No Jeff Fisher is not a nutcase....and if this thread should disappear....

[illuminaughty]

I now know what will probably bring down this administration...DU! I've always been amazed at how brilliant everyone here is, between the number crunchers and researchers, we ARE Woodward and Bernstein!

It is creepy though when you read a thread and you find yourself part of the clues to the puzzle. I'm referring to the most recent Jeff Fisher thread that had some amazing finds in it.

I'm not trying to be all cloak and dagger here, but we are talking about some very powerful people, so I'm proceeding with caution.
A couple of nights ago there was a phone # for Mr. Fisher on a thread.
After someone here called and got a response, I tried it, as did many, but the voice mail was full. I received a return phone call in the morning. Yes, they did hack his site and the site at Yahoo. Bev Harris site has been messed with and I'm having trouble accessing it
now. Many blog sites are being interfered with also.

I don't think anyone should assume someone like Mr. Fisher is just dropping names or is disingenuous just because someone denies having spoken to him. For God's sake, the past four years have been denial after denial even when there is irrefutable proof (like a video) of something. The first time I was aware of Jeff Fisher's theory/evidence was reading it here on DU and it was a light bulb moment.
Having read the most recent thread on this subject, I'm aware that people remembered when I first posted "problems" with voters here in K.C. At that time, I had no idea what direction this would take me or that I'd end up on Mr. Fisher's site. I can't say much more, but promise that when I can I will share it with the great people here. What I can say is keep the research that you were uncovering on that thread going. It's important. Also, if anyone has a direct way to reach Bev or Greg Palast (phone preferably) I'd appreciate it. I've secured things on my part and am proceeding with caution. I'm now going to sleep as I haven't gotten much in the last 48 hours.
Please keep adding info to these two threads. Very helpful.
Just do be aware, (and yes, we will need to restock the stores to provide enough Reynolds wrap for all of us,) that they are visiting our little site. And we don't want to help them in our discovery process. I'm hoping this is the week this will begin to break wide open. The fact that this has taken place statewide may just be the thing we need to wake America up!

[Woo]

1. I KNEW IT...

Keep up the good fight -- good luck(to all of us)

:::crunch::::
::::crunch::::
:::crunch::::
Reynold's wrap chafes

[rockedthevoteinMA]

2. I just hope everyone is being safe...

I know that is a cryptic comment to make, but this scares me so much. These people will stop at nothing (as we all have witnessed). So please be safe!

[illuminaughty]

5. Thank you for the thought. I didn't want this to appear like a vanity

post. I just thought it would be easier and safer, in a way ,to be upfront about this, since people were speculating. There are so many brave people on this site and others, that are coming out with stories and facts in a time when we're told that dissent will get you carried off to Gitmo. The more we fight together and speak out, the safer we are. They can't take on all of us.

[Eloriel]

19. You are 100% correct -- the MORE people know, the safer all are

I think back to Danny Casalaro -- who kept all his info to himself. Dangerous, dangeorus, as Danny proved. Whatever people know, SPREAD THE WORD, make it known to everyone you can think of, and as public as possible.

Better to be a live "conspiracy theorist" than a dead one.

[kk897]

24. Danny Casolaro

...coincidentally, I was just thinking about him and wondering what might have happened if DU was around when he was still alive.

I was also thinking about if the Web was around in 1930s Germany, would that have had an impact on Hitler's rise to power? Can you imagine Gestappo tactics broadcast the world over by "antihitler.com" bloggers?

Looking for a little hope here...

[PeterPan]

32. if anyone calls you a 'conspiracy theorist'

accept it and tell them that they are a 'coincidence theorist'

(to paraphrase michael ruppert)

[Straight Shooter]

38. I say, "I'll remove my tinfoil hat if you'll remove your tinfoil blinders"

I don't take crap from people. In fact, I've actually created quite a few more tinfoil-hat wearers in my community :)

[illuminaughty]

3. Yeah, that was spooky to find people looking for me

Especially when I had just seen that he added that info to his site. I think I'm going to have to rent Mel's "conspiracy theory" tonight. Get some decorating ideas for my house. Like machine gun turrets. lol

[rockedthevoteinMA]

4. I forgot to add a thank you to my post

So Thank you for all that you are doing. Anyone who has the guts to take a stand right now deserves major gratitude.
"I think I'm going to have to rent Mel's "conspiracy theory" tonight. Get some decorating ideas for my house. Like machine gun turrets. lol"
I wonder if the movie rental places have enough copies to go around? lol.

[Pepper32]

6. Speaking of tin foil hats...

This past thursday I saw a policeman demand my mailman to reopen our mailboxes (I stay in an apartment). The policeman then proceeded to pull the mail out of each mailbox and read the outside and put it back in the box.

I was peeping the whole time, so they did not know I was watching.

Is this a something I should be concerned about or do I need to adjust my tin foil hat(to tight perhaps)?

[oldtime dfl_er]

8. nothing to be worried about...

if you live in Communist China! Good Lord, did this really happen?

[Pepper32]

43. Taking off the tin foil hat!

Yes, this really happened and it had me concerned but I thought I was overreacting. Now you have me thinking worse case scenarios.

My husband keeps jokingly saying, "Cheney is after me." :tinfoilhat:

Although, the policeman didn't specifically target my mailbox, he "inspected" the mail of everyone in my section (9 boxes).

[genieroze]

15. Was the cop a fed?

It's a federal offense to tamper with the mail, unless you are a fed. I would call a lawyer if it was your box.

[Pepper32]

46. No, he was not a fed. It was my box and 8 of my neighbors!

I can't figure out why he would take the mail out of each of our mailboxes and "inspect" it? And the mailman just stood their with a nonchalant look on his face. I have never witness something so boldly suspicious.

Anyway, thanks for your advice. Now I don't feel so "tin FOILish" for thinking this should NOT have been happening.

[dewaldd]

27. kick

[Solitaire]

44. ummmm, I do believe that is completely illegal

or did things change that much?

Isn't it a Federal offense to tamper with mail?

[batchdem04]

7. check ur PM illuminaughty

[savetheuniverse]

9. DU is also being messed with

I don't remember when it started, but a few days ago, everytime I tried to go to DU from scratch, this weird slightly pornographic shit kept cuming up (yes, "cum" -- all over it -- cum drinking crap). Don't know what that was about. I was able to get back through my bookmarks. You all know I'm an internet illiterate and a newbie in training (thanks for not getting out the pliers) so I don't know...anyone else have that problem or is it the tin foil melting again?

Also, if anyone is listening to me: there was a sort of "DU dictionary" I found while browsing through one of the threads on newbies--thought I bookmarked it but have since lost it again. Does anyone have time for such trivialities? IF so can someone tell me where to find the DU dictionary?

Thanks,

[rockedthevoteinMA]

10. here ya go -

newbie here too, but I found the dictionary. :)

http://dug.seattleactivist.org/#m

I haven't had problems like that, but I did have difficulty at the beginning of last week getting on.

[genieroze]

16. I was having problems

but nothing like nasty pics, just a slow connection to this site. My other sites worked fine.

[savetheuniverse]

11. PS ...

Have drums (lots), will travel...


www.chidjembe.com

[Scout1071]

12. KC

I'm in KC as well and know of a couple of instances where friends were turned away on voting day or forced to vote via provisional. Is it a coincidence that they registered to vote at the library and yet, mysteriously, they were not on the voter rolls when they showed to cast their vote? Does anyone know if Nathan Sprouls & Assoc worked in the KC area to register voters? Seems like their M.O. in other swing states had them registering voters at libraries, then shredding Dem forms upon returning to the office. As far as the charge of voter suppression, I would be curious to contact rejected voters and find out what percentage of them registered at public libraries with the Sprouls people. Or somehow get the records of where Sprouls workers were sent (they hired varioius temp agencies for workers) and compare to the number of rejected voters who claimed to have registered in the same area.

Oddly, when watching the returns come in that night, Kerry was winning Missouri until around 9pm. This from a state that the Bush people thought was a lock and both parties had stopped much of the advertising. But I knew that there was huge ground swell surge for Kerry leading up to 11/2. You could literally feel it around the city. So, how does Dubya magically overcome all the exit polls and the actual poll so late in the game?

[pbartch]

14. SPROULS & Assoc were registering (committin FRAUD) here in Oregon

I haven't stayed on the story to see if the Oregon Secretary of State has investigated further. Our Senator Ron Wyden was PO'ED about that.

Funny that the story died down. Our state elected officials threatened????

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. I am in KC too

and I know two women - both minorities - who were not allowed to vote. One in Jackson County, the other in Cass County.

[pbartch]

13. I posted this to a DEM group I started and on a DEM Yahoo group

We need to wake America up! IS HELP ON THE WAY???????

[simply_the_best]

17. Can you hear me?

I'm having to whisper into the transmitter in the heel of my shoe. The school is surrounded, and they're coming in. Please send for help..... and beer, lots of beer, and a vegetable curry, and more batteries, yes, more batteries. Can you smell the conspiracy from there? It's thrilling:)

[MarkusQ]

18. Fishy, if not a nut case

I have a problem with Jeff Fisher web of conspiracy--the very fact that it is a web. It consists of literally hundreds of unsourced, unsubstantiated "links" with nudge-nudge-wink-wink implications. And any time anyone questions the source or significance of something, the response seems to involve another half dozen seemingly unrelated entities tied in with more unsourced, unsubstantiated "links." You could spend literally years on it without getting to the bottom.

This does not mean that it is true or false, but it does make me wonder: even if you could get to the bottom of it, could you communicated to anyone what you had learned in less time than it took you to learn it? More to the point, could you convince them? Especially if, in order to do so, you had to drag in an unending series of mysterious connections between people who are primarily of interest because of the mysterious connections.

In science, this sort of thing is called "unfalsifiable" and the principle is, if it isn't defined in such a way that it could, in principle, be proved false there is not point trying to "prove" it correct since doing so proves nothing.

On the other hand, the head of the committee to reelect the president in at least two states was also the person in charge of allocating resources to polling places, and there is clear evidence that this was done in such a way as to disadvantage the opposition. People have been caught destroying records. People have been caught throwing out voter registrations. Machines have systematically miscounted votes in several places. And so forth.

In each of the later set of cases, there is clear, well sourced, and undisputed evidence of what a reasonable person might term fraud. It isn't a matter of nudge-nudge-wink-wink, and it doesn't require a huge maze of ad hoc "links" to make the case.

Should we chase a cloud of shadows or follow up on concrete leads? I am not saying Fisher is "wrong," I'm saying that he and his supporters (who seem to be small in number) are saying an awful lot of things without backing much of it up, and I smell a troll. If there's something more substantial and less convoluted, I'd love to hear it. Until then, I plan to keep my eye on the ball.

-- MarkusQ

[Spiffarino]

21. Hear, hear. n/t

[Woo]

22. We shall see said the blind man...

I have said many many many times that we need to continue along the path of building evidence, challenges... recounts, so on so forth -- is ANYBODY sitting and waiting for the Fisher case to break hoping it will be our saving grace?

I don't think so.

I think people are watching the Fisher story with interest -- and they are also in the discovery phase; attempting to put the pieces of the characters together-- but I do think everyone knows we shouldn't pin our hopes on the story breaking anytime soon, even though that would be nice --

I DON'T think the Fisher story is a plant -- never have -- it's way too complex and has way too many fingerprints of dirty dealings by Republicans on it. I believe the Fisher story holds A LOT of water -- and it would give me no greater pleasure than to watch the Bush family go down in flames with a crime of this magnitude... but I'm not holding my breath.

Anyway between the efforts of building the statistical models ... request for FOI... challenges... lawsuits... recounts -- and then the Fisher story --

My personal theory is... the two sides are on a collision course.

But we shall see, won't we.

[BlueDog2u]

39. I'm completely with you on this assessment, Woo

"I DON'T think the Fisher story is a plant -- never have -- it's way too complex and has way too many fingerprints of dirty dealings by Republicans on it. I believe the Fisher story holds A LOT of water -- and it would give me no greater pleasure than to watch the Bush family go down in flames with a crime of this magnitude... but I'm not holding my breath."

[Carl Brennan]

40. I agree with you here. There are alot of people in high places

who would be pulling out all their dirty tricks to stop a guy like Fisher if indeed he was telling the truth.

[lthuedk]

29. Once again....Evidence in a potential criminal action will NOT

be broadcast. That would give the defendant the opportunity to prepare a defense.

Please, stop basing your doubts on withholding of evidence!

[MarkusQ]

41. Good point

Good point, but the wisest course of action it the same either way:

Focus on finding and documenting problems with the recent election.

It may turn out that Jeff Fisher will have the rest of the picture tied up with a ribbon for us when we're done. Or not. But there's no point in running around trying to "connect the dots" if we can't see the dots, no matter what the reason.

-- MarkusQ

[Tuddie]

20. Jeff's Email today re 1st Amendment Rights

Mrs. Gettysburg II just received a new email from Jeff Fisher:

From: "Jeff Fisher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Attempted Violation of my First Amendment Rights/Press info
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:31:44 -0500

To Commissioner Aaronson and everyone I blind copied: Please read this email and forward this to everyone you know.

Mr. Aaronson is a County Commissioner in Palm Beach, Florida. He is a Democrat who can be reached at [phone] or you can email him at [e-mail].

This to inform you all that the press has been suppressing the news regarding the recount in New Hampshire, Ohio and the efforts we are making leading to the possible recount of Florida's certified votes. Ask Mr. Aaronson to lead the charge in Palm Beach County, as he is famous for fighting for Democracy even when the odds are stacked up against it or him. Mr. Aaronson is well respected and treated as a hero in the Boca Raton area and he is very good friends with Congressman Robert Wexler and State Senator Ron Klein.

The night of Nov. 19, 2004 my website was hacked into and I couln't access it. The website http://www.JeffFisherforCongress was altered three times over the next 18 hours by those hackers. The homepage is useless. Most of the links don't work. We also have discovered that the ElectionFraud2004 yahoo group through its moderator has been posting messages to the net. However, since November 16, 2004 none of those messages have reached the Internet after being posted. ElectionFraud2004 acts like a town center for people who want to post suspicious incidents and information regarding this past General Election.

Update to this message: 1:30 p.m. November 20, 2004, the yahoo group, Election Fraud 2004 posted messages finally came through the Internet. Whomever had the capability and technology to stop the messages from going from the yahoo server to the net withheld it for three plus days. That is how they can stop the news from reaching the people in a timely fashion.

Update to this message: 3:30 p.m. November 20, 2004, the website is up and running with the help of David Toppings from Arizona. Thank you. America thanks Mr. Toppings.

That is the act of a group of people who are trying to suppress the truth. I can't prove who they are but let the assumptions begin. I will find another way to get the message out. I have just begun to fight for this nation. If you know anything about the book DUNE, then you will understand "the sleeper has awakened".

Jeff Fisher
561-889-2165

P.S. They have hacked into Bev Harris's computer recently at Black Box Voting and several people that I have been consulting with in the state of Washington, North Carolina, New York, California and Minnesota. As of today I am getting information that blog sites are getting hacked into also.

Remember, the Watergate break-in was done by a few and it took time for that to unfold. This time we have the Internet and if "We the People" spread the word they won't be able to stop all of us.

[New Earth]

23. good

i was wondering wtf was up with that yahoo group, i am on it as well and i had the same problem - i didnt get ANY of the messages for at least 3 days, and yesterday they all came in a bombardment - i guess someone got in and fixed whatever was done by the hackers.

THEY CANNOT STOP THIS, NO MATTER HARD THEY TRY.
Don't they realize that the more they do this, the more apparent it is that we are right????

Bush can run, but he can't hide.

[GetTheRightVote]

25. Kick it just in case truthful

[proudtobeadem]

31. What Yahooo group is this? I am a newbie

[New Earth]

33. it's called ElectionFraud2004 - yahoo groups

[joeunderdog]

47. Had the same problem with Air America. Tried 3X. n/t

[go west young man]

26. I too am all for exposing any wrongdoing

by this administration but I am seriously wondering about Jeff Fisher. I think that there is a good chance that the school in Florida and all we have heard ( as far fetched as it seems) may be true. The Republicans seem to do this kind of stuff without ever acknowledging to each other that they are doing this kind of stuff. Therefore evidence and proof are hard to come up with. But Jeff Fisher (who may be truly onto something) is hurting his own case when he puts words in peoples mouths (Nader spokesman) and when he uses an analogy like "Dune". Who is going to take him seriously? And even if he's right he's talking to the FBI who are controlled by the ones he's accusing. So they can easily discredit him just because of some of the things he's saying. It is all cloak and dagger feeling. Believe me I don't trust this administration but I worry that whatever is there factually may get distorted by the outlandishness of Mr' Fishers approach.

[PaulaGem]

28. Yahoo group -

this is a number to corporate, 408-349-3300

Tell them you want to talk to management in the bbs dept. Tell the switchboard your next call is to the FBI because you know they have a security leak.

Things happen on the stock boards that should no happen, they do have people paying off employees and messing with stuff.

Report it to the FBI too.

[senegal1]

34. Don't know about this

another person on the BBV website mentioned that he was helping the Fisher website and that the problem was with something called "Dreamweaver" being used incorrectly and that the site was NOT hacked. You can check it out on the BBV.org website under I think Bay Point Schools.

[Solitaire]

45. Dreamweaver

is a Web Design program.

I use it and have never heard of a problem where people were able to change things.

Now, if you don't use it correctly, the links might not work but the program would not -change- the content of a site that was already designed and uploaded.

[Pooka Fey]

35. kick

[KoKo]

36. To believe Jeff Fisher we need to know his background, connections

and how he got where he is. Otherwise, he does seem to be a little "OTT."

I'm a DU "tinfoilhatter" and so I like to read everything that's OTT...but given what we are up against to sidetrack ourselves with Fisher could be opening us up to stuff we don't need right now.

As much as I love to read Michael Ruppert...and believe much of what he says...there comes a point where you have to pull yourself back and look for "motivations" on both sides...

I did some Googling when the Fisher/Bay Point story was posted. I'm not convinced that Fisher has something. :shrug: But, I still keep reading. Not going to support him..at this point.

[Tuddie]

42. Yep, it would be good to learn more about Jeff Fisher...

Just for the record: Gettysburg II & Mrs. are not in any way officially connected to JF. Me neither. However, the same courtesy is being extended to him as to anyone seeking truth and transparency regarding the 2004 elections. Whether Fisher has something or not remains to be seen. So as not to become sidetracked, healthy skepticism and caution are, of course, recommended. An examination of "motivations" is also a good idea. Indeed, we are up against serious threats to democracy and focus is of utmost concern.

[Garbo 2004]

37. I thought Fisher said on his site before that he had spoken with Palast

or his staff. Fisher changes his site so much I can't find some of the earlier stuff. Perhaps he has Palast's phone number.