next //

WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 17, 2004

APPLEBAUM’S PIETY:There’s almost no way to be this daft—unless you’re a Washington journalist. We refer to Anne Applebaum’s column in this morning’s Post, in which the siren of ruling-class piety mocks an intelligent Times editorial about our absurd voting systems. Try to believe that a sentient being dreamed up this kooky comparison:
APPLEBAUM (11/17/04): Two weeks after the election, the Internet rumor mill continues to spout stories of computer-stolen votes. No sooner are they disproved than others appear. Some are demanding an Ohio recount. Otherwise sober people are asking whether there can be smoke without fire. Last weekend the New York Times published an editorial that found !no evidence! of vote fraud but called electronic voting !a problem! all the same. After all, the editorial noted, there is !no way to be sure! that votes weren't changed !by secret software! inside the machines. If you're tempted to believe that analysis is rational, just ask yourself this question: Are you really sure that your bank isn't using secret software to steal $9.72 from your retirement account every week? And if the answer is no, why aren't you up in arms about that, too?
Typing from the far side of Neptune, Applebaum compares our current voting systems with the way your bank is handling your money. Have you checked to see if your bank is stealing your money? the deeply daft columnist types.
Could any comparison be less apt? No, you probably haven’t checked this week to see if your bank is stealing your money. But duh! The reason you haven’t checked is obvious—banks provide extensive paper trails, and a major bank would quickly be caught if it swiped that nine bucks every week. (As anyone except a “journalist” would know, many Americans do check their bank statements quite religiously.) And duh! Let’s note another fact which would be obvious to anyone outside Applebaum’s tribe. Here it is: If banks were allowed to run audit-free systems, many banks would of course steal your money! Only a fool would fail to know it. But Applebaum—like powdered elites through the annals of time—is paid good money to pretend not to know this. Instead, she rolls here eyes at the kooky crowd which is troubled by current voting arrangements. And just like that, she starts playing shrink. Try to believe that a sentient being typed up this daft diagnosis:

APPLEBAUM (continuing directly): Given our reliance on computerized accounting, the explanation for the American paranoia about computer voting cannot be rational.
As a recent observer correctly noted, there’s almost no way to be this daft—unless you’re a Washington journalist.
But Applebaum is more than a Washington journalist; she’s also part of a ruling elite, and her cohort has been busy this week mocking those who question the systems by which we conduct our elections. Indeed, the editorial which Applebaum scorns anticipated her mocking imagery, even as it made a point which would be obvious to anyone who understands the American system:

NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL (11/14/04): Defenders of the system have been quick to dismiss questions like these as the work of ''conspiracy theorists,'' but that misses the point. Until our election system is improved—with better mechanics and greater transparency—we cannot expect voters to have full confidence in the announced results.
Duh! The American system is based on “transparency”—on those famous “checks and balances.” We don’t assume that the powerful play by the rules. Unless you’re part of Applebaum’s crowd, of course. In this case, your system is based on mocking those who promote the most basic understandings.
Applebaum’s column helps us remember who we are and where we live. No, we don’t live in the land of our civics texts, where eighth-grade children are falsely told that an eagle-eyed “press corps” looks out for their interests. And no, we aren’t part of a race—the human race—which has been falsely proclaimed, since the Dawn of the West, to be “the rational animal.” In point of fact, we live on a planet where ruling elites have always gamed the system their way; and we live on a planet in which those elites always go out and buy tribunes like Applebaum. So go ahead and stretch your horizons! Read the paragraph quoted above—and search for metaphors which help us see who we are and where we live. Alas! Elites have always typed daft agitprop to fool the peons they hope to suppress, and in the long run, the likes of Applebaum have always been overcome by force, by the will of the people.

There’s almost no way to be that daft—unless you’re part of a store-bought elite. The Applebaums will not be converted. They’ll type on until overcome.

[Rosco T.]

21. Maybe he's "in" on the strategy...

.. keep a low profile and let the 'voice of the people' bring out all the dirt...

[sunnybrook]

109. "in on the strategy" is a definite possibility

After all, he is pretty much an insider... he wrote jokes and other material for Clinton. I think that as wacky as it seems to some on here, it is just too highly coincidental that ALL of the people that we would expect to be openly questioning this have been either silent or dismissive on the fraud issue, including Michael Moore. It really makes me wonder if there is some sort of a coordinated strategy, or at least a let's wait and see what plays out. That way it is already in the record that they are "surprised" as anyone else about the fraud that comes to light. This may BE a flawed theory but it seems so extremely coincidental that they are ALL behaving in this way.

[go west young man]

22. Something is definently amiss.

He was great during the summer but he has become quite boring lately. Everyone whos's left wing goes to Air America because they speak out about what we feel truly passionate about. But it's disheartening for me to turn on his show and listen to him talk about the next four years under Bush without even acknowledging that fraud was probably perpetrated in the election. It's depressing. I just turn him off right now. Randi Rhodes is fired up though and so is the late night guy( I can't recall his name). I think Franken needs to get fired up and quit towing the nice guy line. The Dems are too soft. You need to be contentious to be a cool ass comedian. Get in the fight Al!!!

[Maat]

26. I agree with you, GoWestYoungMan.

n/t

[eataTREE]

23. Maybe he, like, doesn't think the election was stolen.

Neither do I. There is no serious evidence that that was the case.

I dare say Franken has done more for the progressive cause with AAR than any of us here; nice of you to bash him just because he won't don the tinfoil hat.

[leftynyc]

35. You just may want to look at the thread concerning

Volusia county before you say there is no serious evidence.

[madozone]

85. I did, and

while I am appalled, it is too early to be convinced that fraud occurred. If Bev has both the original and new tapes, I want to know what the differences are because that is exactly where the fraud would show up. I didn't see any discussion of the details in her post.

[lthuedk]

98. The last thing BBV would do is reveal their evidence at this time.

If a case for fraud is being realized, the evidence might be sealed. At minimum, its not going public.

Be patient. The defendants might get their desert at the 11th hour.

[tridim]

38. Those who believe the election was clean are the tinfoilers

There is massive amounts of evidence that suggest it was stolen. If you can't see that, then I suggest you pull your head out of the sand and take a look around. Start here http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/

[skypilot]

39. I really don't get this.

OK, if Al doesn't believe the election was stolen that's fine but I really don't understand why it is that people who are more apprehensive or suspicious are dismissed as "conspiracy theorist" or as donning a "tinfoil hat". It's not as though going into this election there weren't plenty of indications that the Republicans would like to steal it if they could. The fervor with which they fought against providing a paper record for voters using electronic voting machines is, by itself, worthy of a few raised eyebrows. People do conspire to do bad things. The last four years of this administration should have convinced us of that by now. Terms like conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hatters connote some kind of unreasonable level of suspicion. I don't think there is anything unreasonable about being very suspicious of the actions of the people who are currently running this country.

[AgadorSparticus]

89. thanks for saying this. i'm tired of the language that people use to

discredit anyone that dares to question the neocon machine. you said it so eloquently and i appreciate people speaking up about terms so loosely thrown around here. if i wanted to be called a conspiracy theorist, i'd turn the tv on and get the beating over and done with. we here on du should be above that...

[sunnybrook]

110. especially since the last election was stolen...

Bush's cousin calling Florida on Fox news... give me a damn break! There were polls taken shortly before this election where a majority of people did not think we would know who was President for weeks, and this was based on our last election. Fool me once shame on you....

[KurtNYC]

47. "There is no serious evidence that that was the case."

Except for internal GOP polls done before the election, exit polls done during the election and ballots in the trash in Florida for starters.

[Ducks In A Row]

49. Really? interesting how you can still believe it with all the accounts,

hell with races changing to dems winning.

I guess some people just won't believe what is in front of their eyes.

[tbuddha]

50. This isn't proof? Geez, I bet you think Scott Peterson's innocent too

Dueling lawyers, election officials gnashing teeth, Votergate.tv film crew catching it all.

Here's what happened so far:

Friday Black Box Voting investigators Andy Stephenson and Kathleen Wynne popped in to ask for some records. They were rebuffed by an elections official named Denise. Bev Harris called on the cell phone from investigations in downstate Florida, and told Volusia County Elections Supervisor Deanie Lowe that Black Box Voting would be in to pick up our Nov. 2 Freedom of Information request, or would file for a hand recount. "No, Bev, please don't do that!" she exclaimed. But this is the way it has to be, folks. We didn't back down.

Monday Bev, Andy and Kathleen came in with a film crew and asked for the FOIA request. Deanie Lowe gave it to us with a smile, but I noticed that one item, the polling place tapes, were not copies of the real ones, but instead were new printouts, done on Nov. 15, and not signed by anyone.

I asked to see the real ones, and they told us for "privacy" reasons we can't have copies of the signed ones. I insisted on at least viewing them (although refusing to give us copies of the signatures is not legally defensible, according to our attorney). They said the real ones were in the County Elections warehouse. It was quittin' time and we arranged to come back this morning to review them.

Lana Hires, an employee who gained some notoriety in a Diebold memo, where she asked for an explanation of minus 16,022 votes for Gore, so she wouldn't have to stand there "looking dumb" when the auditor came in, was particularly unhappy about seeing us in the office. She vigorously shook her head when Deanie Lowe suggested we go to the warehouse.

Kathleen Wynne and I showed up at the warehouse at 8:15 this morning. There was Lana Hires looking especially gruff, yet surprised. She ordered us out. Well, we couldn't see why because there she was, with a couple other people, handling the original poll tapes. You know, the ones with the signatures on them. We stepped out and they promptly shut the door behind us.

There was a trash bag on the porch outside the door. I looked into it and what do you know, but there were poll tapes in there. They came out and glared at us. We drove away a small bit, and then videotaped the license plates of the two vehicles marked 'City Council' member. Others came out to glare and soon all doors were slammed.

So, we went and parked behind a bus to see what they would do next. They pulled out some large pylons, which blocked the door. I decided to go look at the garbage some more. Kathleen videotaped this. A man came out and I immediately wrote a public records request for the contents of the garbage bag, which also contained ballots -- real ones, but not filled out.

A brief tug of war occurred, tearing the garbage bag open. We then looked through it, as Pete looked on. He was quite friendly.

We collected various poll tapes and other information and asked if they could copy it for us, for our public records request. "You won't be going anywhere," said Pete. "The deputy is on his way."

Yes, not one but two police cars came up and then two county elections officials, and we all stood around discussing the merits of my public records request.

They finally let us go, about the time our film crew arrived, and we all trooped off to the elections office. There, the plot thickened.

We began to compare the special printouts given to us with the signed polling tapes from election night. Lo and behold, some were missing. We also found some that didn't match. In fact, in one location, precinct 215, an African-American precinct, the votes were off by hundreds, in favor of George W. Bush and other Republicans.

Hmm. Which was right? Our polling tape, specially printed on Nov. 15, without signatures, or theirs, printed on Nov. 2, with up to 8 signatures per tape?

Well, then it became even more interesting. Lana Hires took it upon herself to box up some items from an office, which appeared to contain -- you guessed it -- polling place tapes. She took them to the back of the building and disappeared.

Then, voting integrity advocates from Volusia and Broward, decided now would be a good time to go through the trash at the elections office. Lo and behold, they found all kinds of memos and some polling place tapes, fresh from Volusia elections office.

So, we compared these with the Nov. 2 signed ones and the "special' ones from Nov. 15 given to us, unsigned, and we found several of the MISSING poll tapes. There they were: In the garbage.

So, Kathleen went to the car and got the polling place tapes we had pulled from the warehouse garbage. My my my. There were not only discrepancies, but a polling place tape that was signed by six officials.

This was a bit disturbing, since the employees there told us that bag was destined for the shredder.

By now, a county lawyer had appeared on the scene, suddenly threatening to charge us extra for the time we took looking at the real stuff they had withheld from us in our FOIA. Other lawyers appeared, phoned, people had meetings, Lana glowered at everyone, and someone shut the door in the office holding the GEMS server.

Andy then went to get the GEMS server locked down. He also got the memory cards locked down and secured, much to the dismay of Lana. They were scattered around unsecured in any way before that.

We then all agreed to convene tomorrow morning, to further audit, discuss the hand count that Black Box Voting will require of Volusia County, and of course, it is time to talk about contesting the election in Volusia.

Bev Harris
Executive Director
Black Box Voting

Together with Andy, and Kathleen.

xxxooo

[go west young man]

65. Like the MSM...

Al has no idea if it was or wasn't stolen. But any thinking person must acknowledge that there is a good probability it was. So why are people just throwing in the towel and moving on. You can't hold elections in the future if this one was corrupt. The U.S. is over if thats the case. But you don't know. Al doesn't know. So why are you believing it wasn't stolen? You have no proof. There is no paper trail. I'm glad your so trusting though. The media are accessories to this theft. They are driving the getaway car by not asking the simple question "Did Bush steal the election?"

[progressiveboston]

24. In Defense of Al Franken

Hi folks -
I am a loyal Al Franken listener and a Randi listener. I think he's great. I will admit I think he's been off his game since 11/2 when I saw him live in Boston. I would gander to say though that we all have been off our game and smearing one of the best spokespeople we have in the media right now isn't going to accomplish anything. Taking the middle of the road is the right thing to do in this situation. Let's let Bev and the Glibs do their thing and get the proof we need before we start launching the political war that's about to take place. We need proof that will stand up in court before we strike. Be patient and please don't canibalize our heroes. We can't afford to.

[shib]

27. Heh

Thom Hartmann is where it's at.

[Buzz Clik]

30. Great post.

It's been a long, long ride, and Franken has been on point for a lot of it.

Let him (and the rest of us) catch his breath.

[Ducks In A Row]

51. When he stops looking, and basically puts down those who still are

then he needs to be somewhere else.

he's being part of the problem at this point.

[jmatthan]

68. Do you think Bev would have raised the

money if Thom, Randi and Mike were not so verbally active?

Also Nader, Cobb, etc. would not have raised the money were not for Randi and Mike.

It is also Thom, Randi and Mike which got Keith Olbermann going on MSNBC!!

And yet Kerry sits with the recount money doing nothing that we can see!!

No. if Al wants no recount - that is his wish for his personal reasons, but many millions of people are standing shoulder to shoulder with Thom, Randi and Mike!!

In my opinion Al should give his time slot to Thom.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[bullimiami]

70. there is no middle of the road

everything there is DEAD. run down by the christofascists. forget it.

[bunny planet]

86. I agree. While Al is less enjoyable to listen to than before the election,

I think he is probably depressed like the rest of us and not wanting to get his hopes up again. He still was instrumental in getting the station on the air in the first place and for that I will always be grateful to him. I think AAR is trying to be a viable media outlet for the long haul, we need them now more than ever. Al is just the cautious voice among the others. He is trying to be balanced (unfortunately it's pretty boring though too). If AAR is to get on in more markets, they still need Al's name recognition as a selling point. He appeals to more old school dems I'm sure, and that's why he's doing it the way he's doing it. He's always been cautious, they can't have everyone on the station be ranting like Randi (I love her for it however) and Mike, they might not survive playing it that way all day long.

Randi's slot is afternoon drive, the most coveted spot and most listened to spot in radio. It would be wrong, wrong, wrong to move her to Al's slot. There is a reason she is on in afternoon drive, she is the only radio veteran in the line-up and her experience shows. They want her just where she is, making the most noise.

When we have proof, and I believe and pray that we will, Al will come around. But he does need to cheer up, and get that ass Mark Luther off the air, that bit is so over, now that His Fraudulency is possibly back for 4 more. I have no patience for listening to his dittohead friend any longer, it was somewhat amusing before the election, now it's just torturous.

[mzmolly]

100. Welcome to DU.

:toast:

I agree with your post 100%

[WestHoustonDem]

28. Switched to Thom Hartmann during this time slot

Will go back to AAR for Randi!

[Kralizec]

32. Same here. Thom Hartmann is really great. I suggest his show. - eom

[bunny planet]

88. How do I get to hear Thom Hartmann?

Is it satellite radio, or can I get it on the internet(s)?

[springhill]

63. I agree.......

I can't listen to someone who dismisses our concerns so readily. Does he think Thom Hartman is a conspiracy thoerist? Mark Crispin Miller and Paul Krugman have both been worried about this election, long before it actually happened.

Of course, I guess it is something I would expect from someone who actually believed Colin Powell's horseshit at the United Nations.

[verdalaven]

31. I still love Al

His books re-invigorated my interest in politics. Before, the slow takeover by the neocons was all so depressing. He made them smaller in my mind by making me laugh at them. I really love him for that.

I do admit that his spirit seems deflated since the 2nd. Mine would be too if I weren't visiting DU. If I were into conspiracy theories, I'd go for the theory that he is laying low until Kerry makes his move......

God, hope is double edged sword, isn't it?

I still try to catch Al's show. I listen to Randi Rhodes sometimes, too and Mike Malloy, depending on how I am feeling.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

37. maybe he just feels totally defeated.

I know I walked around FOR DAYS in a daze...don't know if this is true or not, but he has been instrumental in fighting the RW. IMO

[andyhappy]

40. ok...now I feel bad for slamming Al

I too was walking around in a daze for that first week! and Al had to get on the air right away. Did anyone see him crying during Kerrys consession speech? He does care! I do not think he is part of the MSM and getting orders from rupert murdoch or anything...

I don't really agree with this middle of the road thing, honestly I think that is why the democrats come across as so weak ...but Al is a good guy.

sigh...I think all of us took a collossal kick to the balls and we are ALL still reeling from it.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

52. Oh man that was so hard to watch

I started crying too...

[andyhappy]

62. I was weepy for days

and I am still pretty damn bummed out. I have never been so involved in an election and I am totally devastated.

[hippiegranny]

33. so it's not just me!

Thanks all, for your imput, even those of you who believe that maybe Al really does believe that the Worst.President.Ever. actually legitimately won an election, popular vote and all.

If he does, he is thinking differently than even my septegnarian parents and all their friends in Lancaster County, PA. This totally non-internet based, polka dancing, church going, group of white hairs all believe there is NO WAY this election wasn't rigged. But wondrous Al, who ought to at least throw his lefty listeners a bone wants to claim "No Story. Move along, nothing to see here."

I just think it is curious. Maybe it is all about wanting to run for office. In which case, just how effective of a legislator would he be if he just is in it to play the game?

[milkyway]

36. Franken knows that the world will become a different place for him if

he begins to believe they stole the election. Reality itself will change for him. And once that happens, there's no going back.

Much of the "responsible" left media refuse to consider that the bush empire could be that evil. (Some are also afraid their reputation will be permanently damaged, and they will be marginalized as leftwing nuts.)

The great Seymour Hersh has had a better look at the dark underside of the United States government than most of us ever will. Yet regarding the possibility of government complicity in 9/11, even Hersh "refuses to go there." He just can't bring himself to think that we live in a country where that could happen.

[Minstrel Boy]

77. a lot of truth right there

Great post.

[crispini]

91. I agree. Good post.

I feel like I'm in the same spot for a lot of the same reasons. I myself am still "on the fence" about the stolen election. Do I believe it COULD have been stolen? Yes. Do I believe it WAS stolen? When I sit down and start thinking about that it's like WHOA... through the rabbit hole. I am still seriously entertaining the possibility... but JEEZ, it frightens the FUCK out of me. On a DAILY basis.

[Pooka Fey]

95. Great post. Evil will always rear its ugly head when the

majority of the public refuses to see or acknowledge its existence. I wish people would wake up too. These neo-cons aren't going away, even if we can prove Kerry won, and they will not concede their power just because of a four year interruption of a Kerry presidency. Personally, I think Al has too much to lose to get involved in this, and I've stopped listening to him. This is just the beginning, if we decide we are not going to just lay down and take it. Does anyone know the story of le resistance?

[renate]

41. he's probably just exhausted

He certainly put a lot of energy into trying to get Bush defeated. I can't imagine why he'd be so dismissive of the evidence that the election was stolen--UNLESS he's been instructed to talk that way by the Kerry campaign, which wouldn't surprise me one bit since they're pals, apparently.
Whether or not he really believes the election was stolen, he's definitely lost about 90% of his old fire in just the past couple of weeks. Maybe he's just stunned, like that Monty Python parrot. But if he doesn't recover fast, his downer energy is going to suck a whole lot of the energy and excitement right out of Air America at a time when we need them most.

[peacetalksforall]

43. I'll be a two-bit psychologist for a minute...I think he is driven by

strong emotions about justice, but his focus is very narrow - maybe too narrow for the job. I become enraged when people say that they don't think there is anything there. I think it is traitourous to make that declaration. Since how did Repubs gain honesty overnight?

[Action Jackson]

44. Franken ignoring FACTS of election mess

I just wrote a long detailed reply but it was accidentally deleted. So this will be the abbreviated version.

I have no problems with Franken not reporting the election was stolen or fraud was committed. No problems there.

However, he has ignored the actual facts of voting irregularities and machine problems that occured. He needs to be constantly attacking and exposing the facts about electronic voting machines, Diebold's and ESS' republican connections, the partisan Blackwell and his ilk, THE LONG LINES ON ELECTION DAY, etc. etc. etc.

He owes it to us to investigate and report on the facts as they come out. He hasn't even done that. That is why I am mad at him. He is ignoring everything about this election. I'm not mad at him for refusing to use the words fraud or stolen.

[renate]

55. Good point

It's one thing to keep quiet about it if Kerry had asked him to (or if he doesn't want to talk about it, whatever).
But it's another thing completely to come out and say there's nothing there.
Hard to believe this is the same guy who wrote "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them"--it was so barbed and full of outrage
Funny... when AAR first went on the air I thought that Morning Sedition was pretty amateurish and that Al was great. Now I think the opposite--Marc and Mark seem to have hit their stride. And I still really like Katherine (and her cocktail-party laugh). She seems to have been having to work harder to keep the show on track... as though Al is spacing out or something. It all makes me wonder whether he's so disappointed that he's just not thinking straight.

[go west young man]

71. Ok I take back some of my negative thouhgts on Al from earlier...

after reading the posts here saying how upset he was. I apologize. Maybe what he needs right now is us to lift him up and bring him back into this battle. I know he's done a lot for us. Maybe some people here could start a thread on how we can reinvigorate Al Franken and get him behind us on this thing. I'm sure he believes it was fraud deep down.

[hippiegranny]

75. is there a way to send him this thread?

to let him know how the "little people" are feeling about him right now?

[verdalaven]

48. Carter on Al Franken

Jimmy Carter is speaking right now on how messed up our elections are in comparison to third world countries.

[global1]

54. Franken Just Commented To Pres. Carter About A Strategy ....

I too have been disappointed with Franken since Nov 3rd. Lost his spirit. He's been a real downer since. But I just was reading this thread and tuned in on Franken as he was finishing with Pres. Carter. He said something to the effect of a strategy that will be coming or playing out soon. Anyone have any details on this? Did we give up on Franken too soon?

[RealityCheck04]

56. Probably means a strategy for election reform in the future

[demodonkey]

58. I always thought he is a better writer than "performer".

Sorry AAR...

Since the election I CAN NOT listen to Franken more than about 5 minutes or so... His so-called "funny" stuff just makes me sick since then.

Oy oy oy.

[Lena inRI]

59. Al is a better read than talk show host. . .

because his dialogues are more like self-centered monologues. Katherine often has to check his ego-centric digressions.

I just tune him out, tune in Randi, Mike Malloy, and Thom in that order of preference.

Let the free market determine the endurance of these talkers. The truth shall set us free. :grouphug:

[newyawker99]

101. Hi Lena in RI!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Eloriel]

60. Someone send him this --

it's superb:

Best Fraud Summary I've seen!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x57214
Link: http://www.bopnews.com

[glitch]

61. AL needs to just say no to faith-based election returns. Once he does and

wakes up he'll be good again. My days used to be Al in the morning, then I download Thom Hartman mp3 for later, so I get them both. Until Al snaps out of it I'll just listen to Thom.

But I look forward to Al's enlightenment and await his return to the reality-based community.

[KarenS]

64. Al Franken isn't the only one,,,,

I agree that it's been hard to listen to some of these guys lately,,,,, How can anyone say there wasn't fraud?? How can anyone say there is fraud?? The last time I read the BBV website, they said they suspect it,,,, in my mind, because of all the work they've done, they absolutely have the facts available to them to make such a declaration!! Until all the facts are known, whether it's fraud, procedural failures, software failures, hardware failures, programming 'glitches' ~ whatever, let's get it all on the table before the absolute statements begin to happen. This must spark election reform & consistancy or every future election will be suspect. I think it is irresponsible for any public figure to be speaking in absolutes right now!!

Moving on and accepting things does not excuse us from getting the facts!!!!

now

:D as for me, I think the Repugs are capable of anything,,,,,

[Broken Acorn]

66. He's a Sellout

The Corporate Right got to him...that is why his show sucks now and is completely watered-down.

I am glad others agree.

[andyhappy]

74. I don't think so...

but he sounds like a broken man to me.

[budkin]

67. Al totally lost his passion... it's depressing!!!

Remember in the weeks leading up to the election how fired up he was, bringing the case against Bush? Now he sounds like a beaten man, he has no passion in his speech, he sounds completely lethargic and uninspired to fight the good fight. And dismissing even the possibility of fraud just reinforces all of this. I just can't listen to his show until he snaps out of it.

[bullimiami]

69. ive been back to thom hartmann

if al cant get his head out of the sand i and not going to listen to him anymore.

mike malloy
randi going strong just like she did after 2000
majority report (so far)

al. you lost me buddy.

[go west young man]

76. The repubs eat thier own....

not us. We need to find a cool creative way to get Al Franken going again. He's done a lot for us and he can do much more if WE can dig deeper and pull out some good ideas. How about we email the shit out of him with Al we love you cards or maybe we can buy him an inflatable doll that looks like Condolezza!!!

[nashville_brook]

78. no doubt

what a disappointment.

[ruthg]

72. Ambition?

I am thinking...

[billie_]

79. I listen to Thom Hartman now...

and learn something

I am grateful for Al, but since Nov. 2nd Very disappointed by his failure to see the obvious fraud that has taken place, but he has always been like that...he doesn't *get it* until later in the game it always seems....anyway....I won't bad mouth him, as i am grateful for all he & AAR have done....

now, i just go back to good old Thom Hartman & learn somestuff...

then i listen to Randi & Mike

& when I can Janeane & Sam....

i actually like all the shows, but am a lil disappointed in Al's show since the 2nd

[Action Jackson]

83. and where is Paul Krugman?

He has taken a leave until January. WE NEED KRUGMAN TOO. this has been discussed in another thread i think.

[bunny planet]

96. How can I listen to Hartmann, do I need satellite radio or just internet?

[DELUSIONAL]

84. Just stop listening to him -- listen to Randi Rhodes & Mike Malloy

also -- Majority Report -- and then there is Mike Webb -- Seattle's own liberal talk show host -- with an off beat sort of humor.

Don't even listen to what's his name that dumb fuck who comes on before Randi -- listen to some music -- something that motivates and/or relaxes you.

[Ignoramus]

90. He's "fact based"

"Fact" being whatever the official conspiracy theory is. It's the same old story.

Common categories of people:

1) The undead

They openly state that they operate based on blind faith in some ideology, e.g. McChristians, Republicans, Fascists etc.

2) Conservatives/Progressives *

They tend to accept "common knowledge" as fact, while intending, though failing a lot, to entertain ideas that challenge those ideas. I stereotype Al Franken and most people I meet who identify themselves as Democrats as this.

3) Liberals/Anarchists *

Intend, though failing a lot, to reject "common knowledge" as fact, requiring a proof of the validity of such theories.

* I've switched my slur around, to favor "liberal". Words are word's worth.

[MARALE]

92. Maybe he doesn't want to have a win

The more I see the mess that we are in with the dollar falling and Iraq rising against us, the more dispondant I am and secretly happy * is in charge when the &%#t hits the fan. On the other hand I hope we won, it would give me something to feel better about as my kids come into this world.

[mzmolly]

99. Al Franken is entitled to his opinion. He believed Colin Powel at the UN

and has since did the big Mea Culpa. I expect should anything come of the voter fraud issue, he'll do another? ;)

[Dr Fate]

102. Love Al, but Big Eddie, Rhandi & Malloy are tops.

n/t

[Must_B_Free]

104. I perceived a mixed message

he plays the front role of saying it wasn't stolen, then he goes on to talk about irregularities, almost suggesting that it was stoilen, but he won't say it...

[autorank]

105. Uh, emotional instability to start; how about 'power hoe'

[Bread and Circus]

106. Franken is a big wimp. He's supposed to be our answer to Rush...

but he just caves in like a house of cards in a stiff breeze.

Fuckin' Rush would never KowTow like Franken does.

Franken is a POS in my opinion. He should be banned from AAR.

I can't wait till he loses his senate run and then maybe he
will see what "fair" looks like.

[The Flaming Red Head]

107. He became a big fat idiot just like his idol Rush

[The Flaming Red Head]

108. Or is he just another stinky old fart

The polls say Stinky old fart 139% to big fat idiot 49%