I'd like to know feelings in regard to Kerry's recent note.

[JD Lau]

Do you want to sign the petition for children's health insurance? Do you not? Do you want to continue to support Kerry? What are your thoughts about election transparency and voting boxes?

I am feeling, myself, that the voting issue needs to be addressed in some concentrated form before we continue on. I am feeling that Kerry wants to keep the momentum going and wants to get some things done that we all want, but I am also feeling that if we don't address the voting issue, we haven't gone anywhere.

I am still throwing this back and forth in my mind, though, and would like some dialogue. Thanks for any comments regarding Kerry's comments and how you feel about this.

JD

Here is the Kerry note in it's entirety:

Dear .....,

I want to thank you personally for what you did in the election -- you rewrote the book on grassroots politics, taking control of campaigns away from big donors. No campaign will ever be the same.

You moved voters, helped hold George Bush accountable, and countered the attacks from big news organizations such as Fox, Sinclair Broadcasting, and conservative talk radio.

And your efforts count now more than ever. Despite the words of cooperation and moderate sounding promises, this administration is planning a right wing assault on values and ideals we hold most deeply. Healthy debate and diverse opinion are being eliminated from the State Department and CIA, and the cabinet is being remade to rubber stamp policies that will undermine Social Security, balloon the deficit, avoid real reforms in health care and education, weaken homeland security, and walk away from critical allies around the world.

Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause.

And we must fight not only against George Bush's extreme policies -- we must also uphold our own values. This is why on the first day Congress is in session next year, I will introduce a bill to provide every child in America with health insurance. And, with your help, that legislation will be accompanied by the support of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

There are more than eight million uninsured children in our nation.

That's eight million reasons for us to stay together and fight for a new direction. It is a disgrace that in the wealthiest nation on earth, eight million children go without health insurance.

Normally, a member of the Senate will first approach other senators and ask them to co-sponsor a bill before it is introduced -- instead, I am turning to you. Imagine the power of a bill co-sponsored by hundreds of thousands of Americans being presented on the floor of the United States Senate. You can make it happen. Sign our "Every Child Protected" pledge today and forward it to your family, friends, and neighbors:

http://johnkerry.com/EveryChild

This is the beginning of a second term effort to hold the Bush administration accountable and to stand up and fight for our principles and our values. They want you to disappear; they are counting on that. I'm confident you will prove them wrong, and you will rewrite history again.

Here is what I want you to know. I understand the strength, commitment, and passion that are at the core of what we built together -- and I am determined to make our collective energy and organization a force to be reckoned with in the weeks and months ahead.

Let's roll up our sleeves and get back to work for our country.

Thank you,

John Kerry

[Ninga]

1. I don't know what Kerry said, and at some level, I don't care.

I am focused like a laser beam on voting reform.

Anything else at this point matters not.

Without voting reform, we are without a voice.

[BlueDog2u]

2. Roger that, Ninga

It's the single issue of the day.

[merh]

65. He did address that in his email, reread the original post in its

entirety. Just a suggestion! :silly:

[LiberalEsto]

9. It's fraWd

and I agree with you wholeheartedly, Ninga.

If the voting system is broken, nothing else is going to matter.

Fighting for a scrap of health policy here, an amendment there, a blocked judicial nomination now and then -- these are just tiny bandages on the severely injured body of democracy.

I want Kerry to take the lead in challenging this rigged election. If he doesn't do that, he's lost my support for any future campaigns.

[merh]

68. Reread the original post, in its entirety.

See Kerry's note/letter/email - lines 4, 5 and 6. HE ADDRESSES the election fraud issue! :crazy:

[merh]

64. Do you read the entire post before you comment?

:shrug: I am just curious, because the post contains his email/letter which clearly states:

"Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.

I will fight for a national standard for federal elections that has both transparency and accountability in our voting system. It's unacceptable in the United States that people still don't have full confidence in the integrity of the voting process.

I ask you to join me in this cause."

Now, that appears to reflect that he is intent on pursuing the election fraud problems. :shrug:

Reading is fundamenal. :argh:

[Slit Skirt]

3. I say blow them all off....

until they address the election and voting fraud...they don't deserve our support

[malatesta1137]

20. change OFF to OUT

[bunny planet]

43. unless we get back Congress, they will prevent any bills on voter reform

from coming to the floor. Just like they've done for the last four years. I'm afraid it's going to have to get ugly. This is why, we have to fight now, before the scene of the crime goes cold. Even if we can't get Kerry in at the top, I'm sure there is some way to get recounts and prove fraud in some Senate and Congressional races etc. Start with Castor/ Martinez in Fl., and Bunning /Mongiardo in Kentucky. Anywhere close. Just unclear on this, can an election be overturned after certification if fraud is proven down the road?

[JD Lau]

49. b.p. Have you gotten an answer to certification if fraud?

[merh]

77. I agree with you about the control of congress issue. However,

if you read Kerry's letter, you can see that he is trying to get around the repuke congressional control problem by asking us, the voters to join him in sponsoring the health care legislation. If we sign the petition and co-sponsor the bill, if he is armed with hundred of thousand of signatures of voters that support and sponsor this legislation, it puts the repukes in a very bad position. The people will have spoken and if they ignore us, then they are in a bad position. The grass roots effort is a win/win proposition. imho

[bunny planet]

96. I've signed it. Now let's hope he does get hundreds of thousands

of signatures. Pass it on to every person you know and ask them to sign it. This petitions need to circulate often, and be re-sent otherwise many of them get up to say 50K signatures and languish. I suggest Kerry has it resent every couple of days if possible so it does get around to a majority of people. I'll write KE with that suggestion.

[99Pancakes]

82. A good point

I was worried to see more Re-pooplican'ts follow on the heals of King Dumb-Dumb II. If, in 2006, there is more "Freedom Fraud" next to the menu with "freedom fries", the Evil Empire may take over, and that WAY concerns me.

Yes, fix the voting system. It ALL has to be auditable (is that a word?)

[merh]

71. Okay, go back to the original post, then READ down to

Kerry's letter at lines 4, 5 and 6. He does address the election fraud issues. :dunce: I just don't know how ultimatives such as yours can be made when the issue IS addressed in the letter. :smoke:

[Slit Skirt]

78. bullshit

this should have been done long ago.....and I am tired of words and no action...where are they THIS ELECTION

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.....

[merh]

84. You apparently watch far too much television and have seen way

too many lawyer shows. Investigations, litigation and the counting of the votes do not happen overnight. To expect things to be done in an instant, like driving thru a drive thru is simply not realistic. "This should have been done long ago"? When this is the 20th of November, how long ago would you have preferred? If the statement had been released on the 14th, would that have been soon enough for you? The 4th?

Kerry was a prosecutor, they are accustomed to conducting secret investigations into alleged crime, that way they do not tip off the criminals and they are in a much better posture to catch them in the act or catch them before they can destroy the evidence.

Justice is not something that happens in one hour as is portrayed on television.

Too little too late - How the heck do you know that? Is that your emotional response or have you allowed reason to come into play in any way? :shrug:

[Slit Skirt]

89. ok...let's be realistic here....

too much tv? too many lawyer shows?...

c'mon get a grip.....really....what I meant by too little too late is that this election fraud has been known since 2000....people were screaming about it long before the 4th, 14th or 20th...LONG AGO....long long ago.

[merh]

94. And what did you do about it since 2000

and how many elected offices have you run for in an effort to make a difference? Just curious! :shrug:

[Slit Skirt]

98. I do not know why you insist on attacking me

from thread to thread....are you the like the DU stalker or something?

you are implying that I have had to run for office in order to have an opinion....
you also implied this on your other thread

the problem is WE HAVE NO REPRESENTATION IN WASHINGTON ANYMORE....IF WE DID THEY WOULD BE LISTENING TO US...IF WE HAD A FREE AND INDEPENDENT MEDIA WE WOULDN'T BE SO ECSTATIC WHEN KEITH O. (thank god we have him) DOES A SHOW ON FRAUD....they throw us a bone and we jump through hoops....

let's be perfectly clear here.....these people have the power to change things...they are suppose to be our representatives...do I expect them to respond to the hundreds of emails and letters and phone calls I have made....

damn straight...we pay their salary...THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY IN WASHINGTON TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.....

and as for me.....I don't have to justify anything to you....but just so you know....I worked locally to try to change things...and have been trying to bring attention to Bev Harris and her cause on anybody's tv show since last year....

dems have been rolling over on this issue....THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE OUR LEADERS....they are suppose to lead...that is what leaders do.

[merh]

100. I am not attacking you, I am asking you to stop and think

rationally and to accept the same responsibilty you demand of our leaders. I am not stalking you, it just happens that you continue to respond to posts without fully reading their content and you post negative, emotionally charged responses without seeing both sides of the issue and without recognizing that you are playing right into rove & poppies hands.

They want us to doubt our party and our leaders and to believe that they do not care about us. They want us to waste our time blaming our leaders and ignore them and their crimes. They think if they continue to scream there has been no crime, they will be able to hide the body while we waste our time condemning our own.

I will be more vigilante and will try never to respond to your posts again. You can continue with your anger and your buying into their theories and their games.

Until you have run for office or personally put yourself in a postion of the personal attacks and distructions that come with being a candidate that runs against or rules against the repukes, I don't think you should judge as harshly as you do. That is my opinion. If I should make the mistake of responding to you in the future, just ignore my mistake. Also, don't reply to my posts unless you want me to respond to yours. Kinda simple, ain't it!

Peace

[Slit Skirt]

101. ok and what responsibility would that be.....

I have read the posts...just because I do not come away with the same conclusion as you does not mean I am shirking my responsibility...yes my responses are negative...but emotionally charged ....no...
I think this is kinda funny actually...because I believe the whole frickin election was one big game anyway....
I tried to make peace with you on the other thread and would like to keep it that way....
ok? solid.

[merh]

102. Ignore

:boring:

[Nightwing]

4. I signed it

And I also included a message demanding that in return Kerry/Edwards and the DNC fight these crooked bastards tooth and nail and prove massive nationwide voter fraud. Anything less is unacceptable!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

5. That is a reasonable request.

Interactive Politics 101.

[laheina]

7. Ditto.

Signed it.

[RC]

6. Small point

It is not voter fraud. It is Election Fraud. The people running the show are the ones doing the fixing of the election, not the voter.

[bunny planet]

72. excuse me I meant election reform, or voting process reform

[ooglymoogly]

21. how did you do that

i couldn't find a field to write a message or i would have done the same. do you think they removed the message option because they were getting to many 'ITS THE FRAUD STUPID'

[burned]

8. he wrote, weeks and months ahead

not years, combined with a complete accounting of the vote, combined with health insurance for all children, one of our own moral issues.
This letter contains everything I need to believe in Kerry.

I've been waiting for a little Dred Scott moment from Kerry and I think this was it.

Of course I could be wrong. :) I'm still full of hope.

[Dr Strangelove]

10. Like Its Going To Help

They are not going to let a Kerry sponsored bill pass just to show him who is boss.

[JD Lau]

12. The thing is...I think he has a point about having millions

of citizens in support of a bill rather than just a co-sign by another senator. I just don't know about timing...about having that be the first thing he does. And the first thing we get on board with.

I also don't want the group momentum to get bogged down with the voting issue. I feel like some very motivated individuals could work on that and allow us to continue on. But I feel like we MUST get organized and not just be all these voices and all this unchanelled energy.

If you want voter/voting reform...what are you doing about it? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I am really wanting to know. What are you doing to make voting reform a reality????

[txindy]

73. Then let them try to crush it

If they vote against a bill giving needed medical insurance to 8 million American children, I'd love to see the fallout. Especially a bill that has tens of thousands of voters as co-sponsors.

I hope they do fight it. I look forward to it. :evilgrin:

[crispini]

85. Bwahahaha! A Dred Scott moment!

I had to think about it for a few seconds, but I got it. Good one!

And yes, I agree with you. I'm hoping it's the same thing. A Dred Scott moment.

[mulethree]

11. conflicted

Glad he brought up the vote issue. Anyone seen that clip on TV? or is it still just on his web site?

Pretty conflicted about the child health insurance.

Better preventative care would be good for children and you could address diet and exercise at the same time. Some kids may have more fun if they're folks aren't - quite - as concerned about a broken wrist or sprained ankle.

Some parents might save if they switch from family health plans to individual. I know my family plan cost more than two individual plans, but that may be like an obstetrician surcharge for adding my wife to coverage (fertile female).

But there will still be lots of kids whose parents aren't covered? Lots of single people without coverage. 50-ish people who get downsized to work at the 7-11 or Home Depot and have a huge insurance bill.

Plus of course, theres no details. I can see low income kids staying on fed/state medicaid, and a next tier who still can't afford coverage and then a tax deduction that pays for the next tier, and then rich kids keeping current insurance at some better level but being subsidized by that tax deduction.

I can also see some sort of mediKid program that's single payer like medicare, and all costs going up because they pay 1/3 or 1/2 the usual rates like medicare does. So half the program cost comes from your tax bill and the other half is tacked onto the healthcare bills of everyone between 19 and 64.

If you've got MediKid covering the youngest 25%, and medicare covering the oldest 15% and medicaid covering the poorest 6% (10% of the remaining 60%) thats 46% under government health programs. So what if you require providers that receive federal funds to charge the same prices to their cash and private-insurance customers? You'd have government-controlled health care costs. Hmmm But I've seen medicare and medicaid both get ripped off so casually that I have to suppose its a common practice. Hmmmm

[JD Lau]

13. mulethree: So what issues are you most interested in?

[mulethree]

92. transparency and accountability

The federal agencies are all created and operated via legislation, but always with a ton of 'presidential discretion' built in. Take a lot of it out. They need to enforce and enact the laws of congress and have less rule-making room for executive policy to play with. They also need to open up the decision making processes and the research, science and data they're using our money for.

The list was a lot longer a month ago. But the realities .... stink.


Ok I admit, Kerry's mediKid plan is slick. Get Health insurance for an additional 15% of americans. Repubs agree or else they're saying no to better health for your children - ouch . Get people a real taste of a single-payer type system. And I love the grass-roots democracy approach - can't reach across the congressional divide? reach across to the constituents themselves. Give them a taste of what they voted against. But I still see no sign of it besides his web site. And I'm uncomfortable with the vagueness of it.

A grass roots fertilizer project to keep them roots going through the winter?

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. I think you hit it on the nail.

I don't mind that Kerry wants to continue the momentum, but I'm not ready to be distracted from the real fight. Which is protecting the integrity of the U.S. voting system. And if fraud is discovered, I think it's up to us to do the sleuth work to uncover who was involved because I don't think the FBI is up to the task.

[JD Lau]

50. So, how many people do you think need to be involved

in the sleuth work? All of us? If not all, then what should the folks not involved in the sleuth work be doing? Just questions I have. I want VERY MUCH for us not to split up into a bunch of splinter groups now. May be that's what is going to happen anyway...

[The Backlash Cometh]

63. We just need to hold our breath and go rub elbows with those

people we generally prefer to avoid. Sooner or later, someone talks.

[gristy]

15. there's been a few threads on this already - try these

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2726527
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1373391
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=4480
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=64458

[Lancer]

16. I signed it, but I found this comment

to be a little odd:

Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration.

On the one hand, it sounds as though JK believes that a recount might *still* put him in the WH in January. On the other hand, he and we know that ain't gonna happen.

There's an air of resignation in this letter, and more obviously in the video. For the time being, JK looks and sounds like a broken man. Can't say I blame him.

This is just my opinion.

[BREMPRO]

36. i signed it, and found his words measured to the circumstances..

he finds himself in- leaving the sreen door open to challenge the election if evidence mounts beyond reasonable doubt... but given that he still has to work with the senate if the smoking gun is not discovered or the votes switch to his favor..i believe he's being cautious and at the same time remaining focussed and committed to fighiting for the issues that matter to him- and us. He CAN"T be the front man for the election irregularities- he would be skewered- better that we, BBV, greens, nader fight the battle. i think it was a good letter.

[JD Lau]

51. I can't view the video, so can't pick up on any nuances there.

Thanks for your points. Maybe he is just tired like the rest of us!

[mulethree]

93. why can't you see it?

there are ways around most such problems

[Dem2theMax]

99. I'm just guessing here but I'd say 'dial-up.'

I don't even bother trying to view anything. It's a waste of time and it never works. Sigh...to be able to afford more than dial-up. It's a dream. I hope someday it's reality. :crazy:

[Paradise]

17. You have done good, JD Lau!

Kerry has reached out to us, offering us this partnership, this power, and, I'm confident,
continued opportunities to effect our strength.

This can be, can become a powerful force!

If you will just think about it, this may be *OUR way to speak out and be heard, LOUD AND CLEAR!

The life of this thread may, very well, be a bellwether of our commitment to our future!

*The, up to now, silenced majority!

[SmokingJacket]

18. If he thought the election was legitimate, he wouldn't have given

the election fraud issue a whole paragraph.

A very good sign.

I don't know if it's enough though. I can't stand the idea of presenting a petition to that corrupt administration -- as if it was a REAL government that gives a shit about what we want.

I feel like a major force has to come out and start making the fraud issue prominent. He could do it... I hope he will.

[JD Lau]

52. I do not see Kerry making the fraud issue prominent. He is

too concerned with preserving the country as a whole. The fraud issue DEFINITELY is not going to do that!!! I think the only way for the fraud issue to be brought to the fore is if the common folk do that. What I am seeing is that "transparency" and "voter machine accountability" are more substantive issues than fraud.

Nonetheless...the voting issue - to me - is the one in the foreground.

[Demit]

19. I thought it was ingenious of Kerry to reach out to the grassroots.

Keith Olbermann sounded a little annoyed in his blog that Kerry bypassed MSM with the video. Except we all know what they would have done with it. Used it as an excuse to dredge up all the Republican memes they repeated so happily during the campaign.

We know the MSM has worked very hard to marginalize and diminish Kerry. I will never forgive the NYT for dismissing nearly 56 million people as a "minority", and for lecturing us to put our support behind *. Bleeeh!

It was brilliant of Kerry to appeal directly to his base, and marshal our support, with this video, and I hope he continues the practice. More videos, Mr. Kerry, please!

Joe Trippi in his book "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" pointed out the enormous democratic force that is the Internet. The "collective intelligence" that it represents. We are a community, and MSM is scared shitless of us. They know that it is they who are on their way out.

If Kerry continues to build strength with having us behind him, the powers-that-be--which includes "elected" officials AND corporate media--won't be able to ignore us. Or they do so at their own peril.

[KoKo]

22. Perhaps Kerry has learned that doing it by the "Party Operative's" Book

doesn't work. Maybe he realizes now what many of us tried to tell him: that the media is totally owned by Corporations and Bushies, and will never report fairly or give equal time to Democrats; that the Campaign Hacks are "fat cat" losers and don't know how to win; that the grassroots got out the vote for him, and not the Party Insiders; that the vote was hacked but it's very hard to prove it unless you can get inside the machines to find evidence; and that he should have spent more time in the South in states that might have gone for him, if he hadn't let the Party and Media focus him on Florida and Ohio.

I think signing this petition is good no matter how you look at it. He's still a senator...if he's learned that the only way to get things done is to get the grassroots to work for it...then that's a very good lesson for him and others.

He wasn't my candidate, but I supported him thinking he has so little baggage that he should win big where I knew Dean and Kucinich would be trashed, although both of them spoke more to me as candidates. I thought Kerry would be able to withstand the RW attacks. But, his handlers didn't have a clue. If he realizes that, then that's why he looks "down" or whatever in the video.

I think every person here should sign that petition. If we want Grassroots then that's it. We have to bypass our anger, disappointment or whatever we feel about Kerry and do it. :shrug:

[stlsaxman]

86. Just what I thought when I first saw the video- to HELL with the DNC and

the DLC... they ain't doin' jack shit- they're as much a failure as the current administration.

I'm a KERRY Democrat.

[JD Lau]

53. YES!!! I think this may very well be the answer. And the only

way we are going to get what we want. So then, do you feel like signing the Kerry kid insurance petition is the way to continue...and hope that Kerry continues to appeal to this base?

[DividedWeAre]

23. two thoughts on this.. no, three..

one. he still wants us to follow him, to remain the leader of the party. unless he leads on the voter fraud issue, i am not inclined to follow him or the party (yes, i will still take him over bush.
two. the democrats "lost" so we are nearly powerless, so what is the point of him even trying to take a leadership role on a mainstream issue. the republicans have all the control and they are not going to pay attention to him or us. the radical right revolution has begun and they are going to treat him and us as their enemies.
three. the democrats need to come up with some radical strategy because the one they have pursued for the last 5 years (polite criticism)has been useless. and, unless they do, i am going elsewhere. this is too important to be polite about it.

in summary, "nah, see ya later". go represent your state and leave the rest to us.

[Paradise]

25. Nah, respectfully disagree with ya!

Actually, imo, as for Progressives: United We Are! :hi:

[JD Lau]

55. It seems like we surely have been to a great degree. I mean

we are all here!!! We are all interested in what to do now.

[utoo]

26. He said the magic word for me....FIGHT

I despise what the neo-cons love. I'll take the back of ANYONE who says they'll fight the evil repugs.
I found it interesting that the letter & video was on the Kerry/Edwards website...subtle message?

I wonder what I would do when my party leadership are a pile of RATS looking for a safe hidey hole. Far as I'm concerned the DNC & DLC are doing NOTHING but protecting their interests. Of course, ultimately, just as "failure to defend" democratic principals over the past 20 years have led to their current situation, they're trying to become neo-con lite.

If Kerry is first in line to pick the fight with the neo-cons...YOU BET I'LL BACK HIM UP...
and if he fails to deliver any punches...I'll find someone new..

the DNC also sent me a letter saying the "got the message"...I wrote them back with a title...I DON'T BELIEVE YOU...that pesky little when problem when actions DON'T match your words...

I'm disgusted with the election of Reid. Neo Con lite. His selection is abdication NOT resistence.

[DividedWeAre]

27. the democrats tried to move bush to the right and to establish

the democrats tried to move bush to the right and to establish themselves as the center. it almost worked but even so, the repubs kept it close enough to win or steal. that strategy, therefore, failed. so, why pick someone like Reid? he is more of the same strategy that failed. the demo leadership is clueless. and, i am not forgetting that the republican leadership is evil when i say that.

[JD Lau]

57. I sure can't say that I disagree with you. I feel like Kerry, though,

will have such a hard fight...if he indeed does try to run with the baton. How will you back him up if he does pick a fight with the neo-cons. I mean what is there for us to do...I certainly don't live in Massachusetts, so I can't help keep him in office...and I voted to keep my Dem Senator and Dem Rep in Congress, so I guess I can write my brains out to them and hope they vote along with Kerry.

Of course, we still haven't seen the end of the voting recount.

I am afraid I do not have a whole lot of hope that we are going to see some miraculous change here. When you see what is happening with Tom DeLay...you can't help but think the Repubs would do whatever it took to keep their ship afloat.

[JD Lau]

54. OK. So then you are going to drop out. You are going "elsewhere"...

Where are you going to go? You say "leave the rest to us"...so what are you doing???? You have the talking part done; I'm interested in the action part...

[Paradise]

24. kick! n/t

[Truthbeknown]

28. Washington Post article leaves something out

Kerry Urges Democrats To Fight Values 'Assault'
E-Mail to Supporters Renews Battle Against Bush

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63697-20...
No surprise they did not talk about kerry talking about every vote being counted and the country needing a national standard for federal elections.

[lwesty]

29. it's a smokescreen

I read this yesterday on DU and now I can't find it. So here it is again. I think it's important. Between this and Kerry's e-mail I think they are trying to determine how much support they still have since so many dems jumped ship and started Kerry bashing after his concession.: "► Contacting Kerry. If you would like to urge Kerry to withdraw his concession or share information about election fraud, Cameron Kerry, John’s brother is collecting comments. His email is: [e-mail]" This is the link http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=197520

[JD Lau]

59. Has this been upgraded since the earlier Cam address. I don't think

it has. Since this earlier post by Cam Kerry, he has said please do not contact him regarding Kerry's position. I'd have to see who he refers people to. I had a letter a while back from him, though.

But...I think you have it right with your thought that they are trying to find out how much support they still have. This is what I am trying to see here, as well. Are people still focused on Kerry? Are people dropping out as well. It seems like some have already folded their tents and are going elsewhere(although where...so far...I haven't read).

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. This is about what's best for kids

so yes, I have signed it.

[JD Lau]

60. I think yours is the best point so far. The best reason

to push for this. THANKS!

[verdalaven]

31. Sign it

This isn't about supporting Kerry, though I still do even now because I am growing to trust his motives for conceding the election so quickly.

This is more about opposing the gross forces of evil taking over the White House.

Sounds dramatic, doesn't it? That's my take on it this point. It is the light battling the darkness. No matter where Kerry ends up in this battle, whether he takes the White House back for us or he has to fight from the Senate, we must support his efforts. Any and all politicians who oppose George Bush's agenda must be supported by us.

[Chimpanzee]

32. I'm very afraid that if they don't fix the election process

there will be a new wave of voter apathy the likes we've never seen. People thinking, what's the point, or being divided among other third parties so the pukes won't even need to cheat to keep their dictatorship in place. I am really starting to lose hope.

[mary195149]

34. Kerry was never going to stop fighting,

He said he was going to count all votes from day one. The Kerry camp has never swayed from this. They are looking into what happened in this election. Only, they are trying to do this, in a way the republicans don't start attacking them. That would be playing into the repubs hands. Th repubs would love to take the attention off this fraud and start attacking Kerry for being a sore loser. Don't give up hope. Kerry cannot come out until he has some proof of something. Kerry is there fighting for us, there have been clues dropped, and we need to pull together and trust!!

[JD Lau]

61. Yes!!! That makes sense to me. THANKS!

[Straight Shooter]

33. I signed it. Why take out anger at Kerry on the children?

Here is the position of Kos on Kerry's latest move:

"This is a perfect piece of wedge legislation: everybody supports it, you look like a total slime if you vote against it, and the Republicans won't want to spend the money or give Kerry the credit. If the Republicans pass it, the kids all get health care. If the Republicans vote against it (or lose it in committee), the attack ads write themselves. This is an excellent move by Kerry, and I hope to see a lot more like it.

I viewed the video with as much objectivity as I could muster, and as far as I'm concerned, I'll give John Kerry as much ammunition and support as he needs to take this to the Senate. Notice that he focuses on the children: I will introduce a bill to provide every child in America with health insurance.

He doesn't say "all Americans with health insurance," he says "every child in America with health insurance."

John Kerry has obviously learned the art of framing the message. The fact he's done it with a message through the Internet, bypassing the mainstream media, may perhaps force the MSM to address it. And that's a smart move.

[JD Lau]

62. Excellent comments!!!! Thank you for pointing all these

things out. I do agree with you completely in the position Kos points out..."excellent move by Kerry."

I am finding much helpful dialogue here.

JD

[hippiegranny]

35. even if signing doesn't help

it sure as hell can't hurt, now can it? Think of doing this for some of the people we are supposedly so concerned about - kids with no health care. This is not about stroking Kerry's ego. We cannot allow the war (fraud) to blind us of the human costs of Bush policies. Life can go on while we battle the election fraud issue.

[4democracy]

38. There is strength in numbers, and if Kerry can show the Senate

that he has support from people all across the country, in THEIR states,then he is more likely to gain support from the Senators themselves. Maybe after gaining a lot of support for a bill for children that has a widespread appeal, then he can turn to more controversial matters like election reform and the Senate will actually pay attention. He does say he will fight for a standard in federal elections.

[TexanDem]

37. Personally I'm pretty fed up with the whole bunch of 'em

Kerry has been so illusive, and so have the rest of the Party leaders. Basically they've all been so darn conciliatory, "Alas, yes, Bush won!" There's no fight left in any of them. I was even disappointed in Bill Clinton's "I liked both of them!" comment. What's that all about! They were so vicious to him. And Hillary was just too darn nice about it all on Larry King! Quite frankly, MHO, the whole bunch has failed us again, just like they did after 9/11 when they gave Bush every freaking thing he wanted with no questions asked, no counterbalance. And besides all that, even if there was somebody in background jumping up and down (like us!!!) the media won't tell the world about it!!
I sometimes wonder how much of all this was preplanned from the beginning. Kerry appeared to be the "chosen boy" during the primaries by all - both parties and the media. And it wasn't that he was doing so wonderful, it was by default, because they would discredit all his opponents one by one till he was the only one left standing! Poor Dean and Clark - they didn't have a chance! I've decided this whole situation is WAY bigger than any of us can even imagine or hope to have any control over. The Admin is getting stronger and more scary every day. Even the moderate Repubs are starting to get nervous. I had bad feelings of foreboding in 1999 when Bush "won" over McCain, but it's much worse now than I had even imagined then. This is a serious situation in my opinion, folks, and just leaves me feeling pretty sick about what's ahead -- as though what we've already been through isn't horrifying in itself! And now the Dems are talking about how they need to move center to get in the game again!! What's that!! That sure goes along with Bush's statement (paraphrased): I'll meet you part way as long as you agree with me! And the Dems say, Okay. we'll move!
I know you guys seem to like upbeat optimism, but personally, I don't see too many bright clouds ahead. Sorry for the sad diatribe, but just wanted to get it off my chest.

PS - have y'all seen the webpage: http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

[tbuddha]

39. I think he is doing all he can...

He said "Regardless of the outcome of this election.." That speaks volumes to me. He's making sure every vote gets counted but he has to do it under the MSM radar. Why else would he come out with this message on a friday, and only by email to supporters? Next week is Thanksgiving so media will be lax. I think he wanted to get a sly message out while also promoting his health bill as a cover.

[mak3cats]

40. His email was entitled "The next step". My reply to him follows...

Dear Senator Kerry,

How can we take the next step when I feel we haven't finished the last one yet? The voting irregularites all across the country need to be investigated! Otherwise, we Democrats can forget it going forward and we'll be a right-wing dictatorship before the end of this decade. I'm very concerned.

(Signature)

[JD Lau]

66. Thanks for posing your response to Kerry...Here's mine:

Senator Kerry:

I can understand your desire to keep the momentum going.

But there are thousands upon thousands of people that have been affected by the election - the way they were treated, and most especially how they feel about not knowing if their vote counted or not.

I am aware that we have had problems in the past as a country with the voting issue: blacks being denied the vote, ballot boxes being stuffed, etc. But I do not think we have ever seen the kind of obvious harassment and tampering that has appeared to have happened in this past election.

It is my feeling that until the issue of transparency in voting and the issue of making certain the upcoming electronic voting boxes are tamperproof...until those issues are addressed...we will not be able to proceed forward with any unity. And, if you are looking for any support on a large scale, until you address the voting issue you will not have a unified front.

I want you to know I supported your election efforts with every ounce of strength I had and with all the money I had available. I also want you to know I appreciate the person that you are. I don’t know if I will sign your petition or not right now. I am concentrating my effort toward support for voting reform.

I send you best wishes.

Signature

[BurlingtonPatriot]

41. I think it might be over

I really want to believe otherwise, but after reading this letter I'm beginning to think it's really over. Why is he donating all the rest of his campaign cash to the DNC? What is Kerry doing behind the scenes that could turn this around in time?

My heartache was temporarily muted when I came here the week following the election. I'm so happy I found this site and I thank all of you who have basically proven (to folks like me anyway) that the outcome was probably fixed.

I'm not sure what I'm most upset about:

1) The actual election fraud

2) The ignoring of it by the media (but Scott Peterson is GUILTY!)

3) The apparent lack of response by the Democrats

I'm sorry to sound like a downer- I really hope I'm wrong with this. Maybe I'm becoming a Democrat, a weak pussy that wants to curl up in a fetal position and claim defeat, instead of stand up and doing something when you get fucked over.

My $.02
Thanks for letting me rant

[New Earth]

42. again, with the 'rewriting history' comments

child healthcare is definately an important issue, i have a 4 year old daughter and believe, i NEED it (by the way, she just got Chicken Pox today :( )

BUT - i don't see child healthcare as 'rewriting history'. Doesn't 'rewriting' something mean changing the outcome, altering events?

[New Earth]

44. WTF

i did not post this 5 minutes ago. why did it move to the top again?

this happens to me all the time. topics appear to be updated with new times, yet there is no new reply.

wtf?

[burned]

47. it does

I really feel good about his letter.

[Nightjock]

48. I'm not sure what your question is

but I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. I have two kids of my own and I do not want to appear to be callous about Kerrys proposal.
I just think if we don't expose this stolen election it makes no sense to talk about future elections or anything else.

America as we know it has changed since bush stole the presidency.
In many respects, we almost live in a facist country.

[JD Lau]

69. "almost?"

[intelle]

95. We already live in a fascist nation

Our votes do not count, and our Constitution is a thing of the past.

It may take a bit more time for those who voted for the shrub to realize this, but, when that happens, there will be no stopping us. We WILL PREVAIL.

[Nightjock]

45. Nothing else matters

until the election fraud is exposed.

[New Earth]

46. LOL

WHY WONT' ANYONE ANSWER MY QUESTION!!!!! GRRRRRR

[bleever]

56. About topics moving to the top? I think it's because someone

interjected a response to a comment up above. It doesn't show up at the bottom, it show up under the post it responds to. Watch the post #s on the far right.

Does this answer your question?

:hi:

[New Earth]

58. yup

thank you :)

[JD Lau]

74. But when will THIS be? This year? Next year? The year after that?

How long are you prepared for "nothing else to matter?"

To me, this is a very non-productive attitude to have...because I, for one, have had many many times in my life where there was something that I felt was VERY VERY IMPORTANT...but nothing was happening on that front and I had to get on with my life until something did. So...what my question is, then, is what are ya gonna do until then(until the election fraud is exposed)? Sit on a milk crate/computer box/rock somewhere and suck your thumb/eat potato chips/pick your nose? What are ya gonna do?

[indigo11153]

79. Ditto

Nothing else matters!

The republicans get what they want by single minded ruthless attacks. They repeat a lie until they make it true. They attack, attack, attack and they don't drop an issue until they get their way. F#ck compromise. We have to fight our way out of this hole. The leaders in our party have not learned a damn thing. They must go. If you don't have to pay for your mistakes then you don't learn from them. I think Democrats should fight Bush at every turn and I think they should be out front about it. This child health care thing is a joke. This is not a wedge issue. Will we have a national debate about this? No. It doesn't rank. Republicans don't care about this. They may lie about it but they don't care. They don't care that people are dying in Iraq. I am not signing this. It is a message to move on. I am not doing it. I am not moving on.

[Cookie wookie]

67. People I know seemed to be hopeful and energized by

his message. I didn't want to say anything because why rain on anyone's parade, but it seemed ludicrous to me.

I agree with those who posted that the only issue right now is to track down and catch voter fraud, if it happened. We can't let this one go without going to every extreme to audit this election. Stealing elections is the same as if an army invaded and took over the country. Just because it's bloodless, at least for those of us not in Iraq, etc., doesn't make it less an overthrow of our government.

What possible chance does anyone think we have, including Kerry, to turn things around politically in this country without being able to vote and have our votes count?

And how could anyone think that if the Holt Bill couldn't get through Congress during the last couple of years, that it will now?

Are we to stand around and grovel at the feet of those who steal the election and hold illegitimate power -- looking for crumbs?

As far as health care for children, of course we want it, but this isn't time for marketing touchy feely issues. Let's get realistic. We've seen what millions of people marching, writing, emailing, phoning, faxing, door knocking, donating money, organizing, etc. did to effect change for the good in the last four years - NOTHING.

Why? Because the vote is the only way we can hold anyone accountable, and if it's stolen by the bad guys, and they know they can keep doing it, all they do is laugh at all our work and shove us aside or roll over us with their tanks.

For Kerry put a petition for children's healthcare at the top of the list, without bothering with a petition to audit the vote, is weak, pathetic and out of touch with reality, not to mention a body slam to everyone working to audit the election.

He's doing just what the media does -- knocks the wind out of anything that is starting to gain momentum against these huge wrongs.

I love Kerry and Edwards. But this isn't time for a Hallmark moment. Sorry to be so blunt and negative. I just want to say, "Snap out of it! Wake up! This is war! Plan the attack, hit the battle stations! The country has been attacked! Fight! Fight! It's no time to plan redecorating the house when it's on fire!

[shakerbaker]

70. Very Well Said! nt

[JD Lau]

75. OK, then, what is your advice. Fight. How? What do you

propose for us to do? Give me some direction as to what you want to do.

Thanks.

[Cookie wookie]

80. Well, I know what I'm doing to fight.

What's right in front of me, which right now is putting recounts as my top and only priority.

So I'm trying to help raise money for the Green's Ohio recount in whatever way I can (emailing friends and family, etc). I've already donated what I could. Eloriel posted an explanation of the different groups who are collecting money for recounts, but I'm focusing my efforts on helping to fund the Green Party's recount.

I just got an email back from a friend at the Ga GP, in response to a question I asked him this morning about the status of their funding, since I was hearing different information, that Cobb had enough and then that he didn't.

I've posted what he said below.

I also was searching the DU website for the post that was asking for money for Cobb's recount but couldn't find it yet. Does anyone have a link? Don't want to start a new thread if I can locate the old one.

So, I'm doing what I can on the problem at hand. I can't think beyond that yet.

Here's the email from my friend re: funding Cobb's recount:

"Right now we are at: $228,401.19 of the $250,000 we're out to raise by Monday. That leaves us $21,600 shy of our goal. Full details of how we anticipate spending the money are posted to the front page at: http://www.votecobb.org/

Our attorneys have already dlivered the bond for the $116,300 bond to secure our right to demand the recount.

We also still need another 1,400 volunteers willing to go to Ohio. Most of the funds are to support such a large volunteer team with housing and meals, I think.

Thanks for your help!"

[indigo11153]

81. Damn good post

"this isn't time for a Hallmark moment." LOL I love that line.:toast:

[sportndandy]

76. Get 10 people to sign it

It will show that people are paying attention and that we have not given up. The more people who sign, the more clout Kerry will have if he presses forward with a recount and/or electoral reform.

[Woo]

83. From what I've heard...

Kerry is a VERY VERY VERY indecisive guy -- reports are they took his cell phone away from him twice during the campaign because they couldn't get anything done. That doesn't make me like him any less, I guess he just wants to be sure-- my point is, he's probably got several different people telling him things and he can't make up his mind -- which is why we got a message that seemed to go one way OR just in case that doesn't work out... the other way.

I'm all for forgetting about Kerry, we've decided that this election was rigged and that's the end of it.

BUT...

Having Kerry there would help -- if he is stuck for what to do, you have to realize this is a decision of a lifetime... which will start the fight of his lifetime -- and unless definitive proof of fraud is found will rip this country apart -- even more divided than it already is -- it really is winner takes all if he withdraws his concession and decides to join us.

My advice -- JUST DO IT -- sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith(Democrats have faith too ya know)

[politicasista]

87. So he his a flip-flopper?

I thought he would be decisive. Some people think the Dems served up another "dud." Not me though Dean and Edwards were okay.

[Cookie wookie]

88. A flip-flopper?

Wonder where you heard that?

This thread isn't about trashing Kerry with Rove bull crap talking points.

[politicasista]

91. I was posting in reply to Woo

I don't want to trash Kerry. I shouldn't respond to negative garbage.

[Woo]

97. Wrong word

I made it a point of not using the word flip flop and the word indecisive might not have been proper either--Although I do believe the story about the phone, which came from a Newsweek reporter-- Anyway, I would rather have a guy that you have to take his cell phone away from because he wants to make sure he's making the right decision any day -- over a guy that doesn't have the brain capacity to even understand the issue -- then calls himself resolute... because he won't change his mind... which by the way he's most likely WRONG 99.9% of the time.(I gave him the benefit of the doubt on .01% because every dog does have his day -- but I'm sure he could manage to fuck that up too)

[sportndandy]

90. Got 3 so far

7 to go

[Cha]

103. Wow! Watching that Kerry video

had me in tiny tears again. I thought it was an intelligent approach to this limbo zone we're in now..very poignant and pro-ACTIVE!

What was the question? Oh, yeah..I signed it..and I'm continuing to support him..

and I think bush is in the process of stealing another election and I can't wait to see him eviserated for his crimes against humanity!