i am demanding proof of democracy

[nashville_brook]

http://nyc.indymedia.org/usermedia/video/11/ComeToThis.mov



for me -- it isn't about the vote fraud any longer.
i want proof of democracy

we are getting bogged down in discussion of if we have the 'right' or the 'power' or the 'means' to overturn the election? like, if all this talk of *vote fraud* doesn't amount to Kerry being president, we will have failed. maybe that will happen, maybe it won't.

we have to get to the bottom of this. we don't have a choice. we have an ego-manical oedipal man-child with pscho-religious tendancies in the White House. OBL (a man of his words) is determined to use nuclear weapons in the US and he has the blessing of the clerics. we started a holy war in the middle east. the neo-cons are getting ready to spontaneously combust at the prospect of controlling the worlds' oil. the rest of the planet isn't too happy about this. the dollar is falling like a rock. we are in debt over our heads. a couple of months longer and if there isn't nuclear winter to deal with we are going to have hyper-inflation. banana republicans, indeed! they have the house, the senate, the presidency and the supreme court. we just had an election that doesn't even meet the standards of Venezuela or the Ukraine. when exactly would it be a good time to stamp our feet and call the band back for one more song? we have to count every vote. we have to know what happened in Warren County, Volusia County, and with the Diebold, ES&S and various other republican-owned voting businesses -- if we don't answer the questions surrounding the election, what's left?

these are outsider politics, friends. it isn't 1992 anymore.

"The great American dream that reached out to the stars has been lost to the stripes. We have forgotten where we came from, we don't know where we are, and we fear where we may be going. Afraid, we turn from the glorious adventure of the pursuit of happiness to a pursuit of an illusionary security in an ordered, stratified, striped society. Our way of life is symbolized to the world by the stripes of military force. At home we have made a mockery of being our brother's keeper by being his jail keeper. When Americans can no longer see the stars, the times are tragic. We must believe that it is the darkness before the dawn of a beautiful new world; we will see it when we believe it."
-- Saul Alinsky, 1971 -- Rules for Radicals

outsider politics -- is there an alternative?

what's so offensive about outsider politics, anyway? why can't anyone talk about this? progressives invented outsider politics. you know, gandhi (that damn 4-hour movie). martin luther king. 70s catholic fabric art. pot lucks. anyone? gingrich gave outsider politics a bad name -- by using them against us! doesn't that piss you off?

if all you can manage to do is talk about this at Thanksgiving -- you will be doing your part. the next time you have an opportunity to voice your opinion at work -- do it. write a letter to the editor. attend a meeting if you can. it's about reaching out and making friends. let yourself be heard, realize it is therapeutic. you are doing it for yourself. for now.

[ElementaryPenguin]

1. Excellent post!

:toast:

[nashville_brook]

2. thanky

i'm going out to buy some felt

[neohippie]

3. I completely disagree

If Kerry won the election then he deserves to be innaugarated, but, our goal is not to overturn the election it is to ensure that we have a true democracy, where every vote counts.

If we can change the system we currently use, to something that is less error ridden, and completely verifiable then we have not failed.

Our goal should be election reform, and nothing more. If we deserve to win, which I believe is the case then we should win fair and square.

[nashville_brook]

4. i totally agree

on every level. i'm all about that there is totally nothing to lose and everything to win by engaging this voting issue (or democracy issue by extension; or flip that; vice versa). we progressives invented the style of politics we need to invoke. :)

[PATRICK]

5. Maybe all parties and candidates

who ever have had odd results over the past years ANY ES&S machinery have been used should start coming forward. Better, let's see if any research can call past elections be reference into question- and the entire legitimacy and representation of our government.

Are we or are we not in a state of total takeover and since when? Let's push the clock back on the focus as we uncover now proven methodologies.
Let's rate the probable legitimacy of our system with special side issues added such as big money, media treatment, gerrymandering.

They want to be quiet and treat this as legislation to tinker with until people are shut up, let's expand the volume. If they don't care to listen we up the ante as far as circumstantial evidence will bear.

How they vote has been well documented vis a vis corporate sponsors. How about with special regard to questionable elections?

If democracy goes, it should drag them and their legitimacy down with them and facts, facts facts can paint a more and more damning picture.

There is something to broaden your corporate wasteland horizons Ralph Nader.

[nashville_brook]

6. you know it's gotten bad

when democrats have to adopt outsider rules to be heard