Keith Olberman blogs about today's Berkeley presser -Nov18

[Rose Siding]

and more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6368819

[rockedthevoteinMA]

1. Oh man things are popping up everywhere in OH n/t

[Flint-oid]

10. what's n/t

[hang a left]

15. no text

kinda like eom end of message

[Skinner]

2. Great read.

Thanks for posting it.

[McCamy Taylor]

3. happy happy! joy joy!

[thephaseshift]

14. eh?

What's the huge excitement guys? So far we don't yet know what this Michael Hout from UC Berkeley is going to say...probably he's just going to regurgitate the shifts already noted by Kathy Dopp. With some luck he'll give evidence as to why the Dixiecrat theory doesn't suffice to explain FL, but I doubt it to be honest. I think at this point nobody really knows to what extent the Dixiecrats played a role in the Bush-bias...but it may explain a lot.

I'd like to see other studies comparing Bush-bias for touchscreen versus optical-scan machines. Why hasn't anyone done this? If we keep on pointing to the FL stats we'll never know how important the Dixiecrat effect really is. If the bias exists in other states with both types of machines but without 'Dixiecrats' then we'd have a confirmation that there's a problem.

What's happening in NH? Nader et al's recount/audio? Anyone?

As for OH, so far we have nothing but a rash of isolated incidents. Not enough to bring us into the hundred-or-more-thousand extra Kerry votes yet. We need more, bigger. It may be that the Repugs' overall strategy was to set up the voting day in such a way as to suppress the dem vote in many different ways, spread all over the place, but no MASSIVE electronic fraud. I just don't know anymore. I'm sure they cheated big time, but the point is it may be hard to convey the sense of a consistent FRAUD PLAN to the media and general public, who are all going to remember it as chaotic but not obviously dishonest.

So far we don't have a smoking gun that could even begin to affect the presidential outcome. I'm keeping my fingers crossed we'll find one or more though...wait for the actual recounts and more of Bev Harris' amazing work to come in. Patience! There's still plenty to do.

I know, it ain't easy.

[Sideways]

27. Come On Man Is That The Best Ya Got?

I believe you left out the obligatory Berkeley as Commie-ville in your bulls er post. Bye.

[Lizzie Borden]

What we have here...

ia VOTER FRAUD AND IT MATTERS!!!

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fortunato]

46. If O'Reilly can dish it out...

... then he can afford to take a few lumps as well.

I still remember him "inviting" some pacifist evangelicals on the show a week or two before the election, and instead of trying to understand their viewpoint so that viewers could make up their own minds on the issue, he literally ridiculed and lambasted them nationally, on the air. He was vitriolic, relentless, and (ultimately) pathetic.

(To their credit, these guys stuck to their guns and didn't stoop to his level of insult.)

The guy's a pit bull. He can afford to take a few shots -- and in fact probably deserves them. (Go, Keith!)

[Protect The Vote]

52. Chris Matthews?!

"If Chris Matthews was running with the story I'd listen." - Poll Ally

Olbermann's one of the only MSM covering this story - one that can truly call himself a journalist. I don't care if he's a previous sportscaster or dog catcher.

Matthews (and most of the rest of the MSM) has his head too far up Bush's ass to even see the story. I'm surprised he can even breath.

PTV

[Coltrane]

127. Chris Matthews is covering the story/Video clip

http://www.crooksandliars.com/ has the segment posted from Monday 11/15
He did a little work and had JOe Trippi in tot talk about the internet's role in getting the story going!

[Cobalt Violet]

60. Poll Ally .... we already know your angle.

"The problem for Kerry in Florida was that the republicans just did a better job turning out the vote." By Poll Ally

[zoeb]

80. it appears that things are getting dull in

freeperville...we seemed to be attracking trolls.

[Willy Lee]

69. Sounds like Poll Alley is getting a little nervous

Worried your man may have won illegally??? Might be impeached?? If I were you I'd be worried too.

[aquart]

96. Maybe you wanna go over the whole BBV thing.

You seem to have missed some critical information.

[tbuddha]

83. thephaseshift - read the study before making your judgement

duh..

[EOTE]

110. Maybe a recount will provide the smoking gun

[montanacowboy]

4. I just sent Keith an email

what would we do without him? he is the ONLY person out there reporting on this voter fraud - we need to support Keith all we can.

[Pithy Cherub]

5. KO swims effortlessly, while the rest

of the 'press' are still holding their bated breath and keeping their noses under water. Thanks for posting!

[Straight Shooter]

6. Keith is validating a supposition I mentioned on DU a couple nights ago

What do the state undercounts in Ohio look like? Did they reduce Bush’s margin of victory? Did they eliminate votes for Kerry? What the hell happened?

I had questioned if we were looking too hard at votes switching from Kerry to bush, and not looking hard enough at the possibility of votes for Kerry never being registered/counted in the first place.

And I hope that U.C. Berkely team discredits completely the Dixiecrat theory and the optical scan "being a paper trail" argument.

[Woo]

12. At the danger of being slapped...

Despite what Mr. Olbermann says, who I love and after thinking about his blog yesterday is probably right in his conclusions to that point -- Ya gotta give merit to Jeff Fisher's story -- I'm not saying it's all right/true but what he was telling us was going to happen BEFORE November 2nd is happening right before our eyes --

In the muddled explanation of how the republicans would steal this election -- he lays out two scenarios -- one in which would systematically give votes to Bush through felon list and the other which is covered extensively in Keith's blog today -- over and under votes -- programming that would record over and under vote and could be manipulated to favour a particular candidate --

They didn't get these big totals by just adding votes -- they took away votes for us too --

So I've said it once... I'll say it again -- Jeff Fisher's story holds water, sorry... as kooky as he might be, it does.

[chomskysright]

49. I don't think Fisher is kooky

...having been told by an editor already today that I have fired so many e mails at him that I appear to be nuts, I have to challenge people how fisher might feel: he probably has lots of people calling him kooky and nuts; let's just say that he's invested....

[bmoney07]

65. Agree

Something I have been saying on BBV for 2 weeks,

Why would 6 seated congressional leaders risk political suicide in asking the GAO to investigate his story, unless there was something to the Jeff Fisher story. :C

[m berst]

117. wow

A whole flock of Jeff Fisher fans.

[KittyWampus]

68. Jeff Fisher Was Probably Fed Info From Rove Operatives Ala Dan Rather

He already discredited himself by saying he was in touch w/Nader's campaign.

Gee, and Nader is going for the recount in NH.

Now WHO would want to make Nader and all those Investigating Fraud look like unbalanced individiuals?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

[monroncrief]

121. Oh for God's sake

I am so tired of hearing this theory! Fisher has been out there for a couple of years now talking about these teen hackers and who these shadowy figures are. Alot of what he is saying has been validated. Yeah, y'know maybe he isn't lily white and has some strikes against him, but if that's your prerequisite, then you must think Greg Palast is a Rovian plant as well...

[nashville_brook]

64. no slap

fisher might be able to point us int he right direction -- but we need another source given his weirdness.

as a former floridian, i have no problem believing the story he puts forth on the juvenile hacker thing -- but even if that story turns out to be true, it muddies his claims.

one more source on the fisher thing would be great.

[Virginian]

124. I would be suspicious if there were NO undervotes.

My guess would be that the default was set to Bush.

[Clark2008]

105. The Berkley Team did find something different

that had nothing to do with the Dixiecrats, in so far as I can tell:

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97614p2,00.html

"No matter how many factors and variables we took into consideration, the significant correlation in the votes for President Bush and electronic voting cannot be explained," said Hout. "The study shows that a county's use of electronic voting resulted in a disproportionate increase in votes for President Bush. There is just a trivial probability of evidence like this appearing in a population where the true difference is zero -- less than one in a thousand chances."

[Roland99]

7. Big influx of voting problems today, eh?

[lizzieforkerry]

8. He is great!

[xchrom]

9. hopeful

[buddysmellgood]

11. Remember how pissed off they got about tea in Boston that one time?

People should be much, much more angry about this bullshit.

[milkyway]

13. I hate the way he portrays the different studies. He makes it into some

kind of game of two equal sides that no layman could possibly figure out.

But that's not true. The CalTech fake study was crap. They used some of the later "weighted" numbers that were adjusted to more closely reflect the actual vote count. Then they use these numbers to show the exit polls were close to the actual vote count. WTF? Of course they're close. They were changed to make them close.

They didn't even explain where they got their exit data from, and had no discussion of the weighting that was done to the late exit poll numbers. They also had the nerve to complain about another analysis done by somebody else that they didn't say where their data came from.

Near the end, they had a totally bizarre statement that you can't be sure that exit polls are accurate unless you polled every single voter. WTF? That's what polling and statistical sampling are all about. It was a fraudulent non-study.

Also, the study by Steve Freeman at UofPenn was a very thorough study, backed up by documented evidence. It was about 28 pages long, compared to the junk study by CalTech that was 2 pages long (if I'm remembering correctly).

But just when I'm feeling pissy toward Olbermann, he more than redeems himself with the coverage of Ohio. And he doesn't just pass along what's being reported--he actually makes some very astute points of his own.

He speaks of some counties that bush won as having a lot of uncounted undervotes. This seems to refute the charge that the machines with a lot of undervotes were biased against Kerry. But then Keith says this: "or did the precincts wind up voting for Bush because more than a quarter of the ballots had no valid presidential vote?" (In other words, bush won those precincts because Kerry votes were deliberately undercounted.)

Great point, Keith. Now get your crack staff on this and see if you can answer this question.

[drm604]

16. milkyway, you should email Olberman with your observations

You should email Olberman with your observations about the Caltech and Freeman studies.

[GetTheRightVote]

17. What do you think about my letter, any suggestion for improvement

I am going to send the following letter to the news media,
do you have any suggestion for improvement before I send it out ???

I am a little upset at our Media Dogs, are they yellow or what ??

November 18, 2004

News Channels/News Papers

To Whom It May Concern:

The Democratic Party of Ohio is stepping up to the plate for the citizens they represent
in their home state. I am so pride of them because I am sure it will be an up hill battle for them and yet they are willing to take on the fight for freedom in the face of a tryant. Yes, it is about freedom, the freedom to vote, the freedom to be free of prejudice/racist acts, and the right to an election free of the shallowness of individuals who lack a conscious. We have a judicial system based on the fact that if a crime is committed then it is punished yet that same system fails in the multiple cases of suppression and the stealing of votes by incorrectly counting the votes made by the good citizens of this great nation. At least, the votes cast by those got thru all the harassment placed in their path to their voting completion and satisfaction.

Now, to the real news, your lack of coverage of such an important event in the history of our huge country. Your courage has either deserted you in the face of our corrupt political system or there are other not so nice values that you live by and if this is the case you should leave my country now, today is not soon enough. Your purpose in this great nation is to be the watch dogs over our corrupt legislators. It is your grave duty to stop them in their tracks where they stand and to shine the light of truth upon them. You have failed the American Public in your duties as our soldiers give of their lives over in Iraq. We have lost enough, so are their lives not worthy of your attention. They die for a country filled with News Reporters who cover up for those who are in power and are abusing that power and abusing the American Public in the process. But do not be concerned because you are empowering a whole section of this country’s citizens who taken up the role of watch dogs for you. You and all that you do can never hide the truth from us, the American Public.

“We The People” will live up to the promises of our fore fathers who die for us, who gave us these freedoms we hold so dear. The time for acceptance is gone, the time for peaceful conceding has been passed, we are the new Americans, we will fight for what is right, and finally we will demand what is ours by birth right to claim, the freedoms penned by greater men then you, quoted by greater citizens then us, fought for by every citizen of that time, we will not bend to the tryanncy of one man who would be King as you have done this day. This day is our day, this time is our time, we will not fail, hear this voice of American she lives again thru us ………………………..

One Patriotic Citizen to Another

[passy]

33. spell checking

I started spell checking your letter for you, but realized your language was rather crude and not very positive. It read more like an insult rather than a letter trying to convince somebody of your point of view. Maybe if you tone down your language I'll give you some feedback on the content next time.

[crispini]

74. If you're going to write the media like that, don't bother.

Really. All you're doing is scolding them. Put yourself in some hardworking journalist's shoes. Would you like to get a letter like that? They're just going to think, "Oh, great, another ranting email telling me how to do my job. Delete."

Instead, take the time to outline a few key points about the vote fraud story. Write them with the Berkely data, say, "This is really important, I think you should cover it and here's why. Here are the relevant links and info." THAT'S what gets covereage.

Now, if you're going to send it as a letter to the editor, THAT's more their style. They love printing rants and raves, at least some of them do.

[StephanieMarie]

84. You forgot

to call anyone who doesn't want EVERY vote counted an un-patriotic America-hater!

Also, second sentence should be "proud" not "pride"

[DSperoRN]

114. letter is too long

Dear GTRV,
A lot of good ideas in this letter, but if you want it published, you need to cut it down a lot. Most Ls to the E are 100 words or less. That may be too tough, but look for ways to shorten it. What are the absolutely crucial points? Those are the only ones that should be there.

David
(veteran letter to editor writer)

[alaintex]

29. I thought the same thing…

When I heard the polling service say you couldn’t use the initial results because they had to be weighted differently throughout the day.

To use that logic I can predict the winners of all the football games this week. I’ll just continue to adjust my picks until the end of the day and then declare that I was right all along.

[milkyway]

31. Good analogy! That's exactly what they did.

[Straight Shooter]

30. Send your thoughts to Keith

I hope he's working on a way to present the irregularities in a compelling fashion.

You're right. The Cal Tech study is so bogus it boggles.

:thumbsup:

[nodictators]

32. Agreed. The CalTech study was so bad that no one there would put...

...their name on it. It was a case of Publish and Perish.

In there it said that something was "the exception that proves the rule."

Of course, in logic, the exception disproves the rule.

[chomskysright]

50. VTP also not professional

....when I talked to the gate-keeper, yesterday, here is what she told me (as there are no names on it you cannot fire up an e mail and ask someone about their data set):

Dear Dr. Hamm,

Thank you for your questions and comments about our report. We did the analysis reported there on the data that was publically available to us.

We plan to do an update on the

report, once the final election results are in. At that time, we'll incorporate the official election returns into the analysis, as well as add information about what happens when we analyze the data that some on the web claim were posted on the cnn web site earlier in the evening. Our preliminary analysis of this other data is consistent with our original finding that there is no relationship between the type of voting machine used and the size or direction of the discrepancy.

K






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marsha V. Hammond, PhD, Licensed Psychologist
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:54 PM
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: query from Dr. Hammond re: VTP: FL results



Marsha Hammond, PhD: Licensed Psychologist: GA & NC
e mail: [e-mail]

November 17, 2004

Hello:

In psychology, the authors are always listed. Can you tell me who are the authors associated with this report:
CALTECH/MIT
VOTING TECHNOLOGY PROJECT ?

This is in no way associated with a desire to harangue someone(s).

I am trying to understand the difference between the two main exit poll vs actual vote papers (one by Freeman at U. PA) and this study. The understanding of such is associated in professional circles with being able to ask questions about the research.

[rinsd]

87. Are you speaking of this particular paper?

Or the voting project itself?

Because those involved in the voting project are listed on the left hand side of the website

Caltech

David Baltimore
R. Michael Alvarez
Jehoshua Bruck
Jonathan N. Katz
D. Roderick Kiewiet


MIT

Charles Vest
Ted Selker
Stephen Ansolabehere
Adam Berinsky
Srini Devadas
Stephen Graves
Ronald Rivest
Charles Stewart

Edit: spelling

[chomskysright]

51. VTP also not professional

....when I talked to the gate-keeper, yesterday, here is what she told me (as there are no names on it you cannot fire up an e mail and ask someone about their data set):

Dear Dr. Hamm,

Thank you for your questions and comments about our report. We did the analysis reported there on the data that was publically available to us.

We plan to do an update on the

report, once the final election results are in. At that time, we'll incorporate the official election returns into the analysis, as well as add information about what happens when we analyze the data that some on the web claim were posted on the cnn web site earlier in the evening. Our preliminary analysis of this other data is consistent with our original finding that there is no relationship between the type of voting machine used and the size or direction of the discrepancy.

K






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marsha V. Hammond, PhD, Licensed Psychologist
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:54 PM
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: query from Dr. Hammond re: VTP: FL results



Marsha Hammond, PhD: Licensed Psychologist: GA & NC
e mail: [e-mail]

November 17, 2004

Hello:

In psychology, the authors are always listed. Can you tell me who are the authors associated with this report:
CALTECH/MIT
VOTING TECHNOLOGY PROJECT ?

This is in no way associated with a desire to harangue someone(s).

I am trying to understand the difference between the two main exit poll vs actual vote papers (one by Freeman at U. PA) and this study. The understanding of such is associated in professional circles with being able to ask questions about the research.

[chomskysright]

53. VTP also not professional

....when I talked to the gate-keeper, yesterday, here is what she told me (as there are no names on it you cannot fire up an e mail and ask someone about their data set):

Dear Dr. Hamm,

Thank you for your questions and comments about our report. We did the analysis reported there on the data that was publically available to us.

We plan to do an update on the

report, once the final election results are in. At that time, we'll incorporate the official election returns into the analysis, as well as add information about what happens when we analyze the data that some on the web claim were posted on the cnn web site earlier in the evening. Our preliminary analysis of this other data is consistent with our original finding that there is no relationship between the type of voting machine used and the size or direction of the discrepancy.

K






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marsha V. Hammond, PhD, Licensed Psychologist
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:54 PM
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: query from Dr. Hammond re: VTP: FL results



Marsha Hammond, PhD: Licensed Psychologist: GA & NC
e mail: [e-mail]

November 17, 2004

Hello:

In psychology, the authors are always listed. Can you tell me who are the authors associated with this report:
CALTECH/MIT
VOTING TECHNOLOGY PROJECT ?

This is in no way associated with a desire to harangue someone(s).

I am trying to understand the difference between the two main exit poll vs actual vote papers (one by Freeman at U. PA) and this study. The understanding of such is associated in professional circles with being able to ask questions about the research.

[Angry Girl]

61. Where is this study? Anyone have a link?

I've not heard of this "joint report out of the CalTech and MIT voting project" mentioned before.

Thanks.

Angry Girl
nightweed.com

[rinsd]

85. Here's link....

http://www.vote.caltech.edu/

Here's one directly to the pdf of the study


http://www.vote.caltech.edu/Reports/VotingMachines3.pdf

[m berst]

118. welcome Angry Girl

Liked the nightweed site. :-)

[Oak2004]

115. Could it be that no one put their names on it because it was not written

by an academic, but by a Diebold or ES&S or some such PR hack? Or even someone from the Rove team?

Statements like the one you mentioned above and the claim that you'd need to poll 100% of the voters for an exit poll to be correct are not things that even the most partisan Ph.D. would dare write.

If I knew how to look into this (it sure would help if I lived in CA) I'd be inclined to do a little detective work. Some work-study student or secretary or someone might know something and be willing to talk, if they were approached carefully (or cleverly).

[rinsd]

88. The study may indeed be flawed...

....but you characterization is is a little off.

The study was about 6 1/2 pages(minus cover). They listed their source for exit poll data on page 3 of the pdf. And source their stuff at the bottom of each page.

This was apparently originally done to refute some blogger called the blue lemur.

Here's a link to the pdf.

http://www.vote.caltech.edu/Reports/VotingMachines3.pdf

I'm not good at the statistical stuff so I can't say whther its a good or bad study.

I do have a question though. Why would unweighted exit polls be more accurate than weighted exit polls taking into consideration demographics etc? I just don't understand that part and it seems to be what the whole thing is hinging on.

[kedrys]

18. Fingers Crossed

And cautiously optimistic. Go Keith!

:yourock:

[Kralizec]

19. Does anyone know if the UC Berkeley Press Conference is going to be

streamed or anything like that, so I (we) can follow it? Any information would be appreciates.

[MominTN]

22. Where to view press conference?

I went to the site referenced in Keith's blog.....nothing about today's press release.
Then I went to link to berkeley's website and found nothing on today's calendar about a press release.
Any ideas where to look at 1 ET?
Please post whenever you find it.

[Clark2008]

112. Hi Mom in TN!!

:hi:

I'm a Mom in Tennessee, too!!

:)

[Paradise]

20. emailed keith! thanks. n/t

[bleever]

21. Yeah, Keith, dangle that Dixiecrate red herring for the snapping

dogs to jump at. Methinks it quite likely that Berkeley stats profs know how to control for known variables and historical data.

Yee ha!

[Karenca]

23. eMail Keith

Everyone please email Keith...He's our ONLY voice in MSM!

[GetTheRightVote]

24. That is a good ideal, I love to email Keith

[glitch]

25. Why put "research team" in quotes? Is there some question that they are a

research team?

[Poll Ally]

36. quotes

Because generally research would involve actually going to the polling place like Bev Harris is doing! These are college professors that are basically stirring the crap pot whose only "proof" is their wild speculation. They aren't telling anyone what or where, or how it may have happened, and I think you'll find most political professionals will chuckle at their press conference.

It's kind of like the PDF file I saw flying around with the screen shot of CNN's exit poll. The exit poll page now, with more results clearly shows Bush winning in those states but the PDF writer implies fraud on CNN's part. Olbermann for a week now keeps using the exit polls as "proof". I'm beginning to think he can't understand them as to date he's never acknowledged the FINAL exit polls endorsed by his own news network shows Bush winning Florida and Ohio. Is Keith Olbermann saying there was massive fraud at MSNBC too?

[Rose Siding]

58. Sounds like you must be aware of what they'll say

Because generally research would involve actually going to the polling place like Bev Harris is doing! These are college professors that are basically stirring the crap pot whose only "proof" is their wild speculation. They aren't telling anyone what or where, or how it may have happened, and I think you'll find most political professionals will chuckle at their press conference.

Is that true or are you talking out of your ass?

[SoCalDemGrrl]

67. Polly..sounds like you belong on another board...

ck it out... It's called Free Republic. com... If you still have any doubts that the "liberal" press would be complicit in this fraud, you haven't done your homework since the 2000 election..

[Willy Lee]

70. Poll Ally- Sorry, you are just plain wrong.

I've been in the hard sciences for over 20 years. Your statement that research involves going to the polling place is just BS. It just ain't so. Sure you can do research in the field, but you can also do it at a computer, in a library, poring over journals, crunching numbers.

[crispini]

75. They re-adjusted the exit polls to match the vote. Look around here

-- it's probably in the archives by now-- but there are several reports of this happening.

[bostonbabs]

81. tell me that that argument is beneath you n/t

[EOTE]

109. I've never seen CNN deny

that they changed their final exit polls to match the election results. How can they, when there are screen shots to prove it all over the place? Maybe you should ask them, and tell us what they say. And why don't you explain to us how an exit poll that shows Kerry 5 points up in Ohio after 1:00 a.m. changes to Bush by 2 a few minutes later. Was the 1:00 a.m. poll an "early" exit poll?

[Kralizec]

26. Hmmm, maybe there will not be that type of media coverage (net or TV)

check this from the bottom of the message:

To attend the conference or request dial-in information, contact:


• Erin Reasoner
  Eastwick Communications
  650-480-4031
  
  
• Erica Pereira
  Eastwick Communications
  640-480-4024
  
  
• Noel Gallagher
  UC Berkeley Media Relations
  510-643-7944
  

Someone want to give 'em a ring? ;-)

[quoi]

66. the hired a PR agency to help ?!

That *never* happens. UCB has a big media relations staff already. If they're getting outside help, something's up.

[understandinglife]

28. Related dKos diary....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/18/81044/392#71

Peace.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spazito]

37. Nice try!

Bye bye!

[JD Lau]

38. Good points. I, however, still think Olbermann

is the only thing we've got, and I am sure as hell not going to get snippy about it. I'll let you do that and keep us posted!

[rockedthevoteinMA]

39. the radio talk shows in boston are nothing to rely on

perhaps you watch too much fox as well? Those shows just spout right wing agenda/opinion as if it were concrete fact. It's pathetic.

[farmbo]

41. Gimmie a hit off your Bong...What are you smoking?

You opine:

"...For them to come out without ever looking at a single ballot and say they know jack about the voting is a joke".

That's the problem with Florida and Ohio. No one--except for a handful of GOP state elections officials-- has seen any ballots, or poll books, or absentee ballots or provisional ballots... let alone central tabulation software and protocols.

In most cases, where legitimate questions have arisen, the information simply gets locked down.

Olbermann...and a growing chorus of other reporters...are just doing what they're paid to do. He stands out in a field which is otherwise dominated by sycophantic midgets.

[Protect The Vote]

54. Sycophantic midgets!

Great line!

[IAMREALITY]

42. Are You Ann Coulter?

Welcome to DU Ann, now Buh Bye

:hi:

[Kralizec]

44. LOL! That's what I thought when I read the post. Hehe. n/t

[Logansquare]

56. No, it's got to be one of the geezers, like George Will

Ann would never use the term "pointdexter." I wish they hadn't tombstoned this poster--I was looking forward to pop cultural references to "Maggie and Jiggs" and Eddie Cantor!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[txindy]

45. Oh, yeah, Keith got "taken to the woodshed by several papers"

Those fact-checking newshounds who assured us of the existence of WMD and Saddam/Osama links. :crazy: They're so credible. Not as much as Falafel Boy, though, right? :eyes:

You're lost. And if you keep steering to the right, you'll never find your way.

[Cadence]

47. Ha ha! My thoughts exactly!

Now where's my can of anti-freeper spray?

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

111. BRAVO!

:toast: Very well said! I wish the Repugs would go play on their own sites! You know, they have such "Moral, Christian" icons to follow: Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Tom Delay!

[Protect The Vote]

55. Two points

First, Keith O's career is fine. I have become a viewer *because* of his courage in taking up the election fraud coverage. Good journalism will be rewarded.

Second, you mention republican concerns in other states. Can you provide some links to info on these concerns? I've heard nothing of them, and I think that the vast majority of election "glitches" have just happened to help Bush.

[Cobalt Violet]

62. Massachusetts used optical Scan in some places.

:silly: maybe you should turn off the rightwing radio. I never hear Olberman the butt of any joke, because I don't listen to rightwing radio. I listen to AAR.

[Dark Secret]

79. Yes, the Most Populous Parts of Mass used Optical Scanners. Link:

http://electionline.org/interactiveMap_result.jsp?state=MA&stateText=Massachusetts&topicText=Voting%20System%20Used&topic_string=22:votingsystemtypemain

[JD Lau]

35. Thanks for the Olbermann link. Another fine piece

from MSNBC and the Secure Undisclosed Location!

I'm forwarding to my election 2004 e-list.

JD

[youngnready]

48. When Will Recount Take Place?

I know this has probably been discussed before but now with all these problems popping up does anyone know when we'll actually find out what the outcome of all this is, because logically it seems that more precints these stories come out of the better it is for us.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

72. An Answer Re Recount

The recount takes place once the election is certified, which I believe in Ohio has to take place by December 6th. At this point they are still checking out the provisional ballots.

Does anyone have word on overseas and military ballots???

[JaneDoughnut]

57. Thank you, Keith!

I sent Olbermann a letter of thanks as well. Yes, many of the issues with our election system have always existed and don't indicate fraud. But they are problems that need to be addressed, and they'll never be addressed if someone doesn't raise a stink about it.

Besides, only a fool would take the partisan election boards and questionable e-voting machines at face value. I'm glad someone's asking "inappropriate" questions.

[LiberalMandrake]

59. Bush vs. Kerry 2004 = Kerry vs. Dean New Hampshire primary ?

The power of REAL numbers
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/279893.shtml

[MarkusQ]

120. It does make sense n/t

[MojoRoad]

63. the paper http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/

http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/

[Demrock6]

77. Great call! I been waiting to see what the found!

Someone in MSM will look at this.

[ewulf]

92. I hope Olberman reads the report soon,

he might see that it really is research from a real research group, and not just a "research group" and he might note that his thoughts about it being just a rehash of the old, blind "how can Democrats in the panhandle vote for Bush" was misplaced.

As a Cal student, I was rather insulted by Olberman's intonation concerning this report. Cal is one of the premier research universities in the country, why would he expect anything less than a rigorous analysis from a longstanding group of faculty and other researchers?

Go Bears!

[restorefreedom]

95. just because someone has a PhD after their name..

does not mean they are always right.

There were two conflicting scholarly research papers on this. Obviously, someone is wrong. It doesn't mean the researchers at Cal did not use rigorous methods. It may be that their conclusion is wrong.

It's too soon to tell which report is correct. I haven't heard anyone insult CalTech.

[DSperoRN]

123. Cal Tech study is NOT comparable

The Cal Tech "study" of e-voting is a 2-page draft with no explanation of methodology, and it's UNSIGNED. It's not a serious academic paper, it has nothing like the attention to possible confounding factors that you see in the Berkeley piece.

This is not "dueling academics." It's academics vs. political hacks.

David

[trashcan]

71. keith is the best

[BreakForNews]

73. Audio Here of Berleley Vote Research Press Conference 18th Nov 2004

Here's raw audio of the Berleley Press Conference
by Prof Michael Hout on their election research findings.

A cleaned up version will be available
later today on http://www.BreakForNews.com

Listen Live mp3
http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/mrn/audio/InsideTrackNews041118.mp3

Download Zip & Listen Offline mp3
http://www.kathymcmahon.utvinternet.com/mrn/audio/InsideTrackNews041118.zip

More on this in our regular news show.

Fintan Dunne, Editor
http://www.BreakForNews.com

[tomastom]

76. to the MOON!

This is kind of like the "we never went to the moon" rumors that people like to spread. Common sense SHOULD tell a person that THOUSANDS of people would have to be involved in a coverup to hide a lie about going to the moon, and any one of them could get MILLIONS for the book rights on how it was done! To date, there are no book deals because...... we went to the moon.

This is the same situation. There would have to be dozens or more people involved in programming, debugging software, loading, downloading, keeping communication lines open, etc. to accomplish this. Any single one of them could have blown this WIDE OPEN with a single call to the National Enquirer for a cool MILLION or so!

Sorry people; there is a reason the best political minds in the DNC told Kerry it was over.... because it was.

Now lets move a little right so we have a chance to WIN in 2008. This may mean we have to reassess our party issues, but it must be done!

One final point about Olberman and his show. This is ratings time. I think he may be doing this for a bump to his ratings.

[AP]

78. The more you post this, the less convincing it sounds. Why the urgency?

[PATRICK]

90. interesting question about WHO would do

the individual thefts. E-voting means less evidence and fewer people and bigger payoffs and more fear. But let's skip to the 'traditional" fraud.

it is almost easy to see the pattern of widespread GOP fraud in 2000, the various methods even mom and pop precinct workers employed to "enhance" their chances. None of this was faced done. Only certain entrepreneurs were ever nailed, sometimes only because of an intra-party dispute(as in any mob). Thanks for not rocking the boat for the sake of a now completely vacuous myth.

Easy, find a crook, pay them, give them methods, have them volunteer(especially in a year crying for help), instill fear and loyalty but most of all the near 100% assurance they will never be investigated or prosecuted. The latter plus greed works every time and it breeds silence. Still the GOP and other bought officials are key to any county wide fraud. SOS's nationwide have a peculiar lean to helping the GOP aims whether they are Dems or Repubs. Or they get subjected to "pressure" as the SOS in California who dared punish Diebold for overt violations.

GOP fraud in particular is the most rewarded, least punished and most NECESSARY means to power. Many methods seem quasi-criminal and of small consequence to the greedy and or fanatic. A sincere and hard investigation could crack a lot of these bad eggs but the resulting counter attack by the other side is bound to uncover some fool Dem somewhere(and they have played this game in the past when the fraud war was more competitive). They protect themselves, their institutions, their parties and their myths. Third parties or mavericks get squelched by the system they challenge.

Oh yeah, people would start talking in a flood should the situation change and DA's start the good old Grand Jury system rolling ,but do the Dems want to pay and play THAT game? It looks more like they
Who is left to FORCE to do that job? Just look at the news media and the lie/truth system locked in the wagon circle when the whole world knows they are stonewalling.

This societal dysfunction is truly epic and must be FACED DOWN. Truth is already winning. Grassroots are blindly steaming, the system is set ion self-destruct mode. Pressure. Pressure. Pressure. Can anyone give me a reason why we and our progeny and our party and our nation and our race should go quietly into this sham of a night?

Yeah thousands can do the petty parts of semi or full fraud. Thousands have in vote suppression alone, others see it as a function of their "job". In the broad path to destruction some would settle for a buck and the whole society as deaf dumb and blind as it is forced to be looks the perfect aggregate sucker. Whose afraid of squealers? if anyone listens their pitiful echoes are simply spun away and absorbed into powerless silence. And our party as dutiful victim aids and abets this WAY too much.

[Hebegirl]

128. Raise The Fist- MOVE LEFT

I advocate moving to the left. And keep moving. We aren't going to back down and swallow that B.S. about needing to accomodate the "right."
What? And accomodate our democratic asses right into theocratic, corporatized, global domination oblivion? I don't think so!
I really appreciated Mr. Loeb's excerpt here at D.U. from his
The Impossible Will Take Awhile or some such title (his book); peoples across the globe have it far worse and yet they resist. Too many U.S citizens are kept just comfortable enough (ie no hungry belly ache)
-- hitched up to the boob tube Fox Kool-Aid, and thus unawares.
But the fight continues, and will continue. Blessed Be.

[Capn Sunshine]

89. "move a little right"

why go a little ways . Just vote republican and be done with it.
Sheesh. How pathetic.

[Rose Siding]

98. Definitely!

[restorefreedom]

94. I think you're wrong on the ratings

Keith has been lambasted by righties and even some moderates for his continued dedication to this story and finding the truth.

His ratings have not significantly changed as this story has developed. It's not about ratings with him, imo. It's about doing the right thing.

It used to be called integrity in reporting.

Apparently, these days, it's called an anomaly.

Sad.

[Starlight]

100. Obviously you're lost...

I believe you're looking for freerepublic. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[crispini]

101. yawn, uh, NO. .

Did you even watch the votergate.tv video? all it takes is one person with the phone number of a diebold central tab system. dial in, and you can change the voter databases IN EXCEL, DUDE. IN EXCEL.

One bad SOS - who has all the phone numbers - and the hack is so easy, he could probably do it himself. It would NOT take any kind of army.

Go get informed. Try reading some of this stuff before you post.

[Clark2008]

108. This would be an interesting post

if Olbermann (two "n"s) were not ON VACATION during sweeps... geesch. He's not even THERE and he's creating a buzz. Bless him.

Look... you only have to have a few people - sometimes only one - to write the software. The rest are cable jacks who simply install the software into the hardware. They don't know the code or how it was written or even which source in which it was written.

And, we don't need to move to the right so much as we need to get the message out there. I don't think anyone in their right (no pun intended) mind would vote against lowering the deficit, keeping and growing better-paying jobs within the United States, reducing our dependency on foreign oil and getting the f*ck out of Iraq. They just don't know that Dems stood for those things because the cWHOREporate media never told them this. The Republicans have spent years honing their idiotic one-line phrases ("liberal media," "tax and spend librul," "libruls against God and guns and for Gays," all of which are untrue) into the American pysche.

I say we fight back. I always call the media the "corporate media" and the right wingers the "fundies" or "fundamentalists," now. Corporations aren't well loved and fundamentalists conjures up "relligious extremists," neither of which sticks well in the minds of the average citizen.

[bluetrain]

119. I'm not convinced we went to the moon.

[LIBERALNAVYVET]

82. OLBERMANN

YOU ROCK KEITH!!!!!!!!

[StephanieMarie]

86. The election was stolen, here's how

A few thousand votes at a time. Bush thinks he “won” by 3 million votes. To get this margin, he would only need to steal 1000 votes in each of 3000 different precints around the nation. Piece of cake. Thousands of small thefts. Hard to spot, difficult to prove, impossible to catch them all.

[Wordie]

93. Doesn't need to be either planned top-down or organized for the election

results to have been interferred with. All it would take is some "win-at-all-costs" types of partisans, here, there, and everywhere at the local level for the balance of the tally to change. So you're right.

[restorefreedom]

91. Thanks Keith for staying on this...

in spite of the right wing barbs aimed in your direction.

[99Pancakes]

97. I sent him a "thankyou" e-mail

My best contribution to the Dems has always been to send e-mails whenever and wherever needed. I am part of the "angry masses".

[Miami Liberal]

102. I've been sending him atleast 3 e-mails a day

since he started reporting on voting fraud. We have to reward those who speak out for us.

[99Pancakes]

104. Exactly!

:headbang:

[caligirl]

99. Watch story on the Berkeley report at 6pm in the bay are channel 7KGO n/t

[understandinglife]

103. Please support call for "Just Prove It: A National Campaign"

Have posted the call and poll at:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/18/183833/04

And, am writing numerous contacts; please do the same.

This is just one citizen's effort to contribute to saving our Democracy.

Thank you.

[smartvoter]

106. And the Findings Weren't Even Covered on Countdown

This is downright screwy.

[Baja Margie]

107. kick

[inthebrain]

113. Afterall that work!!!

Not a single word about this from the Kerry campaign. WTF is wrong with these people?

This Dem party needs a new direction and the centrist position needs to be dumped. LIKE YESTERDAY!!!!

Every single one of their cnetrist candidates got mauled on the federal level and that needs to stop. THere is a trend to that and it's obvious this party needs move futher to the left. NO MORE CODDELING THE CRIMINAL REPUBLICANS BY TAKING THE CENTER!!!

Two guys I want in '08.

Dean because he has balls and stands for something.

Kucinich because the guy never quits when the chips are down. He still campaigned long after it was obvious he had no shot. THe guy wins in Red State Ohio and the people love him there.

[holomua]

116. ES & S and CALTECH/MIT connection

Not sure if everyone already read this or not, but the following definitely shows why we should really not give the Caltech/MIT study much merit:

"AIS (later ES&S) was founded by the Urosevich and Ahmanson families. Ahmanson is a holding company for the nation's largest savings and loan association, also a significant supporter of both Caltech/MIT, a hard-right Christian mission (Chalcedon Institute) and a hard-right political organisation (Council for National Policy)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_controversies_and_irregularities

[mirrera]

122. Is Olbermann a friend?

Hi,
I apologize for the length, but this may be my only post.
Just some background so you know where I am coming from.
I have just finished Black Box Voting by Bev Harris, and have been continuously on the blogs and progressive news sites since Nov 2. I am convinced of fraud and was in 2000 as well.

I am a long time lurker. Usually after reading everything I discover my voice is not needed. Someone else always articulates my thoughts in the course of the discussion.
Today I can't read this whole discussion, but I do have something to say.

When I was first led to Olbermann's blog, I was also overjoyed to see something in the Main Stream Media. We are all so addicted to the MSM certifying our truths. Even though we know who they really serve, it is so comforting. How I miss the today show with my coffee, but like an abusive lover, I have kicked them out of my life. And told them so.

I wrote an email to Keith, after his first show, thanking him. I also told him that I found him a bit disingenuous to tell us that his fellow news reporters are all tired, etc. Telling us that there is no block out in the MSM. For god's sake, not one Letterman joke! I have heard that even John Stewart has said nothing. These people are smart and they keep up. Needless to say he did not reply. Fine I was still grateful. BUT today I am mad. (well madER)! I read an interview of him on Boston.com
(http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/11/17/media_accused_of_ignoring_election_irregularities?mode=PF)
At a moment in the interview when he could have given praise to all the hard work on the net, like Buzzflash, Truthout, DailyKos, and on and on, instead he says "It's still largely a game of telephone on the Net" !

I wrote him another email and it follows:

Subject: Boston.com interview
Dear Kieth,
Not you too! You are they only one covering the story!

"It's still largely a game of telephone on the Net"?!

You undermine some of the best citizens this democracy has. Tireless people who are seeking information in the only way human beings can, by talking to each other. That is a great disservice to some of the first class snooping that is going on. Sure it is like Telephone, but you know very well that most of the bunk is debunked pretty quickly by the sheer number of intelligent people logging on. It is like a giant town meeting, only better, because you can lead people with a click to your source. 99.9% of the stories that have resonated as truth to me, have ended up on a newspaper somewhere, just hours or days later. I know you know better, but you just helped people turn a blind eye to thousands, and feel justified.

The headlines were Sear's merger with Kmart. NOT the recount in Ohio, Not the petition to have Blackman recuse himself, Not the people under oath testifying in their 3rd hearing in Ohio. Telephone? I guess we need a Bullhorn.
----
Anyway I wonder is he really our friend?
(doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo)

Maria

PS I am not naive about the net, last night on the BlackBoxVoting.org forum, I watched as a news story about seized computers at Cybernet Group (I saw the newspaper headline that gave the name of the company clearly) change to Cybernet Ventures (online porn) to Cybernet,com (has something to do with the military). I lurked long enough to see if anyone was catching it , and when I saw it was spreading as Cybernet.com instead of Cybernetgroup.com, I chimed in with the right link and the Newspaper story.

So Yes we are a game of telephone, but we are also smart, and we are seekers of truth not conspiracy wackos! Thank you Kieth Olbermann for clearing that up.
And as for abusive media relationships, lets not kick one out and then settle for only a little bit better.

[KoKo]

125. Nice post, mirrera. I'm not so sure Olberman is our friend. We thought

Lou Dobbs was "our friend" for awhile. We've thought others here and there were champions of getting the truth out. Time after time they let us down in the end, after using us either for ratings bump or ego gratification.

I think we have to give up on sending these letters of support. They seem to do more harm than good in that they then have to lean more the the right to seem "fair and balanced." Of course they don't have to do that when the Right Wingers send them thousands of e-mails in support of the "Swift Boat Liars," but that's because the BFEE is incontrol of it all. There's no way any of these folks can support us without losing their careers. So, some of them pretend to support us in a "backhand way," until they are told to "back off," and leave us twisting in the wind.

We have to be our own media and just keep working. It's been this way throughout history. "The People" have to organize on the ground and make so much noise that eventually we are heard. The "Peasants with the Pitchforks" thing. It's just the way it is. I won't be sending Olberman or any of the rest of them any more e-mails.

[Coltrane]

126. Video clips of Olbermann

All of Olbermann's video segments are on http://www.crooksandliars.com/ Also the one by Chris Matthews.
I'm sure on Monday, they'll have his latest segment as well!