Are we urinating into the prevailing advection about a possible reversal

[karlrschneider]

of the 04 vote? I mean, is there -really- any chance that * won't be sworn in for a 2nd term? From what I hear not only locally, but in the MSM (which is what most people go by) it's a done deal. Yes, I know...I would give anything I own to overturn what's being (and been) reported, but I just can't imagine the possibility. Exposing voting fraud is surely possible or probable, but is there really any chance of it changing the seemingly accepted "results"? Is it time for us to switch from challenging the outcome and move toward impeachment (as unlikely as that is)?

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[IAMREALITY]

1. Smackkkkk Snap Out Of It!!!

Who gives a fuck about what anyone or even everyone around you is saying. NO it is not time to switch. The electoral college meets Dec 13th and the votes read on Jan 6th. We have until then to uncover whatever we can, plus we have recounts going on, poll tapes in garbages, etc... You never know what more might come out in the next few weeks. Think about it, look how much has been exposed already! I am confident in the coming weeks this will gain more and more momentum and force its way into the MSM. Stay focused, stay confident, stay proud. Fat lady ain't singin yet.

[karlrschneider]

6. thanks, I need that slap.

:D
(Hang in there Karlschneider, don't be a wuss)
;-)

[nashville_brook]

8. nice reality check

sometimes we just need to be reminded

[cloudythescribbler]

40. proving election fraud and getting justice are two different things

You know, we HAVE already proven (see Fitrakis & Wasserman's article at Truthout.org) that the election was stolen. But the system is NOT going to give in just because they are shown to be obviously wrong, just as in 2000. The struggle against an unjust system is essential, as it was in the Vietnam War, in the Iraq War, in the Yugoslavia War, and in a myriad of other things. Are we supposed to simply let the mainstream media pretend that Oliver Stone is just a nut and that there was no Kennedy assassination conspiracy? A Democratic Undergroud in predicated on the struggle for democracy. And that's what we must do -- precisely when there is VIRTUALLY NO CHANCE that the system will remedy its proven failures. Indeed, it is getting more imperialist all the time. But the more clearly the public knows what is happening, which is not now the case, and won't be unless we struggle with the mainstream media coverup, the stronger the overall struggle for democracy will be. We MUST struggle with a focus on OVERTURNING THIS ELECTION FRAUD THIS TIME -- and those who don't like the NY Times are not REALLY serious in their concern for election reform either, just in keeping up appearances so that they can appeal to little fishes.
Please check out my posting below on the rationale for struggle even if we assume there will NOT be a reversal.

[IAMREALITY]

47. Welcome to DU... You're Preaching to me Why??????

Ssssmmmmackkkk!

[googly]

2. We should put all our energy now into 2006....much more productive use of

our energy and resources and time and efforts. We need a WINNING formula . The Kerry formula was unfortunately not good enough to win a landslide. WE NEED A LANDSLIDE FORMULA.

[IAMREALITY]

5. What Kerry Formula

Oh, you mean playing fair and not cheating? Yeah, I guess that strategy did fail him in the end...

:eyes:

(but on a side note, welcome to DU!)

[googly]

13. Bill Clinton had the winning formula....the repugs had no way of

cheating his overwhelming landslide over Bush I & Dole.
That is what I am talking about. I want a win...dammit not trying to turn a few thousand votes around. If we win by millions of votes, there is no room for cheating. The Black box machines are powerless to change the outcome by double digit percentages over exit polling.

[txindy]

18. Clinton's strategy was a winner, all right

Brilliant of him to run before electronic voting machines were spread throughout the nation into critical states, wasn't it? :eyes:

You have heard that the repubs are planning to do away with exit polling, right? Forget double digit percentages over exit polling. Nothing will be beyond that. Landslides won't matter.

[Carni]

60. Did it ever occur to you that maybe Bob Dole was above cheating?

I can't stand Bob Dole but he's a far cry from the Bush reich.

The "winning" strategy is to uncover the fraud that has been committed in two Presidential elections.

[BeFree]

10. It was a Landslide

The turnout this election was HUGE. It was a record turnout, it was a landslide. But it was stolen. As the next 50 elections will be if we don't stop it at this one.

Look at it this way, googly, do you really think the American people are so stupid as to elect the bxxx? Cause if you do, we never stood a chance and we never will, no matter what formula we come up with since it almost has to be truth based.

[pacalo]

20. The Kerry "formula" was most certainly worthy of a landslide.

In fact, the exit polls predicted a Kerry win, & they have always been accurate (until Bushitler began stealing elections, that is) -- just ask Zogby who predicted a Kerry win.

I'll never forget the huge momentum Kerry had going. And no one will ever convince me this election wasn't stolen from him.





And Bushitler knows it, too

[shelley806]

23. These photos are great, but they make me so sad...I was so

hopeful, and convinced of a Kerry victory on the eve of the election.
Damn B* & co.

[pacalo]

26. I posted them so they we won't forget how massive the crowds were

across the country. People who are hungry & desperate for a change were coming out in droves to support Kerry.

I heard Zogby actually predict on the Daily Show that Kerry would win; that's how sure he was. Since then, Zogby has had several articles on his website that support election fraud. Zogby KNOWS the election wasn't on the square.

Here are some more pictures, shelley. :)

[New Earth]

27. :(

this is making me sad, and angry.

[shelley806]

29. Absolutely awesome! Thanks so much. I saw Zogby on the

Today Show too and have read his recent posts speculating about what went wrong; I agree with you-He Knows! I just wish he and Kerry and others would start being more vocal, so the MSM would report on the Diebold connection, election fraud and voter supression, etc.

I love these photos. Kerry is the President IMHO.

[anamandujano]

33. glad I clicked on this thread

beautiful pictures!

[pacalo]

57. Save them for your own file & let's keep reminding people who

so easily forget! This country was HUNGRY for a change.

[angrydemocrat]

41. Let Me Say I Remember Those Big Crowds Well!!!!

Damn these pictures excite the hell out of ya and seeing Kerry damn that is always a big heart felt boost! I hope more people are waking up aroud here and coming back to reality! So many around here had given up hpoe and just give up on Kerry not me! He's the man. :loveya: Oh how I love this man!:loveya:

[pacalo]

58. Let's just keep reminding those who are easily discouraged &

susceptible to the media propaganda.

[glitch]

28. That last one is so creepy - reminds me of one of the first pics in 2000

of the inauguration. * was seated behind a window in a car, petulant, very mean look on his face. No mask on. Probably irritated at the protestors, but the look wasn't one of irritation.
I've never forgotten it.

[pacalo]

59. It was taken on the morning of the election. Says alot about his

frame of mind, doesn't it. I think what was going on in his mind that morning was worry that Kerry's landslide margin would be so great that he was concerned about the hackers getting the votes correctly bumped up.

[Yuugal]

22. we still have the same landslide formula we had in 2004

Bush is an asshat. Film at 11. :) Its only gonna get worse, and the more poop that hits the fan, the more things are gonna stink. Eventually even Ma and Pa Kettle in Nebraska are going to smell the truth and the party holding all 3 branches of govt is going be in for a world of hurt, no matter how many votes they steal.

To those who would say we need to move to the middle of the spectrum I say stay the course. The Nader crowd did the right thing for our party and I won't soon forget it. Nader himself can bugger off and die though IMHO. In fact, far from the predictions that we would all factionalize and fracture ourselves if we lost, it seems to me we are all holding together and are stronger and madder than ever.

As long as we are a true minority and not responsible for much govt-wise, we should can some vegetables at the DNC and DLC though. New faces all around, and when our chance comes, we jump on it Newt-style with fresh faces and new ideas.

[Carolab]

32. Oh COME ON MAN

There isn't going to BE ANY CHANCE OF ELECTING "WHO WE WANT" UNLESS WE GET THIS FRAUD EXPOSED AND GET THESE DAMN VOTING MACHINES OUT OF OUR SYSTEM. I SAY: SMASH 'EM ALL--JUST SMASH 'EM TO BITS!!!

[GingerSnaps]

34. No honey we are going after them NOW not next time

Get over it....Bush lost and he needs to be evicted in January!

[googly]

63. OK Honey! Whatever you say goes with me LOL

[Hobbes199]

62. There is no landslide

At least not in our favor. 2006 will be an even bigger joke, with more governors getting in on the scam, the senate getting enough seats to overrule any fillibustering, losing more house seats... They'll have perfected the system, and passed any more laws they need to get it done.

This will solemnify the end of our democracy if fraud is not proven now.

[pointsoflight]

3. Two things...

First, we should see this thing through. There's no reason to prematurely switch strategies before inauguration day.

Second, we need to expose the widespread problems in our electoral process, so as to enact change, and need to do so while the iron is still hot. If we don't succeed in doing this, we have little hope of gaining ground in future elections.

[GingerSnaps]

35. Hell NO

We are going after them now and we will not back down!

[pointsoflight]

61. I said that...

From my original post:

"First, we should see this thing through. There's no reason to prematurely switch strategies before inauguration day."

[billyoc]

4. I feel that Ohio will be flipped

for Kerry. Mind you, I've already resigned myself to another four years of watching my gov't export death and misery the world over, so I don't feel "desperate" for Kerry to win.

I just have a nagging feeling that he will. :shrug:

on edit: Remember they already flipped one congressional race in NH.

[UNIXcock]

7. Stay in touch this way ...

http://www.ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=197520

[Farah]

54. I'm LOVING this...

from this link...

"Contacting Kerry. 
If you would like to urge Kerry to withdraw his concession or
share information about election fraud, Cameron Kerry, John’s
brother is collecting comments. His email is:
[e-mail]"

wow... this is all making me feel so happy now =D

[nashville_brook]

9. yes, another reality check

i'm feeling better -- maybe i can go to bed soon.

[zann725]

30. I believe somehow it will reverse. Not exactly sure how...

But I deeply, DEEPLY believe it's Kerry's destiny to be President.

Thanks for the pics! How quick we forget the "landslide" crowds he drew. All those people didn't just quit believing. They're still out there somewhere...waiting...

I've read so often in these 'threads' that we all miss his voice, and seeing him daily on TV. Imagine how much he must miss us. We were all part of his life for nearly a year and a half. He doesn't seem the type to forget.

Keep the faith! :)

[GingerSnaps]

36. God is watching Bush and the rethugs

Bush is going to be taken out of office. His party stole the past several elections but this one has come back to bite them in the rear end.

Bush keeps pretending to be a holy Christian elected by God :eyes: and he keeps using God in everything that he does.

God is going to get back at Bush by making sure he doesn't rein for a second unelected term.

Sorry about the rant!

[cloudythescribbler]

39. We must struggle, but never assume system will react honestly

It has now been proven (see articles on voting machines in Ohio at truthout.org) that the Ohio election was stolen. The next step, as I noted in my post(which explains these issues more)about the necessity of this struggle to the MAX, EVEN IF WE ASSUME THE ELECTION WILL NOT BE REVERSED, is to piss not in the wind but in the faces of the mainstream media. By exposing their coverup of the voter fraud issue, and of the system's unwillingness to correct yet ANOTHER stolen election, we make the needed steps. Yes, we must insist that this election be honestly decided -- which would require a remedy like holding further voting in those precincts that had inadequate machines for those voters who didn't already cast ballots and who will attest that they showed up to vote but couldn't wait. But the system is about LAUNDERING not remedying. Only if enough retrievable votes are found in Ohio is there a chance, and even then we should remember that there were the votes in Florida and they didn't reverse.
So we MUST struggle to reverse THIS one, but WITHOUT illusions that the system will somehow magically open up and be honest. The courts are honest only in the movies. In the real America, it's all a family affair -- to railroad whatever the elite agenda is and make any excuse they please about it. And the media is a machine devoted to justifying the lying. If you want a REAL democracy, or a real republic, neither of which our system even approximates and is getting less so all the time, we need to challenge all the layers of oppression and sellouts that are just trying to get on the machine's gravy train.

In the peace movement in 2002-3 there were all kinds of people with illusions that the "people" could stop this war. We MUST build up a much LONGER term and more realistic vision. This election could be reversed, and beyonce might fall madly in love with me. But don't hold your breath.

[seito]

48. I have the same feeling...

My mind tells me not a chance, but my gut tells me otherwise.

[Solitaire]

11. I am hanging on to the small thread of hope I have

that Kerry will beat Bush in Ohio.

Then getting Bush out of office, I guess, will be the next challenge.

If that isn't the case, then if there is fraud, then good ol' Boy Bush will pay. I doubt this group would let him slide.

:)

[wlubin]

12. Voter fraud? Hell, it will be determined that Kerry actually got more

votes in ohio than bush, even with voter fraud. And when that happens, * will have to use the millitary to stay in the white house.

[mikelewis]

14. We fight the fights that need fighting

I saw this in a movie. It sort of applies here. This fight needs to be fought, here and now. We will not pass this on, until we have lost. If it is a question of public opinion, we must change public opinion. We must lead so others can follow. It is our responsibility as no others are more suited to this task. If we fail, no one gets hurt. If we succeed, the voice of the people has restored order, everyone wins. Not only that, the Democratic party will be stronger than ever. {Yeah, it spooks me too. It's like America without Russia} You know that the media and the parties involved are reading our information and responding to it. There have been rebuttals and support, though sporadic as the latter is, it does exist. Until this fight is concluded, we will never waiver in our pursuit of this goal. If we should lose this battle, we will be even more prepared for the next. One step at a time people. When you start feeling that we may lose, go crunch some numbers. Look at the requests for help and help. Don't question, just do until the battle is over. The battle isn't over until one side either quits or becomes incapacitated. We are niether. Quit worrying. Find courage in the canvass reports. Go mining for data. We need your help in this fight, to help us to the next one.

Sincerely,
Michael Lewis

[zann725]

31. My sentiments exactly!

Thanks, we needed that! :kick:

[cloudythescribbler]

38. Mike Lewis has the generally right idea -- & other factors outlined below

MIKE LEWIS's political instincts on this one point in the right direction. The key thing is all the issues that can make a HUGE difference even if we don't win. It is crucial to confront all the coverup interests in the maintream media, as well as a streak of journalistic cowardice that has appeared in the blogosphere! I am not talking about reasonable disagreements, but over a news BLACKOUT or simply journalistic misdirection. People should read Matt Bai's article in the NY Times Magazine of Nov 21 to see what I mean -- and check out the sources I cite in the posting below (about the fight being worthwhile even if assume election isn't reversed) to see the argument fleshed out. It's important to keep the particulars I outline there in mind, for THEY ARE OVER THE LONG RUN WHAT MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN PROGRESSIVE POLITICS -- between those who are devoted to authentic progressive principle even when it isn't fashionable, and those who are basically ambitious and interested in LOOKING progressive while they justify the lying. This may sound unpleasant, but it is the PLAIN truth, and truth is the oxygen of authentic progressive politics.

[KaryninMiami]

15. A Floridian who still has hope..

Not much mind you- but hope just the same. As for the MSM saying it's a "done deal" - THEY ARE PART OF THE SAME PROBLEM because MSM is owned by corporations made up of boards of directors that are mostly Republican. Do not buy their bull.

For now, WE ARE THE MEDIA. It's up to us to get the word out and make sure that everyone knows what really occurred on November 2nd. I just sent a newsletter called "Question the Election" out to about 300 people and I now have mini-flyers with me at all times, with links to important sites (such as this one)and BBV and assorted others, where people can read the facts and evidence for themselves. Just because the MSM does not want to carry the story yet- does not mean we should let up for a minute in DEMANDING an INVESTIGATION. Our democracy might have been hijacked A(again) but this time, we will not allow it to happen.

This is America damn it and we are entitled to know that the person who occupies the White House WON THE ELECTION. PERIOD. WE ARE THE MORAL MAJORITY! You have to believe that because it is true.

Let's do one objective at a time and right now we have lots to do before the December date, followed by the January dates.

End of story.
(Thanks for letting me vent.)

[Solitaire]

17. you go, KaryninMiami!!! I love it.

I have to find some flyers to hand out too. I tried on one of the sites that had flyers that were great, but they are not printing on one page for me. they get cut up. I have to try to fiddle...

but for now, goodnight all :)

[ClarkinMich]

24. Is your newsletter on a website?

What about the flyers?

I have been doing the same think... but sharing is also useful.

See my flyer at http://election2004.freehosting.net/Flyerver4a.pdf
, I will be updating the text soon...

[KaryninMiami]

50. My newsletter and the flyers

Perfectly-
My company website is about another part of my life (the spiritual and holistic side) and I'm not a web person so the newsletter is just a simple, non-fancy, outlook letter. I'd love to do a page about the election on the website to post links, but for now this will have to do. I've been gathering names everywhere I go, adding those to the people already in my list and every week or so, sending an update with links. Not sure who reads it but at this point- it's got to be one person at a time. I can email it to you if you want- send me your email address.

The flyers are also very clear, concise and simple. H half page in word, printed on colored paper- the top says "Question the Election- Our Democracy Depends on It" in big letters, followed by "Something went terribly wrong on November 2nd and we have the right to know."

Then 3 lines of text that starts with: Think everything went “perfectly” on Election Day? Think Again. (Text about the voting, Ohio recount, fraud, etc)

GET EDUCATED! FIND OUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON! KNOW YOUR RIGHTS

Then links to about 10 sites (including here and BBV).

That's it. I figure that's plenty for people to digest. If they want to know more then can look it up. Anyone who "feels" that something went wrong (and there are LOTS of them out there), hopefully will pick it up and read it. I'm leaving them everywhere these days!

[CantGetFooledAgain]

16. Figure out what happened and prove it. That's the strategy.

Dig, investigate, find the truth. Use it to reverse this election if possible, if not keep on going. Make it the huge scandal it is. Use it to discredit everyone who was involved. Use it to impeach. Use it to reform elections in this country.

Never forget that our entire system is predicated on free and fair elections. There is nothing more important. This is the issue.

[bunny planet]

19. Yes!!!!!!!

[KaryninMiami]

21. Free and Fair Elections-- EXACTLY what democracy is about.

Thank you for reminding us again and again- and we should keep reminding each other. DEMOCRACY is not a partisan issue- it's an American issue.

[Lisabtrucking]

25. Here is the 2003 cenus for all states

http://www.census.gov/popest/states/asrh/SC-EST2003-02.html

Who knows about numbers?

we should check the census age groups with the numbers that voted in all states. anyone up to it?

[cloudythescribbler]

37. NO -- effort worthwhile even if assume system won't reverse

I understand the notion that it may seem futile to pursue an effort when it seems to have next to zero chance of success. But let's think for a bit. When I first started in the divestment movement, what chance of success did there seem to be for corporate withdrawal bringing down apartheid in 1978? What chance was there to end the Vietnam War in 1965? What chance IS there to really bring an end by a peace movement in Iraq in 2004 or 2002? What chance does the movement against what I call McGlobalization (since we are just about all for globalization of some sort -- of ecology programs and laws, human rights standards and indeed, of a just economic order!)?
What chance do MOST things that progressives pursue have?

Some efforts are hopeless AND fruitless -- and these are also still pursued. But this, even if hopeless, and there is a slim chance it isn't -- if enough RETRIEVABLE votes can be found -- but THIS IS NOT. Let us examine the situation.

In 2000, in Florida, the fix was in. Bush was railroaded and the Democrats wouldn't even pursue, NOR DID ANYONE ELSE, the one KEY issue, a VOTING RIGHTS ACT CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF ALL DISENFRANCHISED BLACKS IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. This case would have been thrown out of court -- with MASSIVE appendices with affadavits from THOUSANDS of improperly disenfranchised black voters, if the energy were mustered to pursue that. Unfortunately -- and this was before not a single Senator would step forward on the last day -- NO CIVIL RIGHTS GROUPS WERE WILLING TO BUCK THE SYSTEM. I URGED that at the time on the radio. Look at what that failure meant -- even to pursue something hopeless. It should have been a constant rallying call, IN A CASE THAT DID NOT HAVE GORE AS A PARTY, SO HE COULDN'T SAY "I ACCEPT" the results. The results were never HIS to accept.

This time around we must not make the same blunder. We must pursue many avenues ONE OF WHICH MUST BE A CLASS ACTION SUIT ON BEHALF OF ALL VOTERS IN OHIO IN PRECINCTS THAT WERE DENIED ENOUGH VOTING MACHINES, AND LEFT THE LINES BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO LONG (people have to work etc.) THAT ISSUE SHOULD BE IN THE FACE OF THE MEDIA. It would also belie all the blather about how the Republicans won because they had broad appeal etc. We need to EXPOSE to the country that the election was stolen -- WHICH HAS HUGE POLITICAL BENEFITS, and expose the complicity of the mainstream media in covering it up, which is also ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL.

As for the latter, look at the Nov 21 Sunday NY Times Magazine article by Matt Bai. He writes about Ohio as if the freepress.org people like Fitrakis/Wasserman and Rosenfeld hadn't shown that it was the systematic denial of adequate numbers of voting machines that cost Kerry Ohio. Bai also put forward the lie in his Oct 10 article that Kerry was less willing to militarily confront terrorism than Bush, when in FACT Kerry had repeatedly advocated a massive INCREASE in the size of the special forces in order to INTENSIFY the struggle against Al Qaeda. But no one answered that lie from Bai, and it was repeated and magnified in a tsunami of three weeks of DAILY columns from the right (eg Dick Morris "Nuisance Nonsense" Oct 12 NY Post). This became the main theme of the last three weeks of the Republican campaign, superceding the substantively flimsy flipflop spin that the Democrats and the mainstream media ALSO systematically failed to expose. These failures to challenge the prevailing BS cost Kerry a clear landslide. And the failures weren't just his -- they were throughout the media and the astroturf roots and the 527s etc. A whole pack of hounds that didn't bark -- that's what we had, and what we have in the mainstream media on the election fraud issue. So therefore, progressives NEED TO START BARKING AND NEVER STOP! They keep toeing the line and justifying the lying as long as they can keep the image of being progressive. But that NEVER gets anywhere.
ONLY by challenging the prevailing lying, eg -- read Bai's article at NY Times.com and write an angry response to [e-mail] and get all your friends (after reading the freepress stuff, some of it at truthout) to do so. THAT is how progressives can confront a rigged system. It isn't a matter of SHOULD we fight, whether we can win this month or not. WE MUST fight. And the failure to fight the prevailing spins DURING the campaign was fatal. And you need to look at the ambitious supposedly progressive blogs who are downplaying the stealing of the election -- after focusing oodles of attention on stuff like the Sinclair flap. Eschaton, Talking Points Memo, and spinsanity have all been virtually silent on this issue. And MichaelMoore.com and Media Matters haven't been much better -- they put more emphasis on the usual things about FOX insulting Clinton's library or some rot. You need to use issues, like the Yugoslavia war, where many progressives got weak knees (I don't know if you agree on this, and won't argue it here) in order to discipline those progressives who are like the worshippers of the Golden Calf -- always looking for a way to sell out and advance themselves. Which is what they find -- and the planet ends up in ruins.

We must not merely piss in the wind -- we need to confront the supposed liberals and progressives who are participating in burying this FACT STORY of enormous political significance, and wave the bloody shirts not only in the faces of the Republicans, but among Democrats, those who were insistent on keeping a lid on the NEWS story, and devoted themselves like Matt Bai to justifying the lying instead. (Note how at the NY Times, they haven't had a SINGLE news item in the last FOUR days as HUGE news stories have broken -- with the voting machine shortage in Ohio being shown to have been decisive, all they offer is misdirection from Bai; they didn't cover the UC Berkeley study of e-voting in Florida, despite their protestations of concern about evoting throughout the campaign. What good is an obedient media? It's like a watchdog that has been drugged to sleep. All they have done instead is to round up the usual suspects of election reform. YES -- IN THIS SITUATION, REVERSAL SEEMS MOST UNLIKELY, BUT PURSUIT OF THE ISSUE IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL FOR ANY TRUE PROGRESSIVE.

[angrydemocrat]

42. The Fight Is Alive And Well!!!!!!

Hell I knew all these people had fighting power left in them! Now it's starting to show. This is great! Because this is what it is going to take to bring Bush and the repukes to their knee's. Watch out Bushco you have the fighting power of DU on your A$$ now!! :spank:

[tbuddha]

43. AAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!

SHUT UP! GOD JUST SHUT UP! I'm SO SICK OF PESSIMISM WITHIN OUR OWN RANKS IT MAKES ME WANT TO STRANGLE PEOPLE. IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF, WE DON'T NEED YOUR WEAK TALK. THE ELECTION ISSUE IS GETTING BIGGER EVERYDAY AND IF YOU HAVE DOUBTS, KEEP THEM THE FoK TO YOUSELF!!!!

[angrydemocrat]

44. LOL!!!!!!!

I know how you feel! Its like the old saying goes with friends like these who needs enemies, well in this situation the correct term would be with voters like these who needs repukes! :puke:

I SAY KERRY ON!!!!!!!!!

[Cronus Protagonist]

46. I think your message would get across better if you didn't shout

It's so much harder to read block caps.



http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Cronus Protagonist]

45. One thing you can take from Republicans - NEVER, GIVE UP

Every little counts, and never, ever give up. Never.

Your forefathers are counting on you.



http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Onlooker]

49. There's 0 chance of Kerry winning, but ...

... this issue is a great issue with which to raise the honesty issue about the government. If evidence of fraud is found and the evidence is fairly completely, I think the truth issue will sink the Repugs in two years. It's also the kind of issue that will help us to focus our fight.

[dmac]

52. Okay, so whether we win or lose . . .

I, for one, am ready and willing to fight. I am going to Ohio (they are still looking for people to come - I was told they only have about 600 of 2000 needed).

I am prepared to be called an enemy of democracy and any other little nasties that will be thrown my way. I will do whatever is needed to help us at least TRY to win. Not trying has been done before. Let's go the other route this time.

Also we all need to realize that we are bucking the system at a time that will be most inconvenient to our government - who is out, trying to "spread democracy, far and wide". By making enough noise maybe people will begin to see the connection to PNAC - going into Iraq and Afghanistan and creating "democracy" and giving them voting rights, which will mean as little as ours do - just another way for them to manipulate who is in charge, not only of the US but everywhere eventually.

This battle is not a choice. It is essential, not only for the US but for all.

[dmac]

51. "urinating into the prevailing adjection"???

Is this the same thing as "pissing into the wind"?

Very original.

[bitchkitty]

53. Sigh...you would think we would learn.

I feel bitter, angry and disgusted much of the time. But no matter how pessimistic I've become, I can't stop hoping. It's the only thing that keeps me going, without it I'd be dead.

[SueZhope]

55. Some people think all elections are stolen

An in-law of mine was a hidden child during the holocaust.
He is a very liberal guy who reads a lot of history . When I asked him if he was following the stolen election on-line he said No . I told him the details . He said there all stolen. That’s just the way it is , its been like this for years. Do you think there are any honest elections? He said give it 4 years people will be tired of the Republicans(the cycles ) I explained to him if we don’t change the system now they will always be stolen . He said , the demarcates will figure a new way to steal it next time......Talk about depressing.....

I said we must fight for change or just roll over....I realize his life and views will always be different after surviving a time that is unthinkable to me. I just cant get why people just except stolen elections as a part of life and think we should just get over. Then other people think there's no way they would cheat like that...... (until they see it on there TV) those folks think that the TV news is reality. Its all backwards. I'm holding on to that one day I turn on the TV and see Bev Harris........if theres something big enough they will have to report it. We must keep seeking truth , what else is there to do?

Sometimes the things that seems so impossible become reality......we need to keep going no matter the outcome.

[jdog]

56. THANK YOU FOR THE PIX!

Makes me sad and mad too