More missing ballots turn up in Pinellas County - Florida

[soup]

Twelve absentee and provisional ballots are discovered days after a box of 268 uncounted absentees was found.

By DAVID KARP, Times Staff Writer
Published November 19, 2004

LARGO - Pinellas election officials said Thursday they had found 12 more uncounted ballots as they dug through boxes in their office this week.

Two uncounted absentee ballots were sitting unopened in a box that was headed to the warehouse for storage. And 10 provisional ballots were sitting in a blue pouch in a loading dock area. No one had noticed they had not been counted.
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/19/Tampabay/More_missing_ballots_.shtml

but, that's not all!!!
Buried in the article

The missing 268 absentee ballots found the other day? -

>The votes tallied Thursday would not have changed the outcome of any race. If the votes were included in state totals, President Bush would still beat John Kerry in Pinellas, but by 69 fewer votes.

Ralph Nader would pick up three votes, and U.S. Senate candidate Betty Castor would gain 92 votes.<

[flordehinojos]

1. They ought to decertify the fla. elections and COUNT every darn vote

becase 1. IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. and 2. Every little bit helps.
Who knows how many more votes are out there uncounted and missing which will reappear at a convenient time when it no longer matters because the royal @ss will have been re-sealed into the oval office.

But, this thing about finding missing votes here and there, and in trash bags like the ones Bev Harris and her crew recently found (was it somewhere in Florida?)make me think of a killer who does not know what to do with his victim and just leaves pieces of it strewn all over the place. Either the bushes' thought process has sunk down low to a very disorganized level, or that of the goons they pay has.

[genieroze]

2. Old Mac Bushie had Karl Rove E I E I O, and with

Karl Rove he had Diebold E I E I O, with a ballot, ballot, here and a ballot, ballot, there, here a ballot there a ballot, ballot, everywhere a rigged election. Old Mac Bushie had Karl Rove E I E I O.

[Straight Shooter]

24. LOL.

Sometimes a laugh breaks through the fog of despair.

[Pacifist Patriot]

27. Don't get that song stuck in my head.

[Spangle]

3. Missed in the Audit?

This should have been KNOWN when they did thier audit.

HUMAN error will happen. I KNOW that. People are hired just for elections. And elections are not a daily process.

That said. The audit system in place in alot of these countys are to out dated. And are not verifiable enough. The information should be posted on the web and in detail on a DAILY bases. THat "daily" has to be stated in the law. Or else they will delay posting anything of us for public audit.

They should have been able to state days ago that they were MISSING the ballots. The fact that they were not able to means that those ballots were included in the "toss" so the numbers would "match." THis must have been done automaticly since they didn't "know." This is unacceptable!

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Castor lost by only 1.1% to Martinez

According to FL law, 1% or less would have triggered an automatic recount.

Maybe we can find a few more boxes of votes?

[leftchick]

5. it sounds like it may be time to go dumpster diving...

and perhaps some brave soul could actually check the local landfills!

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. It's time for a court order to lock down all the Board of Elections

offices in FL.

Florida is a Sunshine Law state. Everything is public record. All Board of Elections offices are open to the public. Anybody can request copies of anything.

Time to start asking for copies of their records before they 'disappear'.

[leftchick]

11. It certainly would give those Kerry lawyers....

I helped pay for something to do! What a 'Raw Deal!'
:grr:

[colonel odis]

14. maybe 50-100 people should go in the offices and start requesting

copies of records. then call a television news.

not a picture the g.o.p. would like to have on the tube. it's one thing for lawyers to tie things up in court. but when average citizens start showing up, it reminds them pitchforks and torches aren't out of the question.

[life_long_dem]

9. This is Democracy?

Looking for our votes in a landfill?

The whole country should recount the votes, we may find out bush lost more states than people think.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. That is evidence of foul play.

Where the hell is the FBI in all this?

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. I don't the FBI

would be issuing a press release if they are.

[Pacifist Patriot]

26. If they are there, they'll be flying under the radar.

I doubt they'd invite a journalist to assist in the investigation.

[soup]

10. Math - 268 absentee votes - Kerry Gains 69

My husband worked this out for me. (my brain is just NOT functioning)

>If the votes were included in state totals, President Bush would still beat John Kerry in Pinellas, but by 69 fewer votes.<

If the 268 absentee ballots were the ones tallied, and Kerry gained 69 votes on ** (Nader got 3)

Then the 268 absentee ballots 'found' ran:
167 Kerry
98 **
3 Nader

---

>Senate candidate Betty Castor would gain 92 votes.<
180 Castor
88 Martinez

Not quite sure where the Veteran Party's Bradley would fit in there, but that's a huge percentage for Castor.

---

If these numbers are correct, based on the very small sampling of 268 found absentee ballots, the numbers significantly broke for Democrats.

But, hey, the Supervisor of Elections is sorry. That's what matters, right?

I may go completely insane.

[bluedog]

12. I'm a Pinellas voter

and have talked before to this woman...I asked her about any problems when we had our governors race here.where Jebby got the votes........she said everything was counted and granted the lines went smoothly......
being a voter here .in her district I expect her to follow through and call the voters..........as this year I voted absentee.I want to know that my vote counted........

this is a piss poor way to conduct elections.......and I for one am going to write every newspaper and bitch like no tomorrow...I want a paper trail......and if we unite here in Fl we can get it done..........flood the offices and our so called reps with mails demanding to get this done......

as no election will EVER be considered legal and the voice of the voters until this problem is solved.

[BlueDog2u]

13. Hi BlueDog

Go for it!

[Straight Shooter]

28. Bluedog, send this to votersunite, they're keeping a tally

http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?sort=state&selectstate=NV&selectproblemtype=ALL

It's an excellent site. By the way, of 380 problems I saw on there last night, 57 were in Florida, and 50 in Ohio, with 17 in Pennsylvania. That means three states comprised one-third of the reported problems. And if voting "irregularities" is like any other offense, the reported problems are significantly less than the actual occurrences.

[anamandujano]

16. Makes you wonder how many of the dem house and senate

members who have been voted out of congress have really been voted out. They've been dropping like flies for several elections. Remember when Newt Gingrich took over as Speaker? Even thought the machines have just been around since 2000 (?) and the exit polls have been "wrong" since 2000, this little vote tuck away thing has probably been going on a long time.

Also, in regard to a post up 3 or 4 from here suggesting a country wide recount. It makes me think about how in 2000, when anyone spoke of flipping a state, the talking heads would say that then the republicans would ask for a recount in such and such a state, etc--thus making it sound like an endless process that would even out in the end and give us the same result, Bush. My thought is this--since they most likely padded in every state and evidence would show because of the radical padding (to get the huge popular margin), epecially in the battleground states, I don't think they can play that game this time. The repulicans will not be asking for recounts anywhere because the evidence will go against them--and they know it better than we do.

[BlueDog2u]

15. Pinellas county overall

is registered slightly republican more than democratic.

http://www.votepinellas.com/VRStats.aspx?MajorPartyByPrecinct=1

[truehawk]

17. So they Selectively "lost" absentee ballots?

[truehawk]

18. They "lost" a few hundred here, a few hundred there

[soup]

19. In a county that has 8,108 more Republicans

registered than Democrats-

Republican: 231,652
Democrat: 223,544


Kerry gets 167 votes out of 268 when the 'found' ballots are counted? Something is way off here.

I'm getting a 'numbers' headache.

[BlueDog2u]

21. Well, I was thinking the same....

Eexcept of course that some precincts are more Democrat than others, so the results might be explained on that basis.

[soup]

22. Okay, that makes sense.

Thank you. Depends on where in the county the absentees came from. I hadn't thought of that. (one of many reasons I love these forums)

Now, if I could just remember how many voting machines my precinct had in 2000 as opposed to 2004, maybe that would explain away the overflowing parking lot and incredibly long lines this year (about 1 1/2 hour wait) - when the results show that only 55 more people voted here in 2004 than 2000 - and we had no lines in 2000.

Thanks, again :hi:

[sled]

30. Pinellas & Collier - Where's the "moral values" beef?

This is excluding the "lost" Pinellas votes, which appear not to have
been included, yet, at the "official" Pinellas website.

If all this "moral values" hogwash, is to be believed, why didn't the
Repubs show up, in at least two counties, Pinellas & Collier???

Possibly more counties, but Collier County caught my eye, initially,
because it's literally an "evangelical" ant farm, down here. With
plenty of early voting, etc., where's the beef??? A lot of no-shows,
instead of a heavy turnout, for the Repubs.

A good turnout, for both parties, no doubt, but the Repubs, under-
performed, compared to their number of registrations.

Both were "E-Touch Voting" counties...& seem to reflect the "exit
polls", with a better Dem turnout, crossover vote, etc., versus the
Reps.

* * * *

Pinellas Registration

Republican: 231,652
Democrat: 223,544


PARTY TURNOUT - Pinellas Actual Votes - As % Of Party Registrations

Republican: 225,627 - 97.4%
Democrats: 225,367 - 100.8%

* * * *

Collier Registration

Republican: 89,559
Democrat: 41,082


PARTY TURNOUT - Collier Actual Votes - As % Of Party Registrations

Republican: 83,631 - 93.4%
Democrats: 43,892 - 106.8%

[Mike Nelson]

20. This is how Bush "won" the popular vote (nt)

*

[Wordie]

23. Have MANY small fiddles ulimately resulted in ONE BIG fraud? n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. It's driving me crazy I tell you.

Inch by inch....

[nashville_brook]

31. have you noticed...

everytime they "find" a box of votes, the conventional wisdom is 'it doesn't matter, it wouldn't change the outcome, anyway."

this is crap! yes, they DO matter. every vote matters. why are all these orphaned votes showing up in boxes under people's desks or out in warehouses? how do we know there's not truckloads somewhere?

this is outrageous -- it DOES change the outcome -- it changes it b/c not all the votes are accounted for! where's the rest? where's the REAL poll tapes?

[Pacifist Patriot]

32. Exactly!!!!!!

[Hobbes199]

29. And every one in favor of Bush?

That's freaking weird.

[Pacifist Patriot]

33. I am sitting here tapping my fingers on the desk waiting for

a pro-Kerry error to rise to the surface of the swamp we call free democratic elections.