I Predict: The 'Fraud' floodgates will open on 11/23 or 11/24

[Rosco T.]

Timing is everything.

BushCo likes to have a Friday document dump. I think we're gonna have a Pre-Thanksgiving 'explosion' on EARLY Wednesday or Thursday.

Recounts everywhere being demanded.
Lawsuits to force recounts before 12/13
Lockdown/impoundments of machines/records.
Criminal Fraud suits being filed.

and JFK/JE stepping up and saying the REAL MANDATE is to HAVE A FAIR COUNT OF THE BALLOTS.

That's all people will talk about over T'Giving, and not enought time for BushCo to 'spin' it before people are on the road for the holiday.

[shraby]

1. Don't we wish! I'd give up my turkey wishbone for that.

[s-cubed]

61. IOWA ONLY 10000 votes: deadline near for recount

Go to

http://www.senate.gov /

and tell Kerry to get off his ass and file for a recount before the deadline in IA.
(I think 11/29)

[progressoid]

75. It's long past recounts in IA

The link is gone but the law here: a recount has to be requested by the candidate; the deadline was Nov 12.

Unless someone finds fraud, nothing else will be done. Sadly, 82 of the 99 counties in IA use optical scan - some are scanned at the precinct level but most (56) are centrally scanned. My county uses scanners made by our good pals at ES&S.

[bleever]

A great scenario. Pass it on. And it's looking more and more likely.

I really like that line: "The REAL MANDATE is to HAVE A FAIR COUNT OF THE BALLOTS."

That's the way to break the top of the ticket silence on this one.

:thumbsup:

[Hobbes199]

2. I was thinking the 24th too.

Hoping it's earlier, but sounds like a good time for the Dems to show us they're really still here.

[lizzieforkerry]

3. Yeah, except think of all of the people that

will be stuck in their cars with nothing to do except listen to Limbaugh.

[GetTheRightVote]

6. It is about time to see some action out there

So I am hoping you are right, I refuse to accept another stolen election by Bushco.

[dmac]

10. yes and think of all of the poor

people who had hoped to escape Thanksgiving dinner without acknowledging the FAUX victory of Nov 2 - in fact, hoping to escape the day with no mention of politics at all - because political discussion with so many opposing views (especially in our outspoken household) is a recipe for disaster, not Pumpkin Pie.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. In my car

we will be listening to Air America. :)

[electropop2]

47. since getting XM...

I am glad my commute to DC is 1.5 hours. Now I can listen to Air America 3 hours per day. (Except for that Ed Schultz guy from Jones, who doesn't do much for me.)

[newyawker99]

55. Hi electropop2!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[verdalaven]

36. Limbaugh would be on holiday, too.

At least I assume so. They'd play repeats of his shows, yesterday's news.....

[merh]

62. That's what CDs or cassette players are for

and if, bless their souls, they have neither, then that GEICO commercial comes to mind "Everybody was KungFu figting ...."

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Pay close attention to what happens

with the Democratic Party Lawsuit in OH... that will give you a hit of how hard and exactly what method and even date, will lead to the big opening

See if the story moves out of Cleveland Plain Dealer\ Air America to the MSM

[bleever]

8. See, we can already tell where the MSM will start to dip their toe in.

What kind of counterassault are people envisioning from the R's?

[Hobbes199]

11. Discussed here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=61185&mesg_id=61185

[dmac]

12. Speaking of the R's . . . .

with the MSM so quiet, do you think they are even aware of what is cooking? Or is it going to blindside them? (I am referring to the average Joe's, not the political machine, who I am sure are keeping well abreast of the situation).

[bleever]

5. dupe, sorry.

[Nikepallas]

7. I can't image that only because...

With the Thanksgiving holiday on Thursday and lots of people getting together--topic of politics often comes up-- and the media(IF they actually do their job) will take it as a sign that hey let's get this info out. By the time Monday rolls around White House won't be able to do much in way of damage control. IF BUSHCO feels like that will happen they will pull another terror alert maybe even put it at red just to keep the media busy away from the real story.

[electropop2]

48. Terror alerts

It's already been proven that the pre-election alert was a fraud. I think there's not much more milk in that udder.

[jsascj]

9. Good thought...

But then Bush will bring out another OBL tape and that will trump the fraud.

What do you bet that Osama pops up very shortly after the fraud breaks wide open?

Then they'll all start chanting 9/11, 9/11, 9/11...

[Hobbes199]

13. Good call, no doubt.

[bmoney07]

46. OR INVADE IRAN

ITS ALWAYS BAIT AND SWITH WITH THESE F***ING UNPATRIOTIC PUKES

[HEAVYHEART]

14. Fingers crossed.

[knowbody0]

15. we need a plan b for communication

a newspaper editorial section perhaps.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

16. I've been saying this for a couple of weeks..n/t

n/t

[BurlingtonPatriot]

17. I hate to even think this...

Maybe a dirty bomb distraction?

Nukes are all over the news these past few weeks...

[Helga Scow Stern]

19. Banish that thought.

[enough]

18. Only if we cause it to happen.

Time for the next wave of soldiers to step up. I count myself in this one. Those of us who were too depressed or cynical to do anything in the time since the election.

Now is the time for us to take our distilled knowledge of what is going on and present it in a SECOND WAVE to the media, acting as much-needed reinforcements for those who have been tirelessly working since November 2 (and before) to get the story out -- only to be treated with condescension and worse.

Time to walk calmly through that tissue-thin notion of "nothing to see here." And "you must be neurotic."

The Berkeley study is a perfect springboard for the second sortie.

[Helga Scow Stern]

22. Yeah and also maybe making noise about the exit polls.

As Tace posted:

There's A Dynamic Evident Here That Is Fascinating

The major corporate owned US media outlets band together to control exit polling and to withhold the results of the polling from the public, citing the internet.

It is clear that the power of these media outlets to control public perception is being undermined by non-corporate internet information sources.

As a journalist with a degree in mass communications (Journalism major, Broadcasting minor), I find this to be fascinating and proof that we need independent exit polling of future elections. This is a BIG deal.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1003688

[BurlingtonPatriot]

20. Sorry

Sorry Ojai.

I hate being a pessimist.

[brainshrub]

21. And if pigs could fly, we'd have to wear helmets.

The fraud story WILL break... but only after January 20th, when nothing can be done.

[intheflow]

32. I think you got that right.

:(

[BamaBecky]

23. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that most Americans

{especially the TV watching, disengaged Americans} are completely oblivious to the vote fraud issues. They have chalked it up as "sore loosers"....really. Particularly the "not so clued in Republicans". So unless the TV carries this story, most of them will be talking turkey....and that is exactly what Bush wants.

Thanksgiving is a time for families to "discuss" around the table and pool/share knowledge of events. I don't see it happening unless the TV starts covering it. I didn't even know that North Carolina was having so much trouble with their election results, till I read about it here. My family of Republicans have long since written me off as some kind of crazy liberal conspiracy nut. I don't look forward to Thanksgiving AT ALL.......:shrug:

[Straight Shooter]

24. Tell your family you will take off your tinfoil hat ...

... if they will take off their tinfoil blinders.

Thank goodness my family is hundreds of miles away :P

[electropop2]

49. LOL! n/t

[HEAVYHEART]

28. "I didn't even know that North Carolina was having so much trouble"

.... me too! And I'm IN North Carolina for christ's sake! I only found out about all the NC problems from this forum! :grr:

[KatieB]

67. N.C. certified its votes today except for 2 state races

9 counties had problems with voting machines, 5 with ES&S machines, one was Diebold (Carteret County) Mecklenberg County was in the mix. BIg county. I wrote the General Counsel from the Board of Elections and he wrote me back trying to say it was all human error. (argh) He Made a parallel to humans driving cars and there being so many accidents. I was too polite to write him back and mention Goodyear tire issue. Bowles was set to win. But he was no where to be seen and no one wrote me back from his web site.

[AgadorSparticus]

30. i'm not putting my money that most americans are out of the loop

on this one. we are getting alot traction whether we know it or not. everyone i've talked to knows about it. maybe not to the degree that i do since i read the threads here on DU, but they definitley have an inkling of it. it is the talk at water coolers as per 2 of my neighbors.

[masshole1979]

38. i have not mentioned voter fraud to a single person...

...who openly disbelieved. Granted, they didn't all run out and storm the White House, but they quietly accepted it. My mother in fact was the one who told me the election was stolen, when she heard Bev Harris (or someone else?) on NPR. My best friend refused to believe that Florida could have gone too bush, particularly Tampa, where he has lots of friends, even before any of this stuff came out.

Many, many people, at least in Mass., have a very very cynical view of politics and generally take it for granted that every presidential election is a great big sham because of all the money involved. And yes, even the die-hard flag wavers tend to take this view.

The problem isn't getting them to believe in fraud, but getting them to think that this is a substantively different fraud than what we're used to, that signals a point-of-no-return.

Is that not how it is everywhere? Or are people in the rest of the country really even dumber than we tend to assume they are? Are there really people who have a child-like belief in US democracy?

[BamaBecky]

51. I personally have relatives & friends with a child-like belief in our

democracy. One of them practically screamed at me that "they do not care". They have no idea that things have taken a paradigm shift in this world.:eyes:

[Spangle]

31. Perfect TIME!

When dealing with republicans, I avoid the issue about the President race it's self. Why bring it up? We all ready know that we dissagree on that issue. It's an old dead issue.

Voting, that is a non-partisin issue. It effects Republicans too. They are quick to bring up Chicago!!! Where it is rumored that some Dems played dirty. And they have alsorts of "storys" warning them of Democrats doing fraud and to keep an eye on us.

So on that issue they are "with" us.

The issues that should be discussed is the many possible ways it has been found that votes/counting can be screwed up. That "we" have been sold a bad bill of goods. Those voting machines are NOT saving tax payers money. They were suppose to make things easier, cheaper, faster and more accurate then paper ballots and hand counting. We are spending TONS of money before/during/after and election that we shouldn't have to pay. And it's because these COMPANY'S screwed us.

These screw ups effect more races then just the Presidentual race. It effects all races and issues voted on. It does't effect just the General election. But the primarys as well.

Don't put them on the defensive by making them feel the need to defend or protect GWB. And don't defend Kerry or the democratic party. Those are no/win arguements and just builds brick walls that are not needed. Just accept ahead of tiime that those kinds of comments WILL be made. Cause they are easy comments about something they THINK they know about. This voting issue, that is a scary one for them right now. They don't know if they should get involved or not. They don't know if it's ok to even THINK about the issue without it be "against" their own team. And if they go that direction, redirect by reminding them that UNLESS the republican party had a hand in the "fraud", then they are not the ones to blame. The evidence right now is pointing at the commpanys and the fact that since the MODERN age, we really haven't pushed our government to review the new technoligys and set up a regulary system for handling it all. It just kinda snuck up on us all. Everyone thinks someone else is doing something about it. But they didn't. NOW we have to prove something needs to be done. And THAT is that.

[BamaBecky]

52. Very good advice n/t

[s-cubed]

63. HOW YOU PLAY THE STORY

I think there's a great mass of people out there who are numb and depressed about the election. When the story breaks, they will just jump on the bandwagon. For your R relatives (I have a bunch too) you have to play it as patriotism, upholding the sacred, constitutional right to vote. After all, Bev is non-partisan!:thumbsup:

[Horse with no Name]

25. And on the 25th

We will have another terrorist attack if that were to happen.
Remember that is what kept Guiliani in office longer than he was elected.:(

[txindy]

26. What?

Guiliani left at his scheduled time. He didn't fade out of sight, though, but he wasn't mayor. He was bound by the law to step down and he did.

[Horse with no Name]

29. So sorry

Meant to type that they tried to keep Guiliani in longer due to the attacks. Sorry.

[ClarkinMich]

33. I hope that Roscoe is right

BUT EVEN IF HE ISN'T AND THE FLOODGATES DO NOT OPEN -- We can Still "be the media"

I have 1 objective for Thanksgiving

1) I will bring printed out evidenciry articles with the least amount of tinfoil references and force people to read them. I will bring votergate on CD and try to get some to watch.

either
a) I will convince some people that this is not just a bunch of conspiracy theories and that our FREEDOM has been stolen

OR

b) I will make a scene so big that I will never be invited back to my in-laws for Thanksgiving

either one is not a bad outcome.

And then - on my Friday off -- I am going to try to distribute 1000 fliers in Southeast Michigan -- anyone want to help?

[redsoxliberal]

34. Bush is gonna choke on his turkey...

*sorry*




It was too fuckin easy.

[ebayfool]

35. It was too fuckin easy.

LOL! Had to be done!

[Trahurn]

37. Yeah Somebody Said

Somebody said it would be a Kerry landslide too.

[Baja Margie]

39. Oh brother I hope so,

I'm starting a Novena tonight, heh, where's what is his name from down on the Bayou, we need a little voodoo mojo goin here.

Everybody PRAY HARD !!!!

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. Too bad my grandmother isn't alive anymore

she use to have great success with Novenas.

[Fiendish Thingy]

40. If I could pick a date to launch Votergate in the MSM, it would be...

next Monday, 11/22. Besides being, ironically, the 41st anniversary of the Kennedy assassination/coup, it would give a couple of news cycles for the momentum to build in time for the long holiday weekend...right now it seems the pieces of the puzzle (Berkley report, Bev's research, Ohio hearings, NH recount, NC probs, etc.) are out there on the net and AAR, and with something to bring it all together, either a whistle blower, a 60 minutes piece(less likely), or one Brave major paper to give front page headlines to a press conference announcing criminal charges/civil action in one or more states...as someone said above, this may not happen until after Jan. 20th, but if I could pick a date, it would be 11/22.

[Hobbes199]

43. That's our assignment then

Everybody spend the weekend thinking about how we're going to get this out there on Mon or Tue. Protests outside of our local stations? Something out on the websites or magazines we work for?

[simply_the_best]

41. It will happen

You're right Rosco, timing is everything, and I haven't felt this optomistic since Nov 2nd, when I put the champagne in the fridge, ready for the victory celebration:)

[bullimiami]

42. I think we all are pretty sure Rove and pals rigged this election.

If some actual proof (cross fingers NH) turns up maybe....just maybe the MSM will start to crack. I think we need the kind of proof that brings into question the validity of the count.


I'd give up my Turducken, Stuffing and Gravy for that.

[bmoney07]

45. I agree

The best is to get all of your DUCKS in a row and SPLAT the Repugs will not know what hit them and will not have time to recover.

Remember we have very shrud intelligent people out gathering data,

Bev Harris
Ralph Nader
the Greens and Libs
and last but not least a great former prosecutor by the name of Kerry

These people always keep their cards close to their chest until they are ready to spill the beans and it always cathes their adversaries OFF GAURD!

I believe this has been the plan all along

KEEP DIGGING PEOPLE
KEEP PRAYING
PATIENCE

:D

[Jane Eyre]

50. Gaston County, NC is a mess - Diebold technician involved

Gaston County in North Carolina is having a hell of a time getting the election numbers right. First, they forgot to include 12,000 early and absentee votes and didn't notice it for a week. Then they realized that they had forgotten to include numbers from a precinct which included a whole little town. Now comes news that the figures they turned in show more votes than voters in about half the precincts AND they allowed a Diebold technician to work on the voting machines unsupervised on election day!

Gaston is not the only place in NC that is messed up. Carteret County lost over 4000 votes on one machine because they were erroneously told by the voting machine company that the machines could hold 10,000 votes, only the company never updated the software which caused all votes over 3000 to be lost. This could possibly lead to a whole new statewide election for the agriculture commissioner's race which now shows a margin of about 2500 votes.

Mecklenburg County uses electronic voting machines purchased by an elections official who subsequently served time in jail because he accepted kickbacks from the voting machine company that he purchased the machines from.



http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/politics/10220215.htm

State Board of Elections staff will travel to Gaston County on Monday to investigate how Gaston officials counted and reported votes after the election.

Gary Bartlett, the board's executive director, said the state wants to know if the county properly audited its results, among other things, by checking whether the number of people recorded as voting equaled the number of ballots cast.

The Observer reported Thursday that the numbers did not balance in more than half the precincts in Gaston County. Gaston elections officials said they had been unaware of the problem.

..............

In Gaston, the state also will investigate whether a technician employed by a private company did work on Election Day that should have been done by elections officials.

The Gaston Board of Elections paid for the presence of a technician from Diebold Election Systems, which manufactures the county's voting machines.

Gaston Elections Director Sandra Page has told the Observer that the employee loaded the county's early votes onto a computer and otherwise assisted in the vote-counting process, a job reserved for elections officials.

"We don't want that technician to do anything that is the responsibility of an election official," Bartlett said. "If you have some technician doing that, there better be some election official right beside them."

But Page has told the Observer that she did not watch the entire process. She says the county Board of Elections watched, but Richard Jordan, one of three board members, said he did not remember watching.

[gasperc]

53. hopefully my missing 218,931 voter post will help it along

let's see where the freedom of information takes it

[Broken Acorn]

54. Oakland Tribune talking of 'Ghost' Evotes

http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~2545623,00.html

I like how there is no conspiracy theory mentioned...

First the West Coast Media starts bringing up questions, then the East and finally the rest.

Looks like the ball is rolling and picking up steam.

[proudtobeadem]

56. kick

[New Earth]

57. this guy was right on

look at what's happened today

[YellowDoginthehouse]

58. Yep, yep, yep!

We were right!

[tex-wyo-dem]

59. This makes a lot of sense...

things have really started to pick up.

Let's see what tomorrow will bring.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

60. Interesting prediction

With all the good news today, perhaps you will be right.

[GetTheRightVote]

64. Like the earlier members stated, NC is a big time mess

Who knows what the results really are in this state ????

[eowyn_of_rohan]

68. And is anything going to HAPPEN in NC?

problems. problems, that is all we hear, but what is HAPPENING?! O tell you if it was my state, there would be ACTION and we would make sure it made the news (WIS)

[eowyn_of_rohan]

69. oops I meant "I" tell you, not O tell you -nt

[Eloriel]

70. Unfortunately, NC laws don't support much -- but

a panel has been appointed, and it includes one of our very own DUers, David Allen (Plan9_Pub is his DU name, I think) of Plan9 Publishing (also blackboxvoting.COM ).

[politicasista]

66. I hope you guys are right

I thought Kerry would win in a landslide, but look where that got us.

[ccarter84]

65. ooooh

my spidey sense is goin crazy in anticipation....yea ok reverted to a 5th grade moment there, but ya get the idea...good prediction Rosco T. I agree that by the end of the week after people have loaded up on tryptophan and aren't paying attention to the news, some more major stuff might come out.
Here's hoping, and have a good holiday all!!
:toast:
-CC

[stlsaxman]

71. Hey you were right! OOOPS- wrong country...

... or were you talking about Ukraine?

[bones_7672]

72. It's almost 5pm EST, 11/24, and a big fat NOTHING! n/t

[briemann]

73. Please stay positive!

Everyone: Please stay positive! We can't get cynical now. I am an alcohholic, and my optimism for a Kerry presidency has actually kept me sober for the past few days.

If I can believe, so can you.

[bullimiami]

74. Oh well roscoe. I hoped you were prescient.

oops maybe you were. you just got the country wrong.

[GayGuyinCalifornia]

76. *IMPORTANT* Response from Lake County Ohio on recount

I received the following email response from Jan Clair, regarding her comments that the recount would be "frivolous."



"Please be advised that we will conduct a recount, at the appropriate time. The law provides a mechanism for the recount and certainly, that request will be honored.

My comments spoke to a procedural question. We have received a request for a recount prior to the election being certified by the Secretary of State. I am meeting with our Prosecutor to determine if I can hold on to the check or need to return the check until the appropriate time it may be requested.

Please understand that a recount is a reaffirmation of what we do in conducting the official count. I have no problem whatsoever in doing whatever is requested and will do whatever is requested by law. And, I have never felt that any part of our election process is frivolous...."


Respectfully,

Jan Clair, Director

[texpatriot2004]

77. You know Rosco, I think you may have been on to something.

While I was hoping for a real fraud flood, I do think the dam is leaking and your dates were right on. :thumbsup:

[dzika]

78. Village Voice - "...the media are ignoring the stories..."

The media knows that the vote fraud issues are being ignored.

This article was published in the Village Voice (last story on the page).

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0447/murphy.php

-snip-
"If you think the media are ignoring stories about flaws in the presidential election, you are not alone. Letters to the Voice charge that the media (including this newspaper) have prematurely dismissed reports of polling problems. Electronic-voting critic Bev Harris claims there's a "lockdown" on reporting the story. "

"At the heart of the matter in Ohio, two reporters at the Cleveland Plain Dealer say there is a little newsroom griping over whether the paper has been doing enough. The Dealer has run pieces on discrepancies in vote reports and long waits at the local polls. "

"Other election stories lurk. Outside Ohio, a few outlets are paying attention to a statistical study from the University of California at Berkeley that finds an odd relationship between electronic voting and votes for Bush in Florida: The presence of touch-screen voting correlated with an increase in the Bush total from 2000 to 2004. And inside Ohio, third-party candidates say they'll pay for a recount once the official tally is done around December 1. The vote is still out on whether the rest of the media will notice. "

[dzika]

79. The Moscow Times: Bush wins with "fraud-marred majority"

The story just mentions "fraud" in passing.


From: The Moscow Times
Friday November 6, 2004

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2004/11/26/120.html

-snip-
"There has been much throwing about of brains on the subject of
George W. Bush's further lurch to the Right since he limped over the
election finish line with his tiny, 1 percent, fraud-marred
majority. "

[texpatriot2004]

80. What a fantastic article about the "Bush-wing"

I loved this article about how sick and greedy the Bush family is and how they have always been. The "maggot of greed" image is so true. Bush family 101 get yours and screw others...it's those moral values. Funny how the public always picks up the tab for their family values. George teach Neil and W not to steal. Thanks for the post.

[seito]

89. Loved the article

This probably deserves its own thread, if it is not out there already.

:kick:

[dzika]

81. Chicago Sun-Times: Jackson rallies for Ohio vote probe

Chicago Sun-Times

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-ohio28.html

Jackson rallies for Ohio vote probe

November 28, 2004

BY STEPHANIE ZIMMERMANN Staff Reporter

-snip-
"The Rev. Jesse L. Jackson and the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition are
planning to hold rallies today and Monday in Ohio to press for an
investigation of alleged voting irregularities in the closely
contested state."

[dzika]

82. Newsweek - "Four More Years to Finally Get It Right"

This article is mostly about the technology of election reform but he makes a good case for allowing recounts and other election investigations.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6595385/site/newsweek/

Newsweek
Dec. 6 Issue
Four More Years to Finally Get It Right
By Steven Levy

-snip-
"After the 2000 debacle, one might have expected that our leaders would move mountains to make the next election an exemplary one. The fact that we cannot convince the doubters proves otherwise. Don't call them paranoid, but recognize their passion for fairly run, accurately tabulated elections. If only their zeal were more contagious. "

[dzika]

83. Cincinnati Enquirer - "Jackson questions Ohio election tally"

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041128/NEWS01/411280435

The Enquirer (Cincinnati.com)
Sunday, November 28, 2004
Jackson questions Ohio election tally

By Reid Forgrave
Enquirer staff writer

-snip-
"The Rev. Jesse Jackson is to lead rallies in Columbus today and in
Cincinnati on Monday to encourage Ohio to seek an investigation of
the presidential vote. Jackson is to speak at Integrity Hall, 2081
Seymour Ave., Bond Hill, at 8:30 a.m. Monday."

[texpatriot2004]

84. Kick

[bones_7672]

86. Somehow I don't think Jackson has much sway ...

... with the powers that be in Ohio. All show. Jesse just wants to be relevent.

[Patsy Stone]

85. Anyone know Bush filed one day late in FL?

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/09/11/Decision2004/Did_Bush_camp_err_on_.shtml

From the St. Pete Times, dated 9/11/04:
Did Bush camp err on ballot papers?
Democrats say the president may have missed Florida's filing deadline, but say they don't plan a challenge.

[texpatriot2004]

87. kick

[texpatriot2004]

88. Kick

[texpatriot2004]

90. kick