Hot damn! Kerry mentions voting!

[Generator]

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[xultar]

1. TOOO late.... I thought he reported for duty, NOT! n/t

[David Dunham]

5. Ther fact is Kerry lost the election, and that's the bottom line.

We need to worry about the future --2006 and 2008.

[lostnfound]

20. The future is now -- hasn't "lost" until electoral college meets.

And a better 'bottom line' than 'he lost' is 'we need to build an election system that is fair and reliable'.

[pacalo]

28. That hasn't been decided yet.

And yes, we do need to worry about the future: By ensuring ALL the votes have been counted & that no band of thugs can take away our power & duty to vote for the candidate of OUR choice.

The future is NOW.

[Nordic]

29. bullshit. If we don't fix e-voting, all future elections are pointless

Get used to it.

Don't waste your time talking about who we're gonna run, or what we're gonna stand for, it's a complete waste of time and energy unless we fix the voting problems.

I strongly suspect anyone who says otherwise

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. Without electoral integrity...

Representative democracy is just an illusion.

[Nordic]

47. exactly. It's just part of the bread and circuses

to keep people thinking they're living in a democracy.

I am shocked at the complancy of the american people following this election, the level of blind acceptance to what they've been told.

[coreystone]

104. Paper Ballots, Manual Counting, with Bi-Partisan Monitors....

So how do we do that???

:think:

[jean]

86. since '06 and '08 involve the process of voting it's imperative to nail

election fraud now, while it is fresh and steamy and we have evidence to work with.

We are a large and capable group (all who voted for Kerry/Edwards) - and can multi-task. What aspect of this effort/worry for '06/'08 do you want to work on?

[politicasista]

77. Is this good or bad news?

don't know.

[Oreo]

2. Hmmm...

This looks to me like Kerry is saying it's not over yet.

"Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause."

That's a passage from a message Sen. John Kerry will be sending out to supporters later this afternoon.

[glitch]

15. Oh YES! Thank you! I woke up depressed this morning and that brought me

right out of it! Thank you!

[Rose Siding]

3. An identical statement could have been made four years ago

Will each politician have to be personally screwed before they commit to this issue?

[Rawls vs Nozick]

9. It's not just what they say

It's when they say it.

In political speech, it's important to look at not just the message in and of itself, but also the message's timing and audience.

-RvN-

[Generator]

11. It's either a fricking bone or manna from heaven

depending on your Kerry position.

Bu he has acknowledged our gripe. Has the DLC said there is an issue-or just move on?

What is done with it remains to be seen, I agree.

[intelle]

4. Sounds like Kerry is getting tough!

Go Kerry!!!!

:toast:

[New Earth]

7. awesome words

yeah, it's definately not over

[HEAVYHEART]

98. He better get tough!

I wonder if he read our forums. heeeheee..

[Her Blondness]

115. The Kerry campaign will rise like Glenn Close from the bath tub!!!!!

Just when the repugs think it's dead.... perfect GOP horror movie.

:headbang:

[bleever]

6. Patience, patience...even if B* is inaugurated, he won't escape

the consequences here. We've got to stay on the job.

[smartvoter]

8. Is this a step toward a challenge?

What do you think?

[bluetrain]

10. sounds like it to me

[smartvoter]

14. Nevermind -- We were all posting at the same time.

This is encouraging...

[L84TEA]

16. BINGO!!

that is why it has been soo hush hush...

[bmoney07]

21. Encouraging

this is a start,

Lets see if the DNC/Kerry have any gonads to make sure EVERY VOTE IS COUNTED - CORRECTLY

:D

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

52. right...you are hilarious

but I think you may have the wrong board

[smartvoter]

54. As if Cons wouldn't be yelling...

"RECOUNT, REVOTE, FRAUD!!!!" If the errors were pointing the other direction.

[dkofos]

116. Actually they are.

The god squad is up in arms over the slot machine vote passing in Florida. They are demanding a recount and want to look into electronic voting.
This has to do with the vote counting machines counting to 32k and then decrimenting back to 0.
The only way to make them look at the vote fraud problem is for them to be on the loosing side.
Maybe there is a god.
:bounce: :bounce:

[BlueDog2u]

57. Let's see, the votes are only counted correctly when the outcome is that

your side wins, correct?

Freep for yourself.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

59. okay i'm new here - but I have noticed

a ton of freepers here in the past couple of days - are they getting nervous? Or are there always this many around?

[txindy]

61. They're way past nervous, they're terrified

They always yap when they're afraid and they've been yapping non-stop for days now, ever since the news about NH, FL, and OH really started to come through. Hmmm, coincidence? ;)

[rockedthevoteinMA]

63. Sweeeet!!! :) n/t

[glitch]

64. It's a very good sign! nt

[Solitaire]

58. ummm

a. how did you get to post with only 2 posts? and,

b. I'm glad you like our country being owned by Japan and China. When you have to learn Japanese, because it's the national language, then we'll see how much you laugh.

[pacalo]

32. He's throwing us a hint that we shouldn't count him out yet.

The fact that he's throwing this out now could be that he has reason to feel more confident. In any case, this message is an indication that the silence of all our Democratic leadership was due to a strategy of party composure -- maintaining credibility while gathering evidence. I see a lot of hope in that message. :)

[htuttle]

12. Of course he mentions voting

Do you think he hasn't noticed all the thousands of angry emails he's received on it?

[madmax]

13. This is good

Let's not dis Kerry for what he may or may not have done - shoulda, coulda, woulda...whatever. WE need someone inside to lead the fight to get this voting mess fixed or we'll never see the light of day again. Let's join him.

I'd love to see Bev Harris and Greg Palast testifying before the Senate ;)

[JD Lau]

Yes, I second that.

[JudyM]

40. Third. And let's hope it happens, and with a lot of media buzz.

Hope I'm not tilting at windmills here...

[ahyums]

17. this is it Kerry is now getting involved properly

the key passage is "regardless of the outcome" that means he is going to say the outcome is still in question, this is what we have been waiting for!

[KeireG]

19. Yes!

This is it. I knew he was behind the scenes, I knew it.

[ruthg]

18. ah hah.....slowly but steadily

the words are coming out....

Damn, I feel like Fox Mulder with a sign on the wall saying,

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

I really do want to believe that Kerry is watching all of this develop and will be there when the time is right...and it seems to be getting closer.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

23. Yes. He is thinking tactically and strategically.

Some here are not. Some here would rather he don animal skins, grab a club and take to bashing heads, willy-nilly.

Would you have wanted such qualities in a President, should he have been elected?

More whine than The Gallo Brothers around here lately.

[pacalo]

35. ITA! Some think a scrappy fight will take care of everything...

NOT! Kerry loses all credibility & loses his effectiveness when he plays into their hands.

[Borgnine]

65. YES!

"Some here are not. Some here would rather he don animal skins, grab a club and take to bashing heads, willy-nilly."

That sounds AWESOME! Seriously. With the Democrats being pushovers for the last four years, I'd pay a nice chunk of cash to see that.

[ruthg]

70. well that would be fun to watch

( the animal skin club thing) it is probably not a good strategy.

[cilla4progress]

94. Positive Engagement

I don't know how it will turn out, or if they really will count all the votes, or if we'll ever believe that Bush won if they don't...but I am very relieved and happy to see that Kerry is still engaged at this level.

In fact, I'm going to "pretend" he's my President (sort of like Bartlet on WW?) - and perhaps he is for the half of us who voted for him - at the very least, my national leader, as we move forward through the next 4 years. There's nothing that says I have to accept Bush as my leader on any level, and if and to the extent that Kerry has proposals that head a different direction than the Administration's, well that's just fine with me and I choose to follow him! I'm going to raise hell for this administration and send e-mails on every damn issue to every damn legislator till pigs fly and the cows come home.

Join me?

C.

[madison2000]

103. Can we have CJ and Josh too?

:tinfoilhat: Sorry, they're my fantasy White House :eyes:

[Her Blondness]

114. YES!!!!!

John F. Kerry is MY president. We are half a nation, we need a leader.

I want Kerry to stay very visible, as a spokesperson for blue America. I hope he doesn't fade away, like Gore did. He should stay in the public eye as the voice of the opposition for the next four hellish years.

With Bush in Office, the USA as we knew it is dead. Long live Blue USA, and President Kerry.

[WiseFawn]

22. WooHoo!

Sounds good to me!

[mirandapriestly]

24. It Definitely Sounds Like He is Responding To the Allegations

of Fraud, why else would he say that? Maybe he will take the stand of wanting to make sure there is confidence in the decision rather than trying to overturn the results

[pacalo]

37. Miranda

Maybe he will take the stand of wanting to make sure there is confidence in the decision rather than trying to overturn the results

If that had been the purpose of the message, he would have been more concise & to the point -- there would be no reason to speak so guardedly, would there? It's a read-between-the-lines message of hope.

[mirandapriestly]

44. Oh, I sure hope so! Nothing would make me happier! n/t

[GetTheRightVote]

25. Hurray !!!!!!!!!

Perhaps, just perhaps, we have a champion at last who will be on our side. Every vote should be counted and all elections should be free for all Americans. That is the bottom line and the reason we are fighting to have our combined voices heard in the world around us. I can not wait to hear what he has to say. Though no matter what he speaks of today this cause is ours and he will either decide to join us or to talk us out of it, but we will not be stopped and left behind anymore, we will be heard and continue the good fight which has grown over the years. Though history is unfriendly to us the future is not, the future is filled with hope if only we will step and make it so. If Kerry joins us, yes it will help greatly, but never forget this is about us, "We The People" of these United States of American, we are the voice which must continue until justice is served, it is our voice which will make the difference, do you not see it at work right now.

[boi1946]

33. Kerry is a dogged investigator

who worked for a long time on BCCI, the MIA question, Iran-Contra. I didn't know much about him until about 6 months before the election. I hadn't followed politics, really, for years, until I became so enraged about how B* was trashing my home state.
But when I started researching John Kerry, the more I learned, the more he impressed me. He has an unbelievable commitment to JUSTICE--and his Senate record confirms it. One of his drawbacks, maybe, was that he was a Senator for so long that he didn't realize that we ordinary folks don't really "speak politics" and also don't fully understand how the wheels of justice do grind slowly....
At the Moderate Independent a few days ago there was a letter from a Kerry lawyer talking about 30 points the Kerry camp was challenging the vote in Ohio on....and I knew that my "gut feeling" was right, and that Kerry would not give up without a fight. And that although he wants to win, as we all hope he will, it would be as important as winning to him that he see our votes honarably and fairly counted.
With the support of all of us, and the Greens, the Nader folks, Bev Harris, all the others, I strongly believe that justice will be served!

[pacalo]

39. I appreciate your point of view.

Welcome to DU, boi946! :hi:

[JudyM]

43. If he leads this, it will be his greatest legacy to democracy

... assuming the recount doesn't get him elected, that is ...

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[boi1946]

60. Thanks for the welcome!

My son recommended this site.
One of the best things JK did that I forgot in the above post was his protest against the Viet Nam war.
I only participated in 2 marches, in what seems now to be forever ago, but we had the power then, and we still have it now.

[smartvoter]

56. Do you have a link to that letter?

I don't think I've seen it out here.

[boi1946]

76. link to letter

HTTP://www.11alive.com/news_article.aspx?storyid#54721

Don't think I read too much into it...when a lawyer says he has a question to present he usually has a motive for it.

[boi1946]

82. Well, who said I was computer savvy?

that's an = sign instead of a # before 54721.
Need to get my son to show me how to copy links....

[Pooka Fey]

71. Great post.

[merh]

101. Kerry was a prosecutor before a Senator

he is accustomed to investigations that are secretitive (grand jury investigations and deliberations are in secret).

The most effective way to conduct an investigation is in secret! That way the perps don't have a chance to destroy evidence and cover their tracks.(imho)

[rockedthevoteinMA]

26. I just googled Kerry + BCCI

I found this on Alternet dated 10/22/04
Don't know if it's any thing real, but I found this part hopeful (that Kerry has worked w/the head of the FBI before on bringing down the corruption of the B*sh family empire)

"The New York Fed — not Washington — also took action. It coordinated an action on the fourth of July weekend 1991 to shut BCCI down. And, finally, the DA’s investigation forced Washington to act, though it kept the case as limited as possible. Soon after, Assistant Attorney General Robert S. Mueller III (now head of the FBI) oversaw the indictment by a federal grand jury of Democratic influence-peddler and former Johnson Defense Secretary Clark Clifford and his protégé Robert Altman — the top officials of First American Bank — for misleading the Federal Reserve Board about BCCI's secret control of the bank and obstructing the Fed's inquiries into BCCI."

it's on page 6 out of 7 if you print it out.

http://www.alternet.org/election04/20268/

edit: forgot to post link

[mzmolly]

27. The entire quote is important because ....

"Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause." ~ John Kerry

:toast:

My faith in Mr. Kerry has been restored!!!! :cry:

[GetTheRightVote]

30. May God Bless you John Kerry/John Edwards

Finally, I man I can stand behind, I hope this means what I think it does. At last, faith & hope springs eternal. By the way, congrats for coming back and joining in this fight for voting rights, J & J. I hope you will join us in all the fights for justice that we may need to face.

[Generator]

31. The key word is transparency, I agree

What we have now is a secretive government with voting results handled by private companies, and those in power stealthly planning to make the exit polls next time non-existant or not made public.

This has to be a top priority and we have to hold our leaders to the fire on this or it's over. They need to know if they want our votes, we want to make damn sure they are counted.

[zann725]

36. The key phrase is: "I ask you to join me in THIS cause."

n/t:kick:

[pacalo]

42. This phrase is very telling, too...

Regardless of the OUTCOME of this election

The election has NOT been finalized. Bushitler's "victory" could be a temporary glory. Could that be why he's shuffling cabinet members into "new" positions instead of committing new people, which would require them to leave steady careers? Hmmm.

[rockymountaindem]

34. And some people are saying that he should "just go away"...

I think that even if he doesn't become President, he'll be twice as effective in the Senate as ever before (and we all know his accomplishments with Iran Contra and BCCI). I will continue to look to Kerry for a little hope. I was in his corner from the get-go this time and I'll be there again if he runs in 2008.

Please stop hating this man.

[bunny planet]

48. I have never believed John Kerry was 'rolling over' on this.

It is just not consistent with the man's principles and actions over the years. Sorry to sound like a fundaholic (which I'm not) but, God bless John Kerry. He's going to have a fight on his hands again. We need to keep on this, and continue to agitate at the grass roots level. That's what I'm getting from his statement, and that he is doing his part and has been all along, under the radar.

I've felt pretty much all along that John Edwards was also a fighter. He once said that after the death of his son a few years ago nothing anybody could ever throw at him would be worse than going through that. As a parent I totally understand what he meant. If there is something there to fight for, these guys are going to fight. I think that they were both concerned for the better part of these two weeks, understandably, with Elizabeth Edward's cancer scare and how that personal difficulty might impact their lives, especially the Edwards family. The priority the first week was with Elizabeth, as it should be. Those are the real family values everybodies been talking about HELLO.

Now that she is OK, John and John can roll up their sleeves and get ready to rumble, because make no mistake it's going to be messy. They absolutely had to wait until after Fallujah to get involved with a public exposure of 'voting irregularities (gotta love that euphemism) and now they are beginning to show their hand. They have been fighting behind the scenes all along, I know it.

:kick: :yourock: :loveya: John and John.

[txindy]

62. Well said

I agree with you, bunny planet. :toast:

I can't remember if I've said this before, but welcome to DU! :hi:

[bunny planet]

72. Thank you.

:hi: right back at ya.

[boi1946]

83. AMEN!!!

[RunningFromCongress]

41. I think the MOST IMPORTANT part of that was the first line

Says that the outcome is still undetermined....that means something

He didn't say "Eventhough we lost this one, I'll fight for"

[Karenca]

107. Could someone send me a link of Kerry's letter?

Thank you !}(

[glitch]

45. Anybody else getting the feeling Kerry just turned the boat around?

yeeeaaaarrrrrggggghhhh!!

Just as I was starting to get down about it all.

His timing is impeccable.

[gasperc]

46. maybe he saw my missing 218,931 missing vote post

a BIG story I think

[ElementaryPenguin]

99. I think he just turned it around BIG TIME!! He's not backing down.

He wants us to continue our efforts to expose the fraud. He will step in at the right moment (without being crucified by the press).

[ElementaryPenguin]

49. He KNOWS now that there WAS fraud, we're NOT giving up and neither can HE

:bounce:

[Lisabtrucking]

50. Dont give up!

I just wanted to say. The fraud of this election is being proved, by a wonderful thoughtful woman (Bev Harris) ‘Blackboxvoting.org”. We all need to thank this woman, for she is protecting our rights for a truthful election. I ask everyone to send her a thank you at her web site.

We need to keep up the fight to have our voices heard, send these media outlets an email demanding they report the news accurately. If we don’t keep up the fight they will have won.

We now see that the republicans in our government are immoral. By allowing an indicted person to keep their job in our government is beyond reasoning.

These people have stolen our election, and they need to be held accountable for the theft.
Send John Kerry a message let him know we have not given up the fight for our right to elect who we want for our president, so don’t give up on us. Send all democrats a message that we expect them to join John Kerry in the fight for our presidency, and we will be there to back them up. Let them know we have their backs, now help protect our backs. This needs to be done now.

[TexasChick]

53. Come on, Kerry! I knew I had a crush on you for some reason! Your

brilliance and your resolve to bring criminals to justice! Impress me more, baby!

[New Earth]

55. lol

me too! weird stuff.

[ruthg]

68. speaking of crush

Although I was originally a Dean fan I have to say that I did have quite the little crush on Senator Kerry ...kinda from the beginning.

Unseemly for someone my age ( still younger than he is though)


But of course my true love remains Jon Stewart

[txindy]

69. You crack me up!

Not that I don't agree with you, though. ;)

Now, see, it ain't over 'til it's over. Right? :toast: First we overturn OH or FL for 'errors' and THEN we go for the fraud convictions over the next four years.

[TexasChick]

75. LOL! That's why I love DU and it's members. Helps keep me in line!

Helps keep me going in the face of uncertainty! Go, Kerry! Please give me a reason to believe!

Where are you in Texas, txindy? I'm from McKinney! Were you ever on the Kerry blog? There were a couple of Texans from the Kerry blog who were Independents. One was a lawyer from Houston.


:toast:

[txindy]

79. Hill Country

Too close to Crawford, if you ask me. ;)

I never made it to the Kerry blog. This board moves fast enough for me, I couldn't keep up with two! Lol!

Keep believing. This is not over. :toast:

[unpossibles]

66. nice

I really hope this comes out and comes down hard on the right (Wrong) people.

Thank you JK.

[klebean]

67. Anonymous on smirkingchimp

This is the leading article on their site.
I'm going to email to all I can, then sign my name to it under "anonymous".
(mods - don't know if this is in keeping w/protocol here...sorry if I erred)

Anonymous: 'Dumb me down'
Posted on Friday, November 19 @ 10:07:19 EST
By Anonymous

Well, I've given myself the requisite two weeks to "calm down" after the election. It hasn't worked.

I'm not angry that George W. Bush is president. He was elected, finally, which is what we do in America (if you overlook the fact that literally every irregularity in the voting benefited Bush). I'm scared that he's president, but I am not angry about it, per se.

No, my anger is reserved for the half of the voting population of this country which has shut down its thinking to such a degree that such a man could be handed the power of the office of President of the United States. This man had no business being president once, let alone twice. And that this isn't obvious to 51% of our population is what is disturbing.

I imagine how a third grader awarded the starring role as king in the school play would portray that role, and that is what I see when President Bush crosses my television screen.



It is manifested in the almost comical faux Reagan power strut, the obsession with might and power, the misuse of our military for personal revenge, corporate gain, and, by his own admission, political capital,  and the dictatorial style with which Bush is governing (the latest: the purging of the CIA of anyone who isn't loyal to the president. Yet we are supposed to believe that no pressure was put on these people to provide trumped up evidence to support invading Iraq?).

His has been a tenure of relentless grabs, subtle and not so subtle, at more and more concentrated power for himself, of immodest and constant reminders that he is our "leader", of his arrogance in turning a deaf ear to anyone with a difference of opinion or information that does not comport with his agenda, often resulting in the brutal smearing of such people. Since the election, numerous Bush Administration members have given speeches brazenly and without shame chastising anyone who dares to question the president. These are hardly American, let alone Christian, principles. 

America is not a dictatorship, or at least hasn't been until now. America is about the People, not one man, but I feel that slipping away. However, I do not blame Bush for this. 

Rove & Co. have shrouded over this obvious decline into dictatorial rule by appealing to what is most base in human beings: fear, hatred, and a false sense of moral superiority; in short, ignorance. Those who support this gang are responsible for allowing it to work.

The division in America is not in fact drawn by moral issues, much as the media would like to cajole us into believing.  All human beings struggle with their demons and trip up morally now and then, except for our mistake-less president. (It is indeed ironic that more people should die when a president is so morally perfect as to make virtually no mistakes than when presidential personal transgressions occur).  Rather, the lines dividing America are class and intellect.

A wave of anti-intellectualism is spreading like an insurgency in a certain Middle Eastern country. But this begs the question, who is really calling who dumb?

It is taken for granted that those in the blue states think those in the red states are intellectually inferior. Red staters defiantly lash out at the "liberal elite" in the northeast. They defensively claim that Democrats don't grasp the values of rural America and that until we do, we will be lost in the wilderness of intellect, informed analysis,  and sophisticated and contemplative thought. Huh? These are bad things?

Despite the pummeling we on the left have taken, by moral, compassionate conservatives who say they want America unified, by being called unpatriotic, immoral, ungodly, un-American, Saddam and Osama lovers (even though it was left-leaning, Kerry-supporting areas of the country that were attacked and we who, by and large, lost relatives, neighbors and friends on 9/11), those who hurl such hateful slurs at us recoil in anger and hurt when they interpret criticism from the left as calling them dumb. They also swear revenge by promising to send the country evermore rightward and dumbward.

But one must admit that the "D" word has been tossed about recently, often directed by blue staters at red staters. But whether red staters are inherently more stupid than blue staters (they aren't) is beside the point. It is illogical to even make such a claim, just as it is illogical to claim that Democrats are more immoral than Republicans. Intelligence, like morality, has nothing to do with political affiliation or philosophy or geography.  

No, the issue is who is treating the red staters as though they are stupid, and I would argue that no one is doing so more than Karl Rove & Co.

Think about it.  John Kerry spoke to people as though he was having an actual dialogue with them.  He spoke of the complexities of the world. He assumed his audience was smart enough to grasp the things he said, and half of us were, without any problem. He did not dumb down his words.  He spoke in complete conceptual terms.  He treated the voters as intelligent adults who can think and understand the intent and context of what he said without need for follow-up explanations. Maybe that was because in the "elitist" northeast, where the population is highly educated, they got it on the first shot, and Sen. Kerry took that for granted and treated all Americans in such a manner.

President Bush spoke in slogans and clichès and relied heavily on buzzwords. That is treating your audience like they are morons. 

I can hear Rove now: "Mr. President, just repeat, 'He can run, but he cannot hide' over and over! They'll eat it up! They'll cheer you on, and you will not have actually said anything or need to explain why, after being attacked by religious fundamentalists on 9/11, we have spent 200 billion dollars and 1300 American lives to attack a secular country that had no intention of attacking us and did not attack us and by sheer coincidence you had said in 1999 that you'd like to invade to get political capital and to be seen as a great leader and commander-in-chief!"

Or,

"Mr. President, go with that 'more liberal than the senior senator from Massachusetts' thing again! They'll be roaring so loud, they will not hear you when you explain to them why it is their incomes are down, their tax burden is up, but millionaires, our friends the Haves and Have-Mores, are making more money and paying fewer taxes!"

Sadly, eat it up they did, every time he said it and all his other myriad of tough talk and simplistic slogans. Why?  Because they recognized it; it sounded familiar. It sounded kind of like something Arnold or Clint would say. It hit them in their guts (as opposed to their heads). It demanded no thought or scrutiny. I was waiting at times for Mr. Bush to jiggle his keys at his adoring and pre-screened audiences to send them into a total frenzy of glee (and diversion). How could they stand to be treated this way? It was painful to watch.

Forgetting for a bit that he is president of the entire United States, Bush insulted every resident of Massachusetts by pronouncing the name of that state with a disgust usually reserved for Saddam Hussein (but oddly enough, not bin Laden anymore). He slammed not only his opponent, but Senator Kennedy, without whom his No Child Left Behind program never would have passed. True, Sen. Kennedy turned scarily liberal when he expected the president to provide funding for NCLB, but to be so snide about a senior US senator and his state was, at least, unbecoming in a president.

Of course, he neglected to remind voters that he got the brunt of his education in Massachusetts and all of it in New England. Never mind that Massachusetts has had a Republican governor for the past umpteen years. In fact, the latest is that Gov. Mitt Romney has been nominated to be vice chairman of the Republican Governors Association, and there is talk of him running for President in 2008. Suddenly Massachusetts is looking okay to Republicans.  I've got whiplash.

I never heard President Clinton insult a state for being conservative, or for any reason for that matter. I never heard him target individual senators, despite being targeted for destruction by his patriotic opponents like no president before him.  Bush was clearly appealing to base stereotypes and visceral emotion to get a rise out of his audience.  That is treating your constituents like they are not too bright.

When Sen. Kerry mentioned the global test, Bush went to town, and Rove must have been foaming at the mouth. Now, one of two things happened here. Either Pres. Bush didn't understand what was obvious to the "elite" half of us, didn't understand what Sen. Kerry was saying, and it is not in any way comforting that our president needs to have pretty simple concepts explained to him (but it might explain why he didn't grasp the Aug. 6th PDB) or Pres. Bush knew his audience well and knew that they would eat up his distortion and, frankly, complete fabrication of what Kerry had said.

I think it was the second option. 'Twasn't Sen. Kerry who thought folks were dummies then, it was Rove and Bush. 

How can anyone in this country get away with winning political elections by attacking our war veterans, esp., attackers who avoided battle? The only way is to know your constituency will buy it if you market it correctly. Sorry, folks. That is NOT treating your supporters with respect, not to mention your veterans. (Speaking of which, has anyone informed our Iraq War vets that their commander-in-chief considers their service over there fodder for attack 30 years from now should any of them decide to run for political office against a country club brat who supports the war in Iraq but won't go himself?) . The scorecard for this shameful campaign tactic? Republicans 3, Democrats 0, and all three worked, and that is a disgrace. But it also shows incredible disdain for your constituents since it makes clear you think they are folks who are neanderthal enough to applaud the denigration of people who went to war for their country.

Bush supporters seem to denigrate their own intelligence. They like Bush because he's "one of them." They like that he governs strictly from instinct. They like that he has no need for contemplation, reading, or getting objective information. They like that he is not an intellect. They like that he comes off as simple. That he'd be fun to have a beer with is sufficient. Nothing like lowering the bar to become President.  Do you see something here? THEY admit to their simplicity, to their lack of intellect, and they are determined to bring America down to that level rather than doing the "hard work" of raising themselves up to join the enlightened, the educated, and the informed. Why keep America "elite"? Let's instead try a new, unimproved, regressive America where the uninformed rule. But then let's complain when liberal elites call us dumb.

But let's be honest here for a second. When red staters angrily reject the blue state "elite", what they are rejecting is blue state brains. Calling millions of people elite is the same as saying, "You think you're so great," which is an obvious indication of feelings of inferiority. They do not want complicated thought cluttering up their black-and-white worldview. But why should America be brought down to that level? America should be constantly improving, her population getting smarter, not dumber. We should be way ahead of the Founding Fathers in language, thought, and understanding of American principles. Instead, we are in retrograde. I believe the Founding Fathers, if they could hear us and see us, would cover their eyes and ears and hang their heads in shame and sadness. They gave us the greatest gift of opportunity on earth, and we are systematically destroying that gift by praising the dumbing down of America.

 Don't we want America to be elite? Don't red staters want to be informed, educated? (Vicariously getting your anger and frustration out by listening to Rush Limbaugh spew vitriol is not getting informed, by the way). Why do they want America led by a group of bullies who have rejected the "reality based community" in favor of creating their own reality, a bizarre reality which the rest of us have to figure out how to survive despite the pervasive secrecy in this Administration?

Blue staters had every hope and belief that red staters would see through Rove's machinations and mistreatment of them. We see it so clearly. No one was more heartbroken than we in the blue states to see red staters acquiesce to Rove's belief that those folks are just dumb enough to be manipulated so cruelly. It was like listening to a battered woman saying he does it because he loves her. But no one was laughing harder at the red staters' expense than were Bush, Rove and Cheney. No one. The sound of high fives at Bush/Rove gatherings on election night no doubt reached the cacophony of a trawler of fish hitting the deck.  And sure, a lot were meant for Bush's win, but make no bones about it, a lot were for having successfully exploited the ignorance of so many of their own countrymen.

The formula is pretty simple: if you don't want to be called dumb, don't allow yourself to be treated the way the Bush campaign treated you, like you are, well, dumb. But if you must, do not expect the rest of us to join you. Brains are stronger than bullets, the antidote to fear, the fodder for courage, and the best hope to stop all the bloodshed.

I am writing this as Anonymous for a couple of reasons. It matters not who I am. The message is all that matters. But mostly, I am sorry to say, I am afraid of this administration. It is shocking that anyone should be afraid, in America, to express him or herself, but afraid I am. I am an American citizen, and I am afraid. That alone shows how far we have fallen in four short years.

Anonymous

[unpossibles]

73. wow! n/t

[Blue State Blues]

74. Full Text of the Kerry email

Just arrived. (It's taking me so long to post this, I apologize if this is a dupe by the time I post it.)

****************

I want to thank you personally for what you did in the election -- you rewrote the book on grassroots politics, taking control of campaigns away from big donors. No campaign will ever be the same.

You moved voters, helped hold George Bush accountable, and countered the attacks from big news organizations such as Fox, Sinclair Broadcasting, and conservative talk radio.

And your efforts count now more than ever. Despite the words of cooperation and moderate sounding promises, this administration is planning a right wing assault on values and ideals we hold most deeply. Healthy debate and diverse opinion are being eliminated from the State Department and CIA, and the cabinet is being remade to rubber stamp policies that will undermine Social Security, balloon the deficit, avoid real reforms in health care and education, weaken homeland security, and walk away from critical allies around the world.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause.

And we must fight not only against George Bush's extreme policies -- we must also uphold our own values. This is why on the first day Congress is in session next year, I will introduce a bill to provide every child in America with health insurance. And, with your help, that legislation will be accompanied by the support of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

There are more than eight million uninsured children in our nation.

That's eight million reasons for us to stay together and fight for a new direction. It is a disgrace that in the wealthiest nation on earth, eight million children go without health insurance.

There are more than eight million uninsured children in our nation.

That's eight million reasons for us to stay together and fight for a new direction. It is a disgrace that in the wealthiest nation on earth, eight million children go without health insurance.

Normally, a member of the Senate will first approach other senators and ask them to co-sponsor a bill before it is introduced -- instead, I am turning to you. Imagine the power of a bill co-sponsored by hundreds of thousands of Americans being presented on the floor of the United States Senate. You can make it happen. Sign our "Every Child Protected" pledge today and forward it to your family, friends, and neighbors:

http://johnkerry.com/EveryChild

This is the beginning of a second term effort to hold the Bush administration accountable and to stand up and fight for our principles and our values. They want you to disappear; they are counting on that. I'm confident you will prove them wrong, and you will rewrite history again.

Here is what I want you to know. I understand the strength, commitment, and passion that are at the core of what we built together -- and I am determined to make our collective energy and organization a force to be reckoned with in the weeks and months ahead.

Let's roll up our sleeves and get back to work for our country.

Thank you,

John Kerry

[Broken Acorn]

78. Subtle Hints

That Kerry is going to come out fighting. He says that we're going to make history, so maybe there is a silver lining after all.

He also heavily emphasises that the votes are not all counted yet, showing that there is still a doubt about the election.

I believe Kerry needed some R&R after the concession to regroup and come back stronger if we need to fight the repukes in the courts of law and public opinion.

[njnop]

80. Kerry Memo

Where was this originally posted and who was he writing it to? I am hopeful that this means he is not sitting this out and that he really means that every vote will be counted

[rockedthevoteinMA]

81. I got the same thing in an email f/Kerry campaign n/t

[boi1946]

84. He knew what we did with Sinclair!

We can make a difference!

[ahyums]

87. that's true actually the Sinclair message could possibly be another

suggestion of continuing grass roots level work of which this is clearly the most prominent right now. Plenty of clues in this, no idea of course whether they are real or just our imagination but it does seem extremely convenient to have so many potential references, which begs the question why he can't just come out and say it?

[txindy]

95. I got a kick out of that reference, too

Yep, we got a shout-out for kicking Sinclair to the curb over that trash they planned to air. :toast:

I also like how he lumps FOX in with Sinclair and neocon talk radio. Very accurately, I may add! And Falafel Boy thought it was only a matter of time before he persuaded Sen. Kerry to appear on his (side)show. Ha!

[99Pancakes]

Yahoo!!!

I was writing sponsors of that planned Sinclair torpedo attack on my lunch break. I hated to give up IAMS for my Precious Persian, but I swore I would....I'd never eat at that restaurant...not buy that insurance.....and the letters came back standing on the side of their Almight Buck!!! (God they love money, eh?) And the news was GREAT when they whined about a "small but vocal" minority who railroaded there planned highjacking of the Kerry Campaign. Ha!

[ebayfool]

108. What is the best, it was sent out to supporters ...

not a press release, not to news outlets - speaking directly to his supporters. Kerry, NOT the DNC! No barriers in the way of communicating to his 'troops'. When is the last time you got the word before the talking heads? (And don't think that hasn't ticked off the MSM - they're already pitching a hissy fit @ it. They didn't get their shot at molding, spinning & interpreting the message before we got it - ppfftt~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!)

There, I feel better!

[txindy]

110. You nailed that one right on the head

The national MSM is on its way out, IMO. They are finally coming to realize it and they're lashing out. We don't need them.

They've been making jokes about bloggers and online resources, acting as if those are aberrations. I think they're finally grasping the fact that this is a serious shift in mass communications and they're being left behind to moulder. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of lazy 'news' readers. :evilgrin:

[glitch]

111. Agreed! nt

:dem:

[Solitaire]

91. thank you!

I've forwarded to everyone I can!

:yourock:

[unpossibles]

85. very nice

"This is the beginning of a second term effort to hold the Bush administration accountable and to stand up and fight for our principles and our values. They want you to disappear; they are counting on that. I'm confident you will prove them wrong, and you will rewrite history again.

Here is what I want you to know. I understand the strength, commitment, and passion that are at the core of what we built together -- and I am determined to make our collective energy and organization a force to be reckoned with in the weeks and months ahead."

I noticed he said "rewrite history again" as well as "weeks and months" - which to me sounds like a fight is brewing. Again, I can not only hope so but also feel we all need to continue to fight, to spread info, to communicate and raise people up from the ground again.

We have your back, John.

[ahyums]

88. yes weeks - I mean nothing else is really happening in weeks - or supposed

to anyway Congress is in its lame duck period

[PATRICK]

90. The way I reacted and a website challenge

Was that at least, Kerry knows WHAT a lot of disappointed supporters are doing and saying about this election. On the other hand, you could interpret this perfectly as a subtle redirection before ultimate disappointment and anger sets in to support child health insurance, a natural winner, who can resist. At least he knows he is in real danger of decimating his support and enthusiasm. You could very easily interpret it as a kindly "move on" hint.

Well, this is better than nothing, but they had better prepare a better frame for fighting for "transparency and accountability" than slipping immediately into a sign up call for health care.

We don't need the fantasy. We need ourselves to do the work of making this fight itself less INVISIBLE. So far the sunk boat full of Democratic leadership has done little to help the issue get out to the public or get behind people who can. That boat ain't rockin'. The clock is ticking. That's their problem for future credibility slipping through the hourglass.

OK, I don't need subtle signals one way or the other. I need to find places that keep presenting the data in clear and simple ways that even the most Sesame St. news reporter can refer to. The massive fraud needs to get into every precinct and nook and cranny and not get jammed into a few cases. Meanwhile the only research the media cares to tout is any critical analysis that might be great sound bites and quieting sidebars against the very IDEA of GOP vote fraud.

Be still my heart, back to business.


What was it, that recent JK Galbraith article, that great progressive punditry that was slow on the uptake, taking a few anti ideas and then saying "you too" Democrats? I wonder how he earns his salary? If he joined any blog on his wise findings about "Dixiecrats" he would have been shot down in a hot minute. Maybe we should start rating these a-holes on how they stack up to "private sector" blogging. They and their "sources" and "some Democrats" will get laughed right off the Net.

That would be a great web page invitation for the high and mighty to learn humility- and their &**^%%ing job instead of writing lonely e-mails to Mt. Olympus.

[glitch]

92. That wasn't one of JK Galbraith's better efforts. You're right, the

blogosphere contains much deeper waters, professional writers would help themselves by honing their skills in it's debate atmosphere.
More rigorous (in the scientific 'testing' sense) than the lecture format of the typical article.
Feedback is a good thing, things are happening too fast to have to wait for it in LTTE or to do without it, these days.

[Fortunato]

93. yeah

Don't think he's expect to "win" the election.

Sounds like he is going to push for all the votes for be counted as fairly as possible, and then is going to mobilize the troops against George Bush's policies. I don't think it means that he expects to somehow win the election; he's assuming he lost, and the fight will be in congress and on the streets.

(Hmmm, I wonder which the Repubs would have wanted less: Kerry as president, or Kerry as a driven and disruptive foil against GWB?)

[bunny planet]

96. I agree, it doesn't necessarily telegraph that he thinks he will win this

election, although that is not ruled out. I think it speaks to the fight ahead of us to continue to uncover the fraud, make it public, and to overturn our broken election system as it is now. Uniform, transparent, honest elections, verifiable paper ballots, no repug machines owned by repugs, in time for the next election. That is a huge uphill fight but if we can do it, we will change history. We will get our country back, and expose the lying administration for who they really are. Can you say impeachment, down the road, that could be the history changing event he is talking about too.

I would like to think that Kerry is talking about overturning this election, and I hope that happens. We also can think about overturning enough non-presidential Republican wins too (some of those stink to high heaven) and take back the house and the Senate now, not even waiting until 2006. Damn if we can get back even two Senate seats, Kentucky and Florida come to mind, and we can prove fraudulent Republican wins, then moderate Republicans just might jump ship for Jeffordsville (although I still can't believe they haven't done that already).

[Chili]

89. here's the link to the petition to co-sponsor the health care bill

...and also the link to his speech, which is the exact wording of the email sent out (which I haven't gotten yet, LOL, but it's word for word)

http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/everychild.php

[I Still Dig Kerry]

97. Stay Focused People!

I've been reading these boards for a while, but I just registered now. I find it amusing at how quickly some folk around here jump on and off the Kerry boat. Immediately after the election a slew of posts surfaced about how Kerry is spineless or how terrible he performed. Now we have a nice bit of news and everyone is happy again. This is why the Republicans dominate. We need to take a stand and stick to it. Hell, the other party does.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Generator]

102. I still dig Kerry too

I guess we shall see. Democracy is in our hands. We are a miniority in the places of power, but not in actuality. Watch the whole video, it's quite compelling.

Kerry looks down right mean. (Avenging angel?)

I'd still like Kerry as our fighter even if there is no way to overturn the election results. As I've said before, I understand everyone's anger-you never know if they disliked Kerry to start with or ended up loving him at the end. Those like me came to adore him found the concession beyond hard. And I didn't watch it-I saw snippets and I still find that whole speech disturbing and just plain wrong in the language that was used.

This speech is like a different man. I haven't damned him to hell like some have, even if I can understand why seeming to let Bushco have another four years without a dirty after election fight would make you feel that way.

I have found a renewed hope in the people here at DU that haven't given up, the Bev Harris and Ida Briggs of the world.

[gristy]

106. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

As far a people jumping on and off the Kerry boat, I would guess that many (most?) are not the same people. Yes, some people were dissing him after the election, but perhaps mostly different people are praising him now. I wouldn't even be too critical of folks who did both (dissed and praised). We were all VERY upset when Kerry "lost" the election.

[angrydemocrat]

121. You Are So Right- (I Still Dig Kerry)

Welcome to DU! I was like you when it came to realizing how many people around here can change their minds like turning a light switch off and on. It truly is unreal that in a time we need to be standing behind and fighting the most for Kerry so many are so ready to pass judgment, start the name calling, and making truly nasty remarks about the man. It is sickening and uncalled for. But unfortunatly as you have seen we have so many that act like immature little kids around here. These people are ready to blame anyone but especially Kerry and eat their own. I guess they feel if they throw a big enough fit, scream and whine loud enough they will get their way and everything will change to suit them. I have never in my life seen so many people turn their backs and be so nasty to a man just because he didn't do everything the way they wanted him to, when they wanted him to, and how they wanted it done. These people remind me of the old saying with friends like this who needs enemies but it this situation the correct way to state that would be with voters like these who needs repugs. Kerry has never been a quitter in his life and he sure as hell isn't going to start now. Kerry has always believed that all Americans should be able to live the American dream not just the wealthy and privaleged. He has always fought for the poor, middle class, and working people of this country. He is a very smart, intelligent, and imformed on foriegn affairs. I truly beleive this man would be one of the greatest presidents this country has seen since John F. Kennedy. I personally look at things this way. This election is not over yet. When the clock runs out and they havn't proved by then that he won this election then I say that is when the election of 2004 is over but not until then. I like so many others here and I feel Kerry believes it to that Kerry was the real winner of this election. Are we going to be able to prove it in time? I don't know I can only hope and stand strong and help with the fight that we are facing to prove he did. There is no doubt in anyone's mind including Kerry that there was fraud and voter intimidation here. That is why all the investigations are still on going and evidence being collected. But as many of us here realize when a investigation is on going you never let everyone know your every move, how you are doing something, and how you are going about doing it. That would be totally irresponible and foolish. Also you never let anyone know who you have working for you, how many you have working for you, or where they are at doing the work for you. Again this would be totally irresponsible and foolish. This is not how the process works. If everyone knew what, when, and where something was going on their wouldn't be no invetigation to it. Kerry has done everything possible to let his supporters know that he has not given up this fight, that it is very much on going, and that we must all stand together and fight for what is right. We also should not give up, roll over, and just quit. Kerry knows what he is doing and how to go about doing it to come out with the best results. This man knows all about how to ivestigate and bring down people for fraud. He did with BCCI. People need to remember this is a smart man we have on our team and that we were not the one's backing a dumba$$ chimp he belongs to the repugs. I will also say this regarless if this election is overturned or not this man is on our side and will always be on our side fighting for us. He will not give up on us and we shouldn't give up on him. And regardless of the outcome of this current election you can bet that we havn't seen or heard the last of Kerry and this will be especially true when it comes to Bush and the repugs because before all is said and done they will be wishing they never heard the name Kerry! Kerry is a member of our team and always will be and he deserves great respect for all he has done and will continue to do. He will continue to reach out to his supporters for help in all he sets out to do and to hold Bush and the repugs responsible for all it's failures and to put a stop to their plans to take away our rights, change the constitution, and continue on the downward path to destroy our country. My friends now is not a time to be fighting among one another, eating our own, and trying to destroy a great man that we will continue to be on our side in this long hard fought battle to get our country back. This man had no control over what happen no more than we did and to turn our backs on him now is morally wrong of us to do. Yes the voting process is broken and needs to be fixed and Kerry will fight to get it fixed but at the same time don't you think it make's alot more since to stand behind the man and help him in this fight rather than resorting to childesh behavior such as name calling and making nasty remarks about one of our own team members. I will also say this I have the upmost respect for all of our team members that includes Dean, Gore, Clark, ect. We should not be disking any of these great men for any reason and should respect them for what they have done and will continue to. But please remember this election is not over yet and we are all fighting for the same thing. Stop the blam game, stop the name calling, and by all means quit acting like a bunch of childesh repugs trying to destroy one of our own. John Kerry is one of us and will continue to be. We should all be standing tall, fighting for what we believe in, and the future of this country. We should continue to help Kerry and continue to be a team and prove to Bush and the repugs that they havn't won won a damn thing! John Kerry is one of our most valuable team members and I supported this great man from day one and will continue to do so. I will not turn my back on such a great man that works hard and fights for me. I will continue to fight for this man no matter what the cause and no matter what others have to say.

[rzemanfl]

105. Kerry

Just got an e-mail from Kerry. Asked to sign backing a Health Insurance Program for kids. The page where you sign up says "Kerry-Edwards." He mentioned counting votes in the e-mail, is this a hint that he is still in the game waiting for enough proof to go after Dubyah or am I dreaming?

[New Earth]

109. you're not alone

there's plenty of people here who agree with you :)

look up a little bit in this thread and you'll see about 4 links dedicated to this

[pauldp]

112. Dr. Freeman Update

Dr. Freeman has a new draft of "The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy"

It responds very strongly to his debunkers.

He has asked that people link directly to his site,
http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf
where he will be posting updates rather than to the first rough draft, which is what many people are still linking to.


:-)

[NicRic]

113. Please, let something show the truth !

Even if Kerry does not get to actually take office ,which in itself is very depressing ,it would be nice if at least the people, knew that once again we have a President that was not the peoples choice, and a added bonus would be to show bush for the phony he is ! Iam trying not to hate the bush supporters ,rather Iam trying to look at it from the ,forgive them for they know not what they do ,point of veiw ! I still cant figure out how so many can be fooled so easily , why hold back ,they are fucking stupid !

[bleever]

117. "...a force to be reckoned with in the weeks...ahead." I have to say

that that part struck me too. I felt like I was watching a surreptitiously recorded and transmitted message from behind enemy lines.

And in a way, I guess I was.

[boi1946]

119. I had a few days of indecision...

until the most outrageous of the "irregularities" in this election began to surface. It was kinda like when I saw the Police and National Guard in New York during the RNC with AUTOMATIC WEAPONS on the streets of New York City gearing up for the protestors--a little undecided, a little scared for the people in the streets, and then I just got MAD!

And I knew we had to figure out a way to fight them. Also from what I knew of JK, I did not think that he would take this lying down.

B* and RoveCo had about 6 years and 2 dress-rehearsals to pull this particular election scam off. And if fraud is proven, as I know we all know it should be, there are still a lot of people out there who have been fed a horrendous pack of lies that need to be shown how they've been manipulated and used.

Another telling part of JK's letter is that he talks about our principles and values. I hate to borow from the French (gasp) but liberte', egalitie', fraternite' (let's add sororite' for good measure) aren't bad words to live by. Respect for our freedoms, equal rights, and that we need to respect and help take care of one another...

[bleever]

120. Nice post! Welcome to DU. You've found the right place.

:hi:

[glitch]

118. kick! nt