Something big has to happen very very soon or the fraud issue goes bust

[Onlooker]

Not exactly, but after December 13, the fraud issue becomes largely academic, something that must be addressed in legislation. It will be a good issue, but a Nader-like issue.

Right now, the fraud issue has the potential to protect us from Bush and to right some of the wrongs we've endured. But, that will only happen is something very big breaks. Is there any chance of that?

[Vincardog]

1. OK go ahead and break somthing BIG do you think it will make MSM?

[Roxy66]

36. WHAT IS MSM?

[TexasChick]

44. Main Stream Media. n/t

[bullimiami]

2. We start with NH.

I guess we reevaluate then.

Kerry has the cash to ask for hand counts all over the place if NH turns up phony. The recount of Ohio is already in the queue.

I dont know.

[proudbluestater]

35. Nader is having selected precints recounted in NH

He suspects, has been shown, that the black boxes are giving anywhere from 5-15% MORE votes to Bush than they should be. If this turns out to be true in NH, he hopes to extrapolate that throughout the country.

[hippiegranny]

3. Your question has been asked

in various forms on this forum, including by yours truly. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows for sure where this is headed. The eternal optimists are sure the election will be overturned. The pessimists think Rove&CO have pulled off yet another untouchable coup, and the pragmatists think that we at least might be able to get the system on the road to being repaired before any more elections end with highly suspect results.

Besides the fraud potential this whole thing unearths, I fervently hope this uncovers some dirt on the complicity of the MSM. They are in up to their plastic, empty headed necks.

[Demit]

4. Loved your last graf, hippiegran! Me too.

[Eloriel]

12. And the realists say...

this is about saving democracy, and preserving our right to vote and actually elect someone who will then take office.

[proudbluestater]

34. It certainly IS about saving Democracy!

David Cobb of the Green Party said just that today on Democracy Now. He knows damn well he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to win anything, but he thinks ensuring the integrity of our voting system and election process is a worthy goal.

Have to say that I applaud Dave Cobb AND Ralph Nader for jumping in to save our country from itself. There is NOTHING in it for them, really. Sometimes it's so refreshing to see somebody do something "for the good of the country." Bev Harris, Ralph Nader, David Cobb, patriots all.

Personally I don't care anymore who wins. I really don't. I care that the votes are counted fairly and that the next election and the next and the next are FAIR elections. We've experienced THREE in a row where the exit polling "failed." But never before in our history, pre-Bush, pre-Rove, did our exit polling fail.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. A very wise Democrat Judge warned me

Do not get your hopes up. You may have all the evidence in the world but they will find a way to block it. If it has to go to congress or to the court we are goners. Uncovering later will be brushed off.

It is like one big secret club. Those in power now. The worst thing is the media, who we once could count on, has deaf ears. Where's the old Woodward and Bernstein. Where's the old search for truth. It's like the secret club is patting us on the head -- not worried -- they've got the end game covered.

Sorry so much pessimism, but I just got home from a government agency I am on assignment with. "They" are mysteriously moving hundreds of people from DC to a new location out west in Red country. Of course no one wants to uproot like that and will lose their jobs. Some of them have been there 30 years. That's sad enough but what made me even sadder is what a couple middle managers just told me. They don't even want to continue at all with the agency - "Under Bush, there has been a veil of secrecy they never had. There are unethical and illegal things happening and no one is stopping it"

[Nothing Without Hope]

10. It's secret bunker time...

I am very much afraid that, with all the hate,
combined with all the unsecured nuclear material floating around the world,
combined with the incompetence& wrongheadedness of this administration,

there is going to be, sooner or later, a nuclear explosion in this country. B*sh & Co certainly know when & where to hide in a safe place, and they will want to be ready to leave Washington DC. In fact, they probably already are fully prepared to leave at the least whiff of danger. After all, the preprations for martial law have been in progress for a long time now. They won't be trying to protect the country from the attack any more than they did on 9/11, but they WILL be well-prepared to take over as an "emergency" dictatorship. I'll bet there's LOTS of quiet redeployment going on right now.

How I wish this were just tinfoilhattery...
:tinfoilhat:

[Zookeeper]

16. Chimpy's behavior on 9/11 was a good indication...

of his unwillingness to face danger during a crisis. He got the news and sat like a lump with his deer-in-the-headlights expression for seven minutes (could he be thinking, "Gee, maybe I should find out what's going on?"...Not.). Then he disappeared down a rabbit hole for hours and I thought, "I don't like Bush, but where the heck is he? It's his job to step up to a microphone and attempt to reassure the American people that things are under control." Cheney was hunkered in a bunker somewhere. The only person in authority who actually appeared to be trying to deal with the crisis was Rudy Giuliani.

If Smirk's history has shown him to be anything, it's a coward. You can count on him saving his butt if we have another attack.

[Nothing Without Hope]

21. Yes, but...

I agree with you that everything we know of *w* confirms his cowardice. He really is a pathetic excuse for a human being, in lots of ways. But I don't see that as the worst part.

I don't recall the name of the government program that was discussed all over the web a month or two ago-- I think it was called "Operation Armageddon" or something else equally dramatic. Cheney had played an active part in the plans for this thing, basically a protocol to declare martial law and set aside the US government, then rule as a dictatorship from a secret bunker. (Sorry, I don't have links -- at the time this story was making the rounds I was too depressed by it to save any articles.) From appearances, the administration was all set for this when 9/11 came along. Whether or not they knowingly staged or allowed the 9/11 attacks we don't know, but they were surely ready to take advantage of them if they escalated.

B*sh is really a figurehead, carefully molded and guided by the people who actually run the government. And THEY are very ready to declare a dictatorship in the event of a large-scale attack on the US. B*sh's cowardice is nasty and his hypocrisy reeks, but the shortcomings of this one man pale next to what may happen sometime in the next few years of escalating hate and violence.

As you can see, I am very frightened about these things that seem all too plausible based on what we know. (If I were one of the loyal federal agents who REALLY know the situation, I'd probably be sweating blood.) I sincerely doubt that the right steps are being taken to protect this country from major attack, and I see no reason to believe that we are immune from a nuclear attack by terrorists. They have the money, they have the hate, there is apparently lots of unsecured nuclear material, and I don't see how this administration is truly prepared to prevent such a catastrophe. They'd rather "liberate" Iraqi towns than face the truth of what the real dangers are.

I just don't understand why these dots aren't being connected by more public figures. Greedy shortsightedness is one thing, but this sort of global danger really ought to trump that.

[Zookeeper]

57. I'm certainly willing to consider what you've written...

and I would like to see more information about that. I really was just mentioning how we have already seen Smirk behave when HIS personal safety might be at risk (and could add his "war" record and terror of non-scripted public events and press conferences).

We are in complete agreement about our nation's vulnerability to attack. I had my hackles up on Nov. 3rd and was ready to jump right back into the fight. However, on Nov. 4th, I woke up with the chilling realization of the message American voters had just sent to the world and how poorly BushCo's four years in office has prepared us for the fall-out.

BushCo has done virtually nothing to secure our borders, ports, water-supplies, nuclear facilities and airline travel. At the same time they've demonstrated that the U.S. will attack without provocation, killed 100,000 mostly women and children in Iraq, allowed hundreds of pounds of explosives to slip into the hands of people who are using them against our own troops and flipped the finger to the rest of the world. For the first time, I am very worried about another terrorist attack.

I don't believe that the Bush Administration cares about protecting Americans. We just get in the way of their ideological goals.

[dbonds]

42. My Guess

He was setting there thinking, "Damn that Karl, he didn't tell me we were doing this, now what part am I supposed to play".

[Nothing Without Hope]

46. you got it, I bet. His face over "My Pet Goat" said it all

I mean really, the guy is in way, way over his head and trying like hell to fake it.

[savetheuniverse]

17. UN Convention on Genocide

Actually, if something big enough breaks to conclusively proof all our most horrific "speculations" then it is no longer a domestic issue -- the US finally signed on the UN Convention on Genocide in 1988, under Reagan's rule. We are subject to its regulations. Looks to me like we are in violation of almost everyone of them .... in my wildest delusional dreams, UN troops arrive to remove America's Dumbest Criminal from office--the sooner the better.

Originally, I'd thought the UN could provide no help. But I'd forgotten about the Genocide convention.

Anyway, call it my profoundest fantasy of poetic justice.

[Kansas Wyatt]

25. That's odd....

I agree with what you were warned about, but I had a conversation with someone in a government agency right after the election. I was there for official business and we got to talking about the election. He was pissed off by who was elected, and we talked about how none of the outcome made sense. I could tell that he was worried about something that he did not tell me, but he did make some comments to me about not being certain about the near future.

[Nothing Without Hope]

27. Not being certain about what?

Were you able to get a sense of what general kind of thing he was referring to? Could it be a secret fraud investigation? Some kind of sting operation? I've been wondering since her comment on Nov 5 what Bev Harris was referring to when she said that there were clear indications that her group's fraud investigation was not the only one.

The country would be in a bad position even if B*sh is out of office, but with him and his enablers in place, it's time for the nightmares.

[HEAVYHEART]

6. sigh...

I woke up from my nap depressed again. I hate it. I hate everything right now.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Amen

Need something good to happen. People I talk to from the other side (half-way decent people) say, oh its just a bunch of isolated incidents.

I think if somehow someone could really consolidate all the issues and get it aired the impact would be greater....Maybe some of the more rational republicans may listen.

I would love to think that is this whole thing was turned around, and if Kerry was ahead, I would care as much about all this mess. Would have loved to be in a position to test myself.

[HEAVYHEART]

55. I wish. None of the repukes that I've talked to wanna

hear me talk about fraud. I hate them. I HATE EM ALL!!!

[politicasista]

23. I feel that way too

Just three weeks ago, I was feeling positive that America was going to change. It just feels like our hopes have been shattered, like a bad dream/nightmare.

[proudbluestater]

37. Politicasista? From Kerry's Forum?? Nice to see you!!

I was MI4KERRY there. We corresponded often. (If you don't remember me, please don't crush me by saying so!!) I'm so glad you're here!

I feel the same as you, as though our hopes were just shattered. I know the odds were against us, but seeing John Kerry drawing 80,000 people to his rallies when Bush in my town could only bring in 8,000, well that meant something to me, something you can't put your finger on really.

It is like a bad dream. I took my daughter to the mall tonight and they're playing Christmas music and the decorations are all up and normally I am CRAZY for Christmas. I just kept thinking, I cannot get into it this year. Not this year. People are dying in Iraq. Our government has been taken over by fascists. We are promoting liars like Condi and abusers like Gonzalez for their FAILINGS. The world has turned upside down.

[politicasista]

38. Hey, MI

what's up. Thanks for having me.

[illuminaughty]

53. Nice words.

You took the feelings right out of my heart. This will be a bleak Christmas, yes. If these fundies were really Christians, they'd be aware of the fact that Israel is busy destroying the landmarks that they consider sacred. I have never understood that.

But, don't give up. Between coming here and watching Free Speech TV (9415 on Dishnet), I find hope to hang onto.

I find Mainstream Media so laughable now and as long as I know how many of us know the real deal, it's Ok. Tonight there will be another "No Stolen Elections" meeting in Kansas City. It has gotten large enough to be held at the Teamster's Hall.

[HEAVYHEART]

56. I know what you mean proudbluestater

I love Christmas. And let me tell you how much I love and enjoy it. Last weekend, I put up our Christmas tree. Yes already. I know, I'm a dork. But you know what? I'm not enjoying all the xmas stuff that I used to. I used to be able to sit and look at the tree and all the decorations and really enjoy just being around it all. Not this time. I want so bad to be like I used to be. Easily amused, happy all the time. Not anymore. I just hate everything right now.

[Nothing Without Hope]

8. How about yesterday's Volusia scandal?

This was all caught on film, and it's about as red-handed a vote fraud operation as you can get. Absolutely amazing. The story first broke last night with a long post by Bev Harris (BlackBoxVoting.org) here on DU. The thread is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2704906

Bev has now transferred the story and updated it somewhat at the Black Box Voting.org site, which is here (you have to scroll down a fair amount):
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

The hope is that this will be flashy enough to get the necessary attention and start the process of contesting the vote. And also, of course, that there will be more of these exposures in the next two weeks. In one of her posts in the DU discussion thread on the Volusia event, Bev said, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!" I wish I knew what she meant. She and her gallant little army and the Votergate people and the other brave fraud-busting crews can't do it all. There has to be media support and big support from the Democratic Party. Not too damn much of either of those has been in evidence yet.

The whole country is in the ultimate clliffhanger here--because you're right in that unless things happen soon, this "election" travesty is going to be history just like the 2000 theft was.

And I'm truly afraid that the country -- hell, the world! -- isn't going to survive another four years of the B**h gang. The nuclear bomb material is just floating around, and there are plenty of hating people ready to use it on us. And do you really think Condi and Porter and the other brilliant, dedicated public servants in this administration are competent and motivated enough to prevent catastrophe?

You don't have to answer that.

[savetheuniverse]

19. Bev's report...

my experience today running around like the stark-raving lunatic i have become as a result of all this was that Bev's report is convincing. It is getting people to pay attention. Distribute it widely with the blackboxvoting.org URL.

Everyone I showed it to agreed: we are in a national state of emergency, whether the press wants to acknowledge it or not. we need to get the people who are still in denial to agree and take immediate action. Bev's report WORKS to that end.

But on the NUKE issue...the bushies of course are the only ones who really know the extent of their crimes. If my suspicions about that extent are true, then the only way out for them is to NUKE someone themselves (Europe?):scared: :nuke: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

[Nothing Without Hope]

26. I have been sending Bev's story around

I've emailed Olbermann twice, BuzzFlash twice, Mahablog three times, and several other places. Skippy had a thread on it quite early and it was in several diaries at Kos. Kevin Drum has been rather cautious lately, so I gave him a pass. I've also been emailing everyone I know that I think might pass it on. I'm sure hundreds of other DU people and lots of others have been doing all this, too. And in her thread yesterday Bev Harris herself said that (my paraphrase) she and her people are getting the word out.

Bev's story is now linked to at Buzzflash, but things have been generally pretty silent since the story broke a day ago. I'm hoping that this is because the print and big media reporters are waiting to have the proof in front of their eyes, and that logistically there hasn't been time yet for this. If the silence lasts much longer, I'll tend to think more in terms of the uglier possibilites, like active suppression of the news. I really prefer not to wear my tin foil hat until there's no other option. :tinfoilhat:

Re the nuke thing, as you'll see from my posts in this thread, I'm very afraid and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I don't trust the administration to protect this country. I can only guess that their blind selfishness is so massive that they simply cannot see the scale of what may happen. In this case, alternative theories are even uglier.:tinfoilhat:

[ailsagirl]

29. What about the ACLU and NAACP??

There were so many documented incidents of disenfranchisement of Blacks, why hasn't the NAACP stepped in?? BLATANT violations of voters' rights-- quick, while we still have them!!

And what about the ACLU?? These are huge organizations and they have clout and money... why aren't they getting involved??

(Perhaps they are-- I'll need to check out their websites. But I'm surprised they're not more vocal about it.)

I wish someone in the know (and there must be hundreds) would spill the beans... you would think that $100,000 would talk pretty loudly!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

33. I'm hoping that they are or soon will be involved

So many people have been blitzing blogs and reporters about the Volusia story and other fraud stories, surely they didn't skip informing the NAACP and the ACLU. Chances are, they would find out on their own, for they surely must have someone watching the blogs! But I swear, even though I'm just one more blog reader and in no way on the inside of anything, if I don't hear anything for several more days, I'll email them myself! I've already been bombarding Olberman, blogs, and everybody I can think of among my acquaintances that might be able to do some good! I'm guessing all these people are pretty much inundated with emails - it's the word from the investigators themselves, accompanied by evidence, that will really count.

[ailsagirl]

43. I emailed the NAACP

but couldn't find a national email address for the ACLU.

I'm sure I'll hear back from the NAACP. Obviously, they're aware of the problems but I just don't know what they're doing about it.

I would think this should take precedence over practically any other case they're working on. What's more precious than our democracy??

I think it's a disgrace that so many Blacks were denied the right to vote-- that makes me absolutely furious. That, in itself, should be grounds to invalidate the election. Imagine, our citizens, many of them poor and elderly, being threatened, lied to, made to stand for HOURS in line to vote-- that's so outrageous it just makes my blood boil.

But that's how the GOP (grand old pricks) operate, I guess. Bastards.

Actually, I think I'll make a few calls tomorrow to both ACLU and NAACP and see what they're doing about this. If we lose our democracy we lose everything.

[dmac]

41. Bev's story wasn't completely ignored today as

I saw one article about the trip to the records office and it read so "nice" that it was hard to believe I was reading about the same incident. And that, my friends, is what they will do with everything. How can we fight that?

[Nothing Without Hope]

48. I really think this will change over the next few days.

The press needs solid evidence in their hands so they can commit to the story without being dismissed as conspiracy nuts. Even Bev Harris herself says it's probably too early to blame the press for not being more aggressive. Don't give up!

[Omaha Steve]

9. I remember in Mrs. Brown's history class

There was a presidential election where a bogus set of electoral votes from a state arrived. If we put in a bogus set for Ohio,.... they don't open them until January either.

[Eloriel]

11. Wrong goal, IMO

Dec. 13 means nothing for this issue. It's not about getting Kerry in office, it's not even about delegitimizing Bush (tho that could be a viable added benefit).

This is about saving our democracy. If we don't get things fixed NOW with these riggable, hackable, unverifiable voting machines (not to mention the overwhelming vote suppression that's also been going on), we might not ever have a chance again.

If you're pinning your hopes on those of us who are trying to make a dfference getting Kerry in office, well, you miss.

If you're not all that familiar with the issue of computerized voting and how fraud-prone it really is, I suggest you do some research. It's been discussed for 2 solid years here at DU.

Here is collection of links, some of them rather eye-opening, on DU just in the last week or so (and be sure to read the 4th link, it's dynamite):


VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

ALSO SEE: VOTE FRAUD? What can we do? http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2701028#

********SEND THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND MEDIA TOO *********
Best Fraud Summary I've seen!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x57214
Link: http://www.bopnews.com

[fearnobush]

20. Agreed, this was never about John Kerry. In fact, I never shed a tear

yet. I knew something like this would happen, unlike 2000, Gore, I cried my heart out, this time... no. No tears for a dumb concession speach that was so lame and hasty. At this point, my goal is the same, save democracy. Destroy election fraud and end the racism our main stream political parties engage in.

[grumpy old fart]

22. God help me, I'm going Green...

The way this is heading, unless this is some kind of stealth strategy from the DNC, I'm on board with Nader that there ain't a smidgen of difference between the parties ans what we need is a revoluton....

[silvershadow]

45. just off the subject a bit, but I've been wondering....

What if Nader and Dean ran on the same ticket? Democrat or Independent or Green? Any thoughts?

[Nothing Without Hope]

49. I don't think Nader is going to be a real candidate again

and I can't see Dean accepting him on the same ticket, let alone the Democrats letting Nader anywhere near them. Even if there were a burgeoning third party movement, Nader would not be its candidate. The Greens dumped him and I think he'll stay dumped.

[Zan_of_Texas]

50. Green? Nader? different parties though

Bear in mind that although Nader ran as a Green in 2000, he ran as an independent in 2004. David Cobb ran for president in 2004 as a Green -- great guy, based on my two personal encounters with him.

The efforts of Nader, Cobb, and the Libertarian are EACH stronger than the efforts of Kerry (at least to the naked eye) in getting vote recounts and verification, so far.

[MarkusQ]

28. I totally agree (n/t)

[dmac]

40. I appreciate what you are saying, however,

if we do not get this dealt with before the swearing in, we will meet enormous resistance in getting anyone's attention on it afterward. I agree it isn't about getting Kerry in, but I disagree that we do not need to try to meet the deadlines. If we are having a hard time getting anyone to notice with all of this kicking and screaming now, who is going to notice once it is a done deal?

[Deb S]

13. Ohio provisionals

Ohio has to have votes certified by 12/3 and then recounts begin!

[proudbluestater]

39. Oops, I may have misspoke, I thought it was Dec. 13 for Ohio?

I thought I heard the 13th. My bad.

[Stop Shrub]

14. Faith

keep it guys, I honestly feel that we really do still have hope, it isn't over. Everyday more stuff comes out, we are putting up the good fight, I'm now convinced that fraud took place, 2 weeks ago i was just depressed. We just have to keep it up, we will get them, it comes down to justice, and throughout US history that is what has ultimately prevailed and will again this election. Bush rove and chenney will get whats coming to them i promise you that. If it takes 40 years I will personally make sure that in the very least history looks at his oligarchy as the biggest disaster in American history and the bush name will be worth as much as it should be, nothing.

[politicasista]

15. It has been pretty negative today...

about Kerry's campaign funds to the fraud issue. Lot of pessimism I guess.

[ahyums]

18. The recounts are likely to be the big thing

The vast part of this fraud issue is likely to be played out with the recounts, which in New Hampshire's case start tomorrow. Once the Ohio count comes around I'd put money on it getting a fair bit of attention and that's likely to put the whole thing right in the center of mainstream coverage.

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. What Bev Harris is saying about the story getting out

In a story from the Boston Globe, currently posted at Common Dreams here:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1117-01.htm
Bev Harris is quoted as being interviewed by the Globe reporter, so she is getting the story out.
Excerpt:
In an appearance Nov. 8 on the "Democracy Now!" program, Harris, whose organization is investigating allegations of voter fraud in Florida and Ohio, told host Amy Goodman that sources in television news have told her "there is now a lock-down on this story. It is officially . . . 'Let's move on' time." In an interview with The Boston Globe, she reiterated those potent allegations but declined to reveal her sources. She also appeared to soft-pedal the idea that the media was at fault, saying instead that it was too early in the fraud-investigation process to blame reporters for not being more aggressive.

"I'm not terribly concerned about . . . the media's coverage of it yet," she said. "We're still early. . . . Caution's probably appropriate. a very sensitive story."

[Vote4Kerry]

24. From the AP: Ohio counted 2600 votes twice

Check out the link to the AP article:
http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/special_packages/election2004/10208111.htm

[ailsagirl]

31. Excellent voter fraud link

http://www.opednews.com/keefer_111504_readings.htm

[proudbluestater]

32. Dec 13th is Ohio's deadline to report their election totals

According to Green's David Cobb, any recounts cannot commence until AFTER those votes are certified!

With the deadline the same as the electoral college vote (isn't it?), things are going to be pretty messy.

[ZRB]

47. That can't be right...

I thought Ohio had to certify their votes on December 3rd, and that electors had to be chosen by the seventh. So how could the 13th be the deadline?

[ewulf]

52. I think its the 3rd for certification,

and the 13th for the electoral college vote: unless I'm mistaken.

[symbolman]

51. Buzzflash Premium - "Electile Dysfunction" a Take Back the Media FILM!

How about our movie for an Xmas Present?

BuzzFlash's Recommendation

"We've posted links from and collaborated with Take Back The Media before. The work they do is always visually engaging, passionate, informed, pro-democracy, and antihypocrisy, which makes it a perfect fit with BuzzFlash and our readers.

When TBTM told us of their new film on election fraud and the 2004 elections, we wanted to help get the word out because -- not having seen much more than the trailer -- knew it was something our readers would enjoy.

We'll let Take Back the Media take over:"

For instance, do you know if you have a Constitutional right to have your vote counted, or for you to vote at all?

The 2004 election is no different than its predecessors except the potential for fraud was higher than ever seen before. Our cameras focused on irregularities in Florida and other states between reported results and exit poll results. Harassment and voter intimidation was a frequent sight at polling places -- and we've got it all on film.

Our award winning team is a mix of the musical masters and film magic-makers of Peopletopeople.tv, and one of the inventors of the political Flash attack ad - not only did Micheal Stinson of Takebackthemedia.com win a Hollywood award for his animation work (which is included in the film, bringing Monty-Pythonish humor to the subject) but the combined team created one of the 14 ads chosen from 1600 entries in the MoveOn.org "Bush in 30 seconds" contest.

Plus, Micheal has been seen fighting for our rights on cable news, including MSNBC, CNN, and FOX's The O'Reilly Factor show.
In short, we deliver - and we have a lot of fun doing it along the way. We get the whole story.

***

Hey, Bev isn't the only one the electronic voting fraud trail - Take Back the Media.com has been travelling for the last year working on this film - just back from Florida and busy adding the animation touches to our film..

Please hop on over to Buzzflash, read all about our film and help us all get the word out as we all work to save our democracy - have an "Electile Dysfunction" house party!

http://www.buzzflash.com/premiums/04/11/pre04073.html

[bmoney07]

54. How about this

I'm a blackboxvoting memeber and here is what we are saying:

"Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."


I was at first looking at PMing this for private use, but I think its time the public see this.
Interestingly enough, Dr. Piotr Blass is not only significant and real, he has alot of resume background in Michigan state, and otherwise, is connected to a very interesting corporation known as CyberNET Venturs Inc.(which manages all of Cybernets divisions...)

In the allegations report, a certain vendor described that such a network company was financing the operation through Mel Sembler and a few other bad eggs connected to the head of the game map. Another company was described as giving source to certain code.....Turns out CyberN is indeed an open source code distributor to several organizations, ultimately not even limited to voting companies. Also turns out an employee named Guitterez works(or had worked) there and created actual databases for elections across the USA and easily the globe, that are certainly not MS Access.

http://engrm.com/personnel/gutierrez-alan/experiential.html

Also interestingly enough, the state and F.B.I just barely seized CyberNET Ventures Inc capital in Michigan state for all of its computer systems. Every single last one, in one large effort, and refused to state why they had them seized and impounded.

More interesting though, is the fact that if you look and sniff around it appears CyberNET (who is also, direct finance of the white house and ambassador) had its systems freely distributed among universities...Schools, teaching sites, and so on everywhere. And more interestingly also worldwide.

But the most interesting part of all, is CyberNET's own interest in Diebold, and helping them out of some dirty circumstances....

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mk1BGFoCVrkJ:www.eff.org/legal/ISP_liability/OPG_v_Diebold/20040930_Diebold_SJ_Order.pdf+CyberNET+Ventures+Inc.+has+contract+with+Diebold&hl=en&start=1

And of course on top of all this, ChoicePoint government who controls voting name rosters, being issued by Jeb Bush to directly not only take off the felon purge lists, but keep them as well. Authorities issued repeated orders for him to turn it off and instead he saved all the names to some hard drive and area around there in order to use them all again later.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65377,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

What I'm seeing here, is clearly one of the ugliest watergate level scandals there ever was, and then of course the media has no idea of anything. So what can we do about it?

Here is what: We need an astute group of search experts, to find any, and every single tie the one and only CyberNET Ventures has with this issue because it leads straight to the top and back to the whitehouse. So far much information seems to be missing (blank pages) so experts who have background in information management, do your part! Search all the archives and find any and all reports and links of these companies together, linkes to ChoicePoint, links between each party and so on and get this rotton egg hard broiled!

Of course the vote totals were flipped: Using obvious malicious code of rigged names across the board, some that possibly don't even exist (see: evicted felon/citizen roster) and even adoptions for all anyone knows. And the way to make this come full force as the biggest dump ever seen is do an information sweep, and find every single leaked report there possibly is, get it recorded! Get it archived!

We can help the federal authorities and team do their job, Ireland even said this on the radio. And yes I'm going to say something some would start turning their heads in at: The Fisher story is most likely a correct, variable assessment and main report of what went on.

Schools involved clearly are not the only ones as Cal Tech and universities constantly stating the exit polls mean nothing, are all possible suspects too. I would leave no stone unturned and do your part as citizens to call it out.

Oh and good luck, we have democracy at risk here.

"Nothing is foolproof. Footprints are real."



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Auditors
Member since Nov-13-04
9 posts Nov-18-04, 02:14 AM (PST)

1. "RE: Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."
In response to message #0

LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-04 AT 02:17 AM (PST)

Would any republican doubt Cal Tech MIT could be involved and are also hackers in this operation?

Think again: The truth comes out, and it lands right on your face.


"6 MILLION VOTES LOST in 2000 ?!?!?
by lawnorder

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/18/45344/380

Thu Nov 18th, 2004 at 04:53:44 CDT

Did you see anything on the media about a Caltech study showing 6 MILLION VOTES LOST in 2000 ?!?!?!

Who is this Caltech / MIT Voting group?

On 2000 they were about this...

On 2004 they are about COVER -UP:
MSNBC -Rolled up papers at fifty places (Keith Olbermann)
SECAUCUS-- You know it's bad when the two sides start throwing professors at one another.

Two conflicting scholarly studies on the variance between the national exit polling and the presidential election results, are flying across the Internet.. One, from the University of Pennsylvania.. suggests the actual statistical odds that the exit polling was that wrong in the battleground states were 250,000,000 to one.

The other, from a voting project managed by CalTech and MIT, says that .. on a state-by-state basis,

A fellow Kossack had noticed the Cal Tech study was "weird" and Caltech is involved with ES & S and the extreme right wing

Another MIT report believes in fraud
The Blue Lemur - Progressive Politics and Media News
Odds of Bush gaining by 4 percent in all exit polling states 1 in 50,000; Evoting/paper variance not found to be significant

A statistical analysis of exit polling conducted for RAW STORY by a former MIT mathematics professor has found the odds of Bush making an average gain of 4.15 percent among all 16 states included in the media's 4 p.m. exit polling is 1 in 50,000, or .002 percent.

The analysis, conducted by former Associate Professor of Mathematics David Anick, also ruled out any significance of a variance between electronic balloting and paper ballot states, which RAW STORY reported last week.

The Cal Tech/MIT paper
Another Kossack summarizes it's weak numbers
Caltech/MIT Voting Technology Project: Flip-Flop, Flip-Flop, Flip-Flop
I thought it odd that the November 11, 2004 Caltech/MIT .. report .. would focus so narrowly on justifying the discrepancy between the exit polls and the actual vote without ever mentioning that the openness to fraud of the electronic vote tabulation that they delineated

The paper was very weak on statistics and facts... Apparently only one person worked on it.

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/11/wo_selker111704.asp

Selker picked up the work of a REAL statistics pro (The math professor at MIT who wrote the blue lemur article above), massaged the numbers a little, added some tales about HIS experience as "observer of elections" and came up with some lame conclusions and some pretty looking Lotus graphics... And worse, he didn't even sign his paper, i.e, he must be embarassed of it... I wasn't impressed at all!

As dennisv had already pointed out here on Kos, that study is very fishy.. And Caltech is involved with ES & S
"A longtime friend of Caltech, the Ahmanson Foundation has supported the Institute's capital projects, student financial aid, and endowment for academic research and a humanities fellowship...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

"In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S's originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-Right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68% ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family's ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles".

"According to Group Watch, in the 1980s Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. was a member of the highly secretive far-Right Council for National Policy, an organization that included Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, Major General John K. Singlaub and other Iran-Contra scandal notables, as well as former Klan members like Richard Shoff. Ahmanson, heir to a savings and loan fortune, is little reported on in the mainstream U.S. press. But, English papers like The Independent are a bit more forthcoming on Ahmanson's politics"

Ted Selker Associate Professor of Media Arts and Sciences
Group: Context-Aware Computing
Office: E15-323
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: selker@media
addresses are formatted [e-mail]
URL: http://www.media.mit.edu/~selker

Biography

Ted Selker heads the Media Lab's Context-Aware Computing group. His research has contributed to hundreds of products ranging from notebook computers to operating systems. He is known for the design of the "TrackPoint III" in-keyboard pointing device now found in Compaq, Fujitsu, HP, IBM, Sony, TI, and other computers; for creating the "COACH" adaptive agent that improves user performance (Warp Guides in OS/2); and for the design of the 755CV notebook computer that doubles as an LCD projector.


The curious source of the Caltech/MIT voting project website
Here's something you rarely see on a web site: An entire news article "hidden" on the page source as comments..
See for yourself: Click in this link http://www.vote.caltech.edu/
and try to view "source" or "Page source" on your browser..
Scrolling dow a bit, you should see this

After that line that clearly says "!-- / DELETE ME LATER" you can see the ENTIRE 2000 press release on their study on voter disenfranchisement in Florida.

So the source of http://www.vote.caltech.edu/ includes this as comments :"!-- / DELETE ME LATER" and DOESNT SHOW the text below
A Preliminary Assessment of the Reliability of Existing Voting Equipment

July 16, 2001

Up to 6 million votes lost in 2000 presidential election, Voting Technology Project reveals

PASADENA, Calif.- Though over 100 million Americans went to the polls on election day 2000, as many as 6 million might just have well have spent the day fishing. Researchers at Caltech and MIT call these "lost votes" and think the number of uncounted votes could easily be cut by more than half in the 2004 election with just three simple reforms

To read the rest of the hidden report clean of "computer giberish" go to

http://www.texasturkey.us/backup/Nov2/Cal-tech_2001_assessment___.html

We did our best, TRUST US e-vote petition from Cal-Tech/MIT vote project
"We did our best so you should believe us" is the gist of it. It got an "underwhelming" total of... less than 20 signatures!"

Friend sent that information over to me. Who's the texas turkey? Cal Tech MIT, Bay Point, and other university schools who were used in the 2004 kill democracy campaign }> }>

This is not a partisan issue folks, this is massive widespread crime that effects all of us. Period, and until pounded to the wall on all sides democracy is dead.

"Nothing is foolproof. Footprints are real."

[Gregorian]

58. It's not going to happen, folks. BUT...

We tried with evoting. Noone listened. Or rather, noone picked it up and displayed it in the media.

I've had my fingers crossed that we would make progress. But I now know what is going on. I listened to the author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" lastnight. That said it all. They wouldn't do anything to leave clues or evidence. They wouldn't dare ruin something they've been working on for forty years. Neocons gone wild! They own the media, so we won't be seeing this on tv. They own the world. Forget it folks.

Having said that, we are the powerful. We are the masses. And our efforts were, and are, invaluable. They made a difference. And I truly believe that we are closer than ever to unveiling the evil. The problem is, they've gone on from stealing oil, to stealing the next valuable commodity. Water. So by the time we are done chasing their trail of clues, they will be in the next henhouse.

But we are getting smarter. :)