Would we rather have fraud?

[baba]

I am still torn over this question. It seems like there is no good answer. On one hand, if we believe that Bush won fair and square, we have to believe that there are people out there that actually agree with his right-wing agenda. Scary. On the other hand, if we believe there was fraud, well, that is even scarier. Our democracy is at stake. We're in a double bind of sorts-either way, we lose.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

1. Yes, we'd rather have fraud.

How did you know?

[Hobbes199]

2. No, I would rather not have fraud.

With no fraud we really could start to fix things in 4 years. With fraud then i don't see a way this will ever be fixed.

[dewaldd]

4. door-to-door ballot initiative to demand hand-counting of ballots

It will be a lot of hard work, but it will get our country back.

[Hobbes199]

5. Stages of recovery...

I know I did it backwards, but in the first few days after the election, when I still believed it was a fair election, I realized that I needed to learn more about this greater half of our nation, who not only strongly believe in God, but can ignore all sorts of other facts based on that belief. I was in the minority, and there seemed some basic ways to deal with it — move out of the country, or try to reclaim the country by moving to Texas or Florida. Then I came across the pictures of the swing state results with scanned ballots showing the wide discrepancy, and I abandoned all thoughts of letting this go unanswered. I've been here and angry ever since.

I assume the next stage will be denial, when nothing at all is proven, and there's nothing I can do about it.

[JD Lau]

11. I'm afraid I never believed it was a fair election, and it had nothing

to do with exit polls or polls of any kind. It was things I saw in my dreams and my intuitive feel of situations. So when all of a sudden there was this incredible shift and all of a sudden everyone was whooping for Bush and we'd lost and conceded...and when the data started appearing...and everyone started looking at all the clues leading up to possible election manipulation...then I changed my perception.

but...your last sentence:

"I assume the next stage will be denial, when nothing at all is proven, and there's nothing I can do about it."

to me, doesn't explain, then, why you are here participating in this forum. I don't think denial is going to make you feel a BIT better. For I do believe there is something we can "do about it". But that is where the really HARD work is going to be.

I'm not angry any more, and I am not in despair as I was for about a week, crying all day and all night the day the election was conceded. Now, I feel like I must give meaning to my life as a US citizen in helping to facilitate Fair Voting and Fair Election practices. How that's going to happen...I do not know at this point, but I am here and I am still learning. I still have my will and I still have a powerful drive to get this to happen.

Peace to you.

[Hobbes199]

12. Absolutely.

I was just assuming I'm not in denial now, and that this anger is founded. I'm sticking it out.

[dewaldd]

3. rather have fraud. The world will forgive us then.

[Iceburg]

7. The probabilty of forgiving is greater -- not absolute

What 'ta hell have Americans been doing for the past 4 years knowing that the last election was in dispute?

At what point (if ever) do the real Amercians come out of their cubicles and fully realize the damage done in the past 4 years in YOUR name????

Yeah, yeah -- in the past 4 years we foreigners took comfort that the "ADMIN" was to blame.

I'm not so sure anymore ... just take a look at DU's latest breaking news:

-Rice has minor surgery on Friday
-American Airlines Removes MD-80 Pillows
-Kmart to Acquire Sears in $11 Billion Deal
-Man With Pot Given Choice: Jail or Military
...

Show us a sign that you care...

[genieroze]

6. Rather not have fraud

because at least in 2006 we would have a chance. There is fraud and it's obvious to anyone with a brain. Most of the main stream media is filled with a bunch of air headed tarts. Our politicians are just to chicken sh*t to admit it but they know there was fraud. The sad part is that if they don't get off their arses and do something they will be out of a job in two or four years. What makes them think the the republicans can't rig this crap in the blue states. I think they already have made inroads in the blue states.

[savetheuniverse]

8. A Nation Divided

The country is divided now not along party lines: it is divided between those who know the truth and those who believe the lies. Even without more of the kind of evidence our hero Bev Harris is turning up in her dumpster dives, there is a preponderance of evidence to PROVE beyond a shadow of doubt that it was not fair. The people who believe the lies don't want to believe it until they see it re-cast as a Law and Order or West Wing episode. It is our job to get them to believe the truth.

[nashville_brook]

9. there's a third option

we pay attention to the data points as they appear and rationally explore their meaning regardless of the potential outcome.

[Guava Jelly]

10. Maybe fraud insinuted but votes recovered to rid us of the chimp

would be better.
we want a clean win where the house and senate doesnt get involved...
because if the house and senate have a vote..no matter what we will loose

[Hobbes199]

14. Yes

I guess my order of preference would be:

1) Bush out
2) Fraud proven
3) We're screwed
4) We're permanently screwed

[Celebration]

13. fraud-yes

I admit I want fraud because it would confirm my world view, and my feelings about this administration. I also like things to be rational around me, and fraud makes sense to me, given the exit poll data, and the apparent ease with which electronic voting machines can be manipulated.

I would be disappointed if it were definitively proven that no outright vote rigging occurred. Of course for sure all the subtler type stuff happened, fewer voting machines in the poor areas, etc. All that is enough to throw an election.

I want something much greater to have happened here. I want the whole of the administration this next four years being consumed with fighting off the emerging pieces of the puzzle that come out, crippling it from doing even more damage to the country. I want them raked over the coals-- only because they deserve it. However, in the next few days I am going to try some meditation techniques to try to get over this, because I don't think it is particularly good for my mental health.

[glitch]

15. I agree with you and welcome to DU

I would rather think that known fraudsters (BCCI, Iran/Contra, Savings & Loan Bailout) have committed yet another fraud than think that a majority of American voters are trending fascist.

[savetheuniverse]

16. Fraud vs. Fair

in the light years since this was first written, it's almost gone under in the e-luge...but perhaps of interest on this subject

http://www.opednews.com/friedberg_111104_america.htm

[MarkusQ]

17. We want the truth

The truth is the only thing that can help anyone in the long term.

If there was fraud, we want to know. There is a lot to be done if there was massive fraud in the past election, and the sooner we know and get started, the better.

If there was not fraud, we want to know. It means that there is a lot of work to be done, and the sooner we know and get started, the better.

The problem is, choosing the correct course of action depends on knowing the truth. Until we know the truth, we can not act wisely.

-- MarkusQ