Germany says fraud, slams our media

[genieroze]

DW-WORLD readers this week commented on the US elections, Colin Powell's resignation, the state of forests, the integration of immigrants and the need to learn foreign languages.



US elections



Do I think the US elections were "free and fair"? Absolutely not. Too bad the mainstream media in US has dropped the issue of possible election fraud far too quickly and independent media does not get enough attention in Europe, so, we Europeans have no way to get sufficient and correct information from the US - once again. -- Jan Mukka, Finland



The US has "locked down" the media from talking about the voter fraud matter that has been developed in Florida, Ohio, and New Hampshire. The data is compelling and has been done by statisticians. The potential for hacking was clearly recognized by responsible academic institutions such as the Johns Hopkins computer security program. With our US press lockdown, we will be using the same mobilization efforts we created to get out the vote. --Nancy, Minnesota



US elections cost as much as some small country's income. Do you think for that much money involved it will be a "free and fair" winning or rather winning for all cost? -- Andrzej, San Francisco



Bush supporters celebrate the president's re-election on Nov. 3
I am convinced that the US election was stolen. I state that on the basis of a lot of reading for long before Nov. 2, reports about the exit polls, and discussion with people who are expert in this type of computer work. I am also familiar with the fundamentalist Christians who are the rank-and-file for right-wing fanatics. I dread the future for which this will have been history in the making. -- Madeleine Savit, an American living in Australia

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1399708,00.html

[Cha]

1. Nice to have this in common with

our Europeon Friends!

[Clark2008]

2. And Germany should know a thing or two

about fascism and restricted access.

I hope the rest of Europe follows through with the German assertion.

[gauguin57]

3. They must have noticed the smoke from

our Reichstag on fire.

[ailsagirl]

4. Let's hear it for Deutschland!!

I'd love it if the whole international media started using the "f" word. Maybe they are??

They know the score.

[shakerbaker]

5. We Know how they felt in 1933

Let's STOP IT NOW!!!!:nuke:

GO GERMANY!!! We LOVE YA!!

[JudyM]

7. How did they feel? They were more than happy to jump on the Jews

as scapegoats for their unhappiness, and support their near-obliteration. Some, certainly, recognized the problems, and even risked their own lives, but the vast majority of Germans went along with hitler as part of a mob mentality. So I'm not certain what you mean...?

[Pooka Fey]

12. I heard only 20% of Germans were Nazi party members

during that period. That 20% dragged the whole country into the abyss.

[JudyM]

17. Only 23% of our country is fundies. Another 28% went along with

his agenda. In germany it was worse because people saw their neighbors losing their rights, having their businesses trashed and ultimately carted away. They saw and they did not stand up to it. Right - they were not all nazi party members. They were 'merely' complicit in the nazi party's actions.

[savetheuniverse]

15. This is the power of PROPAGANDA

The Germans, for many years prior, had been inundated with the same kind of propaganda that has turned "good christians" in this country into a lunatic mob of haters. The horror of the whole thing is that the repugs propaganda machine was nowhere NEAR what we've got going on here. Let's stop beating up the "little guys" and the "man on the street" -- they too are victims of the BS media propagandists. If we can stop the machine, they will eventually come back to their senses.

[JudyM]

18. They were not victims! They were complicit.

The moral is to not roll over, and I think we all agree on that.

[glitch]

19. Some of them were, just as some of us are. That is the lesson, Germans

weren't special, Americans aren't special, no one is immune, it can happen here.

[dewaldd]

24. Most were victims. Goebbels controlled the media. How could they know?

My mother grew up in Nazi Germany. I never thought that I would be raising my daughter in a fascist state, too.

[rman]

20. as much as Americans today are jumping on Bush's war bandwagon

"went along with" is not equal to "happy to jump on"

The German people did "jump on the jews as scapegoats" as much as Americans today are jumping on Bush's war bandwagon.
Deception and implicit threats of violence go a long way towards making The People "go along with" whatever group is in power.

In this case "they" is way to much of a generalisation.

[TexasChick]

9. OMG! Darn, you beat me to it! I was just about to say the same thing!

Welcome to Nazi America 2004!

[genieroze]

6. Maybe we should write to these people and tell them about DU

[genieroze]

8. Kick

Let's start contacting the foreign media

[savetheuniverse]

11. More german links

I've been doing all I can to get people in Germany on this

Here is an article from the Zeit, a highly reputable weekly--sorry I simply don't have time to translate and/or paraphrase (I've been neglecting an 800 page translation project that I REALLY must get back to, and looks like I have another one coming in). If someone did a Babelfish and our friend Dem in Munich doctored it up after that, we'd have a good "draft"--anyway this piece does anything BUT dismiss us

http://www.zeit.de/2004/45/us_fischermann

I haven't yet read this one from this Austrian MSM paper

http://derstandard.at/?url=/?id=1841616

[savetheuniverse]

14. More german media--national news broadcast

ARD (German national TV station) is reporting it on their news broadcast
Here's the video, which I can't get to come up because I'm too much of an internet idiot

Fraud in Ohio?
http://www.tagesschau.de/aktuell/meldungen/0,1185,OID3805014_TYP6_THE_NAV_REF1_BAB,00.html

Moderators -- there's a similar thread on German media floating around: wouldn't it be good to combine these in a title st like GERMAN MEDIA?

my german friends are sending me this stuff as soon as it hits.

Since the rest of my life seems to have come crashing down around me anyway in the last 6 days, I guess I could work with someone on this.

I don't even know how to use Babelfish, for example, (why should I? German is the same as English to me)

And I can't figure out how to get this damn video to work--but I could help with translations of this stuff (i.e. if someone does a babelfish translation, I can correct it; if I could get this damn video to play on my machine, I could provide a summary in English)

[Woody Box]

16. This tagesschau story is MUCH better

than the (identical) Spiegel, Zeit, and Stern stories, much more on the facts (f.i. they mention the alleged terror threat in Warren County).

The guy who's written it - Carsten Schmiesser - is the same one I heard on radio this morning.

[Munich Democrat]

22. Tagesschau: English Translation

From www.tagesschau.de: Translated by Google and corrected the worst mistakes. I hope it's understandable for you.


After the US presidential elections

The Greens want to recount votes in Ohio

By Carsten Schmiester, NDR Hoerfunkstudio Washington

"A prediction is not possible", Wolf Blitzer of the news station CNN said at the election night, "that has never occurred before". Neither Democrat-Blue nor Republican-Red, the state of Ohio remained undecided Green for hours, before in the morning of the 3rd of November the till today only provisional, but crucial result was published: With approximately 140,000 votes a razor-thin majority for Bush, in which many do not want to believe. Even if the large stations and newspapers of the country behave as if nothing had happened - in local newspapers and in the Internet reports and rumors about presumed electoral fraud spread. Near the capital Columbus seven times the number of votes for Bush were counted than there are voters. In the electoral district of Warren County officals locked themselves in to count the votes, allegedly for reasons of homeland security: Bush triumphed by a surprising margin. In another district the electronic voting machines registered 25 million invalid votes, the result was cancelled - votes from Mahoning were neglected.
Now all votes from Ohio are to be recounted. None of the large parties wants that, probably for fear of a disaster as four years ago in Florida, but David Cobb, hopelessly beaten candidate of the Greens, sees that differently. He is entitled to require a second counting as long as he pays a 113,000 dollar fee. The money is there, says Cobb speaker Blair Bobier at the radio station "npr". "There are many reports about irregularities in Ohio", says Bobier, "we want to protect the reliability of the election system." At the latest at the beginning of December Ohio must present the official election result, including the "provisional ballots", according to estimations approximately 150,000, which are examined now. After that the Greens want to request the recount. "The election 2000 was ridiculous, look at Florida, ridiculous just as what happens now here in Ohio. There is no chance to check the results of the electronic voting machines, that has to change before the next election", says Bobier. They are concerned to set a signal, but don't expect a reversal of the election result. However, nobody can be sure that in the end the winner of Ohio and thus the winner by electoral votes - might be named John Kerry. It may sound strange, but that would be a nightmare for him, because George Bush would still lead by more than three million votes. Bush would make exactly the reproach which was made against him four years ago: That Kerry sneaked into the office against the will of the people. At best, everything remains like it is, states Kerry's legal adviser in Ohio, Daniel Hoffheimer, but leaves a small back door open: "The people have decided in Ohio. There were problems, but those were solved as far as possible. On the other hand: Naturally, we will still keep a look on the state."

[newyawker99]

23. Hi Munich Democrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[NVMojo]

10. only true sufferers of hemrhoids can truly tell someone else

to loosen up. Go Germany.

[anamandujano]

13. I sent a thank you and

a plea to keep up the coverage, plus a link

2004 COLLECTED VOTE FRAUD STORIES

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html


Also mentioned DU and the forums.

[Willy Lee]

21. What do you expect from Old Europe?

I love 'em!!!

[bluedonkey]

25. I'm so happy

to hear I'm not the only one writing emails to germany and others in 'old Europe'.Glad they picked it up!

[go west young man]

26. The fact that our media won't cover the election fraud at all

is world news in itself. We need to be mass emailing news outlets all over the globe to get the word out!

[Munich Democrat]

27. German "Spiegel" covers Berkeley report (English translation)

From www.spiegel.de. Again a Google translation with the worst passages corrected.


Bush's automatic victory

Now also in Florida

Following reports over irregularities during the US presidential election in the important swing state of Ohio, now there are also doubts about the result in Florida. According to an investigation of the renowned University of Berkeley the electronic voting machines brought a clear advantage for President Bush. According to the study, the computer-controlled voting system gave George W. Bush 260,000 more votes than he had been supposed to get. A group of graduate students of the Berkeley University achieved this result by statistic analysis, published by the magazine "Wired". The scientists requested the Florida authorities to examine the results of their study and the casting of votes in the electoral districts in which touchscreens were used as voting machines. According to the scientists, their goal is not to contest the result of the election. Bush had a 350,000 votes lead over his challenger John Kerry. The intention of the study is to refer to the defectiveness of the paperless machines, according to "Wired".

The analysis of the experts points out an interesting difference: In districts with touchscreen voting machines, Bush got significantly more votes than in districts with other systems - independent from the social structure of the districts, like of average income, race and age. The scientists determined this statistic deviation in 15 districts. In districts with other voting modalities there were no appropriate deviations. Particularly interesting thereby: The districts in which the deviations were extremely noticeable were highly democratic districts. The statistical probability that such a result develops coincidentally is less than one to thousand, the paper quotes sociology professor Michael Hout.

Many of the assigned touchscreen machines were developed by the company "Election Systems & Software". The enterprise named the results of the Berkeley study as hypothetical and rejected the reproaches. "ES&S Touchscreen voting systems have been tested in thousands of elections nation-wide", a speaker of the company said to "Wired". In its report the paper also quotes Susan Van Houten, co-founder of the "Palm Beach Coalition for Election Reforms". She showed to be not surprised by the Berkeley result and told of voters who had communicated irregularities. So, inhabitants of her district in which devices of the company "Sequoia" were used, told of strange experiences: The screen indicated a vote for Bush to voters who had voted for Kerry. Van Houten says that she had been informed by computer specialists that it is relatively easy to program a system in such a way that for example each 50th vote goes to Bush automatically. Such a manipulation wouldn't be noticed very quickly.

The state government in Florida stated that the report was not available to them and therefore won't be commentated. Florida had however one of the strictest licensing procedures of the nation for such devices. "After a system is certified, each individual equipment is examined and sealed. The seal is not broken up until election day", said the spokeswoman of the authority. However, the Touchscreen devices stood in twilight already last year when numerous computer specialists had stated that the machines were susceptible to hacker attacks and manipulation. Reports like that from "Wired" naturally support the thesis of numerous Kerry supporters who regard also this election as stolen by Bush. But this year, despite some irregularities the results are so clear that even after the subtraction of the wrongly counted votes George W. Bush would remain the winner of the election. Bush's lead over his challenger amounts to 3.5 million votes, and that there could have been a manipulation so exorbitant, - despite the multiplicity of the critics - so far still nobody stated.

By Lisa Erdmann