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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 03:45 PM
Original message
Re- Post: BEST VOTER FRAUD SUMMARY I'VE SEEN
This originally came from Stirling Newberry over at bopnews.com, but has been edited and added to rather heavily. Anyone with the time should update stories and fact check (I've done a little).

Numerous stories are summarized here, with links to the original publications. The following is only what has been learned in the days since the election and new reports are streaming in, seemingly, by the hour. It seems that there is enough evidence in the following to suggest that the electorate may have actually chosen Kerry for President. It cannot be known for sure until results of numerous recounts/investigations are in. Bush has not yet been chosen by the Electoral College, who meet and vote on Dec. 13.

(Please note: some of the newspaper links may expire soon. You may want to print out the stories so that later on, you don't have to buy them from the newspapers' archives.)

FLORIDA:

The most troubling news has come out of Florida. Throughout most of the state, new electronic voting machines were in use. These machines -many manufactured by a company called Diebold - are controversial because they don't leave a paper trail. There is no way to double-check the results.

The final Florida tallies on Diebold machines from Tuesday are literally unbelievable.

In 29 counties where Diebold machines (an optical scanner) were used to count the ballots, large majorities of voters were registered Democrats. But the final results gave all the counties to Bush, sometimes by huge margins.

The individual county data shows how unlikely the machine results were.

For instance:

In Calhoun County, 82% of registered voters are Democrats. But Diebold machines said 63% of the county voted for Bush.

In Lafayette County, 83% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 74%
of the county voted for Bush.

In Liberty County, 88% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 64%
voted for Bush.

In Washington County, 67% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 71% voted for Bush.

This same pattern appears in the results for 29 COUNTIES in Florida. In every one of those counties, the Diebold Optical Scanner produced the results.

The Optical Scanner has been called the voting machine that is most susceptible to tampering.

Do you believe that in 29 Florida counties in which Democrats were in the majority- in some cases with 4 out of 5 registered voters being Democrats - they all voted THAT strongly for Bush? The "Dixiecrat" theory just doesn't hold.

Here are the links.

You can find the voter registration/final result data here:

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

You can find a story analyzing these results here:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm


THE OTHER PROBLEM IN FLORIDA:

In 6 counties - again, they were all using electronic machines - more votes for President were recorded than there were actual voters in the counties.

Altogether, these six counties reported 188,885 more votes for President than there are voters living there.

Right now, no one knows whether those extra 188,000 votes were cast for Bush or for Kerry. But Bush won the state of Florida by a 5% margin- contrary to what all the polls were showing only days earlier.

In Glades County: 2,443 votes for Bush / 1,718 votes for Kerry / 27 votes for Other. Those add up to 4,188. But the machines recorded the official turnout as 3,446. That adds up to 742 more votes than voters.

In Highlands County: 25,874 for Bush / 15,346 for Kerry / 271 for Other.
Official Turnout: 33,996. That adds up to 7,495 more votes than voters.

In Miami-Dade County: 358,613 for Bush / 406,099 for Kerry / 3,841 for Other.
Official Turnout 716,574. That adds up to 51,979 more votes than voters.

In Osceola County: 43,108 for Bush / 38,617 for Kerry / 453 for Other.
Official Turnout 63589. That adds up to 18,589 more votes than voters.

In Palm Beach County: 211,894 for Bush / 327,698 for Kerry / 3,243 for Other.
Official Turnout: 452,061. That adds up to 90,774 more votes than voters.

In Volusia County: 111,544 for Bush / 115,319 for Kerry / 1,495 for Other.
Official Turnout: 209,052. That adds up to 19,306 more votes than voters.

Use this link to get to the data:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/5/18466/2846

STILL MORE PROBLEMS IN FLORIDA

This account comes from partisans. Four Kerry volunteers working in Broward County sent a letter detailing election tampering to one newspaper reporter. All four signed it and included their email addresses. They report a wide, disturbing range of problems, from voters saying their electronic machines malfunctioned, poll workers denied them assistance, to police putting up roadblocks on the routes to polling places, and so on.


11/16: Bev Harris has reported to democraticunderground.com of blatant attempts by Volusia County officials to destroy poll tapes and provide altered poll tape information to BBV's FOIA: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2704906

11/16: HUGE Berkeley report on FL disparities:
http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/new_web/VOTE2004/election04_...

OHIO

In Ohio, there were problems in four counties and one city.

In Howard County, a judge ruled on Election Day that everyone standing in line to vote at 7:30 p.m. had to eventually be allowed inside. The order said the ruling was good for the day of Nov. 2. (You can view the order at the website below.) But maybe it didn't occur to the judge that everybody might not make it inside by midnight. At the stroke of midnight, when the calendar legally clicked over to Nov. 3, Republican Ken Blackwell, the secretary of state, told all the waiting voters to go home. His workers gave them paper ballots (i.e., provisional ballots), told them to fill them out and bring them back later.

It was an improvised move that undercut the intent of the judge's ruling,and created chaos. Many people in Howard County still haven't turned in those ballots because they don't know where to take them or what the deadline is. The only kind of ballot in a federal election that people can legally take home, fill out and turn in later is an absentee ballot, and those are marked as such. They're marked with clear rules concerning deadlines, postmarking, and so on. So an uncounted number of people in Howard County - estimated in the thousands - couldn't get in and were turned away with what may be ruled an illegal procedure. The vast majority of those votes were expected to go to Kerry based on the heavily Democratic population of Howard County.

The Democrats have filed a lawsuit. You can click on the Ohio State University law school website to read about it. (Reassemble the
following long link, if it is broken by your email browser.)

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:pKbOJwHH7OMJ:moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/analysis/110304b.htm+Ohio+7:30+election+Blackwell+waiting+line&hl=en&start=4&lr=lang_en


Meanwhile, in Warren County, election officials locked the doors to the County building and refused to allow bi-partisan observers to watch the vote-count. They also denied access to the AP reporter (it is standard procedure for the AP to observe vote-counting in counties all over the country.). The Sheriff of the county said he did it for "homeland security" reasons. He never explained or specified what the security concerns were.

Here is the link to the story in the Cincinnati Enquirer:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html

Meanwhile, in a Columbus suburb called Gahanna, the same problem showed up with electronic machines that we saw in Florida: more votes were cast than there were voters to cast them. In this case, however, the problem was investigated and the extra 3,893 votes were shown to have been erroneously tallied for Bush.

Here is the link to the story on the Ohio Network News:

http://wwwonnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2524952

Meanwhile, in Mahoning and Mercer Counties, electronic machines again malfunctioned, but the effect that had on the vote count is not clear. The machines had to be re-set, and at one point showed votes of "negative 25 million," according to the head of the local board of elections.

Here is the story from the local Youngstown paper, called the
Vindicator:

http://wwwvindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php

INDIANA

In Laporte County, electronic voting machines once again appear to have failed.

They tallied results for 22,200 voters, even though there are 79,000 registered voters in LaPorte County. Assuming the county actually had a 65% turnout rate (comparable to others in the area and its own track record), that means 29,000 votes were not counted.

Here is the link to the story in the Michigan City News-Dispatch:

http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt

NEW HAMPSHIRE

This is one of several states where original exit polls (interviews with voters as they are leaving) do not jive with the results produced by electronic voting machines.

An administrator at Bev Harris's group, called BlackBoxVoting (more on this below) has said that they are urging Ralph Nader to press for a recount in New Hampshire. Nader was on the ballot there, so he is in a good position to ask for a re-count.

You can read about Harris and her work at www.blackboxvoting.org/
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

SIX STATES

In at least six states, there was a large difference between how people said they'd voted, and how officials said they'd voted.

In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New Hampshire and New Mexico, there was a large discrepancy between what voters said in the original exit polls, and the final results claimed by election officials.

In each of those six states,electronic voting machines were used in some or most of the counties, with the exception of Ohio, which mainly uses ballot and optical scan machines.


In contrast, in states where paper ballots were the primary method of voting, there was little or no discrepancy between original exit polls and official results.

To see an easily viewable graph of this data, go to:

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/todays_show.html

That graph was originally compiled by a website affiliated with The Raw Story, which often gets quoted in the major dailies. It is regarded as a reputable site.

You can see their original posting here:

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

MORE ON EXIT POLLS

These are routinely conducted in elections by major news organizations and countries around the world use these numbers to decide elections before results are in. In Germany, for instance, the votes take approximately 3 weeks to count, but they are able to call the election that night within a half percent, based on exit polling. That was also the case here in the US until 2000.

Accounts are surfacing that both the Associated Press and CNN (and perhaps others) later CHANGED their exit polling data to more closely resemble the official results. None of the news organizations is believed to have offered an explanation. They may try to justify it on statistical grounds.

Here are some accounts:

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/11/ana04025.html

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE411A.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=58434&mesg_id=58434

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

MORE ON ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

Here is an except from the Moderate Independent website about Bev Harris's work. She is a freelance journalist who has been documenting how unreliable the machines are, and how vulnerable they are to tampering. "Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the blackboxvoting.org web site, has documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One occurred in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election officials hand recounted more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed the computerized system,after the central ballot-counting computer showed a Socialist Party candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and Al Gore getting minus 19,000. Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush that should not have been there.

"Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media,which were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the election for Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount battle in his favor."

Three Members of Congress Have Asked the GAO to Investigate the
Election

Three Congressmen have asked the General Accounting Office, a federal agency, to investigate the election, citing questionable results in Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and California. Click here to see their letter to the GAO:

forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=ST&f=87&t=34711
http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=ST&f=87&t=34711

REMEMBER THESE FOUR POINTS:

A. Bush's approval numbers were CONSISTENTLY below 50% throughout the campaign.

B. New Democratic registrations in Ohio were 10 times that of Republicans, and in Florida, Democrats held a similar but somewhat
smaller advantage.

C. All the polls that were still giving Bush leads after the debates were within the margin of error, and when the undecideds started making up their minds over the last weekend, Kerry's poll numbers were surging.

D. The $10 million exit-poll system, specifically designed not to fail this time, clearly showed, in the original reports, a Kerry victory.

OTHER VOICES TO HEAR:

Here are other voices which are beginning to question the legitimacy of the recent election. Here are some of them. (Reassemble any long links which have been broken by your browser's settings.)

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_10_31_americablog_archive.html#109970362694815839


http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingSecurity.htm

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18588&mode=&order=0

Here is a report of voter complaints in 7 Southern states:

http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/1104/185549.html

There may still be time to do something about this before the Electoral College meets on December 13th.

The first step is to immerse ourselves in the facts. The second step is to encourage the mainstream media to take the issue. They will only do that if they feel there is considerable popular concern. The local and regional press, and the alternative media, have been doing their jobs; now we need the national press to do its job, too.

If you are concerned about this election being stolen, please do two
things:

1. Send your concerns to everyone you know, both inside and outside the United States.

2. Send your concerns to the major news organizations.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yikes! Nicely done.
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. SCARY..
...ain't it?
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kick!
Well done!
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Thank the author
I just edited....
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. ??
Hasn't most of this already been debunked?
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. By what/ whom?
That there are enormous disparities in a # of states votes is, in fact, being proven MORE every day not less! While individual instances have been "explained" by such things as absentee ballotts, etc. Nothing I have read accounts for this many inconsistencies in an election, or the drastic change between voting and exit polls. REMEMBER: Exit polls are used around the world to predict votes AND as an indicator of vote fraud. In Germany they use them to call results on Election night, though the vote isn't counted there for weeks. Historically, they are accurate to 1/2 of 1%
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. that is not quite true
In Germany, during the Election Night all normal ballots are counted-
The result, which is usually in by midnight, is called "Preliminary Official Final Result" and does not use any exit poll data.

Then it usually takes about three weeks; in that time the absentee ballots are counted, all indications of fraud are looked into, recounts and so on.
After that time, the "Final Official Final Result" is published - it sometimes differs from the preliminary result.
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I believe it was debunked today

"There were an awful lot of people on the Internet talking about things they don't understand,'" said Gawiser, head of the news organizations' steering committee. "First wave exit poll data is not terribly accurate."


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=496&u=/ap/20041118/ap_on_en_tv/exit_polls_1&printer=1
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Oh, please -- you're using one article on yahoo to claim
the whole litany of documented problems, analysis by academics, and all the rest was DEBUNKED "today"?

You're either on the wrong side of this discussion or need to do some serious self-educating.
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Uhm
Uhm, I'm actually using a quote from one of the main people involved in the exit polling. Sorry that I attempt to look at the entire picture and not just one conspiracy point of view.

:(
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. First off, it wasn't a "conspiracy", it was an "agenda".......
........second, check out the person (Mitofsky?) you are talking about.

http://www.ecotalk.org/VNS.htm

<Snip>

VNS (now NEP) is a top-secret private consortium owned by ABC News, The Associated Press, CBS News, CNN, Fox News, and NBC News that allegedly projected election night winners as well as reported actual election results from 1989-2002. As an organization, VNS's roots date back to 1964. Questions abound as to its real mission. One theory is that VNS could have conspired with election officials and used bogus exit poll projections as a cover (a de fact certification) for election fraud. It should be noted that the late Collier brothers, authors of book VoteScam: The Stealing of America, which exposed VNS's secret operations, were off-the-mark when they stated the following: "By means of an unofficial private corporation named News Election Service (NES - now known as VNS), the Establishment press has actual physical control of the counting and dissemination of the vote, and it refuses to let the public know how it is done." This statement is not completely correct. Tabulation and certification of elections is done at the local, county, state and federal levels. However, it is true that those who control the tabulation, control the election. And all-to-often it is private corporations who control vote counting technology.

<More>
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TimeToGo Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well . . .
I don't know -- I sure hope they find more votes.

But -- Florida, Volusia Country:

"In Volusia County: 111,544 for Bush / 115,319 for Kerry / 1,495 for Other. Official Turnout: 209,052. That adds up to 19,306 more votes than voters."

Except the official County page doesn't say that.



And here it shows the official turn out at 229,580.

http://www.volusia.org/elections/110204/GEMS%20SOVC%20REPORT%20111504.pdf

Again, I can't say there wasn't a problem -- I am not saying there weren't problems all across the country, nor in Volusia Country -- but unless we have proof that the turn-out number was doctored . . .

I certainly hope we have better proof than this. If not, then we are being unrealistic.

If so, let's see it. Cause I hope there is.

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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Interesting thing about web pages...
...as was shown 11/2 is that data can be "updated" to reflect new figures. Since I did not personally write or research every URL recently included, I can only tell you that this info was accurate WHEN it was posted. I have numerous screenshots of newspapers calling the election a week early, exit poll #'s being changed, voter turnout rising and falling. Thank you very much for pointing this out, would like to see more of this info "vetted"!
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Also, did you READ what Bev Harris foud in Volusia Co this week?
They gave her false voter info and tried to destroy the REAL poll Tapes!!
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regularjoe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Where did you get the first set of numbers and the chart?
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TimeToGo Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. http://www.volusia.org/elections/110204/a.jpg
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regularjoe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. So the contradicting charts and numbers came from the same
website? weird.

regularjoe
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I agree
If people want to continue this fight, God Bless them. But my gut says a lot of us are looking for something that just isn't there.
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Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You're not one of us.
You joined 2 days ago & you've posted nothing positive. Every single post has been insisting that we should give up on investigating the election fraud. What are you so afraid of? You think maybe you're going to jail? :scared:
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Jail?
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 09:31 PM by Magically_Delicious
Jail?

You will have to explain that to me.

And actually I have posted nothing but positive things. I've been absolutely dismayed how this party has acted the last few years with the quality of our candidates, the complaining about losing (rather than LISTENING to the people), etc, etc. I'm trying very hard to be positive in the sense that people have got to stop screaming at the voters of this country and calling them DUMB, calling Bush Hitler, calling people of Religion whackos, etc, etc. This is NOT the way to endear yourself or get elected.

I'm a pragmatist. Unfortunately the party no longer has much room for us. It's sad. And that is why we continue to lose.
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99Pancakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Those who voted for Shrub
are Dumb. The religious bigots ARE behind King Dumb-Dumb II. Is there a problem not understanding the obvious?
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Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. We're all America
It saddens me to see what has happened to the political discourse in this country. For a brief moment today watching President Clinton, President Bush I and Bush II and President Clinton all on stage was rather a nice break from the insanity.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Magically_Delicious Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Sigh
And you wonder why.
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99Pancakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Good Call
I stand alerted, and am now a Lert.
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hippiegranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. oh ok, "we" continue to lose
because we aren't all pragmatists like you. Ok, that makes sense. Might as well just shut down the computer and take up knitting.

Or wait, I have a better idea. How about we help as many people as we can to pull their heads out of their rumps? How about we understand that democracy is broken, and if we don't fix it, we can all be as pragmatic as you are and it won't make a damn bit of difference. The Pukes hold all the Lucky Charms to make sure all elections go their way.

Are you really just a pragmatist? Or do you like to play leprechaun at other *types* of boards too?
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
41. Freeper, go back to where you belong
It's obvious you don't belong among our group.
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
39. With all due respect to your "gut".......
.......I'll stick with the evidence and the experts, thank you. :evilgrin:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great video link below re Electronic voting fraud!

Great video link below re Electronic voting fraud!


A way to end the "voting machine problems" code/Diebold...folks eyes would glaze over - problem.

This is the time to send this to everyone. I have Dialup and it's a long download but even those with Dial-up can just download it over night and save it to cache if you want to watch it.

It's incredibly well done....And we need to send it to anyone we know who has worked with us on the campaign or in the Democratic establishment right now!


http://www.votergate.tv /





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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. These are the guys...
that Bev Harris took with her who filmed Voter Fraud in FL!

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liquiduniverse Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. You should drop any mention of the florida dixiecrat counties.
It only hurts the cause.

From the post:

In Calhoun County, 82% of registered voters are Democrats. But Diebold machines said 63% of the county voted for Bush.

In Lafayette County, 83% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 74%
of the county voted for Bush.

In Liberty County, 88% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 64%
voted for Bush.

In Washington County, 67% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 71% voted for Bush.

These counties are very backward and rural. They are generally not friendly to national Democratic politicians.

Why aren't most of the people in these counties registered Repugs. It's simple – Lincoln. He was the Republican that crushed the Confederacy. Many of them don't want to be associated with him. But since they don't believe in homosexuality and do believe in prayer in school, they will not usually vote for any Democrats on the national level.

And before anyone asks: Yes, they really are holding a 140 year grudge.


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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Nonsense
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liquiduniverse Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. have you ever been to any of those counties?
you may change your mind after you visit.

The first three counties mentioned in the first link you give - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=44792&mesg_id=44792 - are not the same ones I quoted from the post. Instead these counties are all around Tallahassee, and have benefited from Tallahassee's growth. Tallahassee has two universities and a large black population - so the dixiecrats aren't so noticeable in those counties.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is a great post! Thank you!
You don't have a link to it do you?
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. I do!
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Excellent work !
Let's get this out to everyone we can. Here are some news addresses:

jloven@ap.org; kcarroll@ap.org; 2020@abc.com;
nightline@abcnews.com; nightline@abc.com; feedback@ap.org; lmargasak@ap.org;
msilverman@ap.org; opinion@thewire.ap.org; npickler@ap.org;
rfournier@ap.org; sjohnson@ap.org; pr@ap.org; thunt@ap.org; raum@ap.org;
aweathersbee@suntimes.com; zwecker@suntimes.com; cledbetter@suntimes.com;
metro@suntimes.com; marym@suntimes.com; mcooke@suntimes.com;
sneed@suntimes.com; prosen@suntimes.com; stphoto@suntimes.com;
rroeper@suntimes.com; shuntley@suntimes.com; savage@suntimes.com;
zays@suntimes.com; aobejas@tribune.com; ctc-editor@tribune.com;
rkemper@tribune.com; bjapsen@tribune.com; csimpson@tribune.com;
cgarrett@tribune.com; fjames@tribune.com; GWashburn@tribune.com;
gdelama@tribune.com; joshea@tribune.com; jgreenburg@tribune.com;
jzeleny@tribune.com; jzuckman@tribune.com; nbendavid@tribune.com;
psinger2@tribune.com; bdold@tribune.com; rranderson@tribune.com
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
32. TO CLARIFY:
here is the URL for this information:

http://www.bopnews.com/archives/002403.html

I erroneously attributed it to Stirling Newberry, but he is NOT the author. Again, I would like to see this more thoroughly vetted and updated, as so many people have found out of date info, though I wouldn't put much stock in the "final" numbers on some county websites. I am sure that there are many here that have snapshots of these numbers being "adjusted" much as the exit polls were 11/2. Believe me, after seeing TWO seperate local news webpages (including my hometown rag, The Rocky Mountain News!) calling the election for Bush weeks before the election and after having watched HUGE chunks of info disappearing to be "updated" on the White House webpage, I have been forced to the unfortunate conclusion that an active coverup is taking place and now that the Head of Exit Polling for '04 has come out AGAINST exit polling (calling first wave exit polls "notoriously inaccurate" and giving what sounds like a very reasonable explanation. Ya, you're going to spend $10 MILLION dollars on something SO unreliable?) and will now be DELAYING late exit poll #'s in upcoming elections, I am even more convinced that, despite the overwhelming evidence, it will all be explained away. Exit Polls are used around the world within 1/2% accuracy and to indicate vote fraud, but apparently do NEITHER here.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. OMG
Monroncreif - I'm in Denver too! I'm starting my own campaign of making local contacts and asking why they and their affilitiates aren't covering this more closely. Maybe you could do the same and they would realize this is too a local issue.
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monroncrief Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Wuttup Jdog
Two heads are better than one and i'm about a lazy bastard! Shoot me an email monroncrief@yahoo.com and let's see if we can coord something - did you SEE that RMN webpage calling the election for Bush, like a week before the election?
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. disgusting
I agree - it's a rag.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. he dismisses "early wave" exit polls
yet the ones throughout the day showed Kerry winning if I remember correctly.

I know that Bush was catching up to Kerry by early evening, but was still a couple of points down and by then you would think the numbers would be hard to change (like trying to change your GPA when you have a lot of credits already - it's not easy because your sample size is larger later in the day).

"There were an awful lot of people on the Internet talking about things they don't understand,'" said Gawiser, head of the news organizations' steering committee. "First wave exit poll data is not terribly accurate."

Those first numbers reflect only interviews with people who have voted in the morning. By delaying release of numbers until between 4 p.m. and 6 p.m., pollsters will have talked to more people and, it is presumed, have a more accurate snapshot of the electorate, he said.
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proudtobeadem Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
42. kick
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