Where is the outrage? Kerry didn't win the popular vote

[WI_DEM]

The big difference as to why there isn't a greater outrage over problems in Ohio and Florida is that Kerry didn't win the popular vote the way Gore did. This is why the mainstream press doesn't make a bigger deal out of voter irregularities. This is why more Democrats are not up in arms and out in the streets. For many it is a non-issue because it isn't an issue at all. When Kerry conceded (even if he is working behind the scenes) many democrats accepted the election as a closed book. Not every person is politically with it like we on DU are. They took their signal from Kerry.

Now if the national popular vote had gone to Kerry or been very close (I mean it was close but Bush's 3.5 million vote majority makes it seem bigger than it actually is)this might be getting more air play.

This is my feeling as to why there is no outrage over Bushco stealing the election in Ohio--Kerry not actually winning the popular vote and conceding before all the ballots were counted.

[TangledThorns]

1. Good Point

That makes sense but other Presidents besides Bush have lost the popular vote, I think there were 4. I wonder what the other margins were?

[WI_DEM]

6. the others were in the 19th century

so in some ways it isn't as relevant as 2000 was.

[ROakes1019]

2. outrage

But if the election machines were rigged, and much evidence indicates it was, then Bush probably didn't win the popular vote, either. After all, doesn't the popular vote come from the same place as the state votes?

[never_get_over_it]

12. Of course the popular vote was rigged too

Look at the exit polls in states Kerry did win and even some he didn't and you can see a big difference in the exit polls and the actual vote which helped Bush look like he had a popular vote win. PA comes to mind and even NC. Kerry didn't win PA as big as the exit polls would suggest and he lost NC bigger than the exit polls suggested - thus helping the popular vote total.

[keepthemhonest]

3. the democrats i talk to think fraud is an issueand the issue

but they just don't think we can do anything about it anybody can steel the popular vote, by the way why didn't we do that

[jsascj]

4. The Outrage is that

no one KNOWS how many votes were cast for Kerry.

Bush made sure of that

[peabody71]

5. Assuming that Kerry didn't actually win the popular vote.

Fraud is Fraud is Fraud!
1/3 of all votes in the U.S where on electronic voting systems.
I personally don't believe Bush won the popular vote.
Remember they said the youth didn't vote?
They used our numbers against us.
The preelection polling didn't include huge numbers of young folks that use cell phones. Kept it close then stole it outright!

[WI_DEM]

8. well youth did vote.

Turnout among voters under 30 was up 9% but the reason that it seems that it was the same percentage as 2000 was because turnout among every age group increased dramatically.

[hippiegranny]

10. exactly

only in the Republican parallel universe did Bush win the popular vote. If fraud is proven, what does that say about his so-called poular vote mandate?

[ahyums]

7. I think that's partly why the pressure needs to kept up on all fronts

Florida should be contested but time may rapidly be running out there, anywhere where there are anomalies they need to be looked into, because the pr battle may well be vital in achieving anything here and it will be all the harder to do even if some success is reached in Ohio if Bush continues to be thought of as 3 million or more votes ahead nationally. You are absolutely right though, Bush's seemingly clear popular vote victory has definitely dampened any enthusiasm in working with this. Frankly if he had won by that margin he really should be winning in the EV anyway according to most models but I have my doubts.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

9. We don't know if Kerry didn't win the popular vote.

The issue at hand is possible fraud across the board, and most likely in all states using optical scan and touchscreen voting. Zogby had Kerry with 311 electoral votes, and a majority of the popular. Why do you think Nader has a recount going in New Hampshire?

There was also wholesale disenfranchisement in Ohio and Florida. Insufficient voting machines in low income, high population areas.
In Florida people were not notified as to where they were supposed to vote, waiting on line in the blistering heat for hours, only to be told once they got into the polling place that they went to the wrong one.

I am in NY and use an old fashioned lever machine, and I am confident that my vote counted, but it really didn't. As long as one other citizen has a problem voting, I do too. This is America and not Amerika just yet.

This is where the outrage is.

[hippiegranny]

11. I just found out in the AZ forum

that they didn't count the mail in ballots until way after the election. I know for a fact that mail-in voting was a big push from Democratic GOTV on AZ. AZ may have been much closer than you would think from the mass media reports on election night. This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[OneBlueSky]

13. the early exit polls had Kerry winning the popular vote . . .

though I don't recall the numbers . . . given that BushCo and their minions control the entire vote counting process, what makes you think that they didn't simply alter the results to suit their purposes? . . . after all, there's no way to prove it, given that the code is proprietary and not subject to inspection by outside parties . . .

[Carni]

14. Most definitely and they planned it that way

I also think the untapped story in 2000 was Tennesee

[Tace]

15. I Think Both Moore And Kerry Know Exactly What Happened Re Fraud

They don't want to be leaders of a violent revolution. This issue is a firecracker.

You'll notice that any posts inciting violence are immediately removed from this board.

I'm a pacifist, by the way, so I'm not trying to incite violence. But, this thing could get very ugly, very fast.

[ahyums]

16. not that I believe that but frankly and I am widely speculating here in

the event that it was proved that the right had committed massive fraud, and were determined to hold onto the reigns of power for the foreseeable future, because it was the "best thing for America" and "the only way to secure freedom" or something would a violent response be so out of the question. Although it has to be said if that happened I would buy a hat and eat it.

[Tace]

17. I Dunno, A Rebellion Would Probably Break Along Racial Lines At First

Jesse Jackson said today, that the election was "fair and square."

Now we know he knows better than that. I believe he just doesn't want to see violence break out, or to be seen as responsible for it.

Does it help to lie about things? Probably not. But, people are remaining calm so far. An eruption of election-related violence would be tragic.