When did you believe something was wrong?

[smartvoter]

I became uncomfortable when I was watching MSNBC on Nov. 2nd and Norah O'Donnell said that the White House was saying that some of the exit polls were "downright screwy." It didn't sit well with me because it was before they could (or should) have known the real counts.

Later on, the photo op of Bush sitting confidently on the couch bothered me as well.

And the next day, as Kerry conceded, I saw articles quoting Rove's explanation for why the exit polls were wrong.

The entire process bothered me ("Thou doeth protest too much.")

But it wasn't until the weekend following the election that I became certain that something had happened, when the stories of Ohio and Florida started to come in and I could see impossible results (more votes than voters on official election sites) with my own eyes.

Anyone else follow a similar pattern???

[New Earth]

1. yup

that was the same time i started thinking something was not right. i was watching MSNBC on election night and thought it was wierd when she came on and said Karl Rove (however you spell his name) thought something was wrong with the exit polls, that they were getting different numbers and that Bush was in the lead. This was less than an hour after the same news reporter had said something about how Bush & his campaign were preparing to face losing. Actually, ffrom the start i knew election night was going to end up fishy - i was so stressed out that night i had to drink and just pass out (sounds lame, i know) but i had a feeling of where it was going and i just coudn't watch the rest.

i don't remember where it was that i first heard about the election irregularites and fruad....but i think someone gave out the link to BBV and i started from there.

But yeah i guess my suspicions started at exactly the same time as yours.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Watching the electoral map on C SPAN's web site

When the first polls closed in Florida, they put up the map and gave 3 states to Bush and VT to Kerry. That gave Bush 18 (?) electoral votes and Kerry 3. For the next hour they made no other changes.

Throughout the rest of the night, they called states for Bush, some without any votes tabulated, while they refused to call states for Kerry, especially PA, which was obviously going to Kerry from very early on.

They did everything they could to make it look like Bush was win throughout the night. Has the night went on, I just felt worse and worse that once again these bastards had managed to pull it off and steal another election and the MSM's role in these crimes was blatant.

[BlueDog2u]

10. I noticed this pattern also

"Throughout the rest of the night, they called states for Bush, some without any votes tabulated, while they refused to call states for Kerry, especially PA, which was obviously going to Kerry from very early on."


And they refused to call NH until God knows when...I wonder why?

[smartvoter]

17. Wasn't there a story about Rove calling the networks to call the race?

Was there any truth to this? I remember reading about it on some blogs but never read a story on it.

[BlueDog2u]

24. This is an interesting rumor

I hadn't heard, but it is interesting. Does anyone have a source for it?

[New Earth]

26. no source

except that i remember the reporter on MSNBC talking about it.

[stirringstill]

38. The symphony of election night 2004

Watching the body language of Carville and Begala. Carville in particular. Then overt perception management began--oh look there's the confident BUSH family. The states were being called in a strange manner, almost orchestrated. Why aren't they calling NH? Then Blitzer began looking rabid and speaking of the failures of Kerry. Aaron Brown disappeared and Judy Woodruff would second Blitzer and then there was the confusion at the myterious 10,000 NM votes coming out the AP ticker was a re-run of FLA numbers. Resistance if futile.

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. When I first turned on the TV

the evening of November 2 and saw the complete imbalance in electoral votes right away...

After being in the trenches for as long as I was and hearing ALL the negative crap about Chimpy from EVERYONE, even Republicans, I knew we should have been taking it in a landslide. Everywhere. I had a feeling we'd been fucked.

FSC

[keepthemhonest]

3. my reaction was not immediate

it was a few days later. when I had my hands on the exit polls and the actual voteds. I knew that numbers don't randomly shift in one persons favor

my 23 year old brother said he knew when he saw Bush that night like you. he got a really sick feeling about it.

I have a large family and just in my fAMILY ALL VOTED FOR KERRY(except one sister) and most of us are upset about it, although most don't think anything will happen to bush even if they prove it

[ET Awful]

4. I REALLY knew something was screwy when Bush called in the press corp

That had never been done before, and I had a VERY bad feeling when he did it.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

67. So quick to use the word "mandate"

...and while we were still waiting for results to come in, he was (or somebody was) jubilantly declaring he had won the popular vote by a large and clear margin. It just seemed they were WAY ahead of me (and everyone else). I was still in the "HUH?!?" stage, regarding the exit polls prediction vs the "end" results...They had already moved beyond it to a "mandate" and a clear victory within a matter of a few hours. That really struck me as odd

Of course I was afraid of another stolen election in the first place, ever since I learned about Diebold et al, a couple years ago.

[RagingInMiami]

6. I knew something

was wrong as soon as the AP gave Florida to Bush and it wasn't even midnight yet.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

68. Yeah, that sudden Florida announcement was stunning

and by such a large margin, too, when pre-election and exit polls showed it was neck-in-neck there.

[GreenArrow]

7. Bush on the couch

definitely.

[BlueDog2u]

25. Jenna's Green shoes

:evilgrin:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

69. Which didn't match her outfit...

Green for "GO!" or green for money, or both

[Slit Skirt]

8. after listening to Bev Harris on the Alex JOnes show

about a year ago....in my heart I wanted it to be different but, I knew bush had too much power............do you remember how many times bush said

"I have no intention of losing the election"....I knew it was coming then..

of course I didn't get to experience the early euphoria that Kerry might win...I was locked up in a room as voting judge all day and all night...but STILL when I found out ...I was disappointed, upset...sick

[tinfoil_beret]

9. Spring 1999

I smelled elephant dung when I first heard that G.W. Bush planned to announce his candidacy in 1999.

Oh! You meant during this election. I would have to say the last week of October, when polls still showed a close race. Something stunk.

As I watched the local news on Tuesday, it bothered me that it took so long for certain states to report. It didn't feel right when numbers started coming in contrary to earlier reported exit polls. I knew by 11:30pm that they stole the election and started looking for evidence.

[smartvoter]

11. Hysterical Name

Great moniker you have there....!!!

[tinfoil_beret]

16. Thanks

I wear it with pride.

[newyawker99]

40. Hi tinfoil_beret!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pacalo]

12. I had heard from several poll volunteers, one of them had done

videography work for Michael Moore in So. Fla., & we were all pumped about the enthusiasm shown at the polls; we had even popped the champagne cork around 7:30-8pm. Then we started hearing reports of CNN changing numbers, MSNBC talking about the poll numbers being wrong, then hearing about states that were projected for Kerry going to Bushitler. It was especially fishy when Bushitler was anxious for Kerry to concede. It was a NO-BRAINER that this election stunk to high heaven.

[MoonRiver]

13. December 12, 2000.

I've tried to believe that we could prevail, but the fix has been in for a long, long time. Now we just have to endure the free fall of our democracy, prosperity, and peace. :cry:

[sce56]

14. When I first read this book last year and tried like hell to support

A bill by Congressmen Holt to fix the problem! That MoveOn would not bother doing anything about until now!!!!!!!

[smartvoter]

15. I was naive -- thought they'd give receipts.

I heard about all these concerns over a year ago and thought it was such a no-brainer to implement the receipt system to combat fraud that there was no way it would not be done. Wish I'd become more vocal before hand.

[KittyWampus]

59. The Word Is BALLOTS Not Receipts! :-)

receipts are legally meaningless pieces of paper.

[UNIXcock]

18. When 5,000,000 too few democrats failed to show up to vote

... sorry folks, I just do not swallow any of these wild-assed conspiracy theories. We simply had fewer votes than the other guy.

... we can bitch and complain until were blue in that face and all it will do is alienate new voters into thinking their vote won't matter and stay home in 2008.

... now take some responsibility and join your local or State Democrat party and look at constructive plans we're making for future races, if in AZ contact me. I'll help.

[Starlight]

19. No one is trying to convince you.

And your smug know-it-all stance on this topic is really not appreciated here. If you aren't interested in this topic, I'm sure you can find another one in another forum that does interest you.

[New Earth]

21. have fun

rolling over to die

[UNIXcock]

23. No ma'am, I'm directing my anger over the matter toward things productive

... it's you people that refuse to give up on beating dead horses that are hurting our Party. You might consider growing up.

[Cheswick2.0]

27. that is your opinion

what have you got against finding out? Please don't tell me how concerned you are about "our" image as a party.
What the hell kind of image does a party have which thinks vote fraud is okay? Let's leave the killing of democracy to the republicans.

[masshole1979]

33. "You might consider growing up."

Now that's grown-up language!

[masshole1979]

34. I had issues when I heard that long lines at the polls...

...meant not only massive turnout, but massive voter obstruction.

[bunny planet]

48. Mandate my ass, sir!!!!!!!!1

[keepthemhonest]

22. you obviously are not good in math n/t

[smartvoter]

28. And overwhelming evidence doesn't matter?

No matter how you slice it, something is wrong here. Two universities have come forward and shown that Bush basically won the lottery in terms of statistical probability, on two fronts -- deviation by technology and deviation from exit polls. You can see mathematically impossible results -- more votes than voters -- with your own eyes.

None of this matters or is relevant. Is that your position?

[UNIXcock]

32. ... Hummm, wonder why the DNC officially doesn't share your tin-foil hat

... theories? The AZ office sure won't state there were fraudulent activities. You're in a minority of democrats that believe the election was stolen - sorry, but true.

... We need to work harder to make connections with ambivalent and young voters - period.

[keepthemhonest]

35. again you don't understand math

and the people who don't get it yet are not quick in math either

[smartvoter]

37. This is true.

If the math isn't there, it isn't there. Wouldn't matter if it was in our favor. It needs to be addressed.

[smartvoter]

36. Doesn't matter.

I don't care if I'm in the minority. What I care about is that I can see problems that should not be ignored. Call me a foil head -- your opinion doesn't bother me.

But your call to follow you to unity is somewhat ironic.

[IAMREALITY]

55. Maybe SO

Maybe we are in the minority, but the honorable,just, and patriotic minority. And EVERY single one of us here are DAMN proud to be in the minority, rather than in the brainwashed majority that more resemble retarded monkeys then Americans.

[Oak2004]

61. I don't think we're in any minority at all.

The world hates Bush, Americans hate Bush, even ordinary Americans, without access to the information we have, know in their hearts that the election was rigged. And, while the Democratic Party so-called leadership seems to be hell-bent on ignoring the fraud, the rank and file is seething and, in many cases, acting.

Where, exactly, are we a minority?

Even a majority of Bush voters don't support Bush. They voted Bush because they believed that facts were not as they really are and that Bush stood for things he did not. They are on our side. They just don't know it yet.

We're the majority, and we will prevail.

We have people and truth. They have a small cowardly clique and a whole lot of lies. I'd rather be us than them.

Mark my words: the Bush regime will either

a) never take office for its second term

b) or will leave midway as a result of disgrace, impeachment, or rebellion

c) or will be rendered impotent by significant changes in America and the world (which might be some combination of resistance on a state level that has the effect of creating a powerful national shadow government, actual secession, international intervention, or even something none of us can yet imagine).

All they can do is try to discourage us, deceive us, and dismiss us. All we need to do is to persist.

Carry on, majority juggernaut!

[IAMREALITY]

66. Here's a TIp

Hey, got a tip for ya, why don't you take posts in context before you start preaching at a wall... My post was in response to post #32 (as can clearly be seen). When it comes to believing in the Fraud theory, we are most definitely in the minority right now, though God willing will not be for long. Next time it would serve you well to take the posts in context.

:eyes:

[reality_bites]

50. There are plenty of reasons to doubt the results, but

"more votes than voters" was satisfactorily explained a week ago. This still shows up everywhere and it isn't true.

[smartvoter]

60. Explain, then.

I never saw it explained in a way that was definitive. How was it dismissed.

[bobbyboucher]

41. Who is "we"?

Speak for yourself.

Thanks in advance.

[angrydemocrat]

49. We Are Not Trying To Convince You

...First off you have a right to believe what you want just the same as the rest of have our rights. As far as this crap about all it will do is "do alienate new voters" well so be it. If they can't respect other people's rights to their beliefs then all I got to say is with voters like these who needs repukes. That's what's wrong now you got to many people in this country that think they shouldn't have to respect the rights of others and they want to try to rule how Americans think, what Americans can do, and when they can do it. There is nothing wrong with disagreements everyone disagree's at some point and time. But to think that people have to change their beleifs to suit others for any reason wether it be votes or whatever is total garbage.

[IAMREALITY]

54. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Hey, Thanks for the Comic Relief!!!!

[Dark Secret]

20. I Knew there was fraud when the Cuyahoga Totals Came In. n/t

[BlueDog2u]

29. What was it specifically about those totals that clued you?

UNIXcock wants to know.

:silly:

[GingerSnaps]

30. I checked DU out on the computer in our College library at 5:15

I was so happy that the election was being called for Kerry and with past elections when it's 6:00 eastern time whom ever is ahead wins the election. I got out of class at 10:00 and I heard that Bush has won from a couple of girls that were very upset.

It took me a long time to get home because I was in shock and I couldn't believe what had went off. I knew at that moment the elections was stolen. :cry: :grr: :argh:

[Longgrain]

31. I had a weird premonition

about a week before the election. I was in a bar with a friend of mine who also likes talking politics, we were discussing the debates, and she had admitted that she was impressed with Kerry's campaign so far (she's a Green so it was probably a big thing for her to admit).
But then she just looked at me and said "But you know they're going to steal it." Real cold and straight foreward like.

I just told her that I thought if everyone who wants to votes votes, and the votes were counted properly, I felt Kerry would win, but deep inside I knew she was right. :scared:

[mdb]

39. I was watching CNN and was online with CNN Election results Nov 2nd.

I knew something was wrong after they were talking a Kerry victory in Ohio and things went the other way. I went on some of the discussion that was going on.

Robert Novak in a round table discussion was giving Ohio to Kerry when results were coming in. No one disagreed but thought he was right. The polls staying open late, long lines, exit polls all were favoring Kerry for the Ohio win and the Presidency.

Novak is not one to jump like this to Kerry's side but the results looked evident for a Kerry win.

Part of this reasoning came in the discussion of how fast a state would be closing or how late they would be closing as being a good indication of how either Bush or Kerry were doing.

So they all had their eyes on the first states coming in. One in which Bush was favored was VA. They were commenting on If the results came in fast the turnout would be low for Bush.

Well VA came in fast. They didn't stay open long and lines were not too long so the turnout was not so great.

On the other hand they said if Ohio comes in slow it would be favoring Kerry and a bad sign for Bush. Well we all know how late Ohio had to stay open.

Then the next day there was talk of CNN changing the exit polls.

[Clinton Crusader]

42. That night. David Gregory/NBC outside WH

First Karen Hughes tell dimson he lost, then they're 'discouraged' and 'unhappy' in 'there', then Rove 'furiously working the phones', then CNN changing all their exit polls, as Larry King JUST said 'exit polls were wrong'. Somewhere in this timeframe, I knew, I just knew....

[Technowitch]

43. Shortly after the early returns started coming in...

...and were so far at odds with the exit polling in ALL of the so-called battleground states.

That was when I knew we were well and thoroughly screwed. Without even the courtesy of a reacharound.

[ZRB]

44. As soon as the popular vote started coming in...

Bush led right from the beginning and never came close to trailing. I knew something was wrong then.

I was hopefull about Ohio, as Kerry was leading there for about an hour. At the same time, he was way down in Wisconsin and Michigan. Then Bush suddenly gained about 300,000 votes in Ohio, and led by about 150,000 for the rest of the night.

Early in the day, when I heard about the election machines registering "Bush" when people pressed "Kerry," my gut told me it was going to be a long night.


I've never doubted that this election was rigged. November 2nd was Kerry's night, and it was stolen from him, and us.

[BernieBear]

45. Before the elections

I have always thought this election would be taken by B*s* one way or the other.

I dared to hope, especially when I saw how many Repug types were out n force voting for Kerry here in the Red state of Georgia but once I saw that Kerry wasn't making announcements during the voting, but Rove was AND the video showed, I knew the scumbags were bagging the election one way or the other.

So even months ago, I felt a lack of hope

[mirandapriestly]

46. The day of the "election" one of the news sources on line

I don't remember which , had a photo of Kerry and Theresa looking defeated, exhausted, and sad and an official, presidential photo of Bush and the stepford wife. I knew that it was there to prepare us us for what was going to happen and that is when things were going well for Kerry in the polls.

[Starlight]

52. Same here. I hoped for the best but I expected the worst.

Of course, Bev Harris & Randi Rhodes have been talking about this for years so it wasn't exactly a surprise, but I hoped & prayed that there would be a miracle & the huge voter turnout & poll monitors would somehow overcome all the fraud & disenfranchisement & bribes that I knew would occur. But honesty didn't have a chance. :cry:

I'm actually feeling pretty good about what's happening now, though. In my pre-election funk, I was worried that the stolen election would be ignored, again, and there would be no chance of EVER having a real election. Ever. Now I can at least see a glimmer of hope with all my friends here working so hard to bring back democracy. :loveya:

[Eloriel]

47. Right after the election in November 2000

Only confirmed by all the research, analysis, numerous other developments explicated right here at DU. This current fiasco fully and completely expected. I knew Kerry would actually "win" but that he wouldn't take office.

I live in GA and having worked as a tech writer, around computer apps being built, for about a decade, had my deep concerns about GA's fancy new machines before they were even installed. The results from the election (see Diebold Magic http://www.bartcop.com/111102fraud.htm ) convinced me we had a serious, serious problem.

[bunny planet]

51. I was listening to Malloy the night before the election,

and a lawyer called up and said that he was very sad, is spite of all the good news about Kerry very possibly becoming the winner. He said he was sad because he knew the Bush people were going to steal the election. This lawyer thought that Rove would use the OBL tape as a cover, saying afterwards that people just couldn't bring themselves to vote for Kerry when Osama's appearance reminded them how much stronger Bush was on national security. This doesn't actually end up to be Rove's cover story, he went with the red state values issue instead as we all know too well by now. That was the talking points cover story for the miraculous turn of the election towards Bush in spite of pre and especially post election polls.

I had a sinking feeling when I heard this guy speak, and so did Malloy. He listened to him very seriously and seemed really down afterwards. This is when I knew, I could hardly sleep that night because I was so agitated.

Then election night with friends, watching John Stewart's coverage instead of MSM news it was still a surreal, palpable feeling that they had done it again. Everyone was in shock at my house, we knew, and we had champagne on ice, that we would never get to open it that night. They stole it again. Such a devastating feeling. We were stood there, a few of us with angry tears, others shaking their heads.

On a positive note, all of us have been very active since November 3rd in supporting the efforts to find out exactly what happened. We are helping to fight this from ever happening again and we won't stop.

If growing up, Mr.Unixcock (upthread) means letting the right-wing say 'Bend over, we're driving,', well then..... we refuse to grow up.

[stillcool]

53. Around 10pm

and it was for me also, the early calling of some states with like 2% of the vote in, and NH & PA holding out till the bitter end. It was a farce and a con job the media pulled that night, in the selection of commentators they had as well. I switched back and forth that night,in disbelief. Up till like three in the morning

I refuse to buy into the holy right wing crap, and God help me, that people can be that stupid. This wasn't a little skimming off the top, this was massive fraud. The thing that most worries me is that if this is not proven, who will bother to vote? If the votes were counted Kerry would win, and if not...here we are. Saw the Kerry girls on CNN, Cam Kerry on PBS, and can't help but feel...loss

[On Par]

56. As We Left Our Democratic HQ...

...in Pennsylvania, we were up by 16%. Our exit polls were from reliable inside sources. In fact, Kerry was leading, albeit, by a slim margin in some states, but in all 10 battleground states. While we thought some states might flip, we were locked in with Ohio. I mean, if you wanted to bet the house, this was a sure thing. It had been a 4-5% Kerry lead for 3 solid weeks prior to the election. The exit polls on election day showed nothing different. Our exit polls said a solid 4% lead at 8PM.

About 10PM EST, it hit me that something was terribly wrong. Along with the reporting and Rove's rant of "exit polls" being skewed, the view of *'s sounding confident in the White House setting was the first flag. Joe Lockhart coming out saying Warren County was under reporting was the next bad sign. The Dem's were trying to bolster a sagging ship. And when I saw Karen Hughes, I knew it was curtains.

Just recalling it makes me as numb as I was that night. Do I believe it yet? No.

Four pages of photos, mostly mine, from the months preceeding the election. I think I got two from this site.
http://www.icubed.com/~trz/index_kerry.html

OP...who enjoyed the ride, but not the final stop.

[patomime]

57. something was amiss.....

That night. When they kept delaying Ohio returns - and then, finally around 1 a.m. when different news organizations started calling Ohio - and I had just viewed clips of voters still voting at the polls. My gut started to ache ---- and I just knew - something was very wrong. Then the next morning when some networks called Ohio for Bush and some didn't - and the White House reporters were saying that The White House would allow Kerry some time to absorb the results, as if they were pushing him.

Yeah, the whole thing is amiss ----- something is still very wrong. My country is at stake, and I'm not going to let them take it without a fight on the vote. So there!!!!! That deserves a good kick :kick: :kick:

[Patsy Stone]

58. When Ohio and Florida took so damned long!

Also, as someone else said: Jenna's green pumps. In fact, they were green like Ohio was when I woke up at 6 a.m. Coincidence???? :)

[Zorra]

62. First after the Presidential election 2000, then the Georgia election 2002

I knew damn well they were going to fix this one too.

[Sodium Pentothal]

63. About 8 pm EST it was hitting my gut

The hour or so before that I was sooo excited, I knew they were going to call PA and OH for Kerry, he was waay up in the exit polls. I was clicking refresh every 30 seconds, constantly scouring for more positive evidence that I would be able to sleep well at night.

Well, the votes weren't matching the exit polls. The never started to swing. They stayed at teh same % the entire time. Everything after that was a bad movie seen in a dream. The cover up, the broad daylight coup and how the media played into it hook line and sinker.

[malatesta1137]

64. I knew there was something wrong on Dec 12, 2000

when the Supreme Court awarded the presidency to the man who lost the election. From that point on, I knew Bush would never leave power and right-wing forces had hijacked our country for a long, long time, maybe forever.

Kerry was a great diversion. He knew he was never going to win and the votes were never going to be counted.

Dec 12, 2000 was the beginning of the end of the American Empire, Bush has started the Fall, just like Rome, Greece and Britain before it.

[Banazir]

65. When I heard people I knew...

...saying that in their precincts, voters were being told that election day was November fourth, harassed at the polls in swing states for being disabled or ethnic minorities, and other lovely stuff like that.

Then when I saw the way different news networks were calling things, the rapid concessions (and the ways Kerry and Edwards acted during those)... by the time I fell asleep the morning of the third, the inklings that something was seriously wrong here had added up to spell trouble.

[tngledwebb]

70. About a year after 9/11,

when I began to look into that internet based CT.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

71. Election night

I turned to my family and said "so how come the exit polls were right everywhere except where they were voting electronically? Something is wrong." I knew immediately.